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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDOJ Allows Bank of America to Deduct $12 Billion of $17 Billion Settlement
Bank of America will pay roughly $4 billion less to the government after-tax than the $16.65 billion it agreed to in a settlement over soured mortgage securities, because parts of the settlement will be tax deductible, the bank said Thursday.
The bank has already taken some of the savings from the settlement's tax deductions in previous quarters, so the savings won't all come in the current third quarter. But tallying the total tax savings to roughly $4 billion "would be fair," a bank spokesman said.
Federal law allows companies to deduct large portions of the costs of settling with federal agencies on their tax returns. But that effectively shifts part of the settlement's burden to taxpayers, and some lawmakers and consumer advocates have expressed concerns that the public can be misled when regulators tout giant settlement amounts that companies aren't fully paying. ...
Fines and penalties imposed as part of a settlement can't be deducted, so that knocks out the $5.02 billion in fines Bank of America agreed to pay. But other amounts paid can be deducted as ordinary business expensesincluding the $4.63 billion in compensatory payments that Bank of America agreed to pay, and the costs it incurs in providing $7 billion in mortgage modifications for struggling homeowners and other consumer relief.
"Criminal and civil fines are not deductible, but pretty much everything else is," said Robert Willens, a tax and accounting expert who has his own firm, Robert Willens LLC.
That means that up to $11.63 billion of the settlement would be deductible, depending on how much the bank incurs in costs associated with the consumer relief. With a corporate tax rate of 35%, that suggests savings of $4.07 billion. Bank of America said last month that it expects an effective tax rate of about 31% for the second half of 2014, absent any unusual items, and that would suggest savings of about $3.6 billion.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2014/08/doj-allows-bank-of-america-.html
Good thing it wasn't an alleged box of cigars
valerief
(53,235 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Yurbud nailed it with that OP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025424969
merrily
(45,251 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)who controls government? And if government is so corrupt as to be controlled by wealth, why do we keep re-electing the same bunch?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)No American should vote for corporate politicians, but by the time most Americans get ballot in hand, those are the only names they recognize. They are supported by the system and the media, other options systematically crushed or locked out, *and* they lie about what they stand for. We saw a masterful con job in 2008.
Most Americans are working desperately to survive. When they get home exhausted at the end of the day, the corporate media tells them that their Red or Blue party is working for them and must be supported, and the Other Party is the problem.
When government is controlled by wealth, the election process is also controlled by wealth. Our corporate vultures have been systematically rigging the system for decades: access to debates, access to media, debate formats, balloting, gerrymandering, incessant and interactive propaganda online, corporate media juggernauts to elevate and destroy and divert to the corporate narrative of the day.
This country is propagandized as thoroughly as North Korea, IMO. Most Americans still think we are a democracy, but we aren't.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Someone sure keeps re-electing the same people.
Even though they can get much better paying jobs if they leave office (guess why) they stay until they get voted out, determine they can't win the next primary or keel over, like Thurmond and Byrd. Must be a hell of a great job, much more so than even the comfortable salary and nice fringe benefits would suggest.
Why do keep re-electing incumbents? The so-called two party system for one thing. The fact that the DNC and RNC mix into the primaries and support incumbents uber alles, for another.
Response to merrily (Reply #50)
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Response to merrily (Reply #50)
woo me with science This message was self-deleted by its author.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The administration and Democrats have been trying to close these loopholes, but unfortunately they exist, and they are merely upholding the laws.
The laws are injust, upholding injust laws are a gray area. You wouldn't want a state that fails to uphold just laws, so if the state is to be consistent, it must uphold all laws, be they injust or not.
The key is that the Democrats and the administration have been trying to get rid of these injust laws.
valerief
(53,235 posts)I vote for the most progressive candidate, which NEVER includes a Republican/Libertarian.
But we wouldn't have these bought-and-paid-for legislators without the very wealthy who buy them and their promotional propaganda. So these legislators come part-and-parcel with the very wealthy. Like private jets.
former9thward
(32,023 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Yes, current laws ALLOW settlement penalties to be tax deductible. However, the laws do not REQUIRE allowing this loophole in settlements. The Justice Department has the power to negotiate settlements that disallow the deductions. They did it with Credit Suisse. They could have done it here and with many other American banks, but they repeatedly choose not to.
Let's repeat that. They repeatedly choose not to. And the administration clearly has no problem whatsoever with that.
The DOJ has been the target of much criticism for not insisting that the settlements include the provision to disallow deductions. They are richly deserving of that criticism. People are sick and tired of the corruption.
The system is rigged and it reeks.
Actually, both parties have brought legislation to Congress pretending to want to fix the laws. Each and every time, the legislation dies, with bipartisan help when necessary. It's a slick con game, because not only can corporate-backed politicians conveniently help their corporate masters shift their fraud penalties to the very people they cheated and fleeced, but they can also then distribute shameless talking points claiming to have tried to help....just like the talking points you just attempted here. Your attempt to give the false impression that the law *requires* the DOJ to permit the loopholes is the dishonest icing on the propaganda cake.
It's a great, big illusion. It's a great big con game in the bipartisan oligarchy that is the United States of America. In the end, the banks win, and the people always lose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2238032
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Thanks for the link to the Greenwald article, too. He is saying what many figured out by observation, namely, that the Ford Theater had nothing on the D.C. Kabuki Theater that Congress performs for us folks back home.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)What you're proposing is that corporations, who want to profit above all else, would agree to a settlement that disallows them deductions. No, what they would do is take it to a lengthy, costly trial, and they'd still get the deductions because in the eyes of the law paying back a contested amount is not a penalty. The tax code forbids deductions on penalties, not on restitution.
S.1654 expressly denies corporations the ability to deduct on restitution, regardless of the penalties incurred. Of course, that law is not in the books, because the Republicans are blocking it, as per usual. And the Democrats get blamed for following the law and avoiding a lengthy trial that doesn't change the outcome one iota.
As far as foreign companies agreeing to settlements, it's pretty basic, they have no recourse in the US legal system as we'd ask for all of what is owed regardless. They settle to get it over with, not because they're gracious corporations following the DOJs demands.
Oh, and if you think a jury would somehow change the deductibility of a given claim, you should see Fresenius Medical Care Holdings Inc vs United States to see how utterly wrong that is. Juries are malleable when you have high profile very expensive lawyers.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Perhaps you should post under "political woo" instead.
What magical corporations would agree to a settlement that disallows them deductions under the law as it stands?
Shit, even Max Baucus was against corporations making deductions on restitution, in 2003. Over a decade ago. How about them apples? Oh wait, I forgot, all Democrats are the same, and no Democrat is against punitive actions against corporations. They're all corporate whores.
"Political woo" disappoints me, because it comes from the apolitical left who doesn't recognize or appreciate or even acknowledge Democrats trying to reign in corporations. It just lies and deceives, because it is so out of touch as to be laughable.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)Just a suspicion.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Charge them 17 billion then allow them to take $12 billion in deductions which is giving money right back to them which in the end comes out of our pockets again.
It's a stupid merry-go-round.
villager
(26,001 posts)Well, no. It's business as exactly usual.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I was so worried they might have to cut bonuses.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They had CONTRACTUAL rights to bonuses.
And here I thought that a bonus was something you got for great performance and was above and beyond the compensation to which you had a contractual right. That's why it's called a bonus?
Meanwhile, borrowers had contractual rights and rights given by law, too. However, the DOJ settled with the banks on that, too.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)In a greedy, rapacious, evil shit kind of way.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)They can hire lawyers, accountants, lobbyists and advisors of all other kinds whose day job it is to figure out this shit, while 350 million Americans are working two and three jobs to stay alive and maybe send their kids to college someday
And, because they buy and sell politicians, they are much, much less naive than most Americans. But no, not smarter than everyone else in America
And, by the way, guess whose money they are using?
closeupready
(29,503 posts)doesn't it?
merrily
(45,251 posts)definition of "bribery" is?
Hint. Not I and probably not you.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They are not posting, unless that helps fill their wallets.
they are not worried about the "War" on Women, unless that helps fill their wallets.
If anyone in their family needs contraceptives or an abortion or a job, they'll get one.
And so on.
Filling the wallet is the key to it all and they are laser focused on that.
They are not magpies who let the corporate media distract them with the latest headline because they are the ones telling corporate media what to do.
And so on.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Perhaps "smarter" didn't come across. That's the term they use for themselves. Not many people put that much effort into being evil (selfish maybe, but not where your job is basically fucking people over). They are too busy caring for their family and friends or perhaps even putting effort toward good causes.
I have met quite a few financial people and it became quite clear that money was the measure of everything. Those "masters of the universe" types are only good at cheating the system because it has been shown that a chimp is just as successful at predicting the market. They are a parasite on society.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I may not have known exactly what you meant, but I did know that you were not being literal.
I also thought, though, that making the points I made was important.
They really do believe that they are superior to the rest of us, whether it's brains, or education or work ethic, or all of the above. And, therefore they are entitled to live high on the hog off our money and the sweat of our brows, while we deserve nothing. I wanted to cut back against that "entitlement."
Not because I thought you needed the info, either. But maybe someone other you will read my reply and maybe he or she needs to read it.
One of many unfortunate side effects of bigotry and stereotypes is that the privileged folk start to believe their own bullshit. Even more unfortunate--so do the targets of the bigotry.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)What a moronic achievement.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Not that they think of it that way. But, it's true.
In a just society, we don't have some people who cannot get a bed at a shelter and some who are sleeping on $20,000 worth of bed linens--and that's only one set.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)simply sad.
merrily
(45,251 posts)A big difference: those who lost their homes--as the lenders knew they would---lost their own money, disrupted their own lives and the lives of their kids, and ruined their own credit. (And no one bailed them out, either.) Nothing like that happened to the lives of the people at Bank of America or Countrywide.
Wall Street vs. Main Street.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Once you get too big to fail, you get to play by different rules than everyone else.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)But, of course, no one recognizes that.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)these loopholes? Then why doesn't Obama fire Holder. Holder should be putting these assholes in jail when they broke the law instead of fining them with loopholes attached. The fine could stipulate that the loophole is not in effect when paying.
Obama could also use executive orders to close the loopholes but he won't do it.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And the President isn't a dictator and Holder can't arbitrarily rewrite law?
The laws don't allow them to "stipulate that the loophole is not in effect when paying." If the laws did then it wouldn't be a problem.
Executive orders don't change law, they only change federal level approaches to things, in this case the DOJ cannot override laws written by congress. It's the damn separation of powers.
Every time someone suggests things like you do, I understand, more and more, why people like dictatorships.
It's up to congress to close the loopholes. The administration has been trying to do that, and even offered up Social Security via Chained-CPI to close them. The Republicans didn't bite even with such a sacrifice! Because the loopholes are more important to them than anything else.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Once issued, an executive order has the force of law and can serve as the basis for challenges in court.
Current tax law is actually fairly clear about what part of a government settlement may or may not be deducted. Punitive fines and penalties can't be deducted; restitution and compensation can. But the Justice Department, unlike other federal agencies, does not always clearly spell out in its agreements how certain types of payouts should be classified. If Holder and the DOJ classified the type of penalty, then there wouldn't be a loophole the banks are using when paying a fine ("stipulate that the loophole is not in effect when paying."
The legislation proposed would force the government to clarify in advance how penalties and fines should be treated, thus heading off such future disputes. But JPMorgan could still be allowed to write off certain parts of its settlement as a business expense. A summary of the legislation mailed to reporters reads, in part: "Amounts paid by corporations, which constitute restitution for damage caused by the violation of any law, are exempted and remain deductible."
Holder could say in writing that the "penalty is a punitive fine, and not subject to restitution and compensation."
And I resent the implication that I would like a dictatorship.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Enjoy.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)You should stop pretending that the law requires the DOJ to permit the loopholes.
See post 40.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Using the word "try" or "trying" is a built in fail.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)If that tells board members anything
Let alone DU.
https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BAC+Interactive#symbol=bac;range=1y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)They did as told even though they did not want to and it hurt the company. Then they sue BoA for the corrupt practices of Merril and Countrywide.
Does that seem just?
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)"Why are we charging the stockholders instead of going after the people who did wrong? Corporations don't engage in criminal behavior. They don't take advantage of innocent people. People do,
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)They went to school together, eat at the same tasteful farm-to-table restuarants, send their kids to the same private playgrounds with Babadan nannies.
So the stockholders, you know those municipal pension funds from unfashionable states, get to foot the bill.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Orrex
(63,215 posts)Oh, wait. No I wasn't. Silly me--what was I thinking?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 22, 2014, 11:25 AM - Edit history (1)
We live in a corrupt oligarchy.
Initech
(100,080 posts)What happened in Ferguson was a tragedy and a wake up call. I wish people would get as passionate about the criminal banks stealing billions and getting away with it.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We are owned by criminals who have purchased the government we depend on to hold them accountable.