General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy friend picked up his new Chevy Volt today.
I am a big Volt fan and have been following them since they were just a concept vehicle. I go to the Detroit Auto Show (almost) every year and have seen them there but I must admit I was still caught by surprise.
It maybe the fact that at the Auto Show you look at dozens of vehicles in a few hours and they all tend to blend into one another, but this car really stood out for me today. For one thing I have never heard one run before. They tend to just be sitting on the showroom floor at the show so you can sit in it and look under the hood. I almost didn't hear it run today just because it is so freaking quiet. Even with the generator running to recharge the battery it is virtually silent.
I have not ridden in it, or driven it, as of yet but I expect to within the next week or so. He offered to let me take it for a drive today but I was in the middle of something and really didn't have the time to relax and enjoy it. He tells me that it is faster/quicker than he expected it to be. I understand that electric motors create more torque than an internal combustion engine so I am guessing that is why the performance seems to be so good. He had only driven it about 33 miles and the battery was nearly dead when he picked it up (I guess it came from a different dealership) but the dash says he was getting over 84 MPG. So at that rate he would need to go 42 miles before he burned his first half gallon of gasoline.
I'll see it again tomorrow and maybe even drive it then, if we both have time. I can't wait to see what the real world mileage is for this car. The battery will also be fully charged by tomorrow so I will get to hear (or not hear) it in fully electric mode too.
How was your day?
Mz Pip
(27,453 posts)I'm in the market for a new car. Most of my driving is around town so this looks pretty good to me. I do go on some long trips a few times a year so would be very interested to learn what kind of gas mileage it gets when it's out of battery power.
wandy
(3,539 posts)GM = bailout
Bailout = Obama
Obama = Socialism (at least if you're not wall street)
Socialism = Bad
their by
Bad = Obama
Chevy Volt = GM
GM = bailout
their by
Chevy Volt = Socialism
Socialism = bad
0bama = Bad
their by
Chevy Volt = Bad
Don't ask me. That's how they appear to think.
Papagoose
(428 posts)I drive a Prius and take a daily dose of hate from the rednecks I am surrounded by. The rage that has been shown over the Volt is much worse though...it seems to embody everything that the right hates.
wandy
(3,539 posts)Now go tell that to Telsa Motors....
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster
0 to 60 in 3.7.
Nice battery powered toy.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I saw one at the auto show.
The way they designed it is amazing. The batteries all fit under the passenger compartment. Think of a short stack of playing cards (ten or so) and then scale it up to fit between the axles of the car. The batteries fit there and you can get up to 300 miles in a charge.
It makes so much more sense than using big "brick" shapes for batteries. Even The Volt is only sits 4 because part of the battery is between the passengers in the rear seats.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)You don't exactly have to be Freud to wonder about their chants of "Drill, baby, drill!" and their terror of having their emissions reduced.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)This is just painful.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I have seen them close up and personal but not driven or ridden in one. They are practically silent! And sharp! W00T!
I envy your friend! I am going to get a Volt but not for a couple//few years. Got about a year to go paying off my current car and will go at least a year without car payments. I'm hoping things will have developed a bit more by then and they'll be a bit less expensive~as things always do.
I am very happy for and envious of your friend though! Enjoy your drive!
Julie--coveting from faraway Traverse City
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)First, it's a great engineering achievement. More lines of code are in that computer than in a fighter jet. It's phenomenal. The universal garage door opener probably took a massive effort to conform to all of the manufacturers, alone.
It was quite strange to drive the first time, since there is no noise when starting.
However, it is 4000 pounds of mass. That's just crazy. But that's the way modern humans like things, I guess.
As for the gauge on the dash that shows MPG, it is essentially a lie. It's MPG plus energy from charging the batteries. That mpg excludes a major factor involved in moving the car.
The car is fantastic for short trips. This is where it excels. One can use this car and never have the engine come on. This is how it differs from the other hybrids. They put a priority on running from batteries.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)He owns the landscaping business I work for (but I have known him ~35 years and only worked for him ~7 so I don't refer to him as my boss as much as my friend) and his commute to work is less than 10 miles. He is going to have a charging stations both at his home and his business so he can charge at both locations.
His job includes meeting with customers so he ends up running to appointments and then back to work fairly often. The idea is to come into work and plug the car in, then run to appointments before finishing the work day back at the office where the car is again plugged in for the ride home (where it then charges overnight).
He thinks it will save him over $200.00 a month compared to the pickup he has been driving.
I know the MPG should read MPG-e and should have included that in my original post, my bad.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I expect they will only get better over time. Down the road hybrid sounds really good...
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)he says he got a good deal but it is on a 3 year lease, he didn't actually buy it. Even he is a little afraid of investing in technology that is this new.
I don't think he had to wait to get it but he did have a limited selection of vehicles that were available. He cares more about what options it has than the color so he ended up with a white one. He also got some special wheels/rims that he didn't really want but they were on the car so he took them.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)doc03
(35,382 posts)with the premium you pay it is just not cost effective. I don't see any advantage to owning one other than maybe getting a
good feeling you are doing something about the environment. I can't see paying a $20000 plus premium for a car just to make me feel good.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)His lease allows him 15,000 miles a year so we can use that as the standard for any calculations.
Cestode
(32 posts)The Volt: MSRP $31,645
MPG: 60
* Estimating MPG with this car is tricky, 60 is an approximation
[link:http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/11/chevy-volt-gets-equivalent-of-93-mpg-but/|
The Cruze ECO: $19,500
MPG: 42
Difference in price between these two vehicles is $12,145
Lets assume gas costs 4$/gal
* I know prices won't stay at $4/gal over the years, which will work to the Volt's advantage,
However, the Volt requires premium fuel, which (in Canada is 15 cents more / Litre !!) more than makes up for it.
Driving 15000 miles in a year will cost a Volt owner $1000.00 (@ 60mpg)
The same amount of driving will cost a Cruze Eco owner $1428.60 (@ 42mpg)
This means the Volt owner, compared to the Cruze Eco's owner, saves $428.60/yr in fuel.
The Volt owner payed $12,145 more for his/her car so they would need to own the car (@15000 miles/yr)
for (12,145 / 428.60 = 28) Twenty Eight years in order to break even. Wow, that seems high.
Now this is all assuming 60mpg, which as I mentioned, is not easy to estimate with this car.
Chevrolet and the auto market are moving in the right direction with these cars. The prices of hybrids are dropping all across the board, making them more economically viable for the average buyer (example, the Inisght and Prius C). Unfortunately, the Volt is a bit of a beast in terms of cost and if you are looking to 'save' money, this is definitely the wrong car.
doc03
(35,382 posts)so that will add several more years to that 28 year payback. Another thing nobody ever mentions is the cost of batteries. I would guess in 28 years you would have to purchase at least 2 sets of batteries at who knows what price? Same with the Prius, how long do the batteries last and what does it cost for new ones? What about the cost of electricity? I just can't see paying $42000 for what is basically a $20000 car.
Cestode
(32 posts)$31k, is just the base MSRP for this vehicle.
You're right, in that the average one sells for about 40k.
I think they're decent cars, but for a budget-conscious buyer, they're a really bad buy.
n/t
doc03
(35,382 posts)I just saw my first Volt about two months ago and wasn't impressed with it. Like I said it is basically a Cruze yet it has less passenger and cargo room. If they sell enough of them I suppose eventually the price will come down substantially. I can't see that many people buying them unless gas goes much higher than $4.
SmellyFeet
(162 posts)That adds an additional $30-$60 dollars a month for the Volt.
Robb
(39,665 posts)...some Volt fanatic website had a miles per kWh page with real-world results. I based my estimates on a 15-mile round-trip to work each day (all electric), and our local 15 cents per kWh.
I seem to recall I figured each year I'd save about $800 in gas money at $3.50 per gallon, over my current vehicle.
Payback wasn't in the cards. Although if I could remotely afford it, I'd be there in a heartbeat just to not have to buy gasoline most of the time.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I will agree that there are some similarities but The Volt is much nicer inside and has higher performance than The Cruze. The Cruze goes from 0 to 60 in 9.6 seconds while the Volt does it in 8.53.
The Volt also has more luxury options than the Cruze and is simply nicer inside. It just isn't as nice a car (not that it isn't nice).
Cruze
Volt
Saying that they are the same car simply isn't right. The Volt is much nicer.
Next your math is way way off. If you had checked Wiki they would have told you this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_volt
^snip^
According to Edmunds.com, the price premium paid for the Volt, after discounting the US$7,500 U.S. federal tax credit, takes a long time for consumers to recover in fuel savings, often longer than the normal ownership time period. Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at US$31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at US$19,656) and found that the payback period for the plug-in hybrid is 15 years for gasoline prices at US$3 per gallon, 12 years at US$4 per gallon, and drops to 9 years with gasoline prices at US$5 per gallon. At February 2012 prices, the break even period is 14 years. These estimates assume an average of 15,000 miles (24,000 km) annual driving and vehicle prices correspond to Edmunds.com's true market value estimates.[78]
So you can see that your estimate of 28 years is more than double what other estimates would be.
Yes the Volt costs more than a Cruze but it really is a much nicer car. It isn't fair to compare them (even though we just did).
doc03
(35,382 posts)A Buick Verano is a little nicer than the Cruze also but it's a little more expensive and is still basically a Cruze. That's pretty bad when even after $7500 of taxpayers money the thing doesn't break even until after 14 years. In addition to that everyone conveniently ignores the battery life and cost of batteries. I have seen the Volt and the interior was slightly different but I wouldn't say it was much nicer. There is less rear seat room and the cargo capacity is far less than the Cruze. How much longer is that taxpayers giveaway going to last?
madokie
(51,076 posts)I'd buy one even though its a chevy, ford man here. The reason being that this is helping to take us in another direction, a direction away from gasoline ultimately. To me that is the bases for my willingness to own one. It would be good for the nest we live on/in.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Doing something food for the environment is wholly separate from feeling good you are doing something good about the environment. Although I imagine many people can't see paying $20,000 for feeling good, I imagine many people will indeed pay $20,000 to actually do something good.
However, I can certainly understand a confusion between the two concepts if it serves to better validate our own biases, and trivialize those of others.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)Hopefully someone else paid for it.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)It's a good car and also good for the environment, so why are you concerned?
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)I know someone down here that bought one and he said it's
turned out to be a POS. He plans on dumping it as soon as
he can find another sucker.
JanMichael
(24,891 posts)and didn't like it...so....everyone who owns one is a "sucker."
I see.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)JanMichael
(24,891 posts)you have no idea what I drive unless you have been following my posts for the past decade.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)Because they are considered very good cars.
Oh, your post definitely made it seem you are concerned.
JanMichael
(24,891 posts)I think the technology is just going to get better...we are looking forward to owning one in the future--- well, maybe not a Chevy, but one of the electric cars....(we haven't even looked at one because we can't afford a new car right now)
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine that many people believe that one instance from a large sample is a valid inference. And although it's certainly not, I imagine many people still believe is-- if only to better validate their own opinions...
Robb
(39,665 posts)gvstn
(2,805 posts)I'll never forget my first run in with a moving Prius. I was walking through a large hospital parking lot on a very hot and still summer day. I was the only one around. Someone in a Prius was backing out of their parking spot and I ended up within six inches of the car because it was completely silent. No sound at all in electric mode. I jumped back like I saw a ghost! Very unexpected and creepy.
I think they added some sort of "noise" where now you hear the car moving, as a safety measure. I seem to remember there being a controversy over the silence, shortly after they came out. If I lived in the city where kids play among the parked cars lining the streets, I would have been terrified of having kids around that quiet a car. Of course, I've been close to many Priuses but they don't seem quite as silent as they once were. (Or, maybe I was distracted that day?)
At any rate, it does take some getting used to, and makes you realize that you use your sense of hearing for more than you realize in daily life.
Enjoy your test drive! And please let us know your first impressions.
JanMichael
(24,891 posts)that do need to be addressed...one concern on major university campus' here in NC is blind students, and the electric maintenance vehicles that are are on the sidewalks too-
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)and hope more people buy it so the price comes down
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)It depends on how warm it is what milage you get out of the battery. When it's cold, we get around 30 to a charge; when it's warm, we get closer to 40. It's a very nice car that has given us zero trouble. And, as another poster said, it's a marvel of modern engineering. Nice sound system, too.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It really is something.
stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)the sound system was probably $8k alone (2k for each letter on the name plate).
and they probably have it wired with MONSTER Cable...
I'm kidding of course.
Does Tesla include a Bang & Olufsen system?
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Unfortunately it didn't make finaincial sense for me. With my 2012 Chevy Malibu (4 cylinder, non hybred 25 MPG CITY -33 HWY) I spend $120 a month on gas for my 25 mile commute and travel 4-5 times a year to LA (a 1000 mile round trip) the payment on the Volt was $800 a month, $450 more than the Malibu. The Volt won't make it to LA where I need to be every couple of months.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Here in CO it's something absurd like $10K off the sticker price when you include the rebates.
That interesting on the Malibu range, I haven't had a car that would go that far on a tank in years. And it was a diesel.
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Sorry I was not clear, range on the Mailbu is about 500 give or take with elevation changes. (up hill or down hill)
colinmom71
(653 posts)One of the cars we really liked (a Ford Flex) just did not work out for us financially. It would have been a great vehicle for us, but the dealership was just not willing to give a fair deal. $500 a month for a car that would have cost more to fuel *and* insure than our previous vehicle (a Ford Taurus wagon) was just not feasible for our budget.
I looked at the Toyota Prius v and a few other hybrid vehicles, but nothing looked like it would fit our disabled child, his wheelchair, and my physical well-being better than the Ford Flex or the Mazda5. There are pretty much NO fuel efficient vehicles that accommodate disabled persons and/or their equipment. We have some family friends who use a Saturn Ion (with the "suicide doors" to accommodate the wife's disabilities and her wheelchair, and that's small and relatively fuel efficient. But, my child requires a positioning chair and it won't fold well into a sedan.
So, our choice was to purchase a Mazda5, which has been great! It actually has better gas milage (thus far, 22/28) than the older Taurus wagon and is so terribly fun to drive! It drives and handles like my old 1992 Ford Escort GT that I had in college. It's fantastic, and it's a mini-van!
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)but just out of curiosity, did you look at the Ford Transit Connect? The estimated MPG is 22/27 and they start at about $22,000.
cyglet
(529 posts)Loved them.
Why did Ford stop making them?
gvstn
(2,805 posts)I need a new vehicle that could accommodate both a folded wheelchair and an electric scooter. Plus at least three passengers.
We've made due with a Toyota Camry that has trunk space to store the scooter but with including the wheelchair (taking the fourth seat) really squashes the third passenger.
I'm figuring some type of Crossover would fit my needs but haven't really gone about eyeing them up in person. Have you seen anything that could accommodate both a scooter which would take the rear space but also allow some way of standing up a folded wheelchair, all behind the seats?
I think a Honda CRV would be too small.
Maybe a Mazda 7 or 9 could do it. Nissan Murano or maybe the Ford Edge or a Chevrolet model might be big enough.
I don't want to go full SUV if I can avoid it.
I'm trying to figure out if you saw something that would take a wheel chair (folded) that could fit in the rear space standing upright so as to not compromise the space needed for the scooter. A vehicle that would take a folded wheel chair in the rear space and still leave enough room for a scooter which would take up most of the available space. Just by eyeing them up in parking lots, I haven't narrowed down the possibilities. I'm curious if you have nay advice about what might be too small.
Thanks!
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It has that on board gasoline generator so that the car never runs out of power (so long as you don't run out of gas).
midnight
(26,624 posts)be offset with the 84 MPG.
"Cutting edge lithium ion battery packs being built for the Volt are expensive. Some experts guess they cost up to $10,000 although certainly GM nor their suppliers are saying what the actual numbers will be.
When one looks at the close to $40,000 price tag for the Volt it is recognized that the pack makes up a significant component of that."http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/03/lutz-each-volt-factors-in-the-cost-of-a-battery-replacement/
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)so with any luck the cost will come down by 2020 (but my friend only leased it for 3 years).
http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/19/chevrolet-volt-battery-warranty-details-and-clarifications/
^snip^
After all this time its pretty amazing to hear GMs final decision on the Chevrolet Volts battery warranty. Eight years or 100,000 miles.