Is ISIS declaring war on the US

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Osama's August 8, 2001 PDB?

Can he safely ignore it or should he act?

[Warpy]

1. They've declared war on anyone who isn't one of them.

That makes things much simpler.

[BaggersRDumb]

2. Well, the Saudi's seem to be financing ISIS/ISIL as they did the 911 attack...

The entire situation exists because of what W did and what Nixon did before him and Reagan.

Rightwingers have been fucking up our good name for a long time, and now the BLACK man has to, once again, step in and fix the mess made by the white assholes.

[stevenleser]

11. Some private Saudi citizens. Not "the Saudis". If KKK does something that is not "the Americans"

or do you think it represents you when the KKK does something?

[arcane1]

3. First, we must define "act"

The urgency with which ISIS is being treated by the hawks makes me very suspcious about who is funding them. It's awfully convenient.

[Renew Deal]

4. What are you referring to?

I've seen comments from them that would lead a reasonable person to think that. But I want to know if I missed something.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. There is a video of a leader / spokesperson saying ISIS is at war with the US because of our

airstrikes. It also accompanied the beheading of Mr. Foley. There have also been pro-ISIS / threats posted to social media showing ISIS icons in front of the White House and a landmark in Chicago.

Perhaps these are sympathetic cranks or maybe they're genuine or a mixture but if something does happen it seems that the President's actions beforehand will set the stage for how the impending outrage will be distributed (I'm hoping the President is resolute and proactive).

[Thinkingabout]

5. Sorta did with the beheading of an American and giving the reason of the bombing.

They have also made statements of flying their flag over the White House, doesn't sound like they are coming to a state dinner.

[TwilightGardener]

6. I think they didn't intend to, yet. They wanted to strengthen their grip on

the territory they hold, acquire more weapons and oil money, and get more fighters recruited FIRST and then strike western targets from a secure base--but they blew it in going after the Yazidis and Kurds. We had advisers/forces on the ground for when air strikes were needed, and we were thus ready to go after them. I guess better to do it now while they're stretched out and not dug in, rather than later when they're more powerful.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. Yeah. For the first time in my life I'm not feeling very anti-war. I'm definitely not pro-war but

these animals have to be stopped.
My husband saw a video of ISIS beheading a small girl, maybe no older than 6. He's a vet. Did his time and started his new life with me. Last night he told me that if it came to it he would reenlist to stop the bastards. It scared me but something told me he's right

[TwilightGardener]

13. Most rational people are watching them on their rampage and are thinking, "Holy shit!"

That's where I'm at. I initially doubted they planned to do more than just hold land in Syria, where they could be all nutty-fundy and Assad would kind of leave them alone. But they've gone totally batshit in the last few months--that shit they were doing in Syria with eating hearts and performing crucifixions wasn't just a few drama queens putting on a show. That's really how they are.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. I never thought I'd be lumped in with

"Most rational people..." Kinda feels weird in here, to be honest.

[magical thyme]

36. agreed. beheaded a 6 year old girl?!?! sadistic psychopaths. they must be stopped

I'd read of the crucifixions, but without proof to me it was just more "throwing babies out of incubators."

But I watched the beginning of Foley's beheading, before my hand very quickly fast forwarded me out of that image. I can still see it, along with the final shot of his head sitting on his torso.

This is one of those ugly situations where we cannot turn back the clock. W set this in motion when he killed Hussein. Hateful as he was, Hussein kept a lid on this. Now its a goaded monster on the loose.

We can't undo what W did and pretend it didn't happen. We can only push forward through this morass to some sort of conclusion. That means stopping these madmen.

[TheKentuckian]

8. We are already hitting them, they are at war by definition regardless of declaration.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. Should the US fight them to destroy them or merely bite around the edges?

[TheKentuckian]

16. Neither, we should back the hell off before we fuck the situation up even more.

What does it take to prove that we are out of our fucking element?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. How should Bush have responded to the August 8th, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing that told him

Al Qaeda was determined to attack the US?

[TheKentuckian]

38. Safeguard against attacks rather than allowing them to happen to trump up wars and

plaster up some credibility instead of being the instant lame duck he was.

Granting the very best, I'm going to go with give a fuck and follow up on the abundant leads and substantive warnings.

[roamer65]

12. This will be a much wider war very soon.

The Shi'a in the south are blaming the KSA and Qatar for the ISIS/ISIL and dissing the Kurds for wanting independence. The IS is a Saudi black op run amok that eventually Iran will be forced to deal with and when that happens, the regional war will truly begin. This is a shitstorm with so many fingers pointing everywhere, you cannot make sense of it all.

[Strelnikov_]

15. Fully agree, especially your last sentence.

The 'threat' the Pentagon is really talking about is what you allude to . . . in the region containing 80% of the worlds oil reserves.

The 2003 invasion is the gift that just keeps on giving.

This is truly looking like an uncontrollable event.


Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.

- Winston Churchill

[GP6971]

18. What's going to happen when

one of our jets are shot down and the pilot/crew are captured by them?? ISIL will take a lot of joy in publicly executing them and what will be our reaction?????

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. Nothing is risk-free.

If ISIS is able to strike the US and kill civilians the reaction will be just as outraged but it may not be directed solely at ISIS. Bush was warned in the Aug. 8th PDB. When that fact came to light people wanted to know why he hadn't acted to pre-empt 9/11.

I'm not saying Obama should attack to provide himself political cover. I think he should destroy these monsters. I don't say that blithely either; my husband may well re-enlist. Service members understand the risks and they accept them so civilians don't have to be targets.

[GP6971]

23. I agree, but not sure I agree

that all soldiers accept the risks. SF and Seals, Delta Force, sure. The every day run of the day soldier who has been in the ME theatre of operations......not too sure. It's a violent and strange culture which many of our military personnel have a hard time understanding. My first trip outside the US was to Saudi Arabia in the late 70s......what a culture shock!!!!!!

[Ex Lurker]

31. they don't have any air defense capability to speak of

Never say never, but highly unlikely.

[justiceischeap]

20. IMO, he should act

However, we've become such a skeptical nation after Bush that it's hard to know if it's the right thing to do.

I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[HooptieWagon]

21. The Duchy of Grand Fenwick did.

I'm not too particularly worried about either.

[Generic Brad]

22. Sure hope they don't hook up with Cliven Bundy, his militia buddies & the sovereign citizen movement

We have more problems and real threats coming from people in our own backyard than we do with Isis.

[RandiFan1290]

34. They are the same crowd

al-Qaeda/IS is an arm of the MIC and the neocons along with their Saudi and US oil buddies. Keeps the price of oil high enough to keep the Saudis happy and makes the US shale extraction more profitable. Weapons and oil flow! Everyone's happy!



Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception


http://www.alternet.org/story/15935/leo_strauss%27_philosophy_of_deception

...this regime of secrecy, deception and propaganda is an essential feature of the neoconservative political philosophy that now drives the leadership of both major political parties. Leo Strauss, the intellectual godfather of the neocons, was a refugee from 1930s Germany who believed that any genuine effort to achieve “government of the people, by the people, for the people” was doomed to end as the Weimar Republic did in Germany with the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. Strauss had a very dark Hobbesian view of human nature, which he justified with “secret” meanings he claimed were hidden in the works of Plato, Nietzsche and all philosophers. Strauss did not believe that the general public could handle the truth as he saw it, so that any system in which the public held real power would surely end in barbarism.

The Straussian solution to this imaginary problem is a system of “managed democracy,” in which a privileged high priesthood or oligarchy monopolizes real power as it oversees a superficial structure of democracy and promotes patriotic and religious myths to ensure the loyalty of the public and the cohesion of society. Political scientist Sheldon Wolin has dubbed this “inverted totalitarianism.” Because it is less openly offensive than “classical totalitarianism,” the inverted form may be more sustainable and therefore more successful in achieving a total concentration of wealth and power, paradoxically making it more insidious and dangerous than the classical totalitarianism the Straussians claim to be saving us from.

[grahamhgreen]

24. He should waste another 3-6 trillion in the sandbox before walking away in defeat from a 1400 year

old conflict.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. How should Bush have reacted to the August 8, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief that told him

Al Qaeda was going to attack the US?

[grahamhgreen]

27. He should have contacted his Taliban buddies (who had just visited Cheney at the White House) and

had them hand Osama over to the international court (as they offered to to after 9-11).

Instead, bush waited til the plan went down, then invaded an oil rich country that had nothing to do with al-Qaeda, and wound up with something they say is worse than al Qaeda in that country.

Why? To profit from war and oil at our expense.

[CJCRANE]

28. He should have listened to the 55 other warnings that preceded it.

The CIA should have told the FBI that known Al Qaeda operatives were in country.

Bushco should have followed up on the Hart-Rudman recommendations and also listened to the outgoing Clinton administration that warned them about Al Qaeda.

[bobduca]

35. In for a penny, in for a pound

Ah the infamous Presidential Daily Briefing, the right Bush reaction would have been pre-emptive war !?!? LOL first time I've seen that memo used to justify more war.. talk about missing the point. If Bush admin were not so arrogant / confident / corrupt (your choice) they would have handled this with Special Operations units.

[CJCRANE]

26. The hijackers were already inside the US. Maybe if they release the redacted pages

of the report we'll find out why Bushco didn't do anything.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

29. Yes, well, it's not reasonable to assume Obama has as much detail about ISIS operatives that

may be in the US and the Foley murder cannot be left unanswered.

[CJCRANE]

32. He has said he will answer it.

Bush said nothing about the Aug 6th PDB.

Condi Rice only owned up to it several years later.

It's a different situation now. You have prominent Repubs talking about "burning" an American city. We have open threats from ISIS. We have a conflict situation. It's totally different.

And the administration has said they are taking the threat seriously.

[davidn3600]

30. ISIS is one of those groups of people that tend to declare war on everyone

[grahamhgreen]

33. It's kind of a dictate of the qoran...

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.vox.com/2014/7/10/5884593/9-questions-about-the-caliphate-you-were-too-embarrassed-to-ask&sa=U&ei=eoL4U4-nAerViwLxyoCICQ&ved=0CBkQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFNFEtsihFa_hV8Rtk96ugXZkV9QA

[jwirr]

37. I think they have declared war on all foreigners. They are strict conservatives in their religion so

any outside force or differing ideas are seen as the enemy.