Question for those Who Say They Will Not Support Hillary Clinton Under Any Circumstances

[Wolf Frankula]

I Will assume that your differences are with her actions and positions, and not because she is a Clinton or a Woman. I have differences with some of her stands too.


But now it is late 2016. Despite all efforts HRC has the Democratic nomination and has picked a moderate Hispanic congressman from California as a running mate. Elizabeth Warren has endorsed HRC and Bernie Sanders is NOT running.

The Republicans have nominated Rand Paul. He has reached out to the crazy right and has Michelle Bachmann as a running mate. They are running on the same 'Cut Taxes for Rich People, Reduce Controls on Business, Increase Controls on People, More War' Platform the goopers have used since 1980.

Ralf Rumplesuit Nader has stumbled out of his grave and is running on the LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, Party ticket. He has as a running mate, the Rev. Nayborhood Busybody a community activist from the wilds of Cincinnati. Nobody outside Cincy has ever heard of him, he seems to have dreams of being the next Al Sharpton, he has flatly declared he doesn't care if he wins or loses, he's running for the exposure, he is in favor of a National Health Plan, with therapy to 'help gays lead normal sexual lives'. Also it has been revealed that Rumplesuit is receiving Republican money.

Ted Nugent is running as the candidate of the God and Gunz party. He has Tommy Toilet as his running mate, Ted Cruz having turned him down saying, "I don't want to be associated with anybody that crazy."


What do you do? Do you hold your nose and vote for Hillary? Do you abandon your principles and go for Randroid Paul and Batshit with what all that means? Do you stay home and maybe help elect Randroid and Batshit? Do you turn Ralfer and go for the zombie. Do you abandon sense all together and go for Toilet Ted?

Me, I hold my nose and vote for Hillary. But what do you do?

Wolf

[stevenleser]

1. This thread should be interesting.

I will happily support Hillary in the nomination and general.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. In your opinion,

what were Hillary's three biggest wins for working Americans?

Her three biggest political victories?

[Bettie]

2. If she's the nominee, I will support her

Anyone the current Republican party manages to get through its nomination process would be a disaster in office and I will not be responsible for that happening.

I'll fight against it, even if all I have is my one vote (and phone banking, etc.).

[mylye2222]

3. I don't support her,

because of her pro- Wall Street ties, and Neocon lite positions. Also for the behaviour she had displayed, both in the past and presently towards more liberal Dems than her, on the top, to Obama and Kerry.

As a French citizen, I obviously don't have to ask the question of voting for her or not. If I were american, I'd probably would vote for her, if she's nominee, within holding my nose hardly, for at least one reason: the SCOTUS. ...

[The River]

4. It Doesn't Really Matter

They all work for and represent Mr. Ollie Garchy and Mr. Wally Street.

[newfie11]

10. +1 Nt

[HERVEPA]

29. Thanks for yoour thoughts Ralph.

I'm sure Gore would have been the same as Bush.
Just how far can you stick your head in the sand?

[Pholus]

31. Yeah, shut up and vote for the Third Wayer of your choice!

Hey HRC gets my vote if she is the nominee. After her neocon interview in the Atlantic I figure I got the whole primary process to try to make sure we don't go there.

[HERVEPA]

38. I was responding to the poster implying no difference.

You presumable elieve there is a difference if you'll vote for Hillary. Is that correct?

[malthaussen]

5. Is a vote "support," really?

I think the conflation of the two might lead to a certain confusion.

And if one votes, not "for" Hillary, but "against" the other candidates, does that constitute "support" by any reasonable definition?

-- Mal

[Rex]

6. If she is the candidate, then of course I will vote for her.

I cannot just NOT vote and I will NEVER vote for a GOPuker...so whoever it is, gets my vote. Be it Hillary or Sanders or Biden or whoever it is...should be interesting to see who it will be.

We MUST keep the WH in 2016.

[hifiguy]

7. I will do what I did in 1980:

Make a reasoned analysis of whether my home state is likely to vote Democratic in the presidential election. 34 years ago I concluded that Jimmy Carter - in whom I had been profoundly disappointed after voting enthusiastically for him in 1976 - would win Minnesota and that Raygun would probably win the presidency. I was right on both counts and have never regretted my vote for John Anderson at the top of an otherwise straight Democratic ticket.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

41. I voted for Anderson in 1980

I'll never vote for a third party candidate again.

[monmouth3]

8. I will hold my nose and grit my teeth, anyone is better than a republican...n/t

[HooptieWagon]

9. Maybe vote Green Party?

I don't think holding one's nose is enough to remove the stench of a corporatist Dem and her "moderate" running mate, and I doubt my local polling location will permit me to wear a gas mask inside the building.

[ZombieHorde]

11. 'Cut Taxes for Rich People, Reduce Controls on Business, Increase Controls on People, More War'

So in your scenario, both the Democrats and the Republicans have the same platform?

[nykym]

12. I cannot see why you included

Tommy Toilet with Ted Nugent he is the exact opposite not a good match up!

[JaydenD]

13. No nose holding will be required.

She will not be running and if she does, slim chance that, it will be more to her demise when the debates show even more clearly how inept and inconsistent she is.

The pretend book tour/really campaign balloon was a bust. She speaks, she stumbles, she not so smart after all.

[riqster]

14. I will vote against the Teapubbies.

By voting for the only candidate that can kick their loathesome, spotty behinds: the Democratic Candidate.

Better Hill than Hell.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. I will vote for the candidate

that best represents traditional Democratic ideals, as long as my vote won't contribute to a worse outcome than than otherwise.

[AtomicKitten]

18. From Elizabeth Warren 2 days ago.

Elizabeth Warren gets "rescued" from question about Hillary 2016.
link: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/warren-rescued-from-hillary-2016-question

video at 1:58 mark:
http://www.myfoxboston.com/clip/10489763/warren-weighs-in-on-ferguson-market-basket-and-trip-to-israel

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) dodged a question on Tuesday when asked by a local television station whether Hillary Clinton is "the best choice" for the Democratic Party in 2016.

A reporter with Boston's Fox affiliate WFXT asked Warren point blank: “Do you believe Hillary Clinton is still best choice for your party coming up for 2016?"

“You know, Hillary is terrific," Warren said, after a brief pause.

“Is she still the best choice though?” the reporter asked. She then repeated the question once more after the senator appeared to have trouble hearing her.

Just then, as Warren began to respond, what WFXT described as a supporter of the senator appeared by her side and whispered loudly, "We have to go inside now. It's time to go indoors."

"You’re being rescued. The rescuer is here," someone in the crowd said.

Hopefully this will quell the "Elizabeth Warren has endorsed Hillary and is not running for president" meme flogged here at DU on a regular basis.

[Maedhros]

19. Including this in your post:

Ralf Rumplesuit Nader has stumbled out of his grave and is running on the LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, Party ticket.

makes me dismiss it as intellectually lazy nonsense.

[clarice]

20. Fingers firmly on nose. nt

[mmonk]

21. No matter what I do, I can't be blamed for voting for Republicans.

Because if I haven't, I haven't. So take it all somewhere else. Democrats could have stopped some current members of the Supreme Court from taking their seats but they chose not. I'm not responsible if I don't choose to vote for HRC. The arguments are too old to matter anymore.

[LuvNewcastle]

23. plus one

[sorechasm]

22. Is Hillary a democrat?

Are we sure she is not running to win the GOP nomination? Lately it's hard to tell.
Regardless, I'm in the bag. Always vote strait ticket of Democrats.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

24. Howard Dean: I hope Hillary Clinton becomes president

See more here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025432318

[sabrina 1]

25. Focus on Congress, that is where the power is. If we have a good, strong progressive majority

in the House and the Senate, the WH.

[IDemo]

26. I'm already in a laser-bright red state

Obama had Democrats more excited here than they have been in decades, maybe ever. He was roundly trounced in the general. There is zero chance of Hillary enjoying even a fraction of that support. No, I will not feel badly about not voting for her, since it will have no effect.

[jwirr]

27. I would reluctantly vote for her and get right back on DU to start working to get her to do the

things I want her to do. Hopefully she would listen better as president than she does as candidate.

[Savannahmann]

28. Ah that's where you're wrong.

You see Rand won't be running on the more war platform. He'll be running on the reduce the militarization of the police platform. He'll be running on the legalize Marijuana Platform. He'll be running on the reduce our military presence overseas platform. Those are the Libertarian Planks that his run will be based upon. So who would vote for him?

Well, Moderates who were shocked by the behavior of the Police at Ferguson. The stats here are interesting.While only 33% of whites think that the cops were not justified in shooting Michael Brown. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-poll-shows-sharp-racial-ideological-divisions-on-michael-brown/article_9334decb-3f97-5564-80b1-0bb11889beca.html It's important to note that at the moment, Rand Paul is on the populist side of the issue as far as Blacks are concerned.

Legalization of Marijuana. Rand is smart enough to make a campaign pledge to work for this goal. The people that are aware of what is going on in Colorado regarding the taxes collected will be on board. The law and order Rethugs won't, but they won't be happy about the previous position either.

He's been opposed to the NSA spying for a long time now. Do you think he will suddenly abandon that position now that the election is going to go national?

So our base will be made of Liberals, Defense Contractors who want the foreign wars to continue, and people who think the cops should have all that military gear. Oh, let's not forget the keep marijuana a crime group. All we need for the full spectrum is for Hillary to insult some minorities and we'll get the Klan vote too.

You guys are assuming that Rand is going to run a traditional Rethug campaign. He's never done that. He won't now. He's going to be the nominee, because with Perry out there isn't anyone left. Paul Ryan is a policy wonk and that won't fly with the Rethugs. Nobody is going to go Bush for the third time. Romney won't do it again. Nobody is left. It's Rand.

He's going to run on what works for him, what he's known for. He's going to run on Libertarian/Conservatism. He's going to blast the Government for bailing out GM, the Banks, and wall street. He's going to tap into the residual anger of many Americans. He's going to go out and talk about Government Health Care. He's a Doctor, so he is going to have a unique point of view.

Whoever decided to indict Perry is an idiot. Because the moron was a good front runner for the nomination now that he has glasses on that make him look smart, which we know from the debates for the 2012 nomination that he can't string a sentence together. The public already think that the prosecution is a political witch hunt. But no worries, because they'll never hear anything else about it, they don't go to LW sites.

Hillary is going to see that the left is well covered by Rand, and she'll do what she does best. She'll run to the right. That will lose the base, and she'll lose. Because she'll be running as a big government conservative Democrat. She'll be in favor of Obamacare, keeping the troops in the fight against ISIS. In favor of the NSA, and the spying they have to do to "keep us safe". Opposed to the legalization of Marijuana.

Now, who do you think will win that election?

[Octafish]

32. Pretty frightening scenario and a most astute analysis.

Only one standing in the way of it happening isn't Hillary, though. It's Jebthro.

[woo me with science]

34. I think you are right.

I have been fascinated by the ostentatiousness of Hillary's Third Way, neocon campaign, by the trumpeting of her "gaffes" about being poor by the corporate media, and by the level of deliberate obnoxiousness of many of her mouthpieces online. It would hardly be possible to run a campaign better suited to alienating the Democratic base and voters generally.

I thought for a while that the plan was just to infuriate the base as much as possible so that when a fake stealth populist appeared late in the game, Democrats would rally around him or her mindlessly and without demanding any serious vetting.

But in watching the play, I have decided that it's more likely that the corporate PTB have decided that it's time for a Republican.

I agree with you that Rand Paul will run on all those things, appealing to the general mood of the country, which is sick and tired of war and the shredding of our Constitution.

I think Hillary will run ostentatiously to the right of him and is planned and expected to lose.

By then we will be embroiled in another war, and all promises of reining in the military or reducing the police state can be explained away as impossible for the time being, and we will instead receive more major privatization and gutting of social programs.

We are screwed no matter which is elected, because Hillary will have already run on all the things Rand Paul will end up actually doing.

The PTB have us by the throat, because they own both parties, and they will play us once again. If genuine, non-corporate, non-infiltrating Democrats had any power left in the party at all, Paul wouldn't have to be a problem. He wouldn't even have to be an afterthought.

People are drawn to these formerly fringe Libertarians and libertarian-style Republicans only because they say some of the right things re: reining in warmongering, curbing the drug wars, and stopping the outrageous surveillance state. Every poll shows that people across party lines despise their willingness to scrap social programs/gut Social Security. All Democrats would have to do to blow them away would be to re-embrace the principles and policies they were supposed to stand for all along but have abandoned since selling out to corporate interests: being the party that reins in Wall Street, ends the surveillance state and the police state, restores our Constitution, reduces inequality, ends the outrageous drug wars, and STRENGTHENS social safety nets.

But our party is purchased now by the same ones who own the Republicans, and that's not going to happen.

So corporate Democrats will threaten and bully that we must support Hillary in order to avoid Paul, and they will claim to be vindicated when Paul is a disaster for human beings. But the truth is that The PTB will pursue their agenda under either one of them. Hillary's ostentatiously Third Way/neocon/neolib campaign is designed and backed by corporatists to enable or even ensure the coming of Paul and the continuation of the corporate takeover of this nation.

[TheKentuckian]

35. and that is the way it is on August 23, 2014.

[FarPoint]

30. I will proudly vote for Hillary.

She is the one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. I'll vote for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot.

If there isn't one, I'll write one in.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[TheKentuckian]

36. No means no. Go fish.

[Wolf Frankula]

37. The Answers Are All Over the Board. That's What I expected

My differences with Hillary include: She is too close to the Wall Street Sharks who crashed the economy, She voted for the Iraq War, which was a stupid idea. She would give a blank check to Bibi Nuttyahoo and Likkud, and keep the US as Israel's bitch.

Nota: I do not expect Toilet Ted to run for President. And I know Tommy Toilet is just a comic character, but so is Toilet Ted. And Toilet Ted wanted to show that he is broad-something.

I do not expect the Repubs to pick Batshit for Veep. She is too crazy for the money boys who own the party.

I do not expect Ralf Rumplesuit to run for President, he is too old. And for the last twenty years, little Ralfie has been about publicity and attention for little Ralfie. He is the Left's Ann Coulter. And Maedhros, do you STILL think there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush? BTW Rev. Busybody is an immigrant from Mars and is green.

I will vote for Elizabeth Warren if she runs. She would be much better than HRC. My what-if assumed she was not running, or had been defeated in the primaries and had endorsed HRC in the interest of party solidarity.

In a two party system, effectively though not intentionally, if you do not vote for one party, you passively support the other.

I have no idea who will run in 2016. I am not a prophet.

The OP was a what if, not a prediction.

Wolf

Wolf

[Logical]

39. If she wins the nomination, I will vote for her but hold my nose doing it. nt

[Nye Bevan]

40. They huff and puff now, but they'll vote for Hillary if and when that time comes.

They know it, I know it, and Hillary knows it. "Green party"? Please. Who in their right mind would throw away their vote like that?

[whereisjustice]

44. which is exactly why citizens have ZERO leverage or access to politics

because as you admit, our votes are taken for granted, something that works for the benefit of the corruption at the core of both parties and has become the principal cause of our continued decline in quality of life.

"Hillary knows it"

Thank you for your small part in perpetuating the worst stereotype of arrogance and indifference that has come to define the Democratic Party.

When we vote to give the power and privilege and future millions that come from the office, we have every right to expect that person understands and works to improve our lives, not just a gilded class of entitled rich. The last 35 years have shown nothing could be further from that principal - whether measured as poverty, income disparity, wages, benefits, job loss, education and health care costs, the middle class continue to get fucked over no matter who is in office.

[mythology]

42. While she would not be my preferred candidate

I wouldn't have to hold my nose to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Given that the alternative is voting for a Republican, who will likely be somebody like Marco Rubio, or Rand Paul or Paul Ryan or some other putz, I'd be perfectly happy voting for her.

I don't expect any viable national politician to hold exactly my positions because frankly I couldn't get elected.

[nationalize the fed]

43. .

Posters here are constantly asking why people would vote against their own interests. Why would they?

If I voted for this former Goldwater Girl and my job was outsourced who would I blame?