Bernhard Goetz (re: George Zimmerman)

[ChicagoRonin]

I'm surprised I haven't heard Goetz's name mentioned once (as far as I can tell) since the Trayvon Martin shooting became big news. I came of age in the mid-80s and remember the media hoopla over his vigilante actions. I also recall that a lot of folks made him out to be hero (He's even name-checked in the forward of my copy of Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns&quot .

I wonder if Goetz would have any opinions about the Zimmerman/Martin case, since it seems like he may have inadvertently contributed to the rise of "Stand Your Ground" laws.

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From Wikipedia:
Bernhard Hugo Goetz (born November 7, 1947) is an American man best known for shooting four young black men who tried to mug him on a New York City Subway train, resulting in his conviction for illegal possession of a firearm. He came to symbolize New Yorkers’ frustrations with the high crime rates of the early 1980s. The incident occurred on a No. 2 train in Manhattan on December 22, 1984. It sparked a nationwide debate on race and crime in major cities, and the legal limits of self-defense.

Goetz fired an unlicensed revolver five times, seriously wounding all the alleged muggers. Following this incident, he was dubbed the "Subway Vigilante" by the New York press, and was both praised and vilified in the media and in public opinion.

He surrendered to police nine days later and was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, and several firearms offenses. A jury found him not guilty of all charges except an illegal firearms possession count, for which he served two-thirds of a one-year sentence. The incident has been cited as a contributing factor to the groundswell movement against urban crime and disorder, and successful National Rifle Association campaigns to loosen restrictions on the concealed carrying of firearms.

[still_one]

1. very weakly similar but not even close in my view. zimmerman was stalking Tayvon Martin, not the

same thing as goetz. goetz was waiting for someone to approach him so he could use it as an excuse

zimmerman did the approaching

[exboyfil]

2. I remember always wondering why

what Charles Bronson did in Death Wish was illegal (gun charge aside). Is putting yourself out for bait and then responding with deadly force to forceful provocation a crime? Do criminals have a right to mug you? Stay out of this neighborhood or stay off the subway. You can see why residents would get frustrated and want to start packing a gun.

Goetz is a little more complicated because some reports say he shot at least one individual after they were already done and said something like "Here is another one." Also was he truly being mugged?

[RevStPatrick]

3. I've met Mr. Goetz a few times...

...and had a few casual conversations with him (not about the incident).

20 or more years after the incident, he was nervous and twitchy in a relaxed atmosphere.
I can only imagine what he would be like under stress.
There's something... I don't know... "not quite right" about the fellow, if you know what I mean.

I imagine there's something "not quite right" about Mr. Zimmerman as well.

[slackmaster]

4. Goetz was actually attacked. He was in real danger.

This is a bullshit comparison.

[BlueToTheBone]

5. It would be interesting to hear what Bernie has to say

about Zimmerman. I think there is a vast difference in the 2 cases though. Z was following and G was being mugged. But you're probably right that that was the beginning of the loosening of laws.

Although Trayvon has become a national symbol, in the past week there have been a number of other murders of black men in just as blatant as his. There has to be an end to this madness.