Having white privilege does not make you a bad person

[FrodosPet]

You have zero control over which pair of humans parented you.

You probably have next to zero influence over people and institutions of power.

But if you don't treat everyone with the same level of respect, THEN you are an asshole.

"White Guilt" does not help end racism. White respect for others is what will.

[hollysmom]

1. but acting as if you did something to deserve it and looking down on others who don't have it

will make you a very bad person.

[FrodosPet]

2. It is OK, indeed a good thing, to be proud of positive achievements

There should be some recognition that life in general is much easier for you if you are white and or male, but I don't think there is any wrong in a white person not hating themselves and not doubting the validity of their genuine accomplishments.

Like we both said - it is what someone DOES, how they ACT, and the attitude they carry that makes them dirt.

If you think you are a good person, for good reasons like being friendly and cooperative with others regardless of their similarities or lack thereof, that is OK.

If you think you are a superior person because of the melanin content of your skin and the continental origin of your ancestors, you suck.

[Louisiana1976]

7. Exactly.

[Ecumenist]

3. Amen, FrodosPet. I'm a black woman and I DO NOT blame people for what was foisted on

them by DNA and society. My husband is a Bohemian Czech, (WHITE) and although he says that he realises that the world if different for me than it is for people like him, he says that it's NOT the white privilege, it's when people consciously USE it to the detriment of people who aren't white. We have been discussing the latest travesty and he's FURIOUS because he grew up in rural Texas and saw alot of injustice based on ethnicity and skin color. He says that although he knew there was racism in this country but it wasn't until he became a member of a multiracial family that he saw FIRST HAND what the practical effects of racism are, both subtle and overt. It's not going to be until we respect one another for what we are, HUMAN BEINGS, that we will finally become a world of countries occupied by the HUMAN race.

[FrodosPet]

4. THIS!

Peace and respect in the world are created by peace and respect in our hearts.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Very nice to see you.

Last edited Thu Aug 21, 2014, 03:48 AM - Edit history (1)

While I certainly think white privilege is an issue, what I find to be a bigger issue is the subtle racism. In-your-face racism is usually condemned (thanks tblue!) outright, even if some "excuse" it away, but it is the subtle version which keeps getting a pass and because it does, those who aren't "quite there" see it as a green light to escalate, and thus another racist is empowered. Like you said about your husband's experience, many whites see racism, especially the overt kind, but until they become more aware, and the scales from the eyes, they start seeing the subtle version which is just as painful and just as nasty and, IMO, so much more common.

[Ecumenist]

25. Nice to see you too BTA...it's been a little while...

I completely agree about the subtle racism that, for people like me, is an EVERY SINGLE DAY thing. Because it's not something punctuated by cross burnings, lynching, horrific names, etc, ALOT of people refuse to believe that it's an issue but trust me, you'll never know what it feels like to go to a store to shop and realise you're being tailed as if you are going to grab an entire rack of clothes and bounce. It's especially annoying when it's a store that carries things that I could buy each and everyday, ie, a joint like walfart, dollar stores...I mean, REALLY? I've been followed in a FURNITURE STORE!! Did they really expect me to grab a couch, stuff it in my bra and walk out?
I haven't crossed walfart's door way in over a decade but I will never forget that feeling that some UNDERPAID woman was following me, someone who could easily buy the entire inventory in the women's and children's dept. I wish I could tell you how many times I've spoken on the phone with someone and they're SHOCKED to see what color my skin is. The worst part is when I talk to someone and they act like it's a miracle that...get this, "I SPEAK ENGLISH SO WELL"..WTF??!! I was BORN here and some of my family CAME from ENGLAND, SCOTLAND & EIRE, for crying out loud...People don't realise how many times black people have to go through this...
My mother very carefully chose my name because she did NOT want anyone to be able to figure out what my ethnicity was by reading my name and to be honest, that's a DAMN SHAME...but it's the reality of people with brown or black skin.

Perhaps, someday, we will wake up and realise we are not only THE SAME RACE but Cousins at the very least. Years ago, I was listening to a pilot for the Blue Eagles give a talk to school children. He said something that will ALWAYS stay with me. He was talking about racism and how quickly things would change if there were an invasion of people from another planet. He said, "We would no longer have a problem with skin color, creed or any other superficial thing. We would be happy to see another person with a set of ears, one nose and eyes on the top 3rd of the face. Racism is something that people entertain when they have too much time on their hands." I've often thought about that and wonder if he's right. I suspect he is.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. It has been a month of Sundays.

I am just sorry it is something like this that brought us back together.

I don't know what it is like to be followed in a store, but I have experienced it in my own way. When I was in HS, my best friend was black and we went into a clothing store. Now, even though we were in HS, he was 6'1" and big (he played football). He went his way, I went mine. I found something I liked, but it was in the wrong size, so I went to an employee. As we were talking, he kept looking away. I turned to see what he was watching...it was my friend. Oh, I should have mentioned, he didn't have anything with him, I had two shopping bags from other stores. I was furious! So, I walked away and started shoving shit into both my bags. By the time we left, as he was checking out, I was standing outside the store. He walked out with TWO employees in toe and it was then I said, "While you were all busy following my friend (walked back into the store), I took all of this shit!" Then I proceeded to dump two bags worth of merchandise on the counter. I said, "Have fun restocking you racist fucks!" and walked out. Of course, I felt bad because I embarrassed my friend as he pointed out, "this happens all the time." I was impulsive and angry, but should have asked him if he wanted me to say anything. White privilege, because really, what the hell were they going to do to me?

There is another story about my carrying my niece as a baby and someone bigot said it "was disgusting", "it" being a mixed relationship (she was light-skinned when born), which, given that I am gay, wasn't an issue! I very calmly explained to the woman, that she was my niece, not OUR daughter as I like to fuck dudes! And yes, I said "fuck dudes!" Needless to say, she beat a hasty path away from me.

There was another AA poster here who also relayed the "you don't sound black" insult to me when we were chatting. She said she got it all the time and it really pissed her off, which I completely understand. The one I hear often (and even had someone challenge me to say it wasn't racist) is "she is pretty for a black girl." Do what now?! That is just racist to the core, but some don't see it.

As a gay person, I get all kinds of subtle crap too and it is fucking frustrating. My favorite is "just so you know, I am straight, OK?" I usually respond with something pithy like "That's good to know, I charge double for pity fucks." The sad thing is those who aren't like us really don't fully understand until they become intertwined with us, and even then, it is still a challenge. Gay as I am, and I am real gay, I am still not black. I don't ever think about walking into a store and worry if I will be followed. When I stop a cop, I usually (the gay thing can get me in trouble) don't fear a negative reaction. I can walk into any store and not be asked "do you think you can afford that?!" As responsible and informed as I am, one thing is also still true, I am not black and I will never fully understand the experience.

If we all woke up purple tomorrow, there would be some major moves forward, but eventually, someone would dislike someone else for something. We may all be human, but it is that condition that sometimes seems to be the problem.

But, I am glad to see you back again!

[tblue37]

27. Your hyperactive auto correct changed your "condemned" to "condoned,"

thus making a sentence in your post say the opposite of what you mean.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. Aww geez! Thank you!

[tblue37]

33. I finally got so tired of discovering after the fact that autocorrect had

made my posts and emails into gibberish that I just turned the darned thing off.

[alp227]

5. "White guilt"? Err...that's a common right wing concept

are you really sure you want to be using right wing terminology on DU?

Why it's right wing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Guilt_%28book%29

[FrodosPet]

8. I guess I need a list of acceptable words and phrases

I don't pay much attention to what words and phrases are left wing vs right wing. I'm more into ideas than ideology.

[alp227]

10. Isn't "white guilt" basically a strawman because it implies that white Americans need to apologize

for the sins of their ancestors, in response to anti-discrimination efforts?

[FrodosPet]

12. I guess I have a bad definition of it in mind

I always thought of it as a type of self hatred - feeling existentially guilty - for being white.

Is there a better term to describe that concept?

[alp227]

14. Well, let's just say "white guilt" is the common term for that concept.

But does that concept really exist or is it just a strawman created by people like Shelby Steele and Walter Williams or the "anti-racist is a code word for anti-white" types?

[FrodosPet]

18. Some white people do legitimately hate themselves for being white

Their intent is honorable, but misdirected and ultimately destructive. They think that hating themselves, and others like themselves, is a battle against racism. Which it is not. If anything, it builds a self feeding cycle of resentment leading to more self hate leading to more resentment... and so on and so on. So this individual may not use slurs, and may say the right things, but they are passive aggressive and become patronizing.

At the same time, you do make a good point about how the term is used by the right wing to attack anti-racism efforts.

[betsuni]

20. I do hate myself, but it has nothing to do with being white

(To paraphrase Larry David in a Curb Your Enthusiasm scene.)

[nolabear]

6. But trying to understand it and even use it to help others is important.

Even in small ways.

[FrodosPet]

9. I agree

I was always taught extra privileges bring extra responsibility.

But I probably shouldn't use the "R" word because some mouth breathing Freeper uses it, so it is a right wing word now.

[nolabear]

11. We know what we mean. They're not the boss of us.

[U4ikLefty]

13. Oh hell yeah, another white privilege thread!!!

[FrodosPet]

16. When asshole cops and cop wannabes quit killing unarmed kids, we won't need them anymore

When blacks and latinos have the same rights and access to economic development as whites, we won't need them anymore.

When guilty whites are treated as harshly as guilty minorities, and when innocent people of color have the same respect and protection of the law as innocent whites, we won't need them anymore.

Until then, we need these threads until more people get it.

[U4ikLefty]

17. I love these threads. They are like bait for the ignorant "white privilege doesn't exist" types.

It amounts to much popcorn being eaten.

[Nye Bevan]

23. I challenge you to provide a link to any post ever on DU

where a DUer claimed that "white privilege does not exist".

Take your time......

[U4ikLefty]

24. You challenge me? LOL...how rich!!!

It took me a few seconds...enjoy the thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4832326

[JustAnotherGen]

32. The c/p from the post

Normally I'd agree with you, but.....I'm afraid it's not about "white privilege"....

Because it doesn't exist. Not in a literal sense, anyway.

Though it's definitely true that the woman on the right did get a harsher sentence than she had deserved and the woman on the left got it too easy. I'm just not convinced that race necessarily played any role in even the Taylor case, let alone the Clouser incident.

[littlemissmartypants]

19. Don't make me have to stop this car.

Power and Control.

That's at issue. We all want it.

Some of us are skilled in getting it in ways, and with methods, that are less than respectable but no less used.

Dignity and respect. We have to have Dignity and respect, for and with, to maintain a sufficient support system.

Otherwise we have breakdowns in a system and ultimate failures.

Love, Peace and Shelter.
~ Lmsp

Sharing this for comparison purposes.

[littlemissmartypants]

21. Thank you for your post, FrodosPet.

Kicking.
Love, Peace and the Righteous Fight!
~ Lmsp

[AgingAmerican]

22. K&R

nt

[The Traveler]

26. Is it really white privilege

I'm an old southern red neck white boy. I do not feel privileged. Maybe I am receiving privilege (which means "private law&quot , but it seems to me that is reserved for rich folk.

What I'm asking is, are we dealing with white privilege, or are we really confronting black oppression? I think that's really what we are talking about. I think when we talk about "white privilege" we are pretending that black Americans really are supposed to receive the same rights and Constitutional protections that my pale Irish arse receives. (And those protections seem more diluted every day, BTW.) It says so on paper but it has been obvious for a long time that is not really the case.

And that is wrong. I object. I object strongly. I regard my neighbors, their children, and my own step son and I fear for them. This system is not friendly to white people, not even white males. But it is inimical to people of color.

After the past few years, I cannot even pretend to believe otherwise. Post racial America? Yeah. Right.

The work of MLK has been partly undone. And it's up to us to renew and complete it. Just my take ... and I don't feel guilty. I feel really pissed off.

Trav

[McDiggy]

30. I find the entire concept of "white privilege" disturbing.

White people aren't "privileged." And before you get mad, let me explain. They are simply allowed to maintain liberties that they are legally guaranteed without molestation by authorities. By calling basic human rights "privilege," you are making them sound like something that is given or as something only special people have. It isn't. It's something everyone is supposed to have the right to. Its not white privilege, its discrimination against non-whites. If one were to say "whites aren't discriminated against nearly as much as certain minorities," I'd agree.

Is basically watering down what the minimum expected level of human rights should be by calling them "privileges." Its stooping down to the level of the knuckle draggers. Not that I blame black people for this, I see it as more of a manifestation of institutionalized Stockholm syndrome. If they treat you like shit long enough, you start to see those not treated like shit for something as arbitrary as melanin levels as special.

[get the red out]

31. I am white from a white area

I grew up in an all white area of Kentucky so I was way behind in diversity knowledge as a young adult. I was aware of racism in our society and found it nauseating, but for so many years it has been hard to see the more subtle forms, because if white privilege. I didn't have a knowledge of what to call that for many years; I knew I was blown away when a young woman I knew in college told me of being stopped and searched after shopping in a store because she was black. I didn't know what I didn't know.

I am grateful for the internet allowing me to see what subtle racism is, now I see it in so many places, especially in media. Once a person learns to see they can.

I can't erase white privilege but at least I can see more and more of the results. Nothing I can do about being white, born that way, so when I see threads about it I think, yep, it is real, not much to argue about. Now it is in our faceses and not even subtle as the Tea Party shows the fear of demographic change.

[Iggo]

34. Of course it doesn't. Denying it exists is what makes you a bad person.

(Note to jury: I have been assured that no one on The Democratic Underground denies that white privilege exists.)