David Cameron's epitaph: The Last PM of the UK

[denem]

Scottish people would have voted for 'devo max'. That's why it's not an option. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/scottish-independence-devo-max-referendum

David Cameron gave Scotland an all or nothing choice - Vote for Independence or the status quo. The Scottish National Party wanted a vote on ‘Devolution Max’, a devolution of all powers excepting defence, foreign policy, currency and banking. Cameron refused. He bet the UK, and he looks like losing.

The Scottish people want independence - from Thatcherism. Cameron has given them only one way out. He himself brought back Thatcherism with a vengeance - tax cuts for the rich, a bedroom tax for those on welfare, hunger in the streets, privatisation of the NHS and, of course, ‘Austerity’, crippling cuts to government services. Scotland never agreed with Thatcherism, not now, not then, not ever.

But, the Tory Goons and Stooges kept on insisting, if you don’t want the Thatcher Government Of The Day, you must give up Citizenship, Sterling, Europe, working rights, the Kingdom. There Is No Alternative. Scotland knows Thatcherism back to front. And they despise its apologists.

Now at the last minute, Cameron is talking about more devolution. He has probably nailed his coffin shut right there. Heck of a job Davey. That Scottish Doctor Who is an alien, cancel his passport.

[factsarenotfair]

1. Won't Scottish independence make England more rightwing?

Yikes!

[pampango]

4. It would be like liberal California becoming independent. Good for Californians. Not so good for

the rest of us.

California would become a successful, liberal country but the rest of the US would then have a more conservative electorate on balance without California's liberal voters. Fortunately for the rest of us, California liberals don't have an independence option like Scotland has.

[factsarenotfair]

10. That's what I thought, and it seems to me it might not be good for the world.

David Cameron would be even MORE evil.

[denem]

11. So, you would say to a Scott,

Stay in, and gamble on Cameron not being re-elected in 2015. I can see the attraction of voting to end Tory rule in Scotland now, and once and for all.

[factsarenotfair]

12. No, I would say get away from the monsters.

And then I hope they would be an example to the English that liberal government is better than rightwing government.

[tblue37]

14. Well, our red states and the country in general never seem to

learn from the success of states like California., so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[factsarenotfair]

15. Good point, but I'm a little more hopeful about the UK situation since religion isn't involved. n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

21. I think you should define "red state"

Just remember, California gave us both Nixon and Reagan, two "gifts" that keep on giving-- to the 1%. And over the past 48 years, the state has elected some real bozos as governors, including Ronald Reagan, George Deukmejian, Pete Wilson and Arnold Schwarzenegger. In fact, those four Republican governors together account for 2/3 of those 48 years. So while California might ostensibly be a "blue" state because it tends to favor Democratic presidential candidates, for the governorship it has tended to be a reactionary "red" state.

[tblue37]

25. I am actually thinking of the present moment. After the Republicans

tanked everything everywhere, California elected a Democratic governor and, even more important, a strong Dem majority in the California legislature. By following liberal principles, the CA Dems turned a deficit into a good surplus. Meanwhile, in Kansas (where I live), even "moderate" (I.e., regular *conservative*) Republicans were not sufficiently extreme for the super right wingers, so the primaried long term "moderate" Repubs out and filled the legislature with a big majority of extremely right wing Repubs. They also elected the most right wing administration imaginable, turning Kansas into Brownbackistan and thus tanking our economy to the point where our state's credit rating has been downgraded.

Even though the credit rating agency says that the extreme tax cuts--for the *wealthy* and for corporations, but NOT for the poor or middle class!--are the main reason for the downgraded credit rating, since they mean revenue will continue to fall, not recover, Brownback insists that his policies and tax cuts are not the reason our economy and credit rating are suffering. He says it's all the fault of Obama's economic policies, even though other states are seeing the job growth that KS is not seeing, and states like CA are improving economically under the same national economy, and so is the stock market.

Now, I realize that a soaring stock market and an increase in crappy, underpaid jobs is not helping the people who need help recovering from the crash, but the Repubs use those as markers of a robust economy. Also, though deficit cutting is foolish policy in a recession or depression, the Repubs believe cutting the deficit to be a major sign of good economic policy, and Obama has cut the deficit by 70%.

So according to *their own* measures of sound economic policy, Obama's national policies and the economies of states like CA are doing *waaaay* better than the economy of KS, which has followed the conservative playbook more religiously than any other state.

The obvious conclusion should be that liberal Dem policies in CA are working a whole lot better that conservative Dem policies in KS, but somehow Repubs manage to ignore the self-evident and cling to their tax-cutting, supply-side fundamentalist religion.

[MADem]

26. That's a fair point--a real mixed bag, there. And let's not forget the legislature....

Yes, they've given us Boxer, and (though some would argue about her bona fides) Feinstein, they've also given us Issa and that asshole Duke Cunningham--two who did a LOT of damage.

[malaise]

2. Please please please please

That would be a fitting end for this RW buffoon.

[hifiguy]

3. Good,

but there's no reason to diss Doctor Who by comparing him - in any regeneration - with Cameron.

Don't mess with the Scots.

[denem]

6. In 2010 Cameron ran as a vanilla popularist,

a bit like this guy

[hifiguy]

7. I remember that, as I was listening to a lot of the Beeb's

world service at the time. Then he turned into a Thatcherite after getting elected.

[denem]

8. Slaughtered 10% of the population, the rest worked as slaves.

Insane, but always a Decisive Leader

[hifiguy]

9. Often wrong,

never in doubt. Reminds me of Chimpoleon.

[tularetom]

5. Looks like they got Cameron by his tiny testicles

I hope they act like Scots and don't let the bastard wiggle out of the jam he put himself in.

[denem]

17. Scots line up to toss the Cameron?

[JI7]

13. on the issue of defense , it would be in the interest of the British to defend Scotland

if there ever was a foreign threat to scotland. and this is very unlikely also . so i don't think this issue is that important.

not informed enough on currency and banking how about the euro ? i'm not informed enough in this area to say much.

[denem]

16. If Scotland becomes independent, it will have to apply

For membership of the EU, and after that, membership of the Euro-Zone if it chooses. Scotland would like to continue using the pound, but the Tories have promised to block that through the Bank of England. Without the BoE acting as a reserve, Scotland would have to go its own way, or suffer a doomsday run on their banks.

The fact that the Scottish people are prepared give up the pound shows how serious they are about ending Tory Rule from London.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

27. I agree with Krugman

They don't want London rule, but they'll continue to allow the EU to gain more and more control over them. Nuts.

[Nye Bevan]

18. Paul Krugman expects an independent Scotland to be "Spain, without the sunshine".

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/paul_krugman_on_scottish_independence_the_risks_are_huge/

Becoming independent while keeping the pound could be disastrous.

[denem]

19. Scotland has to weigh the potential monetary disaster with

the actual, soul destroying disasters of Tory rule from London, namely, Thatcher 1979-80, and Cameron 2009-14. Half of Scotland's children live below the official poverty line. The Tories are still favoured to win another five years in 2015. It's difficult. (BTW, Tory PM John Major was a joke and counts for nothing)

[Nye Bevan]

20. Surely Cameron must be doing something right

if he is the favorite to win next year even with Scotland in the UK? Or is it just that the opposition is weak?

[denem]

22. The opposition is weak,

the Labour Leader, Ed Milliband, is unpopular, the UK economy has recovered, and the Tories are running the 'Morning in Britain' BS. Vast swathes of the country have been decimated - again - even more so than in the US, but those seats are mostly Labour seats. It's a bit like the GOP keeping the House in 2012.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. He's not actually the favourite to win next year

all the polling shows a pretty consistent Labour lead and has done for some time.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poll-labour-set-to-win-the-election--but-people-still-dont-like-ed-miliband-9634140.html

And the most recent: http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/09/update-labour-lead-5/

If Scotland stays in the Union then it'll be a Labour government after the next election, and Boris Johnson is probably the next Tory leader (since he's being parachuted into a safe seat).

[denem]

24. I stand corrected,

always the pessimist. What will UKIP call themselves? NFIP?