After recent events, do you think you'd ever challenge a police officer?

[apples and oranges]

The most intriguing thing I saw this week was when the cop pointed his assault rifle at protestors and a man in the crowd, in response to the officer saying "Go Fuck Yourself," started referring to him as "Officer Go Fuck Yourself." The cop was clearly psycho and had a loaded assault weapon, but the guy in the crowd continued yelling and engaging the cop.

It's our right to do so, but is it smart, considering what we know now, if we want to live? I know it's impossible to know how we would react in the moment, but after seeing the horrifying behavior of police officers in Ferguson and nearby towns, I think I would be less likely to challenge a cop.

[annabanana]

1. I think he responded in EXACTLY the

right way.

Not sure I would have the guts...

[rock]

25. I do too

Do I need report what the final result of that incident was?

[Rex]

2. 3 things that you don't do when a cop pulls you over.

Don't lie to them. Don't make any sudden movements. Don't drive off thinking you will outrun the cop!

[IsItJustMe]

9. Yes Sir, No Sir, and thank you Sir.

If the cop is not having a bad day and you live through the experience, you will have your day in court. That seems to be a good attitude to have.

[Rex]

11. I am a white male and know most of the local PD.

And the number one thing I am always told is that cops HATE it when you lie to them. They will make something extremely hard, if you are untruthful.

[IsItJustMe]

13. I personally believe that your attitude is everything.

I you act like an ass, they will give it back to you a thousand fold.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. And, yet, in some areas the local PD are dependent on city government

where staffers, employees, elected officials and even their attorneys routinely lie to the populace in order to protect the ruses that go on in the backrooms.

[Rex]

19. In this small town it is all about making your weekly quota. nt

nt

[Baitball Blogger]

20. The legacy of small government policies, IMHO.

[pipi_k]

27. Exactly!!!

Mr Pipi is a retired cop himself.

Whenever he's been pulled over for speeding (which has happened a number of times), he always treats the cop with respect.

"Yes, officer". "No, officer".

When asked to show his license, he also pulls out his FID card (because he carries a small handgun). He keeps his hands visible at all times.

I've been with him a few times, so I know this.

When told why he was pulled over, he doesn't argue. Most times he knows why, and will readily admit it.

So far he hasn't gotten a speeding ticket, which, IMO, is sort of wrong. I wish he would...that might cure him of speeding.


Anyway, if a former LEO treats a cop doing his job with respect, then what gives any Tom, Dick, or Harry the idea he can act like an asshole?

It might not get the person out of a ticket, but it WILL make the encounter go a whole lot better.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Yes

Because as I'm writing/wrote in another thread this morning -

I truly believe it's going to take someone like me - an almost 'perfect victim' who is black - to change things.

[Hoyt]

4. Sometimes you gotta say "No, f*&K you" back. Make sure there are witnesses, though.

[Baitball Blogger]

18. Like the tiananmen square tank man

[hlthe2b]

5. I have--not with a gun pointed at me and I am not black....

But, cops really don't like having their errors pointed out--and for many, especially by a woman. But, they ultimately knew I WAS right, was not going to back down about the issue (dog locked in broiling hot car that they were only going to call animal control about, rather than get him out; had they delayed and waited for animal control, the dog would surely have died)...

Because a crowd was starting to form & to support my contention that they MUST act, they finally did. But the younger cop clearly didn't give a damn about a "dumb" dog and even less about an "uppity female" questioning his judgement. The older cop probably didn't either, but he was the "pragmatist" of the two and saw a losing argument with bad repercussions forming...

Now, I don't at all compare this to challenging a cop with a gun aimed at me... But, the fact is that if cops are not challenged, then gawd only knows what they will feel entitled and empowered to do....

[TlalocW]

12. Same here. Don't know how I would handle a gun being pointed at me

But some cops did try to intimidate me once, and I essentially mocked them to their faces, and they left me alone. I also realize if I were a Black male, I probably wouldn't be able to get away with that, but even as a Caucasian, I'm considering getting continually running video recorders for my vehicles because of all the stuff I've seen of cops pulling people over shows me that eventually none of us will be safe from them (if we're not already).

TlalocW

[MineralMan]

6. I wouldn't, at least with an enraged cop holding a rifle.

Wouldn't be prudent at that juncture, to quote someone mimicking someone else.

[Lee-Lee]

7. Here is a tip

You will hardly ever win the first encounter with a cop, even if they are wrong.

You are far, far more likely to make things worse for yourself.

Don't fight it out on the street.

Observe, comply, be honest (any recordings with you being dishonest or acting like an asshole don't help your case for the most part) record, document and beat them in court and in the court of public opinion if they are wrong.

Telling a bad cop to fuck off might feel good. Getting them fired or a bad policy changed won't give you that same rush in the moment, but it actually accomplished something.

[logosoco]

33. That tip helped me a few months ago.

I was walking in a store parking lot, holding both of my grandson's hands. We were on the painted walkway , and a cop almost backed up and hit us. I instinctively yelled out "Whoa! Watch it" and the cop looked at me very angrily and said "What did you say?" and my brain quickly said to itself "shut up" and I said "Nothing!". He knew he was in the wrong.

It's hard to do that, because I really wanted to let him have it, putting my grandsons in danger, but I knew I would be the one ending up in trouble.

[Lee-Lee]

35. I hope you followed up with a report to the department

While it may even have seen minor, it goes on the record and it could help supervisors detect a pattern

[logosoco]

37. I did not. But that is a good point to remember

Because I am thinking cops may just get more and more aggressive.

[IsItJustMe]

8. No

Last edited Fri Aug 22, 2014, 11:06 AM - Edit history (1)

[riqster]

10. Nope. Nor anyone pointing a loaded weapon at me.

Wait the crazy fucker out and deal with it in court.

Now, if a cop assaulted me, I cannot say that my brain would think faster than reflexes, so it's hard to say if I could always be that level-headed. But in the situation as described in the OP, I would have backed off and gone after the psycho via legal and media means, after the gun was no longer an immediate threat.

Be it a cop or a crook, you go along with the guy with a gun, until he puts it away. You can't dodge a bullet.

[dilby]

16. You challenge if you want to be a corpse.

When you get harassed by a cop first thing you do is tell them you wish to remain silent, the end. If they ask to search you or your vehicle just say they do not have your authorization to perform that. Finally you ask them if you are under arrest, if they say no, ask if you can leave. Once they tell you that you are not under arrest you have the right to leave.

Obviously there are some caveats, if you are driving you are required to show a drivers license and insurance, if you were pulled over for a traffic violation you have to accept the ticket, you are not required to exit the vehicle, if asked tell them you wish to remain in the vehicle unless you are being arrested. At that point the cop has to decide does he want the extra paper work or to let you remain in the vehicle. Never, ever exit your vehicle for a field sobriety check, even stone cold sober you will fail unless you are a gymnast, if the cop wants to perform that your best option is to let them arrest you and take the breathalyzer test at the station.

If you are a passenger in a vehicle or you are walking down the street you are not required to show ID unless it's a state law, states vary so check yours. You are required to give your full name but that is it, don't lie to the cops period. Don't act superior to the cops, don't argue with the cops, don't tell a cop you know your rights. Cops who feel challenged are the cops who shoot you, if you want to say the cop was being a prick save it for the Judge, Judges know cops are assholes and if you can show you did nothing wrong you will be fine at least here in Oregon.

If you want change you don't challenge the police, what we need to do is to stop any time we see a cop interacting with another citizen, pull out our cameras and start recording. If cops are being recorded by citizens every time they make a traffic stop or harass a citizen that will get change faster than anything else.

[CBGLuthier]

26. Thank you for a dose of real genuine advice. Too many people ignore this or think it does not matte

because they did nothing wrong.

[dilby]

28. Problem is no one knows if the really did anything wrong. There are a ton of laws on the books and

good chance you have broken at least one that day, it's best to keep your mouth shut. The cop knows law better than most citizens but a lawyer knows it better than a cop and a Judge knows it better than a lawyer so just let it go to the top and get it settled. Opening ones mouth is the quickest way to lose in court, you could get hit with some random bullshit law you had no idea about.

[librechik]

17. my dad was cop for 35 years. Every day I pray I don't encounter a situation

where law enforcement gets involved.

I didn't like hanging out with my dad and his buddies all that much either...

[Shrike47]

21. I would not challenge a police officer but I would not get down on the ground for anybody.

Once there, I can't get up. Haven't been able to for years.

[VanGoghRocks]

22. I watched the video of this exchange many times. I am convinced that

we were about 5 seconds away from another tragedy unfolding had that other LEO not come and ushered Officer Go Fuck Yourself away. Clearly Albers (Officer Go Fuck Yourself) was experiencing a stress-induced break of some sort, although I'm not sure I'd call him 'psycho,' more like in full 'fight-or-flight' hyper-adrenaline mode surrounded as he was on all sides by protesters and journalists mostly unsympathetic to him and the causes he represents.

Although I don't think I can tell you what I would do in the "heat of battle" -- I don't take well to people shouting at me, for example, and never have -- I don't think these events have changed my responses much.

Good question though. Thought provoking.

[wildeyed]

23. More likely.

But I am also white, female and middle class so the risk is much lower.

[CBGLuthier]

24. I would rather die on my feet than live upon my knees: Emiliano Zapata

Cower to illegitimate authority. Fuck no.

But then again I have always been more than a little suicidal.

[merrily]

29. What is your point?

They asked the cop his name. He responded "Go Fuck Yourself."

So, the guy, in addressing him, referred to him as Officer Go Fuck Yourself.

So, what is your point? Is it that the guy who referred to the cop as Officer Go Fuck Yourself after the cop said that was his name is the one in the wrong?

[uppityperson]

30. I spent over 10 min yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir ing a cop a few years ago

My crime? He said I pulled out too close in front of someone several blocks back but what really set him off and showed me I needed to continue my politer than I ever thought i could be yes sirring was... I did not know the name of a street. "you live here, you have to know the street names!"

I did not dare ask if I could go or was under arrest, just kept yes sir no sir I apologize sir over and over and over untilhe glared and said "you have a brake light out". Thank you sir, I will stop at the autoparts store ext. Glare, drive off. I went shaking into the art gallery I had parked outside of where the 4 people inside were watching and asked wtf wasTHAT about. The thought I was going to get tazed, the cop was so irate.

I still don't know all the street names. There was no way I was going to move, turn, talk back, anythingas he was just going off.

A month later, was pulled over for an after dark check, license plate light is out, no,don't get out to check stay in your car bullshit line.

Since then, I am reluctant to engage them anywhere, look past them and would in no way challenge one unless I knew him personally and he knew me personally.

I "had to know" the street names? what?

[BillZBubb]

31. If there are not a lot of witnesses, no.

You never know what will set a cop off and they know they can get away with just about anything. Better to live to fight another day.

[conservaphobe]

32. I challenge no one with a propensity for violence.

Which is usually anyone who packs heat.

But that's the point of packing heat I suppose... making those who don't subservient to you... whether in an official or unofficial capacity.

[meaculpa2011]

34. I popped off to a New York City Highway Patrolman in 1980.

He stopped me because I was riding a motorcycle (it has happened many times). He wrote me six tickets. All were dismissed.

During every subsequent stop, and there have been many, I provided documents and kept my mouth shut. No tickets.

Years later I got stopped on the water while riding my jetski (it has happened many times) by the Freeport Village Bay Patrol. He was in a foul mood and so was I.

I popped off and he wrote me eight tickets. All but one were dismissed.

[damnedifIknow]

36. Getting a ticket is one thing

and if I'm in the wrong I have no beef with that but when they come to your door asking if I called them and then saying they have the wrong address while hanging out talking with me for five to ten minutes then that's another. That flat out pissed me off and I'm sure the officer knew I wasn't happy about this. Wrong address? Move on and find out who really called. I guess I need a sign saying no I didn't call and never will.