Oops, full footage of store-cam shows that Michael Brown paid for the cigarettes...

[DetlefK]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/

[Hooked_n_Looped]

1. I'm sure it will hit the major networks any moment now...

Aaaaaany moment...

*begins to whistle and rock on the balls and heels of my feet*

[In_The_Wind]

15. Hey there Hooked_n_Looped ...

[merrily]

2. Does it matter? Is stealing cigarillos or whatever they were

a waiver of your constitutional rights? Skip the charges, right to counsel, right to confront witnesses, etc. right to proof beyond a reasonable doubt--and go straight to the death penalty?

If so, why do we bother having a Bill of Rights? To keep the NRA in business?

Yes, it is telling that he paid. Also telling that the video was released selectively. (Also telling of how scared the store owner was, to say only that he never reported a theft, instead of saying Brown paid). But, someday, a video of another dead kid will show that there indeed was a petty theft or even a grand theft. And that kid won't deserve an instant death penalty, either.

It doesn't matter. The bill of rights is there for those who do commit crimes, or at least commit acts that the government du jour considers a crime, as well as for those who never pull any string of the social fabric.

[LisaL]

6. Paid? Where does this video show him paying?

I am just curious as I don't see anything like that in the video.

[merrily]

8. Maybe ask the OP. I am the one who said it didn't matter if he paid or not.

[LisaL]

16. Well, I did.

Ask the OP. Still waiting for an explanation. Should I hold by breath?

[merrily]

19. How long ago did you ask the OP?

And why does the OP's failure to respond to you as fast as you would like, make it my job to respond to you on a point that I said doesn't matter?

[sabrina 1]

89. From the beginning it looked like he paid, returning what he hadn't paid for, as did his friend.

It was wrong for the media to simply put that video out there without knowing what was going on.

I have also read that the store personnel did not call the cops and report a theft. It was a customer who did so.

I have also read that the store has stated he did pay for the cigarillos.

The point is, there is no way to tell from that video, released by the Ferguson police with the intention of smearing the victim, what was happening and until it was clear, it should not have been released.

[merrily]

91. No matter what, the police should not have released video.

It's not as though they had to make it public in order to apprehend a perp.

That is the only excuse for police making public a video that portrays any citizen in a bad light. (Releasing something in respone to an FOIA request is different.)

[PotatoChip]

105. Sabrina, could you -or anyone- who has good quality sound on their computer, please

listen to this video? It is a version that Fox used. There are 2 guys in the background, I can't hear all of what they are saying, but it sounds as if they are in the process of editing it. I think?... There is a part where they say something to the effect of "stop it there, rewind it just a tad"... After that, it goes to the altercation in front of the door. I don't know if these background guys are Fox news people, the Ferguson police, or someone else???

Notice, btw that there are 2 different cameras being used. One has a time and date stamp, while the other angle is missing (smudged) out?

Other things seem 'off' about this video as well, though I'm not sure what, exactly. It seems faster, (or something?) in comparison with the other one I found.

I think the version below might be the original. Especially since no one had yet merged the 2 camera angles. Plus, the date and time stamps are on both camera angles and are much easier to see. That bit alone is more consistent with what little I know of security camera footage.

The person who uploaded it to YouTube titled it 'Robbery or Dispute'?... which seems an apt question in regard to this version (as opposed to the first video).

There is no YouTube publish date on this one, but it only has 1,600-some views which leads me to believe it has not been out very long.

ETA: There is a publish date of Aug 15... I have no idea how I didn't see it.

In any event, none of this should even be relevant, but unfortunately, TPTB are determined to distract people w/a smear campaign against Mike Brown just as they did w/Trayvon... The release of the video (whatever version) is proof enough of that.

[jwirr]

78. He is standing at the checkout counter - what is he doing there? You do not shoplift and then go

show your purchases to the checkout clerk.

[merrily]

80. Good point, but maybe have that convo with LisaL and hexola.

Me, I think no good is going to come of focusing on whether he paid or not. Even if he overpaid, no good is going to come of it.

[jwirr]

81. Oh I agree with you on that. He is dead - that fact cannot be changed. And it is also not relevant

to the shooting case.

[merrily]

83. Yet, some people, even at DU, seem to want to press home that he did steal.

Why?

[jwirr]

85. I think some are seeing it as some kind of justification for the shooting - they are wrong.

[merrily]

87. Either seeing it that way or hoping they can make someone else see it that way.

[jwirr]

77. It matters to the parents whose son is being demonized.

[merrily]

97. Of course it does. That is why no one should have released the video in the first place.

Obviously, I meant it should not matter as to his getting shot. Whether he stole a few cigarillos or not is irrelevant to that.

[demigoddess]

94. It matters to his reputation

a dead man should not be smeared, even if it doesn't matter in the case of the cop shooting. It matters that we do not smear the dead with lies.

[merrily]

98. Of course. Please see my replies 91 and 97.

[hexola]

3. Nonsense using this video determine theft...

The store owner is the one who has the story...until we hear that - this is rubbish.

[merrily]

9. The store owner has claimed that he never reported a theft.

That is what is relevant to what Wilson thought.

[LisaL]

10. Because customer was the one who called 911.

[merrily]

22. Again maybe you should address that to the poster who said we have to hear from the store owner,

rather than to me, who only responded to that poster.

[hexola]

11. which is a world of difference from "he didn't steal anything..."

You can't just assume because it wasn't reported - that nothing happened.

Maybe he didn't report it because he knew a customer already did...?

[LisaL]

12. It was reported. By a customer.

[BklnDem75]

26. According to police, it was called in at 11:51...

According to the police report, the incident started at 11:52:58 and ended 11:54:00. So did the customer call it a robbery before anything happened?

[hexola]

28. What did the customer call it?

I havent seen any interviews with this customer...

[LisaL]

30. Are you surprised customer isn't giving interviews?

[BklnDem75]

38. According to the police report...

It reads: I received a call for a stealing in progress.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/ferguson-police-report

[hexola]

41. Is it common practice in Police reports to refer to black males as "B/M"s?

One observation from reading it...

[Nay]

47. Yes, it is. BM, WM, WF, BF, etc.

[hexola]

45. I wish they would do those redactions so you can keep the characters straight.

Ok with the privacy - but use some generic terms to keep the action followable.

[merrily]

31. I assumed nothing. YOU are the one who said we had to hear from the store owner.

You are the one who posted, as to whether there had been a theft or not:

The store owner is the one who has the story...until we hear that - this is rubbish.

I merely pointed out that we had already heard from the store owner, a fact that you did not seem to be aware of when you posted your Reply 3.

Maybe he didn't report it because he knew a customer already did...?

Yes, I, too, read LisaL's post, made after your Reply 3.

As I have been saying all along, it should not matter whether Brown stole a handful of cheap tobacco from a store or not.

I don't know what agenda you and LisaL have, but it does not involve my thoughts on this matter, so I will leave you two on your own from here on out.

[JoePhilly]

34. We should always assume "guilty" first.

We teach that in our schools, right?

[cleduc]

40. They claimed they never called 911 but

from the police reports
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdf

they reported a theft to the officer who responded to (apparently) a patron calling 911

Watch the video and convince me the retailer was just thanking Mike Brown (allegedly according to Dorian Johnson) for his business.

If Brown did pay for something, maybe he bought one pack of cigarillos and stole 10 more. Who knows yet? Dorion Johnson said Mike had his hands full of cigarillos when the trouble with Wilson started.

I don't think one has to be a rocket scientist to figure out there was an unusual problem at that store that looked like some sort of theft and the police reports show the store employees claimed theft of cigars.

[Rex]

51. Okay so why didn't the store owner call police to report a theft?

Oh right, because none occurred.

[Travis_0004]

72. store may not call the police for every theft

I worked at Lowes for several years and we almost never called the police for theft.

[Rex]

74. Or there was no theft and that is why the store owner did not call.

Were is the transcript of the customer calling in?

[Travis_0004]

90. Dorian Johnson admitted it was a theft.

[Rex]

95. That's nice, but Brown didn't get a chance to.

So Dorian could be lying or was coerced, either way there is no record of a crime or report.

[Hooked_n_Looped]

99. That's the biggest reach I've seen on this topic yet...

Wow...

[Rex]

100. Not at all, where is the crime report?

I'll wait until you go find it.

[Hooked_n_Looped]

108. When I'm talking about reaching I was referring to the idea that Brown

... Was coerced into stealing from that store. Was he also forced to push the shop owner around?

Secondly, according to your logic if someone is shot in the head, buried in the woods and no one files a report about it, then no crime had been committed.

Totally setting aside the fact that we have it on video.

What you are free to do is debate how much of an effect it had on the situation few minutes later that lead to Brown's death.

[Rex]

110. I didn't say that at all, you just misunderstood me obviously.

There is no crime report and there is no evidence of theft, so you have no crime no matter how much you would like to have one. Sorry but that won't work.

[Hooked_n_Looped]

112. You obviously believe what you choose to believe...

... and evidence be damned.

Stuff like this is why Brown is getting smeared in the media.

[Rex]

113. No you just want to frame him for something he didn't do

Stuff like what YOU are trying to do is why Brown gets smeared in the media. But nice try anyway.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. This has to be placed here

Verified or not (not familiar with the site this is linked from) - but I really wish the store clerk would speak up and put an end to the question -

Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store. According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.

The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target, due to the Ferguson PD’s attempt to tie their store to the fateful shooting. A gross abuse of police authority, one which now puts someone else at risk.

Even if Michael Brown were a petty thief, this does not excuse the cold-blooded shooting death of the 18-year-old. Of course the right-wing took the robbery claim at face value, and began labeling Michael Brown as a ‘thug‘ who did not deserve due process.

But instead it looked like he was a teenager who was enjoying a few cigars which he purchased at the local store. The store owners did not claim he stole from them. Video evidence shows him paying for the cigars found on him. The police attempt to paint Michael Brown as anything but a victim is a complete and total fraud.

And I agree with merrily from a big picture p.o.v. - but in this case - this may be absolutely critical to how a Civil Rights trial may be go down.

[merrily]

17. Thanks for your agreement, Gen, but it should not matter how

this case goes down either. A civil rights case is based on whether Wilson, acting under color of state law--and a cop certainly does that---deprived Brown of any of Brown's federal rights, Constitutional or statutory. As I said in my post, most of the Bill of Rights has to do with accused criminals.

So, the issue is not what Brown did in that store or anywhere else. It's is whether the cop believed he (the cop) was in physical danger that only killing Brown could end.

Stealing a handful of cheap tobacco, whether Brown did so or not, should not be critical in that determination.

[ReRe]

18. Believe you me...

...that store owner has been interviewed. By many investigators, both local and federal, by now. They must have told him it would be better if he didn't comment. MOF, the investigators have probably talked to everyone who was in that store that day.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. What's interesting is that

It was an employee that reported the theft.


We'll find out in a few years what the true story was/is after a few more young men die this way - a lot more anger - vicious protests - amped up fear of local/state governments and their employees . . . we'll find out what really happened here.

Because anything this guy(s) is/are going to say is going to be said privately in the Grand Jury.

Maybe they'll be brave down the road.

[ReRe]

71. An employee?

I thought the popular meme was that it was a customer that called 911? (And I don't know about where you live, but you don't call 911 unless it's a life or death situation where I live.)

Right now, everything rests on the decision of the Grand Jury. If the GJ says no trial, then there's no trial and Wilson walks. If the GJ calls for a trial, then we will most definitely hear from the store owner, AND/or the customer who called the theft in.

Reminder: Don't believe everything you hear.

[merrily]

35. P.S. Look at the rest of this thread so far.

The issue for most posters on this thread so far is whether Brown was guilty of petty theft or not, not whether his federal rights were violated or not. I hope to heaven that any jury deciding the federal question does not also get it twisted.

[hexola]

39. Because we all AGREE his rights were viloated...that's not up for debate!

And, I'm not going to include a disclaimer on every post...

[merrily]

44. It is not up for debate? Really? Because it's been debated since he got shot.

And who is this "we" of whom you speak? All Americans? Not true All of of DU? Not true, either.

No one asked anyone to include a disclaimer in every post.

Look, as I said, I have no idea what your agenda on this thread is, but it has nothing to do with my thoughts on the matter.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. I hope so too

However - with a grand jury in play - I don't think they will.

I wish it was me merrily - seriously. I wish it was me. The "NSA Lady" at a major wireless carrier, commendations from the Federal Marshalls, FBI, etc. etc.

I wish it was this black woman, 41, wearing her J. Jill, Tieks, and carrying a bhaggy bag - who happened to be in the line of fire that day.

Maybe THEN - maybe THEN - people will understand.

I fear not - they'll just move the target and say I wasn't a 'real American' because I was born in West Germany and married an 'derned foreigner'.

^And when I type that^ It becomes clear EXACTLY what I think About America Today - WHAT we are. WHO we are. And how we are completely incapable of NOT thinking that some people are more equal than others.

And that goes across political spectrum - it's not just the IndieTeaPublican faithful who have this defect.

[merrily]

52. Geez, JGen wish it was nobody, not that it was you.

For whatever it's worth, I don't wish it was you. (And I don't even like the NSA or major carriers.)

Obviously, I don't wish it was Brown, either, but I don't wish it was you..

To change the mood for a second (hoping this puts a smile on your face for a second, as well as changing your way of wishing:

A physical issue prevents me from driving. One night, walking home from somewhere--don't recall---very tired ,I saw a line of limos outside a restaurant, waiting for their passengers to finish eating. And my first thought was, I wish I had a husband who could afford a limo for me.

A second later, I was Why in hell did I make such a sexist wish for myself? Why didn't I wish to make enough money to pay for a limo? That's a much better wish.

As I got into my home, the phone was ringing. So, I laughingly told the friend/caller what had just run through my mind.

She replied: "Yes, merrily, you must be more careful what you wish for. You might get it. And, after all, the wish fairy has no return counter."

[JustAnotherGen]

55. That does make me laugh!

For a lot of reasons!

Marriage stuff! Just yesterday I was thinking how easy it would be to NOT be married. And it has to do with my husband's magical mythical world where I'm a MAGICIAN! :laugh: Things just 'happen' for The Gio. It's - it's just - it's magical.

[merrily]

63. Is that really what you want, though?

You are married, so you are probably the marrying kind (if there is such a thing.) So, do you really want to be single? No dates for all those business and social functions? No one to be proud when you come home with a new commendation? Is that your heart's desire?

I don't mean to be unkind but I really don't think you are getting the hang of this wishing thing.

True, the wish fairy has no return counter. And that is fair, because the wish fairy charges no more for big wishes than for little ones.

What if you could keep your wonderful husband AND not be the magician?

Maybe you can teach him to make some magic on his own. Or, maybe you and he can figure out a way you can afford an assistant who makes magic happen for the two of you? There are people who do this, either as full time employees or chore by chore.

Anyway, I think getting the hang of wishing means you don't wish for your own death or your own divorce or widowhood.

Just a thought.

[JustAnotherGen]

84. But - I married at 39

A few of my friends - two actually- had dreams a week before my wedding where I was crying! Like - they called me in the middle of the night to make sure I was okay! :laugh:

Shhhh - There's some truth to that. I strongly identified as a single woman - even had an ezine focused on single women 35 and older for a few years. A total loss of an identity that actually made me money. That and writing in the relationship sphere for men (never give my name away) and ghost writing for a dating guru for professional women - I lost an entire line of business. Dayum!

But in all honest - - I married him because he was the heated car fairy and snow removal fairy -

Like - 4 weeks after we met. He Would drive five miles out of his way to brush off my car - and my first Christmas gift from him? A remote car starter! Who says romance is dead - keep your jewelry! Give me heat!


I don't know about the commendation and work stuff . . . here's the thing no one tells successful single women who are financially independent past maybe - the age of 30 . . . The man who you want to marry - could care less about what you do. They marry you because of how you make them feel.

Totally off topic here - but he feels good when the eternal bachelor who married at 44 -

Walks into the kitchen.
There is magically dinner at the breakfast bar.
It was magic the way it got into the house.
It magically was cooked.
It magically appears on a plate.



He's also the dish cleaning fairy! Because I'm not super woman and I can't do it all.

[merrily]

86. All the more reason. You did not rush into marriage before you

knew what was what.


Sounds like a lot of magic in your marriage, from you and from him. And a lot of love and pride in the spouse, too. Makes me all mushy just reading your post and I am not the mushy type. Well, not the type who ever admits to being mushy, anyway.

Good wishes to you both.

[Dustlawyer]

46. While this is irrelevant to MB being shot and killed, since it was posted I would add that the last

thing that store owner would ever do, now confronted with whether he called police to report a theft is admit he called. His business is right there in the heart of that community and he is behind the counter. It would be insane for him to admit he called the cops, he would have to have a death wish!
I didn't see MB get money out or change back. The owner is pissed enough to confront the big kid! We all do stupid shit when we are 18, and maybe MB liked to throw his weight around. Who is to say he would not have matured into a fine upstanding part of the community a few years down the line, except now he will never be given the chance. I refuse to dismiss the the things that don't support some sort of narrative, that MB was saintly.
But I am also not going to say that this incident had anything to do with the shooting. Wilson was pissed they were walking down the middle of the street, he got more pissed when his attempt to get out of the car and it ricochet back into him. He lost his damn mind when he was struck in the struggle after he grabbed MB. I believe that this makes the most sense.

[LisaL]

5. How does it show him paying for anything?

Store owner didn't deny that it was a robbery either. Even if it was reported by a customer and not the clerk.

[blkmusclmachine]

42. You a cop?

[LisaL]

43. None of your bisness.

[Logical]

88. Sure it is! Motive! nt

[SaltyBro]

7. Ha ha ha!!!

There goes the right wing meme out the door! I knew Michael wouldn't have just stolen from the store!

[procon]

13. The store owner never reported a theft

That appears to support the possibility that no theft had occurred. From the article at the link, it notes that "the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store."

[LisaL]

14. The customer did.

So the argument here unless the store owner himself calls police, no theft occurred?

[hexola]

24. How you know what the customer saw? The theft...the scuffle?

You dont know what the customer saw - or reported.

[LisaL]

25. And you do?

If there was no robbery, once police showed up, the store employees would have said as such. Isn't that much obvious?

[hexola]

32. The point is the video shows nothing conclusive about a pay transaction

And there are better eyewitness accounts available (presumably)...

My critique is not about what happened - just the usefulness/quality of this video to make a conclusive determination that he paid for something...

[LisaL]

33. I personally don't see the video showing any paid transaction by

Michael Brown. Despite the claim in the OP.

[procon]

27. Yes, but what did the customer actually report?

Was it the customer's perception of a petty shoplifting, or was it the altercation between Brown and the store owner?

[Quayblue]

73. This is what I want to know.

And I'm not believing anything about a robbery being reported until this is clarified. What was said on that 911 call?

[JoePhilly]

37. The store owner would be the victim, who would have to press charges.

I'm sitting in a bagel place now.

If I call the cops and report that some one stole a bagel, the police come, and the owner of the store doesn't press charges, will the cops arrest the guy next to me, who I claim stole the bagel?

I doubt it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Somebody at the store told the police they were willing to press charges

And this happened on Wednesday after the shooting, so it wasn't the reporting customer.

Just saying.

[HooptieWagon]

54. I doubt it.

If the store was going to press charges, they would have willingly turned surveillance video over to police immediately. Police had to obtain the video by supeona, a week later. Doesn't sound like a victim eager to press charges.

[VanGoghRocks]

56. I appreciate your annotation, but it begs a further comment (I think). Somebody

at the store said he or she was willing to press charges AFTER MIKE BROWN WAS DEAD???

Pressing charges against a dead man? To what end??? To put in place one of the building blocks for the 'justifiable homicide' story???

God, this is feeling like a JFK-conspiracy story more and more (and I don't often go in for CT stuff).

BTW, did you ever come out with your Part II of your timeline\analysis? Your Part I totally rocked.

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. No, been busy

Yes, they checked the box for "Willing to Press Charges," even though Brown was already dead. I suspect it is some bureaucratic move to "clear" the case, but it is indeed fucked up.

[VanGoghRocks]

59. Because, yeah, Mike Brown did not deserve to be shot for stealing cigars under

any civilized system of justice.

But, if Mike Brown did steal the cigars (as 'pressing charges' would tend to go towards establishing although not proving), it might go to Mike Brown's state of mind in his encounter with the shooter Wilson

That is, Wilson initially thinks he is warning Brown about jaywalking. But Brown thinks he's about to be popped by Wilson for theft, even though Wilson may not have even known about the theft. Brown's guilty awareness of his theft might have prompted Brown to communicate or otherwise interact with Wilson in ways that a purely innocent man might not have.

I do not believe what I just wrote above, am merely gaming out how Wilson's defense might frame the events. For the frame to work, a theft would have to have occurred, in order for Brown to have a 'guilty conscience.'

But in order for a theft to have occurred, someone has to say that a theft occurred. Or otherwise it's just the smearing of a dead man who is no longer able to defend himself. Hence, they HAVE to get someone to press charges, even if that effort takes place AFTER the supposed perpetrator is DEAD. (I thought there was a principle in Western jurisprudence that the 'offense dies with the man.' But I may be mis-remembering.)

Looking forward with bated breath to your Part II.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. I f I was 18 and just stole something and a cop pulls up on me

I run. I don't walk over and start jabbering.

It's one of the very odd elements of this story.

There were literally two cop cruisers canvasing the area within 500 yards of the shooting, looking specifically for Brown and Johnson.

It's very difficult to establish consciousness of guilt for the assault when they displayed zero consciousness of guilt in their other behaviors.

[VanGoghRocks]

69. More to the point, were I a federal DoJ investigator in town, I'd be

looking very suspiciously at the effort to press charges against Brown for theft (or even against an unnamed 'UnSub,' to use Criminal Minds parlance) as evidence of a possible police conspiracy to obstruct justice by trying to create a plausible frame for Wilson after the fact.

I'd be grilling whatever officer returned to that store after Brown's death to ask why he or she was following up so conscientiously on a nominally petty theft.

Time is way past for a special prosecutor to come in. McCulloch must first recuse himself (a whole other fabric of knavery and chicanery there) and only public pressure will force him to do so.

[LisaL]

70. Well, would you walk in the middle of the street?

Obviously odd element was there before the cop even showed up, no?

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. Yes, it's odd...it doesn't display a consciousness of guilt for the most part

They are not hiding. They are not avoiding the police. They walked up W. Florissant at a leisurely pace. They walked up the middle of the street up Canfield (or were crossing...I don't really know what they were doing in the street). A lone cruiser was coming at them (westbound), not from behind, so they must have seen it coming at a distance that would have allowed evasion. Yet they didn't duck, they didn't run, they didn't evade, nothing. If anything, they conversed with Wilson as if nothing was wrong.

What does this tell us?

They are absolutely brazen, OR, they didn't see the events at Ferguson Market & Liquor as a big deal OR they didn't see what happened at FM&L as even illegal OR they didn't believe what happened at FM&L had been or would be reported OR they were attempting to disguise their guilt by acting naturally OR...

Lots of possible explanations.

[azmom]

107. During an interview his friend

Stated that the officer seemed intent in stopping them from doing (he then catches himself) and says whatever he thought we were going to do. Maybe they told the officer they were heading home to smoke weed and that's what made Wilson come back and say"what did you say? After that, I think he went on a rage after the door slammed back into his face. I don't think wilson ever made the connection to the stolen cigars,

[alcibiades_mystery]

109. I'm not convinced Wilson ever heard that call at all

[Rex]

111. The story that he did hear the call was recanted later by the FPD CoP.

Wilson had no idea about the issue with the convenience store. If there ever was one.

[merrily]

82. Good point.

Why did anyone even ask, "Are you willing to press charges against Brown?"


that question is implied, I think, in the wording. People don't usually say, "I did not report this 011, but I am willing to press charges." They would say "But I want to press charges."

[ybbor]

21. All though it doesn't matter if he stole cigars or not...

Michael Brown's friend with him in the video admits they stole the cigars.

I have watched the video at least a dozen times and cannot for the life of me see him pay, and lord knows I wish I could.

But that doesn't matter! He did not deserve to be shot dead!

This video is just an attempt to smear him. Big deal! He stole some crappy cigars. Petty theft does not earn a death sentence.

This video is taking away from the injustice committed by the police 10 minutes later.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. Your line 3 is the important one.

Whether or not he stole anything is entirely beside the point.

He did nothing for which he deserved to be shot to death.

[IsItJustMe]

57. I agree. Hard to stay focused on what really matters.

I like the way you have hung in there though, trying to focus rather than being refracted.

[justiceischeap]

23. Dorian Johnson already admitted that they took the Cigarellos

Maybe Brown paid for some of them but there was a theft at the store by Brown.

That in no way makes what happened to him right or excusable but the theft DID happen--why would Johnson lie to the FBI about it?

[Ms. Toad]

36. First - Johnson admitted the theft

Second - please review the tape from the point at which you can see both of Brown's hands empty behind his back to the point at which he leaves the counter and tell me the time at which either money appears in his hand, or he puts his hands in his pockets (or anywhere else he might be carrying money) in order to get the money to pay for the cigarillos.

Third - that footage has been out there since the same day the rest was released.

He doesn't have to be innocent of robbery for us to be outraged that he was gunned down.
He doesn't have to be innocent of robbery for us to be outraged that he police released the tape before they even told us who fired teh shots that killed him, in order to try to make us think less of him.

Insisting that he was innocent & framed just plays into the meme that police were justified in shooting him because he was a thug. And if we encouraged the world's outrage to be premised on Brown being a perfect angel, by working so hard to remediate every bad thing that is suggested about him - especially when the person he was with acknowledges it was a theft, what does that mean for the next time police gun down someone who is flawed (as we all are).

[ybbor]

50. Yes!

I am with you on all of this.

This video is as relevant of one showing Michael riding a bicycle.

It does not matter one bit to what happened to this unarmed young man.

[L0oniX]

49. Well it's good that it wasn't donuts being stolen or the pigs would have to nuke the whole town.

Human life is so devalued that we are less than the materials we use ...or steal.

[Rex]

60. Oops!

Wow.

[B Calm]

61. I watched this video 4 times now and I don't see where he paid for

anything. Too bad there's no audio, because there is something going down. Other customers are alarmed too. Then there's also the video of the store clerk chasing after him to the front door, and being shoved around by Michael Brown. The video is devastating to the Michael Brown defense. It clearly shows a big bully thinking he can do any damn thing he wants.

But that said, Michael Brown had a clear arrest record and do some cops murder young black men for no reason? Hell yes they do! I just don't think this video is helping!

[LisaL]

65. I watched the video numerous times and I don't see

him paying either. It appears this video is circulating and people posting it claim it shows something it actually does not show at all.

[WCLinolVir]

64. I see him reaching in the counter area, what I don't see is money changing hands.

And why does he need to reach so far into the counter area? He then gives a box of something to his friend who puts it down. And the throat grab? That is a new way to shake hands I guess. This BS does not help anyone. Get real.
And as for the store reporting the theft, they are probably afraid of being targeted by people. Does not take a genius to see that someone who would grab someone by the throat over some cigarillos has bad impulse control, poor judgment, and can be violent.

[LisaL]

67. I think he is reaching for items behind the counter.

Stores usually keep their cigars and cigarettes behind the counter as they are the items that would be most likely stolen otherwise.
I don't see him reaching for money, or any money exchange taking place, despite the claims in the OP.

[WCLinolVir]

75. Yeah I think so too, since he comes up with cigars in his hands.

DJ already admitted theft, so what is point of OP?

[Demit]

79. Maybe he is pointing at what he wanted.

When I was a smoker, and asked for a certain brand of generic cigs, sometimes I would see where they were in the rack before the clerk did. Leaning over the counter, I could point more precisely to exactly where they were.

There is no way to say, from a silent video, with a constricted viewpoint, that there is only one explanation for what transpired. If it does go to trial, the lawyers for each side will have come up with different plausible interpretations of the few actions this video shows.

[samsingh]

66. unbelievable - we can't believe anything from the media or the police any more

[LisaL]

68. What can you learn something from?

Did you actually watch the video?

[onenote]

104. I don't think LisaL's response was cold and I think your comment is uncalled for

LisaL did not in any way suggest, hint, imply, or otherwise convey the sentiment that Mike Brown "deserved the death penalty." Rather, LisaL asked the question, perfectly appropriate in a thread whose OP is about whether the video of the convenience store shows Brown paying for the cigarillos, as to whether the previous commenter had viewed the video.

It would be better if DUers could avoid attacking other DUers as defending the police when those other DUers are doing nothing of the sort.

[Aerows]

92. Don't you have to be 21 to buy tobacco products?

The altercation at the counter could have easily been that Michael Brown didn't have proof that he was 21 (since he wasn't).

Obviously, it wouldn't have mattered if he DID steal the tobacco - I'm just pointing out that it is absolutely impossible to know what really happened from that video. He was at the counter, that is for certain, and people usually don't go up to the counter in front of God and everybody and then proceed to rob a store unarmed. Maybe that's just me. It easily could have been words exchanged over him not being 21.

I don't care if he took the whole display of tobacco, though, or smoked a dozen cigars. None of that has anything to do with him being executed in the street.

[Rex]

96. 18

I think there was some issue with Brown not having his ID on him.

[KansDem]

106. I wondered the same thing...

Could he have bought tobacco there before with ID but this time didn't have it?

Maybe that was what the altercation with the store employee was all about. Angry that he was required to show ID that he had shown before, he just grabbed his merchandise and walked to the door prompting the employee to confront him.

But I agree: people usually don't go up to the counter in front of God and everybody and then proceed to rob a store unarmed. Maybe that's just me. It easily could have been words exchanged over him not being 21. Maybe it was all about his not having on him the ID that he had with him on previous visits.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

93. There's nothing new in this video that's been around for a week. nt

[onenote]

103. Of course it does't matter whether he did or did not steal the cigarillos

But since the OP claims that the video paid for them, I figured I'd watch it carefully. And I don't see any sign of him paying for anything What I see is the following: Brown reaching over the counter and either taking or being handed (can't tell) a package which he hands to Johnson. Brown leaning over the counter again, and then reaching in further and coming out with a display package of cigarillos, several of which fall to the ground. He then places the package back on the counter and Johnson puts the package he was handed back on the counter. Brown then picks up several of the individual packages that fell on the floor while he was handling the display package and leaves with those package in his hands.

Since there is no audio, it is impossible to put what the video shows in any clear context.