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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 09:35 AM Aug 2014

Do not do to others what is abhorrent to you.

This is one of the corollaries to the Golden rule, and the recent reclining airline seat incident brings it to mind. Like most people, I very much dislike being in a coach seat in an airline and having the person in front of me recline their seat. However, my reaction is not to be angry with the person who has reclined. It's a feature of the seats on that plane. I dislike it, but would not insist that the person in front of me put their seat in the upright position.

Instead, I respond by never, ever reclining my seat, because I know that it will annoy the person behind me. I cannot control the acts of others, but I can control my own acts. I will not do something if having the same thing done to me annoys me. Fortunately, many others also follow that rule and refrain from reclining their seats, too.

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do not do to others what is abhorrent to you. (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2014 OP
I find this true driving a car. safeinOhio Aug 2014 #1
And THIS ^ is what makes DU suck Glitterati Aug 2014 #2
Why would anyone be a member of a site they feel sucks? nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #53
Yes. Driving a car requires the same sort of MineralMan Aug 2014 #3
Yes, sometimes you have to change for others Maeve Aug 2014 #7
Yup. It's really pretty simple if you're paying attention. MineralMan Aug 2014 #9
I can't believe people get so annoyed by a seat in front of them leaning two inches back. redqueen Aug 2014 #4
Perhaps you should re-think your strategies Glitterati Aug 2014 #5
Or perhaps not. Focusing on first world problems, rather MineralMan Aug 2014 #8
It's really NOT about airline seats Glitterati Aug 2014 #10
And yet, flights are full. Airlines are businesses. MineralMan Aug 2014 #13
ROFL Glitterati Aug 2014 #18
If you do not fly, I can't see why you'd be concerned. MineralMan Aug 2014 #19
100% right on. safeinOhio Aug 2014 #21
Airlines do not cancel flights that are not full. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2014 #77
I hardly think anyone is trying to disrespect you by reclining their seat. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #56
Reading comprehension Glitterati Aug 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Live and Learn Aug 2014 #60
It is not so much a question of comprehension but Live and Learn Aug 2014 #65
Yes, that's true. MineralMan Aug 2014 #6
They're probably first-time flyers. redqueen Aug 2014 #11
That could be. Or they may just be so self-oriented MineralMan Aug 2014 #14
Then you must not have knees that are sunk into the seat in front of you. Some people do. pnwmom Aug 2014 #28
Your complaint should be to the airlines and the lack of space not your fellow Live and Learn Aug 2014 #57
Same here. meaculpa2011 Aug 2014 #35
+1 And, some people may find sitting at a 90 degree angle Live and Learn Aug 2014 #54
It depends on how tall you are. hifiguy Aug 2014 #63
Exactly. raouldukelives Aug 2014 #12
Everyone is in a death spiral the minute they are born. MineralMan Aug 2014 #15
And thanks to the efforts of investors. raouldukelives Aug 2014 #51
Maybe. Maybe not. MineralMan Aug 2014 #62
Good Post Gothmog Aug 2014 #16
Thanks. I appreciate that. MineralMan Aug 2014 #17
This is a formulation of a High Holy day sermon that we get every other year Gothmog Aug 2014 #20
I automatically assume that the person in front of me is going to recline Art_from_Ark Aug 2014 #22
I don't assume that. In fact, on my last few flights where reclining MineralMan Aug 2014 #25
You can travel without reclining. You just prefer not to. pnwmom Aug 2014 #29
I got deep vein thrombosis sitting in traffic. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #31
Happened to me on a cross-country flight. pnwmom Aug 2014 #33
So people that have back problems don't count but Live and Learn Aug 2014 #59
On the day I got the DVT, the seat belt sign was on for most of the flight. pnwmom Aug 2014 #71
Agreed. I am surprised the airlines aren't more accommodating to letting Live and Learn Aug 2014 #73
Except, the seats are designed to be reclined. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #23
Please read my OP again. I dislike it, but I never MineralMan Aug 2014 #24
Those reclining seats were designed back when there was much more space between them than now. n/t pnwmom Aug 2014 #41
And that's the crux of it, they keep cramming more and more people into the planes. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #46
And they designed them poorly in the first place. I read somewhere today that they designed pnwmom Aug 2014 #52
It doesn't bother me in the slightest when the person in front of me reclines their seat. nt Zorra Aug 2014 #26
OK. I'd never venture to speak for you. MineralMan Aug 2014 #27
So? You're obviously not one of the people whose knees require that space. pnwmom Aug 2014 #30
I'm 5'11, and slim. The average height of an adult in the US is about five feet, 7 inches. Zorra Aug 2014 #37
Height isn't everything. My husband is 4 inches taller but I have longer legs. pnwmom Aug 2014 #39
Why indeed. Mariana Aug 2014 #72
I have real issues in economy class seats due to claustrophobia. MoonRiver Aug 2014 #32
I've had fat people slop over my armrest and make me very uncomfortable. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #38
The person doesn't even have to be fat. A man with broad, muscular shoulders pnwmom Aug 2014 #40
I can't say I couldn't stand to lose 10 pounds mythology Aug 2014 #76
It turns out that way back in the 60's, they stupidly designed seats to fit pnwmom Aug 2014 #78
Lol, you're a little bit more direct than I dare to be, but I so relate! MoonRiver Aug 2014 #42
I'm slightly obese myself. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #44
There's a big difference between slightly and morbidly obese. MoonRiver Aug 2014 #45
That's true. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #47
People on scooters? MoonRiver Aug 2014 #48
Blocking the aisle and I have to dodge them so I don't get run over in a store. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #49
OK, I know what you mean. MoonRiver Aug 2014 #50
And so I ask, my fellow claustrophobes... pipi_k Aug 2014 #43
That's unfortunate. I'm not sure what the airlines MineralMan Aug 2014 #61
When I fly with my husband he can get business or first class. That helps A LOT. MoonRiver Aug 2014 #68
i think one ought to consider also. what i want done to me, may not be what another wants. seabeyond Aug 2014 #34
What about masochists? Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2014 #36
I just don't see why this sort of thing has to be so complicated. reflection Aug 2014 #55
Almost as good as Peggy Hill's musings whatchamacallit Aug 2014 #64
Who? MineralMan Aug 2014 #67
People say, "Just recline your seat", but my lower back hurts when I do that. GoCubsGo Aug 2014 #66
I do not recline the seat unless no one is sitting behind me Skittles Aug 2014 #69
We do not have or know what "Manners" are these days... KoKo Aug 2014 #70
I am exactly the same way ballabosh Aug 2014 #74
Most others don't care a whit and will recline anyway frazzled Aug 2014 #75

safeinOhio

(32,690 posts)
1. I find this true driving a car.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:06 AM
Aug 2014

The usual response is, anyone that drives faster than me is a maniac and any one that drives slower than me is an idiot. It never matters how fast I drive.

 

Glitterati

(3,182 posts)
2. And THIS ^ is what makes DU suck
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:11 AM
Aug 2014

trivializing someone's strongly held beliefs because you don't agree.

Can you please explain why you just didn't move on to some other thread and had to stop and post your smarmy comment?

You really and truly couldn't find something more productive to do?

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
3. Yes. Driving a car requires the same sort of
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:11 AM
Aug 2014

consciousness. I pay attention to the traffic around me, and try to drive so as not to impede it, while staying within the traffic laws. Sometimes, that means finding the traffic lane that matches my driving, rather than forcing others to drive like I do. It's not always easy, though.

Personally, I'd be happy if people just paid attention to what they were doing while driving a vehicle. I recognize that many drivers are not paying attention, though, so I am doubly attentive for self-protection.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)
7. Yes, sometimes you have to change for others
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:19 AM
Aug 2014

Like slowing down to let someone in, taking turns when lanes merge, all of which requires attention to others and the flow of traffic. Good driving lessons start in kindergarten, teaching us to get along with others.
And on a plane--usually it is possible to ask before reclining. The person behind might not mind (particularly if you don't go full back) and will at least be glad of the warning, especially if their laptop is on the tray.
Courtesy and civility, true enough, MineralMan!

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
9. Yup. It's really pretty simple if you're paying attention.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:21 AM
Aug 2014

If I expect others to make room for me, then I must make room for others. It's a very simple equation. Recognizing that we are not, individually, the most important person on the planet is where it begins. Uncommon courtesy should be more common, I think.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
4. I can't believe people get so annoyed by a seat in front of them leaning two inches back.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:12 AM
Aug 2014

I really can't. I barely notice when the person in front of me does it.

Seeing people here say that anyone who does it is a "horrible person" or a "bag of dicks" has truly been enlightening.

Some people work really hard at finding the smallest most meaningless things to he outraged about.

Meanwhile feminists and sociologists have been pointing out the link between sexual objectification and violence against women for decades now and still most DUers are aligned with the RW view of the issue.

But this, this, people are outraged about.

 

Glitterati

(3,182 posts)
5. Perhaps you should re-think your strategies
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:16 AM
Aug 2014

I mean, when folks TRY to ally with you and don't toe your imaginary lines in the sand, thereby crossing some line of impurity, you dog them to death.

Yeah, not looking for allies who would just as soon stomp my face in the ground as agree with me.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
8. Or perhaps not. Focusing on first world problems, rather
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:19 AM
Aug 2014

than actual issues that affect people's lives in material ways seems to me to be the issue here.

Reclining airline seats? Really? Hardly comparable to anything truly horrible.

 

Glitterati

(3,182 posts)
10. It's really NOT about airline seats
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:26 AM
Aug 2014

It's about being disrespected. It's about the fact that the airlines disrespect their paying customers enough to pack them in like sardines and then act surprised when those sardines fight for space to breath.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
13. And yet, flights are full. Airlines are businesses.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:45 AM
Aug 2014

They're always balancing profits against demand. Each airline handles passenger comfort differently. I fly economy airlines, so I pay less for my seat, in general. Do I give up a bit of comfort to save money? Yes. You needn't do that, if you choose. Other airlines have larger seats and more space. If that's an important issue for you, you can pay the price for that. If a budget airline crams too many people into their planes, fewer people will fly on those airlines, if they're uncomfortable enough.

It is a first world problem, and insignificant, really.

 

Glitterati

(3,182 posts)
18. ROFL
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 11:48 AM
Aug 2014

flights are only full because they cancel flights that are not full.

As for me, I simply do not fly. I will not fly as long as a strip search is required to get on an airplane.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
19. If you do not fly, I can't see why you'd be concerned.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 12:45 PM
Aug 2014

Strip searched? In all of my flying during my lifetime, I've never been strip searched.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,748 posts)
77. Airlines do not cancel flights that are not full.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 07:08 PM
Aug 2014

I used to work for an airline and I know this for a fact. What they sometimes do is oversell the coach seats because they can count on a certain number of no-shows. If a flight on a particular route or city-pair never fills up, this indicates there is insufficient demand for that flight to justify it. Profit margins at airlines are razor thin and no sane business offers a service at a loss. However, no airline wants to give up a route and lose it to another airline, but they have to balance the cost of the service against the revenue. Nevertheless, they do not just cancel a flight just because it isn't full.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
56. I hardly think anyone is trying to disrespect you by reclining their seat.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:31 PM
Aug 2014

More likely they are trying to find what little comfort they can and are allowed to.

I wonder why you take it personally.

Response to Glitterati (Reply #58)

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
65. It is not so much a question of comprehension but
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:59 PM
Aug 2014

of failing to read the entire post. I guess I only read the first sentence and jumped to conclusions. I do apologize and I agree with your post.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
6. Yes, that's true.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:17 AM
Aug 2014

The reclining feature of most airline seats does little to promote comfort anyhow. It's mostly psychological, I think. I'm always amused when someone reclines their seat and then keeps trying to make it recline further by violently attempting to push the seat back over and over again.

It is a first world problem, really. Personally, I'm still amazed that I can get on a plane in Minneapolis and arrive in Los Angeles just three hours later. Everything else is secondary to that. I can manage a little discomfort for that advantage. Really I can.

We humans rage at inconsequential, mildly annoying things while ignoring monstrous things. It's puzzling.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
14. That could be. Or they may just be so self-oriented
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:51 AM
Aug 2014

that they never bother to think about anything but their own wants. I don't know. I don't really care. When I get on a plane, my goal is to soon get off the plane safely at my destination. Other issues aren't really that important to me. I don't fly a lot anymore, but I used to fly frequently. I'm still always amazed that our technology makes such travel possible. It's wonderful.

When my 89-year-old father had a brain bleed last year, I was able to be at his bedside in less than 24 hours, 2/3 of the way across the country. I could have been there sooner, but his condition was stable enough to let me fly out the next morning. That's just freaking amazing.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
28. Then you must not have knees that are sunk into the seat in front of you. Some people do.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:33 AM
Aug 2014

I got deep vein thrombosis from a cross-country flight because I couldn't move around enough. Nobody gets a blood clot because they aren't reclined.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
57. Your complaint should be to the airlines and the lack of space not your fellow
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:37 PM
Aug 2014

passenger.

There are always seats that have more leg room and seats that do not recline (by the emergency exits). Why not get yourself one of the sets with the room or behind the ones that don't recline?

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
35. Same here.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:17 PM
Aug 2014

I don't mind if the passenger in front of me reclines and I don't care if the passenger in back gets annoyed when I recline.

Personally, I have no patience for those whose mission in life is to be irritated, outraged, angered and offended every ten seconds.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
54. +1 And, some people may find sitting at a 90 degree angle
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:26 PM
Aug 2014

for long periods of time very uncomfortable. Live and let live.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
63. It depends on how tall you are.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:54 PM
Aug 2014

I used to be able to fly coach comfortably 15-20 years ago and I am 6'1"/215#. Now I need a therapeutic massage after being in coach for a couple of hours.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
12. Exactly.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:35 AM
Aug 2014

If pumping funds into markets increases the effects of climate change while funding the deniers, increases the power of those who are crushing our democracy and assuredly increasing the suffering of every form of life to roam this planet.
Man, talk about crushing those behind us.
Those born now and soon to be born are being welcomed into a death spiral all thanks to people who have no qualms laying that seat down on them.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
15. Everyone is in a death spiral the minute they are born.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:53 AM
Aug 2014

It's the nature of life. Live as well as you can during your short stay.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
51. And thanks to the efforts of investors.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 02:25 PM
Aug 2014

That spiral will be much shorter, much warmer and way more frightening.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
62. Maybe. Maybe not.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:50 PM
Aug 2014

Lots of 90-somethings out there, and the number of people over 100 is growing quickly.

You could be right, down the road, but that remains to be seen.

Gothmog

(145,344 posts)
20. This is a formulation of a High Holy day sermon that we get every other year
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 12:59 PM
Aug 2014

Basically the Torah can be summarize as "Treat others as you would want to be treated and everything else is commentary"

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
22. I automatically assume that the person in front of me is going to recline
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:31 AM
Aug 2014

That's the reason why reclining seats are there in the first place.
And I can't travel more than an hour or so sitting upright in a bus or airplane seat, and certainly not 10 or 11 or 12 or 13 hours on a trans-Pacific flight.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
25. I don't assume that. In fact, on my last few flights where reclining
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 09:36 AM
Aug 2014

seats were available, the person in front of me didn't use that feature. I'm sorry you have problems that require you to recline your seat to survive your flight. As I said in my OP, I won't say anything or insist that you raise your seat if you're in the row ahead of me. I simply won't recline mine, for the reasons I mentioned in my OP.

I'm not telling anyone else what not to do. I'm telling people what I do. It's interesting that some people are missing that.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
29. You can travel without reclining. You just prefer not to.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:37 AM
Aug 2014

But no one can travel without their knees, unfortunately. And some people have knees that require that space. Having cramped legs can lead to deep vein thrombosis, a known risk of flying.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
31. I got deep vein thrombosis sitting in traffic.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:37 AM
Aug 2014

Took me 5 hours to get through the Dallas traffic on I-35. I would pull off at an exit and go to the rest room (uncontrolled diabetes), and come back and sit in the driver's seat slumped over and panting violently from not getting enough air. Ketoacidosis. Burning fat instead of carbs. I lost weight, but I almost died.

Two days later I was in the hospital in another town (my destination) with pulmonary emboli (blood clots in my lungs--they travel from your legs through your heart when they break away and land in your lungs, basically trying to suffocate you) in ICU. Spent eight days there in ICU, still paying off the bill a bit at a time.


Dallas sucks! (There are a few nice people there!)

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
33. Happened to me on a cross-country flight.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:11 PM
Aug 2014

They had the seatbelt light on most of the time, so I was stuck in the cramped seat.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
59. So people that have back problems don't count but
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:41 PM
Aug 2014

people that have cramped legs do?

By the way, they sell socks to counter the risk of thrombosis and the only other real way to counter it is to stand and walk on occasion. Try taking a stroll to the restroom occasionally.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
71. On the day I got the DVT, the seat belt sign was on for most of the flight.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 05:52 PM
Aug 2014

That seems to be happening more and more lately. But I did go to the restroom because I always do.

Those socks help but don't prevent DVT. I wear them every day but movement is the key. Not having the legs in a cramped position is important.

The other thing that helps is to drink plenty of fluids (but not alcohol) because plane travel dehydrates. The airlines should be serving more fluids than they do, so I buy my own in the airport shop.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
73. Agreed. I am surprised the airlines aren't more accommodating to letting
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 06:28 PM
Aug 2014

people stand since it is such a risk. They have packed the planes so tightly that there is barely room to walk in the aisles and you can't stand by your seat because the ceiling is so low.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
23. Except, the seats are designed to be reclined.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:41 AM
Aug 2014

People want to petition the airlines to make all the seats non-reclining, great. But as long as they are, that's part of the deal with flying.

Acting in abject horror and offense when someone does what is a perfectly legitimate part of the ticket they bought, namely putting their seat back, is silly.

Whoever came up with the idea that it is "rude and offensive" was just making stuff up. They should have brought it to the airlines and airplane manufacturers, not tried invent some nonexistent rule to stop people from doing something that is a perfectly legitimate action as a flying member of the public.

Edited to add: I also fully expect that the person in front of me is going to put their seat back too, and i don't find that "abhorrent"

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
24. Please read my OP again. I dislike it, but I never
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 09:00 AM
Aug 2014

openly object if people use that feature of their seat. Instead, I simply do not recline my own seat back, because I know it's annoying to do that. That's the core of my post.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
46. And that's the crux of it, they keep cramming more and more people into the planes.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:50 PM
Aug 2014

So they should disable the recline function, then. It's not the flyers' responsibility.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
52. And they designed them poorly in the first place. I read somewhere today that they designed
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 02:34 PM
Aug 2014

them to fit men's average bottom width in 1960 -- 14" -- not thinking about the fact that women's bottoms on average are bigger, and that men's backs and shoulders are several inches wider than their hips. Then they squeezed all the leg room out.

And Americans are larger than they were in 1960, not smaller. No wonder no one over the age of 10 is comfortable.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
30. So? You're obviously not one of the people whose knees require that space.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:42 AM
Aug 2014

What about those with longer legs? Why should they have to pay $78 dollars more per flight-leg -- amounting to over $300 dollars on a typical 1 stop itinerary -- if those seats are even available?

Why shouldn't they charge the recliners more instead?

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
37. I'm 5'11, and slim. The average height of an adult in the US is about five feet, 7 inches.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:25 PM
Aug 2014

The 3 inches or whatever that a reclined seat in front of me takes up does not generally affect me. I would much prefer to have the ability to recline and be able to get comfortable enough to sleep, than have 3 extra inches in front of me that I don't use anyway. And I prefer that the person in front of me has the choice to recline, because I want the choice for myself.

Some like it hot, some like it cold, and some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope.

Airlines squeeze people into planes like sardines in order to maximize profit, because they can. We can't boycott them if we need to fly, so they own us, and we have no recourse to effect change. It's not Burger King. We either get it their way, or we take the bus, unless we have the money to fly elite.

If we lived in a country that had a genuinely democratic government, we would be able to get our Congress to pass laws that forced airlines to provide safer and more comfortable seating. Unfortunately, the same 1% oligarchs who own the airlines also own Congress, so this is not an option.

In the meantime, there is obviously a division between those who prefer to have the choice to recline, and those who prefer to not have this choice.

So...under present circumstances, if half an aircraft was equipped with reclining seats, and the other half was equipped with non-reclining seats, and passengers were given their choice of either, at the same price per ticket, would that be a reasonable solution, a satisfactory compromise, for you?


pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
39. Height isn't everything. My husband is 4 inches taller but I have longer legs.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:02 PM
Aug 2014

And I've had deep vein thrombosis after a plane flight, because I couldn't move my legs enough and the seatbelt light was on most of the flight.

I wouldn't mind if the seats were divided as you described. They should do something, because blood clots are a known risk of flying, and they can put people in the hospital or even kill them.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
32. I have real issues in economy class seats due to claustrophobia.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:39 AM
Aug 2014

I almost came unglued once because I was squeezed by a "large" person, while sitting in the middle seat. I spent most of that flight in a flight attendant seat, in the rear of the plane. Flight attendants understood and even offered me that seat, but I had to go back to my other seat for touchdown. Unless I can be in an aisle seat I will not fly. Even in the aisle seat I have problems when somebody pushes his/her seat back. Makes me feel trapped in a small space. I also have similar reactions in densely packed crowds and in a full elevator.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
38. I've had fat people slop over my armrest and make me very uncomfortable.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:29 PM
Aug 2014

I am small enough that I don't have to worry about leg room. And I can fit between the armrests. But fat people slopping their fat arms and sides over my armrest makes me very uncomfortable.

One time I was in an aisle seat on the right. The two people next to me were looking out the window at the baggage loading conveyor, and yelled at a flight attendant about their baggage being tossed on its way into the plane.

The whole time there was a flight attendant bent over me talking to them. His right hand was on the seat back behind my head, and his tie was dangling in front of my face. His left hand was on the seat back of the seat in front of me. So I literally couldn't do anything with this guy hovering over me. He was practically on top of me with his arms and chest trying to reassure these people. He couldn't do anything about the baggage tossing, I am sure. No doubt feeding them a line of corporate bullshit. It was very uncomfortable with a strange man that close to me. That sucked.

I stopped flying a few years ago. I don't have any relatives that are far away.



pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
40. The person doesn't even have to be fat. A man with broad, muscular shoulders
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:04 PM
Aug 2014

can extend well over his seat and armrest.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
76. I can't say I couldn't stand to lose 10 pounds
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 06:52 PM
Aug 2014

but I have the problem with my shoulders leaning over. I had a flight a couple of years ago, fortunately just a hop, where I was the smallest guy on the row. I felt bad for the guy in the middle.

But I also have knees where there's a bad knee and a worse knee. So being crammed into airplane seats is just an all around awful experience for me. It's better if I get one of the extended leg room seats, but not by much.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
78. It turns out that way back in the 60's, they stupidly designed seats to fit
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 07:31 PM
Aug 2014

men's average hip width -- 14 inches at the time. They didn't account for the fact that women's hips are wider on the average and men's backs and shoulders are much wider. So men's shoulders have always been extending over their armrests.

And then, of course, people just got bigger -- but the seats didn't.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
42. Lol, you're a little bit more direct than I dare to be, but I so relate!
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:35 PM
Aug 2014

And navigating through airports, security etc. is a another miserable nightmare. My flying days are pretty much over also. Our daughter lives in another state, and if she gets married of course we'll go, but hopefully non-stop.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
44. I'm slightly obese myself.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:41 PM
Aug 2014

I am not one of these people with a fast metabolism who can eat anything they want and stay thin.
But my fat doesn't go all the way around, so to speak.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
45. There's a big difference between slightly and morbidly obese.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:47 PM
Aug 2014

The second category is what I've dealt with on flights. I have NO prejudice against extremely overweight people, but when trapped in a sardine can with one I tend to fall apart. Like I mentioned I also do this in other environments, which I avoid. Really doesn't have anything to do with the size of a person, but how much room I feel I have around me. When I have a panic attack in these situations, it feels like I am trapped and can't breathe.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
47. That's true.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 01:51 PM
Aug 2014

That was my point. I have a few extra pounds but I'm not morbidly obese to the point of not fitting in an airline seat.

Don't get me started on people on scooters, or I'll definitely be non-PC.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
61. That's unfortunate. I'm not sure what the airlines
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:48 PM
Aug 2014

can do to make flying easier for you, though. Consider paying extra for an exit row or bulkhead seat to get more room and be less confined. That would be my suggestion. First Class is another option, but an expensive one.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
68. When I fly with my husband he can get business or first class. That helps A LOT.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 04:30 PM
Aug 2014

But my spinal problems are making long trips more and more difficult. When we went overseas this summer I had to use a wheelchair to navigate through O'Hare and Heathrow. I do not like that because I am decades younger than when both my mother and his mother had to use one. I feel very self-conscious.

I only need a wheelchair when navigating through giant airports however. I would be very happy if I never set foot on an airplane again.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
34. i think one ought to consider also. what i want done to me, may not be what another wants.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:12 PM
Aug 2014

so do not impose my want on another.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
36. What about masochists?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 12:21 PM
Aug 2014

They're into receiving pain in certain controlled circumstances. That is different from other people that avoid pain. What then?



People are different. Different people want different things to be happy.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
55. I just don't see why this sort of thing has to be so complicated.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 03:31 PM
Aug 2014

When I fly, if I want to recline, I ask the person behind me if they mind. If they say yes, I ease it back ever so slightly, and check with them again - "is that ok?" No one has ever said no or complained. If they did, I'd either raise it up all the way back or halfway back as a compromise. It's all about communication. We just need to talk to each other more, smile and engage.

GoCubsGo

(32,086 posts)
66. People say, "Just recline your seat", but my lower back hurts when I do that.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 04:06 PM
Aug 2014

That's why I prefer it straight up. I also have to use my carry-on as a foot rest to further take pressure off my back. Consequently, my knees get whacked whenever the person in front of me reclines. It also sucks having the back of the seat in front of you right in your face. Some choice I have: a sore back or bruised knees. It's also really hard to read in a reclining position.

Skittles

(153,169 posts)
69. I do not recline the seat unless no one is sitting behind me
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 04:51 PM
Aug 2014

I respect the space of others even if I do not know them

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
70. We do not have or know what "Manners" are these days...
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 05:49 PM
Aug 2014

"Manners" are out of date. "Rudeness" is an archaic term. "Courtesy" is a word that one would have to look up in the dictionary and devise what the meaning could mean.

You and I grew up in a different time. Or, perhaps we grew up differently. I would engage the person in back of me and tell them "I would like to recline my seat a bit...is that okay with you?"

But, perhaps I misread your post.

ballabosh

(330 posts)
74. I am exactly the same way
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 06:33 PM
Aug 2014

I'm 6'4" so it's hard enough for me to fit comfortably in airline seats let alone if someone reclines. But I don't complain if someone does. But I don't recline for that reason. I never thought the two inches of reclining made any difference anyway.

Also, when I got to a concert/movie/play, I try to get an end or rear seat and scrunch down or lean to the side as much as possible so as not to obstruct the view of the people behind me. I can see over most people, but I realize that most people can't see over me. That's just me.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
75. Most others don't care a whit and will recline anyway
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 06:43 PM
Aug 2014

even if they don't want it done to themselves. I think you're too optimistic about the golden rule as applied to air travel.

My main issue is that when the person in front of me reclines, it blocks the light coming from the overhead bulb, and then not only can I not read or work, but the tray table (another airplane option everyone has the right to use) is pushed right up to my chest.

Realistically, the only way to engage people is not through "modeling" nice behavior and hoping they will follow suit, but to get up, walk to their row, and politely explain to them the ways in which their reclining is bothering you. They need to know. They'll probably say, "tough shit." But hopefully the people sitting around them will give them the stink eye.

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