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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCharles P. Pierce on President Bernie
Bernie Sanders won't be president? No kidding, Bob. What was your first freaking clue? But, as I said, here's the thing. Chris Christie won't be president, either. Rand Paul won't be president, either. Nobody's out there in 2014 reminding their supporters that they'll have to come to their senses some day. There is nobody telling Martin O'Malley's supporters that they all should lay in some "READY FOR HILLARY" buttons against that inevitable day when the campaign craters. It is not a disqualifying flaw in a candidate two years before the election that the candidate is unlikely to win -- or, even, that the candidate is very unlikely to win -- because, if it were, nobody would be qualified to run. This is all understood, if rarely spoken, by the people who judge such things. But, so far, it's a standard that has been openly applied only to Bernie Sanders. (Jesus, there are reporters out there who still are seriously talking about bringing back Willard Romney.) Why is it that Bernie Sanders is only in this to "push the dialogue to the left," while Ted Cruz, who is a fking nut six ways to Sunday, is running because he has a "substantial constituency within the party"?
What is going on, I believe, is not an effort to marginalize Sanders but, rather, to marginalize what he's talking about, because making a presidential election purely about class is something we don't do any more. It really isn't funny that Sanders talks incessantly about "the middle class," because people who perceive themselves as middle class are finding themselves broken and sinking into poverty. Income inequality, and its pernicious effects on our people and our politics and our entire culture, is worth discussing, in detail, in a national election, and if Bernie Sanders wants to be monomaniacal on the subject, so what? Rudy Giuliani got months of great press as a potential president out of what Joe Biden famously called, "A noun, a verb, and 9/11." Nobody accused Giuliani of running merely to push the conversation to the right, or into drag, or whatever. I'm old enough to remember 1979, when the smart money thought Ronald Reagan a superannuated joke. Right now, the 2016 election is nothing more than a vague national conversation about what's important. If it's all the same to everybody, for the moment, I'll treat Bernie Sanders as a potential president the same way I'd treat Hillary Clinton or any of the others, thanks. It's fking September of 2014. Nothing else makes sense.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Weekend_With_Bernie
Boston writers, baby. Represent.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Charlie Pierce. Always. The man tells it like it is.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Look what they do to ANYONE who talks about what Bernie is talking about. See OWS eg, of Kucinich, or ANYONE who dares to attack the corrupt system we now live under.
Go BERNIE!
The smear campaign is no doubt ready to go. We already have seen a few signs of it.
Hopefully people will ignore these paid for smear campaigns and listen to the candidate themselves.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)You can see traces of it in pretty much any Sanders thread with more then 10 replies
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)real smears/guns will be reserved until he actually announces. I'm sure he knows this and should keep them waiting and frustrated too, they LOVE to show off how smart they are, until the last moment.
I hear he has a temper, is trying to split the vote, etc etc. I hope they didn't pay much for what I''ve seen so far.
I think that these kinds of deliberate attempts to smear, and pay for it, good candidates should be illegal.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)Go Bernie!!
daleanime
(17,796 posts)mazzarro
(3,450 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Hell, I was watching some year-old Daily Show episodes last night (John Oliver hosting) and even then, three years before the 2016 election, Hillary was being declared the inevitable candidate. Three years. Has that ever happened before?
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, thinking that the American people couldn't possibly be so monumentally stupid enough to elect him.
Perhaps, they could be monumentally smart enough to reject politics-as-usual and elect Bernie Sanders.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Rowan and Martin mocked the idea of Reagan as President in 1969:
LongTomH
(8,636 posts).......if not the greatest!
He's usually given the credit for 'the fall of the Soviet Union." Real history is too complicated for the public's little minds!
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)-- George Orwell
This is not some goofy leftist paranoid fantasy, either. There is a reason that defense contractors bought up media conglomerates, and why the Citizen's United decision came as it did: those who can control the mass distribution of information and control the perceptions of the electorate. Hence, Reagan is a "great" President because those who want us to think so spent a lot of money beating the "Reagan Is Great" drum.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I thought it would be Very Bad and it sure as hell was.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Ralph Nader single-handedly made Bush President in 2000.* If Bernie Sanders dares to become roadkill under Hillary's tank treads, Rand Paul will surely be our next leader with Glenn Greenwald as his VP.
Wake up, people! Hillary is inevitable, but vulnerable!
Regards,
TWM
*Anyone claiming that Gore, SCOTUS, or the Florida branch of the BFEE had anything to do with that outcome is a paid disruptor.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to put his name on the ballot. They want a built in excuse. Not that they won't figure something else out.
What will be interesting to me is whether the BFEE will attack H. Clinton-Sachs. Depends if they think Jeb, the smarter son (I didn't say smart, but compared to Dim-Son, he is the smarter son and he is Babs favorite) is going to run. Who do the Koch Krime Family want?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)You give me joy.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Are your words always completely stupid?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)then that would instantly make the answer "no".
Helluva conundrum there.
JEB
(4,748 posts)I mean no.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)
Yet somehow gets treated as a serious candidate even after the humiliation of 2012. Nobody needs to bracket discussion of Bernie Sanders with "but I know he can't win" if that clown is considered a legitimate contender.
Bernie will erase any doubt of his place with each speech and each TV appearance.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)who need Benz-os to live a normal life, m'kay?
tomp
(9,512 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)As worst-case scenarios go, that's a pretty darned good one.
Same reason I supported Kucinich in 2008.
Best case? President Bernie. Oh hell yeah. Unlikely, but I think it could be awesome.
marble falls
(57,093 posts)Ms Clinton.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Integrity. Sorely lacking in most politicians.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)But that's about it.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)"Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. "
-- Homer Simpson
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Make that the femtosecond.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)lie during the campaign in order to WIN, then go right back to what they really believe AFTER the campaign?
I never understood this. It seems to say that you can change a politician's views simply by challenging them in the campaign. Is there an example of this EVER being successful?
djean111
(14,255 posts)to the left. I am told this is perfectly okay, and then when I criticize, I am blandly told hey, you voted for that politician.
Elections are now nothing more, for the most part, than a re-telling of that old story about the fox giving the scorpion a ride across the river, the scorpion biting the dog after promising not to bite, and telling the dying dog that he knew he was giving a ride to a scorpion.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Because they're Dems. Then when we complain, hey, you shouldn't have voted for them.
Well, we've had enough experience now to know this routine and that is why people are not buying it anymore.
I don't care what they say in the campaign anymore, I am looking at their records as far back as I can.
Which is why I will never support Hillary, no matter how 'progressive' she may sound in the campaign. Her voting record on some very important issues is right there and that is what I use to decide on who to support, believe in the campaign.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Damn right.
Paladin
(28,261 posts)If you don't have his daily contributions to the Esquire political site bookmarked, I strongly suggest you do so.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)If he was ten years younger, maybe. But now? He'll be closer to 80 than 70 when he takes office. No thanks.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)I fucking LOVE Charlie Pierce!
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)the hypothesis Bernie is now testing in a scientific manner. Hell, they aren't ignoring it. They're trying to hide it.
That hypothesis is that the American voting public is becoming ever more disenchanted/less invested in the current Democratic/Republican Party "debate", which at this point consists mostly of flinging monkey poo and hurling personal insults. (I swear, if one more conservative wack job tells me how ugly Michelle Obama is I am going to break bad in Irish style. Ms. Obama is a lovely and athletic woman ... but I digress, and in recognition of that return my next monkey poo projectile to the ammo bag. Mea culpa. Forgive.)
The American voter is fed up, backed up onto the ropes, has little to zero faith in our political institutions, and may well be ready for something that resembles a substantive change. Senator Sanders is testing that hypothesis with his exploration of candidacy.
It's a bold hypothesis, which the leadership of neither Party is particularly eager to evaluate. But there is supporting evidence in polling data. The last time I checked, the Communist Party had a higher approval rating than Congress, as one example. I don't know if things have ripened yet, but they are ripening. Look at what is happening in Kansas, Georgia, and other places where Republican grip is weakening or down right slipping. If the Democrats had a cohesive vision they could present clearly and with confidence to the middle class right now, they would be coasting to the majorities in House and Senate right now.
Senator Sanders may meet with success or failure in his current effort ... but in either case, we will have a better understanding of the degree of ripening out there. And more people will have new ideas to mull over. I choose to nurture this experiment in those small ways I can ... discussion here, donation there, and I admit to hopes that things are well ripened and Sanders' speeches act as a match to dry straw. Things can happen very quickly in this country ... Sanders just might be the guy to trigger it. (Or Senator Warren is she chooses to step up to the plate ... )
But make no mistake. My highest priority is to help defeat the Republicans in every contest possible. Because those guys are certifiably nuts, and demonstrably willing to inflict any damage on the American people they perceive necessary to expand their power. They have to be stopped in their tracks. I urge the Senator, and other Sanders supporters (yes ... count me in at this point) to beware of dividing this Party. The Visigoths are at the gates and we can't let 'em in! (Apologies to the Visigoths ... they really don't deserve to be lumped in with Republicans.)
Just my two cents.
Trav
Clyde Tenson
(65 posts)....and Charlie's right on. Sanders and Warren in twenty-sixteen!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Nothing can be allowed to upset that status quo.
marlene.elyse
(20 posts)mainly for the simple fact that the establishment or 'the powers that be' seemed to have vetted, funded the super pac and decided long before anyone outside the beltway had considered it. I respect Hillary and if she wins the primary, I may vote for her. We should not forget, however, that During Bill Clinton's administration we lost ground on welfare, we got NAFTA, media consolidation and the most dangerous deregulation since the new deal.
I don't care how freaking old Bernie Sanders is- he has been more active than anyone in speaking up for us. He has tried to encourage a movement, he has traveled all over (including the deep south) to talk to average Americans. He takes questions from anyone on Thom Hartman's show every Friday. He got a bill passed to help veterans.
Yes, of course they will try to marginalize him and his message because they have marginalized all of us. They fear him because he has the one thing that they cannot buy. He is not corrupt and not afraid. So if he does run, I will do whatever I can to support him. And if he doesn't run or doesn't win- at least it might bring about a more constructive conversation.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)about." <
When someone says "gonna take votes away" this is exactly what I hear them saying. And then I just hear buzzing until it fades away...
I wonder if horticultural oil would help, every three days for two weeks? Sure helped with Spider Mites, and I like them a lot better than third way phonies.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)then my answer to them is: Then your candidate needs to do a better job of campaigning.
It's as if rank-and-file Democrats have decided that they really don't care what their candidate stands for.
JEB
(4,748 posts)makes so much sense, many many registered Republicans will likely vote for him. They will be referred to in future years as Sanders Republicans. The corrupt system (media, Oligarchs, professional sellout politicians) will try to tamp him down, but his message is simple, straight forward and strong. A breath of fresh air in a very stinky room.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)I don't expect him to win, but my current state's primary is after the election is likely to be decided anyway. But I'll record my voice in favor of somebody who stands up for the same values I do, and regardless if Bernie's the nominee or somebody else, I'll vote for that person in the general election.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)about what he's doing. What is Hillary doing? Oh, that's right...she's "going to make a decision in 2015." And Bernie is also talking issues that affect prit near all of us. I say get Don Draper on the Sanders account right after the midterms.
Seriously, Bernie's got my vote. With pleasure.
mrsadm
(1,198 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Thank you, WilliamPitt!
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Hotler
(11,424 posts)What about the classes below the middle?????????
The usual assumption is that the working poor don't vote!
Sadly, that's often true, simply because they don't have time with two or more jobs.
BrainDrain
(244 posts)Like you said..it is September 2014 who knows what is going to pop up on the road ahead. We can no more call Bernie a waste of time than we can call HRC "inevitable". Neither is true.
DinahMoeHum
(21,789 posts). . .and between now and then, it's gonna be a bumpy roller coaster ride.
marmar
(77,081 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Let us not forget that President Bill Clinton was practically an unknown until less than a year before the election.
Just more of the money trying to clear the field for their candidate, whoever that may be.
We need to do our best to get money out of politics before the 2016 election.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They think that will be a good distraction from things like your paycheck sucking.