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kpete

(71,997 posts)
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:13 AM Sep 2014

Dear Mr. Obama, Mr. Biden and Prime Minister David Cameron of the United Kingdom: before you launch

Dear Mr. Obama, Mr. Biden and Prime Minister David Cameron of the United Kingdom: before you launch a new global war on terror and another coalition of countries to fight ISIS, please note that the last three decades of your global war on terror have sparked the greatest expansion of Islamist militancy and terrorism in modern history. This is partly, maybe largely, because your military actions in Islamic lands usually destabilize those lands, allowing your enemies to organize and take root, and also provide the greatest magnet that attracts mostly fringe and lost young men to give meaning to their lives by joining what they see as a defensive jihad to save Islamic societies from your aggression.

Military action certainly has some role in a wider political, economic and social assault on freak extremists and terrorists like Al-Qaeda and their derivatives such as ISIS. Yet if military strikes after three decades have only expanded the reach and territorial control of these movements, isn’t it about time that we all resort to rational analysis to address the root causes of this threat that haunts us, instead of falling back on the failed legacy of George W. Bush – vintage sophomoric emotional jingoism and flag-waving militarism that only demean the otherwise fine values of the American flag? When does logic play a role in this process? When does adult intellectual and analytical maturity trump the destructive consequences of the childlike impulsiveness of perplexed politicians who need to show their manhood on the global stage?

Al-Qaeda, ISIS and many other such groups emerged from a modern historical process that combined the brutality and developmental failures of Arab-Asian dictatorships with nonstop American-Western-Israeli-Russian aggression in Islamic-majority lands. GWOT, with its armed invasions, regime changes, drone fleets and other means, has only sustained and even expanded the Al-Qaeda- ISIS phenomenon, because the twin drivers of Arab-Asian autocracy and foreign aggression remain virtually untouched.

A “coalition of the willing” that mainly comprises Anglo-American militaries that shatter Arab lands, along with Arab and Asian autocrats in whose jails the seeds of Al-Qaeda were incubated in the 1980s, is not a serious venture to fight Islamist military and extremism. Such a combination of states is the very force that has given birth and sustenance to them.



Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Opinion/Columnist/2014/Sep-06/269713-avoid-a-rerun-of-the-war-on-terror.ashx#ixzz3CdgtMvbT

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dear Mr. Obama, Mr. Biden and Prime Minister David Cameron of the United Kingdom: before you launch (Original Post) kpete Sep 2014 OP
+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #1
Cooperation with Iran is also going to happen geek tragedy Sep 2014 #2
oh, c'mon. just coz it's never worked before doesn't mean it won't work this time... KG Sep 2014 #3
The problem with this article is that it fails to identify the real terrorists malaise Sep 2014 #4
Stop it! L0oniX Sep 2014 #6
So in your mind ISIS are not the real terrorists geek tragedy Sep 2014 #8
Simple questions malaise Sep 2014 #9
But your attitutde of "I don't care what happens over there" doesn't always work out well muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #22
Reagan was a terrorist, that is no excuse to say that ISIS has a "genuine" reason geek tragedy Sep 2014 #24
It all depends on your perspective doesn't it? I suppose you really believe that A Simple Game Sep 2014 #23
The US invasion was an act of evil. So is everything ISIS has done. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #25
Jury results pintobean Sep 2014 #12
I am not by any means pro-ISIS malaise Sep 2014 #14
I didn't think you were. pintobean Sep 2014 #18
My bad - I was actually responding to the reason for the alert malaise Sep 2014 #20
How many terrorists of yesterday are respected leaders today? I agree with that, but ISIS makes Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #13
You can't make money off war unless you perpetuate it. nt valerief Sep 2014 #5
Right on!! pocoloco Sep 2014 #26
OFFS ...everyone knows our economy or what's left of it is vitally dependent on war. L0oniX Sep 2014 #7
Absolute BS oberliner Sep 2014 #10
+1 flamingdem Sep 2014 #11
You forget the West colonized the entire region and carved it up with no regard for local folk.... Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #15
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Sep 2014 #16
I know what you mean....it is the perpetual indignation, when their deflections are revealed that is Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #17
Very well said sub.theory Sep 2014 #21
"three decades of your global war on terror" Gore1FL Sep 2014 #19
DURec leftstreet Sep 2014 #27
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
2. Cooperation with Iran is also going to happen
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:28 AM
Sep 2014

but there aren't press releases about it .

Difference between helping Iraq's government and trying to overthrow it.

malaise

(269,067 posts)
4. The problem with this article is that it fails to identify the real terrorists
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:33 AM
Sep 2014

the Western war criminals who ilegally invaded and occupied Iraq.

If the US had been invaded and occupied and so many of its citizens had been slaughtered, I wouldn't dare call one of those resisting the outsiders a terrorist - just saying.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. So in your mind ISIS are not the real terrorists
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:58 AM
Sep 2014

but rather anti -imperialist freedom fighters?

Note that those in question are killing other Arabs and Muslims based on religious divisions not against invaders, FYI.

malaise

(269,067 posts)
9. Simple questions
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:06 AM
Sep 2014

Who killed the American nuns in El Salvador in December 1980 - was it the US backed military government? Who killed the archbishop earlier that year?
What was the response from Reagan, GHW Bush et al and of course your corporate media?

I don't give a flying fugg about ISIS - all I know is anyone who is resisting the West after what was done to that region by Bushco, Blair et al has a genuine reason to fight back. Evil always breeds more evil.
This entire mess was created by your previous government and their allies - and we did warn them. They will not now attempt to paint one set of persons as evil. Go and check the record of Blackwater and other corporate mercenaries paid for by American taxpayers.

Spare me please - I an neither young nor naive.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,322 posts)
22. But your attitutde of "I don't care what happens over there" doesn't always work out well
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:12 PM
Sep 2014

People didn't care about the massacres in Rwanda. They developed into genocide. And I do think ISIS is comparable to that - they carry out mass murders based on people's religion.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
24. Reagan was a terrorist, that is no excuse to say that ISIS has a "genuine" reason
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:59 PM
Sep 2014

to do what they're doing.

It is not hypocritical to condemn Reagan and ISIS.

It is hypocritical to condemn Reagan but not ISIS.

Perhaps you should educate yourself about ISIS before deciding you don't care about the many non-Westerners they're victimizing.

Reflexive support of the West's enemies is not progressive, it's reactionary.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
23. It all depends on your perspective doesn't it? I suppose you really believe that
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:12 PM
Sep 2014

the United States invading Iraq is all that much better than ISIS invading Iraq. We did have such good reasons, didn't we? ISIS is as much an army as the United States was. We had Shock and Awe, Blackwater, and Abu Ghraib and they have their beheadings, more a difference of method I would say. If you are keeping score, I think we are still way ahead. I think it is the depleted uranium that gives us the edge, it is the gift that keeps on giving. Well that and the fact that they are one invasion behind us, we have done it twice, can I here a third time? Oh, that reminds me, do you remember when we slaughtered the Iraq army in the first war when they were retreating, good times those, eh?

By the way, do you think ISIS would be able to invade Iraq if Saddam was still in power? Do you feel as I do that we break everything we touch in the middle east, let's not even talk about Central and South America. Do you believe Americans have a hard time admitting when they make mistakes?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
25. The US invasion was an act of evil. So is everything ISIS has done.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:01 PM
Sep 2014

Condemening one does not mean excusing the other.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
12. Jury results
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:16 AM
Sep 2014

I was #3

On Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

The problem with this article is that it fails to identify the real terrorists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5499581

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pro--ISIS nonsense has no place on a civilized message board, let alone a progressive one. ISIS are terrorists who target and try to enslave Muslims, not resistance fighters resisting colonialist evildoers.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:10 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: argue this on in the thread.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't agree with the opinion expressed, but it's not hide-worthy.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I would like to alert on the alerter........
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I detest ISIS and I disagree with this post, but it is not against community standards.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I love this poster but this a horrible thing to say.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

malaise

(269,067 posts)
14. I am not by any means pro-ISIS
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:23 AM
Sep 2014

I am just anti BS. I know nothing about ISIS except what is being spewed in the Western media.
What I do know is that divide and rule never works and people always fight back.

I also know something else - many persons jumping on this wagon were not so willing to hop on board when Bushco was the invader.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
18. I didn't think you were.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:38 AM
Sep 2014

I understand that your reply was probably meant for anyone reading the thread, and not me specifically. I just posted the results because it was a silly alert that I thought would go 0-7 to leave it.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
13. How many terrorists of yesterday are respected leaders today? I agree with that, but ISIS makes
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:20 AM
Sep 2014

for a special category of religion mixed with terror, it is measured in pathological terms, not political.

 

pocoloco

(3,180 posts)
26. Right on!!
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:01 PM
Sep 2014

Some thought might be given to where the sudden upstart ISIS received it's seed money.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
10. Absolute BS
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:07 AM
Sep 2014

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

The entire premise of this article is a complete and total lie.

Groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS did not have its seeds in the 1980s and Anglo-American states is not the force that gave birth to them. This author knows that and is deliberately feeding the false narrative of "blame the West" for everything these groups are doing.

Al-Qaeda and ISIS were born from The Muslim Brotherhood which has been around since the 1920s with membership quickly growing to the millions and a devotion to an ideology of the creation of an Islamic Caliphate wherein the Koran is the basis for all societal laws (with the most far-right, conservative interpretation of the Koran being implemented).

And of course this is all part of a desire to hearken back to a time when the entire middle east was ruled by an ever expanding colonial Muslim Caliphate that imposed its will across the region for centuries.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
11. +1
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:12 AM
Sep 2014

Religious wars cannot be blamed on the West although of course it is a factor it's not the main one

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
15. You forget the West colonized the entire region and carved it up with no regard for local folk....
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:24 AM
Sep 2014

Only one country in the region has had PM's and Presidents elected who were former proud terrorists.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
17. I know what you mean....it is the perpetual indignation, when their deflections are revealed that is
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:26 AM
Sep 2014

the best.

sub.theory

(652 posts)
21. Very well said
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:11 PM
Sep 2014

Absolutely spot on. There are many things that the US can be blamed for in the Middle East (propping up brutal dictators, invading countries under false pretenses, etc.), but one thing the US can't be blamed for is the rise of salafist jihadi terrorism. That is entirely home grown. And it's roots really do go back long into the past. I would argue even before the Muslim Brotherhood to the founder of Wahhabism, Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, born in 1703 - long before any European colonization. This was the age of the Ottomans. Wahhab was as fanatical as it gets. A fundamentalist's fundamentalist. And it is his violent, hateful, utterly intolerant ideology that has given rise to so many of today's Islamic terrorists. Wahhabism is also the official state religion in Saudi Arabia.

This article in The Huffington Post explains in much more detail about Wahhab and how his ideology gave rise to salafist terrorism, and I post the following excerpt from it. I recommend reading it in full.


Like Taymiyyah before him, Abd al-Wahhab believed that the period of the Prophet Muhammad's stay in Medina was the ideal of Muslim society (the "best of times&quot , to which all Muslims should aspire to emulate (this, essentially, is Salafism).

Taymiyyah had declared war on Shi'ism, Sufism and Greek philosophy. He spoke out, too against visiting the grave of the prophet and the celebration of his birthday, declaring that all such behavior represented mere imitation of the Christian worship of Jesus as God (i.e. idolatry). Abd al-Wahhab assimilated all this earlier teaching, stating that "any doubt or hesitation" on the part of a believer in respect to his or her acknowledging this particular interpretation of Islam should "deprive a man of immunity of his property and his life."

One of the main tenets of Abd al-Wahhab's doctrine has become the key idea of takfir. Under the takfiri doctrine, Abd al-Wahhab and his followers could deem fellow Muslims infidels should they engage in activities that in any way could be said to encroach on the sovereignty of the absolute Authority (that is, the King). Abd al-Wahhab denounced all Muslims who honored the dead, saints, or angels. He held that such sentiments detracted from the complete subservience one must feel towards God, and only God. Wahhabi Islam thus bans any prayer to saints and dead loved ones, pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques, religious festivals celebrating saints, the honoring of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad's birthday, and even prohibits the use of gravestones when burying the dead.

"Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote. "

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
19. "three decades of your global war on terror"
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:55 AM
Sep 2014

They must have a different calendar than mine. By my count it's less than 2. Of course depending on how it's defined it's more like 7. Arguably it's measurable in centuries.

The fundamental argument the article relies on is the equating of defending someone and invading someone. I wou,ld argue that this is in error. There are merits to stopping genocidal purges.

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