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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 08:37 PM Sep 2014

The IMF’s New Cold War Loan to Ukraine

Losing Credibility

by MICHAEL HUDSON
CounterPunch, Sept. 09, 2014

In April 2014, fresh from riots in Maidan Square and the February 22 coup, and less than a month before the May 2 massacre in Odessa, the IMF approved a $17 billion loan program to Ukraine’s junta. Normal IMF practice is to lend only up to twice a country’s quote in one year. This was eight times as high.

Four months later, on August 29, just as Kiev began losing its attempt at ethnic cleansing against the eastern Donbas region, the IMF signed off on the first loan ever to a side engaged in a civil war, not to mention rife with insider capital flight and a collapsing balance of payments. Based on fictitiously trouble-free projections of the ability to pay, the loan supported Ukraine’s hernia currency long enough to enable the oligarchs’ banks to move their money quickly into Western hard-currency accounts before the hernia plunged further and was worth even fewer euros and dollars.

This loan demonstrates the degree to which the IMF is an arm of U.S. Cold War politics. Kiev used the loan for military expenses to attack the Eastern provinces, and the loan terms imposed the usual budget austerity, as if this would stabilize the country’s finances. Almost nothing will be received from the war-torn East, where basic infrastructure has been destroyed for power generation, water, hospitals and the civilian housing areas that bore the brunt of the attack. Nearly a million civilians are reported to have fled to Russia. Yet the IMF release announced: “The IMF praised the government’s commitment to economic reforms despite the ongoing conflict.”[1] A quarter of Ukraine’s exports normally are from eastern provinces, and are sold mainly to Russia. But Kiev has been bombing Donbas industry and left its coal mines without electricity.

This loan is bound to create even more dissension among IMF staff economists than broke out openly over the disastrous $47 billion loan to Greece – at that time the largest loan in IMF history – prompted a 50-page internal document leaked to the Wall Street Journal acknowledging that the IMF had “badly underestimated the damage that its prescriptions of austerity would do to Greece’s economy.” staff economists blamed pressure from eurozone countries protecting their own “banks [that] held too much Greek government debt. … The IMF had originally projected Greece would lose 5.5% of its economic output between 2009 and 2012. The country has lost 17% in real gross domestic output instead. The plan predicted a 15% unemployment rate in 2012. It was 25%.[2]

SNIP...

John Helmer’s Dances with Bears calculates that “of the $3.2 billion disbursed to the Ukrainian treasury by the IMF at the start of May, $3.1 billion had disappeared offshore by the middle of August.”[4] This raises the question of whether the IMF’s loan is legally an “odious debt,” being made to a military junta and stolen by government insiders. The IMF acknowledged that the central bank was simply turning money over to the kleptocrats who run the country’s banks as part of their conglomerates (as well as funding the government’s military attack on the East, largely on behalf of the leading kleptocrats behind the Maidan coup). “The proportion of government securities and loans to banks increased from 28 percent of NBU total assets at end-2010 to 56 percent at end-April 2014.” The financial situation is getting so much worse that to stave off insolvency, Ukraine’s leading banks are reported to need another $5 billion over and above the IMF’s $17 billion commitment.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/09/the-imfs-new-cold-war-loan-to-ukraine/

kleptocrat
Syllabification: klep·to·crat
Pronunciation: /ˈkleptəˌkrat /
NOUN
A ruler who uses political power to steal his or her country’s resources.
52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The IMF’s New Cold War Loan to Ukraine (Original Post) Octafish Sep 2014 OP
This is why Kissinger. Octafish Sep 2014 #1
DURec leftstreet Sep 2014 #2
Guess who's talking at Yalta? Octafish Sep 2014 #5
Ironically, in a piece called "Losing Credibility", the piece loses its own credibility.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #3
Michael Hudson Octafish Sep 2014 #4
That's lovely. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #23
Isn't it, though? Octafish Sep 2014 #26
If you define "integrity" as someone who blatantly lies in the face of truth, sure. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #27
No. Integrity means he pegged the banksters from Day 1. Octafish Sep 2014 #28
Calling it right in America in 2008 doesn't make him any less wrong.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #30
When so many people are saying the same thing, people who actually sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #31
Who are all the people claiming that there was a coup in Ukraine? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #32
I'm saying the OPPOSITE. I'm saying that video evidence AND audio evidence of the coup sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #34
You are smart enough to realize that not all regime changes are "coups", correct? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #35
Yanukovich was driven from his position as elected president of Ukraine by months of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #37
Regardless of your personal charactarization of the Maidan protests, Yanukovych was not removed.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #38
Utter baloney.... Xolodno Sep 2014 #42
Yanukovych had a tendency of saying one thing and doing another. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #43
The fact it took him three days doesn't prove.. Xolodno Sep 2014 #44
You're playing fast and loose with the concept of a "coup" now. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #48
No where near as "fast and loose" as the installation of the Bush/Cheney regime and the blowback bobthedrummer Sep 2014 #50
Okay? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #51
Seriously, how many more sources, and there are now literally thousands across the globe sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #6
Lot of people don't understand how the World Bank works or Rex Sep 2014 #8
I know, but here on DU, it's hard to believe there is a single person who needs an 'assessment' sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #9
Also that was back on DU2 when it was a less strict forum. We could talk all day Rex Sep 2014 #10
It would be funny if it weren't so sad malaise Sep 2014 #13
I'm more than happy to read an honest, objective analysis of the IMF. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #25
I believe you are speaking for yourself. The author's credentials sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #33
A mere appeal to authority is a fallacious position. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #36
Excellent article, thank you. This was all about the IMF V Ukraine being independent of the sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #7
Larry Summers to address Yalta European Strategy (YES) conference, being held in Kiev this year... Octafish Sep 2014 #18
Great article deserves a Kick. nt elias49 Sep 2014 #11
The article is right on the mark... MattSh Sep 2014 #12
The force behind the creation of the IMF and World Bank - FDR. Who wants out of both - pampango Sep 2014 #14
The IMF and World Bank long ago strayed from anything they were intended for originally. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #39
Then who loans money to countries that need it? Rich countries, rich corporations, rich pampango Sep 2014 #41
Take Ukraine. The government had a choice, take the IMF loans which have MAJOR strings sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #45
Perhaps Yanukovich made a wise choice but he was reversing a campaign pledge. People cared. pampango Sep 2014 #47
Excellent response. nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #52
Vladimir Putin said he could "take Kiev in two weeks” Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #15
Ukraine prefers to face repossession by the west than repossession by russia mathematic Sep 2014 #16
I would rather someone make me a loan than annex part of my property (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #17
Me too, which is why I would avoid any loans from the IMF, where that is their very goal, to sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #40
Only if Ukraine means malaise Sep 2014 #19
BKliban explained... Octafish Sep 2014 #20
ROFL malaise Sep 2014 #21
LOL leftstreet Sep 2014 #29
excellent woo me with science Sep 2014 #49
"You don't understand.....that Ukraine is not even a state." Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #24
kicking.....n/t Hotler Sep 2014 #22
The Kamikaze Economics and Politics of Forcing Austerity on the Ukraine Octafish Sep 2014 #46

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
1. This is why Kissinger.
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 09:34 PM
Sep 2014

YES conference.

http://yes-ukraine.org/en/

Catch Live Stream with Ukrainian neopresident Petro Poroshenko and Martin Schulz, president of the European parliament.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. Guess who's talking at Yalta?
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:19 AM
Sep 2014

Yalta European Strategy 2014...

Speakers also include corporate leaders, economists and experts, including: Niall Ferguson, Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History, Harvard University; Roger Myerson, Professor of Economics, University of Chicago, Nobel Memorial Prize Laureate in Economic Sciences (2007); Timothy Snyder, Professor, Yale University; Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund (2007-2011); Lawrence H. Summers, Charles W. Eliot University Professor, Harvard University Kennedy School of Government; Pavlo Sheremeta, former Minister for Economic Development and Trade of Ukraine (2014); Maxim Timchenko, Chief Executive Officer, Chairman of the Management Board, DTEK; Sviatoslav Vakarchuk, Founder, Foundation "People of the Future"; Civic Leader; Igor Yurgens, Chairman of the Management Board, Institute for Contemporary Development; Ruslan Grinberg, Director, Institute of Economics, Russian Academy of Sciences,  and others.

SOURCE: http://yes-ukraine.org/en/news/12-veresnya-u-kiyevi-prezident-ukrayini-petro-poroshenko-prezident-respubliki-estoniya-toomas-gendrik-ilves-ta-prezident-yevropeyskogo-parlamentu-martin-shults-vidkriyut-11-tu-shchorichnu-zustrich-yes

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
3. Ironically, in a piece called "Losing Credibility", the piece loses its own credibility....
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:15 PM
Sep 2014

....in its very first sentence.

I'd like to read more about the IMF and make a honest assessment of it, but if I can't trust the author of the piece to objectively report basic facts, why even bother here with this particular piece?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. Michael Hudson
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:13 AM
Sep 2014

Michael Hudson is President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends (ISLET), a Wall Street Financial Analyst, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and author of The Bubble and Beyond (2012), Super-Imperialism: The Economic Strategy of American Empire (1968 & 2003), Trade, Development and Foreign Debt (1992 & 2009) and of The Myth of Aid (1971).

ISLET engages in research regarding domestic and international finance, national income and balance-sheet accounting with regard to real estate, and the economic history of the ancient Near East.

Michael acts as an economic advisor to governments worldwide including Iceland, Latvia and China on finance and tax law. He gives presentations on various topics at conferences and meetings and can be booked here. Listen to some of his many radio interviews to hear his hyperspeed analysis of the geo-political machinations of global economics. Travel costs and a per diem are appreciated.

http://michael-hudson.com/about/

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
23. That's lovely.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 09:24 AM
Sep 2014

But if someone can't even be trusted to provide an accurate description of events in Ukraine in February, or if they somehow attribute an act of mob violence (two-sided, mind you) to the Ukrainian central government, why should I bother to take anything else they have to say with the slightest bit of authority?

I can certainly get an honest, objective opinion on the IMF from someone who doesn't start off their columns with blatant distortions of the truth. I don't give a flying fig about Hudson's credentials.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
27. If you define "integrity" as someone who blatantly lies in the face of truth, sure.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 10:15 AM
Sep 2014

I guess he has "integrity" under that definition.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
28. No. Integrity means he pegged the banksters from Day 1.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 11:26 AM
Sep 2014
The Big Bank Job

The Insanity of the $700 Billion Giveaway

by MICHAEL HUDSON
CounterPunch Sept. Sept. 25, 2008

The banksters’ plan now is for icing on the cake – to take Mr. Paulson’s $700 billion and run. It’s not a “bailout of the financial system.” It’s as giveaway – to insiders, to sell out all their bad bets. Companies across the board will get rid of their bad mortgages, and also their bad car loans, furniture time payments, credit-card loans, student loans – all the debts that any competent actuary could have told them never could have been paid in the first place.

This is not what Treasury Secretary Paulson is acknowledging, and shame on him for it. Last Friday, Sept., he was joined by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke singing in unison an advertising jingle for America’s new kleptocracy that rings so false that Congress and the American public must hear the off-notes. London’s Financial Times, as well as a host of Europeans realize it. That is what has been driving the dollar’s exchange rate this week. It seems easier for foreigners to recognize the threat to turn American democracy into a rapacious kleptocracy.

This change always is sudden, arranged under emergency conditions. Those with a 12-year memory will see George Bush as playing the role of Boris Yeltsin in Russia in 1996, paying off his campaign contributors by giving them all the economic surplus that the government could expropriate in the notorious “loans for shares” plan applauded and supported by Clinton Treasury Secretary (and current Obama advisor) Robert Rubin. (The moral: do we have a Putin in our near future to lock in the anti-democratic coup?)

How ironic all this is! Back in the 1970s there was theorizing that the Russian and American economies were converging. The idea was that both were moving toward more centralized state control, state financing, state subsidy, and a military-industrial complex. Nobody expected the convergence to occur Yeltsin-style in government giveaways to insiders to create a new group of financial billionaires – the “seven bankers” under Yeltsin in 1996, and Mr. Paulson’s Crony Capitalist gang today.

Let’s look at the euphemisms as an exercise in doublethink. Mr. Paulson defended his “troubled asset relief program” (TARP) by claiming that “illiquid mortgage assets … have lost value … choking off the flow of credit that is so vitally important to our economy.” The credit that is “so vitally important” has taken the form of bad loans. Contra Mr. Paulson’s pretense, the problem is not that they are “illiquid.” If that were the problem, it would be merely temporary. The Federal Reserve banks are designed to provide liquidity – on good collateral, of course.

SNIP...

These bad loans are toxic because they can only be sold at a loss – if at all, because foreign investors no longer trust the U.S. investment bankers or money managers to be honest. That is the problem that Congress is not willing to come out and face. Many of these loans are outright fraudulent. And they are being sold by crooks. Crooks who work for banks. Crooks who use accounting fraud – such as the fraud that led to the firing of Maurice Greenberg at A.I.G. and his counterparts at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and other companies engaging in Enron-type accounting.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/25/the-insanity-of-the-700-billion-giveaway/

Compare that to the records for integrity of Penny Pritzker or Lawrence Summers. Can you say, "Kleptocracy"?

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
30. Calling it right in America in 2008 doesn't make him any less wrong....
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 11:32 AM
Sep 2014

...in his assessment of the Ukrainian political situation in 2014.

He could have written an objective assessment, but he chose the cheap way out .

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
31. When so many people are saying the same thing, people who actually
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:01 PM
Sep 2014

have long records of credibility, iow, that there was a coup in Ukraine, which one doesn't need to be brilliant to know, then any person who actually IS interested in the truth would begin to question their own state of denial.

The evidence was there for all to see and only the willfully blind now continue to deny that evidence.

Aside from that, this is an excellent article, a bit too kind to the IMF but I understand the author is a professional who is reporting facts. We, otoh, having watched their predatory practices and destruction of so many nations' economies while enslaving nations debt, then using that debt to steal their national assets, are free to be a bit more 'expressive' about this Global Money Cartel and its World Bank.

No nation should ever be indebted to the IMF. For a long time only Third World Countries were victims of their practices, but when countries like Venezuela shocked them and PAID OFF their IMF debt, they were furious. Nations are not supposed to break free from their financial chains. They are supposed to 'pay' their debt by giving up their resources, put on the auction block for the bargain hunters who inevitably move in to profit from the countries' suffering.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
32. Who are all the people claiming that there was a coup in Ukraine?
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:05 PM
Sep 2014

And what exactly gives them credibility on the matter other than the fact that you agree with them? Have they provided any shred of evidence as to how this "coup" was carried out, and how exactly Yanukovych was forcibly removed from power against his own will?

There is video evidence over a three day period that obliterates any and all coup conspiracy theories. Unless you are saying that video evidence is somehow fraudulent, I just don't see how you can honestly argue with a straight face that there was a coup.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
34. I'm saying the OPPOSITE. I'm saying that video evidence AND audio evidence of the coup
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:40 PM
Sep 2014

planners is extremely important. Based on that evidence alone there is no doubt that an elected president was deliberately driven out of office. Why? AFTER he decided to refuse the offer of enslaving Ukraine to the IMF and World Bank and chose instead to accept an offer from Russia which would not have carried the same never ending obligations that the IMF is infamous for.

And now you will talk about how corrupt Yanukovich was. Yes, so many of them are corrupt. However that was no problem for those pushing Ukraine into debt to the IMF. Only AFTER he refused.

There was a coup in Kiev. Coups do not always result in the murder of the leader who is the target. They often happen exactly as the coup in Kiev happened.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
35. You are smart enough to realize that not all regime changes are "coups", correct?
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 02:37 PM
Sep 2014

No one is disputing that there was a regime change in Ukraine on or around February 22nd when Yanukovych left Kiev. But simply labeling that regime change a "coup" because you and some others want it to be does not actually make it so.

The videotape at Yanukovych's mansion from February 19th until early morning February 22nd reveals that Yanukovych had truckloads of his belongings--including many, many luxury items--carefully packed up and shipped out without any sense of urgency. During this three day time period, protesters died in Maidan, Yanukovych supposedly negotiated with the EU, but it was clear that he did not have any further desire to stick around. He made a voluntary and calculated decision to skip town. No one came and shot him, or arrested him, or stuck a gun to his head and told him that he must pack up his things and leave. He just decided to leave. It's that simple.

Are you disputing any of this, ma'am?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
37. Yanukovich was driven from his position as elected president of Ukraine by months of
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:13 PM
Sep 2014

violent protests including neo-nazis and promises of support from US Senators and State Dept officials and threats etc. We witnessed the police being attacked, imagine that happening here? He was provided with no option BUT to leave or possibly be killed.

And this happened only AFTER he refused to enslave his country to the IMF. Had he chosen to accept loans from the IMF he would be President of Ukraine today.

Facts are facts and most people have accepted those facts. Denying them is futile really but if that is what you want to do, that is your business.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
38. Regardless of your personal charactarization of the Maidan protests, Yanukovych was not removed....
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:31 PM
Sep 2014

....against his own will. It may not have been his personal preference to leave, but it was his own decision, and he carefully arranged and orchestrated his own departure. He left in his own helicopters with his own stuff in tow.

That is not a coup.

Definition of coup d'état:

: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coup%20d'%C3%A9tat

We're lacking the small group. And we're lacking the violence that directly (not indirectly, directly) caused the departure. (I.e. an armed group coming in and assaulting Yanukovych or forcibly removing him against his will).

That is not a coup.

Xolodno

(6,396 posts)
42. Utter baloney....
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:07 PM
Sep 2014

You stated: "Yanukovych was not removed........against his own will."

Oh and....this isn't RT...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10655398/Ukraine-crisis-Opposition-demands-Viktor-Yanukovych-resign.html

President Viktor Yanukovych said a coup was underway against him after he left Kiev for an eastern stronghold and the country's parliament debated a motion calling for his resignation.

In a televised statement on Saturday, he said he had no intention of resigning or leaving Ukraine, comparing the country's political crisis to the rise of the Nazis in the 1930s.

The opposition quickly seized control of both buildings, while the police announced they stood "with the people" and wanted "rapid changes"

------

In other words...he didn't want to leave and the police who were essentially his last line of support...withdrew their support. They probably gave him an ultimatum. So with no protection or being informed he wouldn't have protection soon....he decided to save his ass. Kind of odd how after he left the police quickly switched sides and in less the 24 hours Parliament effectively removed him....

And the day after...he was in Karkhiv, were his power base was. If he was just going to outright bail, he could have flew to Moscow. But probably left for Russia after he realized that he was shit out of luck.


Also...not from RT:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/ousted-ukrainian-president-viktor-yanukovych-i-was-wrong-to-invite-russia-into-crimea-20140403-zqpxa.html


With tears welling in his eyes, Mr Yanukovych said he was ready to sacrifice his life during the escalating protests but realised that doing so would be simply a gift to the "neo-fascists" who he said seized power by force. He claimed they machine-gunned his convoy as he was leaving the Ukrainian capital.

"I didn't want to give them my life just for nothing," he said.

-----------

Now...Yanu may be embellishing a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised they machine gunned his convoy. He implies he was forced out.

This coup also has some eerily similarities with this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

Oh and your definition....is the narrow one...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coup%20d%27etat?s=t

1.
a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.


Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
43. Yanukovych had a tendency of saying one thing and doing another.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:28 PM
Sep 2014

Take for example the fact he signed the February 21st EU negotiated deal that would have kept him in power until expedited elections would take place....except by that point in time, he had already been packing his bags for nearly three days. He would helicopter out of town hours later.

Yes, Viktor Yanukovych spent three days packing up his goods, right at the very height of Maidan. And not just necessary survival supplies, either. No, he packed up a whole bunch of his oil paintings, antique vases, and lots of other valuable items.

So why would someone being forced out against his will take such a long time to pack up his stuff? And why would all that stuff include all his own valuable possessions?

It's all there on video, in case you don't believe me:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/12/what-did-yanukovych-take-with-him-as-he-fled-his-mansion-paintings-guns-and-a-small-dog-according-to-new-video/

Now, Yanukovych's enormous ego was not going to allow for him to admit that he basically quit his position. (This is a guy who after all fashioned himself a golden toilet for his house and adorned the house with pictures of him, his mistress and cohorts dressed up as 18th Century aristocrats) So he claimed he was overthrown in a coup, shot at, etc. But the video tells a much different--and calmer--tale.

He left on his own accord at his own choosing, and took his sweet time in doing so.

And by the way, this was nothing like what happened in Haiti. Aristide alleges he was kidnapped and forced onto a plane against his own will to a destination not of his own choosing. Yanukovych was never accosted by anyone, and flew away in his personal fleet of choppers.

Xolodno

(6,396 posts)
44. The fact it took him three days doesn't prove..
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:49 PM
Sep 2014

...it wasn't a coup. If anything it makes the case for it even more. If he was leaving on his own accord....it would have took longer as he still left a lot of stuff behind....and I like how you missed this little gem:

&quot including, apparently, a large number of secret documents thrown into a lake)."

If you got a bunch of documents (and from I read from other articles, even more were found that didn't get completely burned, and plenty more still found in the file cabinets) that can incriminate you...you don't just dump them into the lake and you make damn sure they burn up well.

Shoot even the first line of that article says he fled. Fled from what? You said it yourself "Yes, Viktor Yanukovych spent three days packing up his goods, right at the very height of Maidan."

He left...the police switch sides. How perfectly opportune. Three days is not enough time to pack up a mansion and destroy evidence. Its just enough time pack up your most valuables (as you are seriously going to be without an income soon), because perhaps someone told him his protection was going to go bye bye on a certain date.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
48. You're playing fast and loose with the concept of a "coup" now.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:50 AM
Sep 2014

I'm not saying Yanukovych's hand wasn't forced to a certain extent. He didn't just give up the presidency because he was bored. He gave up the presidency because it was becoming obvious from the events in Maidan that the people hated him. And he could have stuck around and gambled as to what would happen next. Maybe he'd be arrested. Maybe he'd be Ceausesced. Or maybe he'd manage to ultimately squelch the protests and remain in power (after all, look at Assad still kicking it).

But here's the thing: he was a very rich man with a lot of valuable possessions. He could live very comfortably in a private, safe setting as a very rich man. And I believe during the height of Maidan, Putin offered him that sanctuary and that was his Door Number 2. And he took it.

Yeah, the efforts to destroy the evidence of his corruption came off as half-assed. But I think he assumed that if he reached a safe place in Russia, it wouldn't really matter that much. Putin hasn't given Snowden up to the U.S. yet. Do you really think he'd surrender Yanukovych to the Ukrainians, a people he doesn't even acknowledge to exist apart from Russia?

Here's the thing though: Even if he had not left the country and stuck around defiantly, and protesters would have broken through and surrounded his house and arrested him or killed him, that still wouldn't rise to the level of a coup as the word is defined. A revolution, yes, but a coup, no. And arguably what ultimately did happen was a revolution--a vast movement of people continued to protest until the leader was gone.

But there's no indication of a coup, whatsoever. There was no small, defined group that quickly moved in and seized power by somehow removing the leader against his will. Yanukovych made a decision not to stick around. It's a simple as that. Maybe it wasn't as cut and dry as Nixon giving a speech and resigning, but it's not completely dissimilar. Would you claim that the House Judiciary Committee committed a coup by putting pressure on Nixon to resign? Certainly not. Being pressured to abandon power is not the same as being forcibly removed against your will.

The police ceased fighting the protesters because Yanukovych was no longer giving them orders. Many of them were probably conflicted as it was, and once the orders stopped from Yanukvocyh, they probably saw no reason to continue their mission. It's not a coincidence that the police fell back on the night of February 21-22, which was the same night that Yanukovych left Kiev.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
50. No where near as "fast and loose" as the installation of the Bush/Cheney regime and the blowback
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:34 PM
Sep 2014

from unaccountability-there's a coup for ya to ponder on this 9-11, Tommy.



http://cheneywatch.org

K&R

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
6. Seriously, how many more sources, and there are now literally thousands across the globe
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:30 AM
Sep 2014

can you keep on trying to discredit? If you need an assessment of the IMF I can only think you have not been paying attention over the past several decades.

Are you seriously saying you don't know anything about the IMF and its criminally predatory history? The World Bank?

I thought of writing an OP on the IMF, but assumed it wasn't necessary on this forum.

That explains a lot, I have to say.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
8. Lot of people don't understand how the World Bank works or
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:38 AM
Sep 2014

the criminal background of the IMF or the fact that the current person in charge is under corruption charges and the last person in charge had to resign because of a sex scandal.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
9. I know, but here on DU, it's hard to believe there is a single person who needs an 'assessment'
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:50 AM
Sep 2014

of the IMF or the World Bank. I think history will probably record them as the among the most criminal Global Organizations of this historical period.

As for the sex scandal re the previous head of the IMF, it wasn't until he got a conscience about the practices of the IMF and their horrifically destructive effects on entire nations, that his sexual practices, shall we say, were of any import. Once he began to speak about diminishing the pressure the IMF places on countries who have made the mistake of accepting loans from them, he was warned that they 'had info on him which they would use against him'. That entire story revealed, for those who dug into it, a web of connections that was simply stunning. Note that as soon as he was replaced, the charges were dropped.

It's too long a story to even touch on here, and was never discussed here on DU where, shall we say, the atmosphere was not conducive to finding out the facts.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
10. Also that was back on DU2 when it was a less strict forum. We could talk all day
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:55 AM
Sep 2014

about the IMF. I guess some folks just don't pay attention to those topics or go back that far.

malaise

(269,086 posts)
13. It would be funny if it weren't so sad
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:42 AM
Sep 2014

Unbelievable.

It's the same pattern and this is a very credible source.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
25. I'm more than happy to read an honest, objective analysis of the IMF.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 09:33 AM
Sep 2014

I'm not here to either bolster or tear down the IMF....I have a pretty neutral opinion on them at the moment.

But this screed is neither honest nor objective. The author of this piece starts out by insisting that there was a "coup" in Ukraine back in February, an argument that is so easily debunked by demonstrable facts. And then he brings in the mob riot in Odessa (again, notably a two-sided fiasco) as if it were somehow the deeds of the Ukrainian government.

When even a notable Putin apologist has to correct the author about the name of the Ukrainian currency, you know it's a sloppily written piece.

The author's automatically lost all credibility as an objective analyst at this point. On to the next one.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
33. I believe you are speaking for yourself. The author's credentials
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:33 PM
Sep 2014

make it necessary for anyone who wants to discredit the article to have at least equal credentials and not just 'he's not credible' which has now been said about every single author, no matter how credible, who supports what this author is saying AND what people have observed themselves which corresponds with the now numerous credible sources who are all saying pretty much the same thing.

So far we have not seen anything credible that disputes all these sources, just 'no, it didn't happen' and that in the face of evidence released by whistle blowers and others who actually DID provide proof.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
36. A mere appeal to authority is a fallacious position.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 02:50 PM
Sep 2014

I don't need to be the President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends and be some Wall Street analyst to understand what I have seen and read on the news regarding the events in Ukraine in February 2014. It's all quite simple--demonstrable evidence shows that Victor Yanukovych left Ukraine voluntarily and under his own willpower, that it was his own calculated decision to leave. Hence, the label of a "coup" is highly inaccurate, given that the evidence does not conform to the accepted definition of the term.

If you are arguing that there was a coup, it is your burden to prove, not mine. You are the one pushing the conspiracy theory that the west conspired with ultranationalists and yada yada yada Yanukoych must have been forcibly removed from power. To date, all I've heard in support of this theory is that Valerie Nuland handed out cookies at Maidan, Valerie Nuland had a telephone conversation weeks before Yanukovych left Ukraine, and John McCain visited Kyiv months before Yanukovych left Ukraine. None of this in the least bit proves that he was forcibly removed from power against his will by a small, identifiable conspiring group.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. Excellent article, thank you. This was all about the IMF V Ukraine being independent of the
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:35 AM
Sep 2014

Global Money Cartels. And it appears most sentient human beings across the globe understood it from the beginning.

The question I have is WHY were they willing to so discredit themselves so publicly by associating, again so publicly, with such nefarious characters in Kiev. And to be so blatant in pushing the coup in Kiev. Generally they operate in a far more stealthy manner. It gives the impression that they are desperate. That there is something we don't know yet.

And they appear to be flailing, not sure of what to do to accomplish their goal. Perhaps it's because there is so much more sunlight on their activities these days than in the past, when we in the First World were unaware to a great extent. of what they were up to.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. Larry Summers to address Yalta European Strategy (YES) conference, being held in Kiev this year...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 08:14 AM
Sep 2014

He's like a vampire of voodoo economics: Sunlight lands on the guy but it doesn't stick.



The Globalizer Who Came In From the Cold

Joe Stiglitz: Today's Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics

Wednesday, October 10, 2001
by Greg Palast

The World Bank's former Chief Economist's accusations are eye-popping - including how the IMF and US Treasury fixed the Russian elections

"It has condemned people to death," the former apparatchik told me. This was like a scene out of Le Carre. The brilliant old agent comes in from the cold, crosses to our side, and in hours of debriefing, empties his memory of horrors committed in the name of a political ideology he now realizes has gone rotten.

And here before me was a far bigger catch than some used Cold War spy. Joseph Stiglitz was Chief Economist of the World Bank. To a great extent, the new world economic order was his theory come to life.

I "debriefed" Stigltiz over several days, at Cambridge University, in a London hotel and finally in Washington in April 2001 during the big confab of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. But instead of chairing the meetings of ministers and central bankers, Stiglitz was kept exiled safely behind the blue police cordons, the same as the nuns carrying a large wooden cross, the Bolivian union leaders, the parents of AIDS victims and the other 'anti-globalization' protesters. The ultimate insider was now on the outside.

In 1999 the World Bank fired Stiglitz. He was not allowed quiet retirement; US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, I'm told, demanded a public excommunication for Stiglitz' having expressed his first mild dissent from globalization World Bank style.

Here in Washington we completed the last of several hours of exclusive interviews for The Observer and BBC TV's Newsnight about the real, often hidden, workings of the IMF, World Bank, and the bank's 51% owner, the US Treasury.

And here, from sources unnamable (not Stiglitz), we obtained a cache of documents marked, "confidential," "restricted," and "not otherwise (to be) disclosed without World Bank authorization."

Stiglitz helped translate one from bureaucratise, a "Country Assistance Strategy." There's an Assistance Strategy for every poorer nation, designed, says the World Bank, after careful in-country investigation. But according to insider Stiglitz, the Bank's staff 'investigation' consists of close inspection of a nation's 5-star hotels. It concludes with the Bank staff meeting some begging, busted finance minister who is handed a 'restructuring agreement' pre-drafted for his 'voluntary' signature (I have a selection of these).

Each nation's economy is individually analyzed, then, says Stiglitz, the Bank hands every minister the same exact four-step program.

Step One is Privatization - which Stiglitz said could more accurately be called, 'Briberization.' Rather than object to the sell-offs of state industries, he said national leaders - using the World Bank's demands to silence local critics - happily flogged their electricity and water companies. "You could see their eyes widen" at the prospect of 10% commissions paid to Swiss bank accounts for simply shaving a few billion off the sale price of national assets.

And the US government knew it, charges Stiglitz, at least in the case of the biggest 'briberization' of all, the 1995 Russian sell-off. "The US Treasury view was this was great as we wanted Yeltsin re-elected. We don't care if it's a corrupt election. We want the money to go to Yeltzin" via kick-backs for his campaign.

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/



Others who have addressed YES include leading United States politicians and business people, especially those in the extraction industries cough Condoleeza Chevron.

MattSh

(3,714 posts)
12. The article is right on the mark...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:42 AM
Sep 2014

But the Ukraine currency is not the hernia. It's the hryvnya. They really need to be more careful with stuff like this.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
14. The force behind the creation of the IMF and World Bank - FDR. Who wants out of both -
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:01 AM
Sep 2014

the Texas GOP and the John Birch Society among others.

To be fair they want out of the UN and every other international organization and agreement because they limit precious US sovereignty. (Of course in their eyes that sovereignty includes unilateral wars, polluting at will, unlimited international arms sales, etc.)

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
39. The IMF and World Bank long ago strayed from anything they were intended for originally.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:50 PM
Sep 2014

Even insiders have publicly condemned their predatory practices in many nations, only to be dismissed or threatened.

Whatever the original intention of the IMF, it is far from a benign institution whose goal is to help struggling nations stabilize their economies. The WB and the IMF are now merely tools of the Global Power Structure forcing nations into impossible to repay, debt, at which point they are forced into putting their national assets on the auction block where the rich and powerful can snap them up at bargain basement prices.

It's time to disband these predatory vulturous institutions before the buy up, as they are in the process of doing, the First World having already destroyed so many Third World nations.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
41. Then who loans money to countries that need it? Rich countries, rich corporations, rich
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 05:29 PM
Sep 2014

individuals. I can't imagine any of them would do so without major strings attached. That may have been what FDR was trying to get away from.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
45. Take Ukraine. The government had a choice, take the IMF loans which have MAJOR strings
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 11:01 PM
Sep 2014

attached, see Greece for one of the latest examples, or take the Russian loan which had far fewer strings attached and far less interest. Naturally the Govt chose the more appealing loan. And then the Western backed protesters staged a coup. THAT is what the IMF supporters do. See Chile and Argentina and so many other nations.

Who would issue loans? Any country looking for a good investment. China eg. We are indebted to China, why not Ukraine? But someone doesn't want Ukraine to have any choice and so there was a coup and then that government launched a military assault on the SE part of the country who also didn't want to be enslaved to the IMF.

They are pretty ruthless these Global Power Hungry Entities.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
47. Perhaps Yanukovich made a wise choice but he was reversing a campaign pledge. People cared.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:48 AM
Sep 2014

From my understanding of the deals on offer, I can understand that Yanukovich may thought that Russia's offer was better for Ukraine. Russia had made it clear that there was a big downside if Ukraine chose a trade deal with the EU and Russia terms were indeed more favorable, at least in the short terms - which is all politicians care about.

The real problem he had was that he had campaigned for president on a platform of seeking closer integration with Europe rather than with Russia. Did he really mean that during the campaign or was he just saying something that he thought people wanted to hear? (He would not be the first politician to say something that he did not believe just to get elected.)

He had every 'right' to change his mind about a policy he had campaigned on, just as Obama and all politicians and political leaders seems to think they have. Of course, citizens had every right to express their discontent about his policy reversal, just as our voters do. Either voters felt more deeply about the issue than Mr. Yanukovich understood or he simply did not do a good job of explaining why the Russian offer was superior and he was reversing his previous pledge.

The massive crowds of protesters were not just Western-backed protesters unless you assume that Ukrainians don't care enough about their country to protest political decision they don't agree with. They protested in Kiev throughout a Ukrainian winter - which is not an endeavor for the faint of heart.

And they did not stage a coup. Mr. Yanukovich did not have to leave but chose to do so and flee to Russia with his money. (Perhaps coincidentally, his departure for Russia provided the pretext for the chain of events that led to Russian annexing Crimea. Funny how that worked out.) He still controlled the army and security forces, including the Berkut, when he left. The demonstrators had none of the tanks, mortars, artillery, anti-aircraft missiles and other military equipment that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have. He was in no danger and could still be in Kiev governing until December elections which is what he had agreed to do.



Who would issue loans? Any country looking for a good investment. China eg. We are indebted to China, why not Ukraine?

In December 2013:

China has already given Ukraine $10 billion in loans, Reuters reported, citing Volodymyr Fesenko of Ukraine’s Penta think-tank.

Although Russia has repeatedly warned Kiev it will end trade benefits if it signs an association deal with the EU, Ukraine remains caught between Russia and the EU. Ukraine will send delegations to both the EU and Moscow “to restore economic trade relations,” Prime Minister Azarov said Tuesday.

http://rt.com/business/ukraine-china-loan-yanukovych-763/

Ukraine has borrowed $10 billion from China as of last December. They weren't getting any more.

In February 2014:

China sues Ukraine for breach of US$3b loan-for-grain agreement

China is seeking compensation of US$3 billion from Ukraine for the breach of a loans-for-grain contract signed in 2012, Russian media reported yesterday

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1435976/china-sues-ukraine-breach-us3b-loan-grain-agreement

It looks to me like China was not likely to loan Ukraine any more money. So it probably came down to Russia or the EU/IMF.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
15. Vladimir Putin said he could "take Kiev in two weeks”
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:03 AM
Sep 2014
The Kremlin has confirmed president Vladimir Putin said he could "take Kiev in two weeks”, in remarks made to the outgoing president of the European commission.

However, a Russian official this morning complained Mr Barroso had breached confidentiality when he quoted Mr Putin, saying the statement was "quoted out of context and carried a completely different meaning".

Mr Putin said to Jose Manuel Barroso, who then passed the Russian leader’s remarks on to European leaders at the Nato summit over the weekend, “If I want, I take Kiev in two weeks".

Mr Barroso allegedly revealed Mr Putin’s threat after Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko, who yesterday accused Russia of “direct and undisguised aggression”, had left the summit table.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ukraine-crisis-russian-president-vladimir-putin-claims-he-can-take-kiev-in-two-weeks-9705449.html


mathematic

(1,439 posts)
16. Ukraine prefers to face repossession by the west than repossession by russia
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:52 AM
Sep 2014

Big surprise! The latter involves tanks, the former sternly worded letters.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
40. Me too, which is why I would avoid any loans from the IMF, where that is their very goal, to
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:53 PM
Sep 2014

force nations into debt they cannot pay off, then take their national assets and sell them at bargain basement prices to their buddies, leaving countries in economic ruin. See S.A. in the seventies, eighties eg and Europe, see Greece right now, Spain, Ireland, Portugal all of whom have had 'austerity' forced on them, their national companies forced into privatization, and their sovereignty almost gone.

Ukraine is simply the next victim of the IMF.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,185 posts)
24. "You don't understand.....that Ukraine is not even a state."
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 09:28 AM
Sep 2014

Why would anyone in their honest mind want to do business with a leader of another country who denies the very existence of your own country?

That's madness.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
46. The Kamikaze Economics and Politics of Forcing Austerity on the Ukraine
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:09 AM
Sep 2014

Posted on April 5, 2014 by Devin Smith | 6 Comments
By William K. Black

We all understand why Russia is waging economic war on the Ukraine, but why is Obama doing so? The New York Time’ web site has posted a remarkable Reuters story (dated April 5, 2014) entitled “Ukraine PM Says Will Stick to Austerity Despite Moscow Pressure.”

“The Kiev government will stick to unpopular austerity measures ‘as the price of independence’ as Russia steps up pressure on Ukraine to destabilise it, including by raising the price of gas, Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk told Reuters.”


“Unpopular austerity measures” are, of course, among the best things Ukraine can do to aid Russia’s effort to “destabilize” the Ukraine. Indeed, Yatseniuk admits this point later in the article.

“The subtext of Russia’s message to Ukraine’s Russian-speaking population, he said, was that they would enjoy higher living standards in Russia, with higher wages and better pensions and without the austerity that the Kiev government was now offering.

The subtext of Russia’s message to Ukraine’s Russian-speaking population, he said, was that they would enjoy higher living standards in Russia, with higher wages and better pensions and without the austerity that the Kiev government was now offering.

‘They’re saying: if you go to Russia, you’ll be happy, smiling, and not living in a Western hell,’ he said.

‘They (the Russians) are trying to compensate (for the Western sanctions). But we can pay the price of independence,’ he said, with financial support from the West.”


So, our strategy is to play into Putin’s hands by inflicting austerity and turning the Ukraine into “a Western hell.” Not to worry says our man in Kiev, because he’s sure that ten million ethnically-Russian citizens of Ukraine will gladly “pay the price of independence” to live in “a Western hell.” That strategy seems suicidal. Indeed, Yatseiuk emphasizes that he knows the strategy he is following is suicidal.

SNIP...

Conclusion

The Ukraine faces severe problems beyond Russia and its energy dependence on Russia. It has an enormous informal business sector because it is so difficult to start a legitimate business. Ecuador recently adopted a law, and new technology, to make it radically faster to start a legitimate small business. This is great for entrepreneurs, growth, reduced corruption, and collecting taxes. It is a radical reform that people of all political stripes can support. Similarly, ant-fraud and corruption efforts can save the Ukraine billions of dollars and spur growth. President Obama could develop an aid, stimulus, debt relief, and reform package for the Ukraine based on ideas like this that would that have broad appeal and help the working class and entrepreneurs. It would also be good for peace and security without being hostile to anyone. Instead, we are committing kamikaze capitalism that is so crazy that it should be criminal.

SOUIRCE: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/04/kamikaze-economics-politics-forcing-austerity-ukraine.html

Now the IMF is saying Ukraine will need another $19 Billion to pay off the initial $17 Billion. IMF loans and international finance are just like student loans: Countries that can't pay them back are just as screwed -- totally.
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