Ferguson's burning on live TV

[99th_Monkey]

Holy Crap. All Hell's breaking loose in Ferguson on live TV.

This is totally nuts.

"There's no curfew but you must keep moving' (where do I find that in the First Amendment?)

"National Guard's taking over now" ... except not really, they're just pilling onto the already over-militarized situation.

The authority's seeming intent is to keep ratcheting up the intensity and abuse of people constitutional rights, and to deliberately provoke peaceful protesters to become violent.

ON EDIT: See CNN and/or MSNBC

[HipChick]

1. It's not burning yet...

[99th_Monkey]

7. The streets are on fire with police flash-bomb grenades & tear gas

on live CNN and MSNBC

don't you have a TV?

[HipChick]

9. Alarmist much?

I lived in a war zone...this is not it..yet

[99th_Monkey]

13. Tell that to the protesters and journalists being beaten and arrested

and when you do, I suggest you drop the patronizing sanctimonious tone.

[HipChick]

21. Black people have lived with being beaten and arrested most of their lives

Where were was your caring then?

[99th_Monkey]

23. I've been in the streets for black people, Hispanics and homeless people for 47 years

Thats where i've been. And I'm damn proud of it.

And you?

[sabrina 1]

39. Perhaps if you were a resident of Ferguson, or a journalist who has covered war zones as is the case

with one of the journalists on CNN tonight, you might feel differently. Several journalists now have stated that not 'since I covered the war in Iraq/Afghanistan etc, have I seen anything like this'.

I saw military equipment tonight being aimed at peaceful protesters. Sniper rifles aimed at the people. What is the purpose of this UNLESS it IS a warzone?

I certainly agree that Ferguson is not a warzone. It seems to be populated by some pretty decent citizens.

Maybe you should deliver your message that 'this is not a war zone' to those who sent in this literal army to an American town?? THEY seem to think it is a war zone.

[dhill926]

2. Scary shit....

[Alameda]

3. where, it isn't on my TV

[Alameda]

8. found it here

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/michael-brown-protest-crowd-surges-toward-police-ferguson-n183611

[RKP5637]

4. WTF are the cops trying to accomplish? All i've seen them do is increase the tension. n/t

[Rex]

6. They are trying to incite rioting.

They know dam well what they are doing!

[99th_Monkey]

18. That's pretty much what I see too. It could not be more obvious

I actually heard one female CNN journalist caught up in the excitement slip and refer to "the Michael Smith murder ... ehhh I mean killing ... by a police officer"

I totally want that clip to go viral.

[2naSalit]

24. I think

they also have some help from the same wannabe RWers who want to start a civil war. They start stirring the sh*t and the gunners react only at the legitimate protesters while the sh*t stirrers get away.

[Rex]

57. Yeah it seems the outside agitators are also trying to start a riot.

The actual citizens are caught in the crossfire.

[HipChick]

12. Police are inciting things..and the world is just sitting back

[RKP5637]

48. That's the way I see it ... the police are instigating the people. So many

views/streams where the people are peaceful and all of a sudden the cops move in on them and provoke them. The police are way too forceful, even against the media, and the cops are rude and arrogant. Like WTF, so many see what is going on ... cops with toys descending on the people. Also, just from the outside, it looks like little is being done to investigate more quickly what went on with Michael Brown. From here, it looks like cops protecting cops. Also, just looking, it seems everyone attacking the people are white, I see very few people of color in the ranks of the cops.

[flamingdem]

5. On another thread Tim Pool said that protesters were firing rubber bullets

Needs confirmation!

But there are trouble makers in the mix.

[99th_Monkey]

11. Then go after those INDIVIDUALS

Don't abuse whole communities of peaceful people protesting, who are grieving and longing for simple justice.

[rollin74]

14. not rubber bullets. REAL bullets

[99th_Monkey]

31. Why are you posting this meme?

Do you have a shred of evidence, or a link. ?

[Ms. Toad]

15. He said he was hit in the leg with a rubber bullet.

I didn't hear him identify the source of the rubber bullets (my impression was it was from the police - but I haven't replayed to check).

[HooptieWagon]

16. protestors? rubber bullets?

Sounds like agent provocateurs to me. Where would protestors get rubber bullets?

[rollin74]

26. people were firing real bullets tonight

[WinkyDink]

53. Says WHO, besides YOU?

[sabrina 1]

10. It's shameful what is going on there. SHAMEFUL. Shame on America! Shame on every elected official

who is not and doesn't EXPRESS outrage over the war zone created by the AUTHORITIES, the GOV, the Police, it is a DISGRACE.

These people were doing NOTHING WRONG.

I believe the trouble makers are AGENTS PROVOCATEURS. In fact I have no doubt about it.

This country is a disgrace.

[VanGoghRocks]

41. Which side are you on, now, which side are

you on?

They say in Ferguson Town
There are no neutrals then
You'll either be a rebel son
Or a thug for 'Culloch's men.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

RIP Pete Seeger.

[sabrina 1]

43. I know which side I'm on. I want to know which side our elected officials are on.

Great song btw.

[VanGoghRocks]

45. As you can probly tell, I reworded Seeger's lyrics just a bit to

bring them up to date!

[sabrina 1]

47. I did, some things never seem to change. I'm Seeger would have done that himself, had he still been

with us.

[kath]

17. What the hell is this BS that people must keep moving? How is that "freedom of assembly"??

[99th_Monkey]

20. Gee, I never learned that in civics class either.. odd that. ~nt

[cui bono]

27. It's part of the state's new exercise program.

It's for their own good.

[kath]

32. Oh, yeah, part of the whole anti-obesity thing. NOW I get it!

[VanGoghRocks]

40. Gives new meaning to

in loco parentis

Sincere hat tip for a brilliant bon mot! I'm in awe.

[RKP5637]

49. Yeah, that, is fucked up. Cops arresting/instigating people because they stand still

a few minutes. What bullshit. It looks like a WWII invasion force.

[treestar]

55. Yes, I wonder on what legal authority they are enforcing that

Is there some sort of ordinance of the city on time place or manner restrictions? Reasonable ones are allowed under the constitution. If someone gets arrested for not moving, that could become a First Amendment question.

[Grammy23]

22. I can't help but believe that tonight's behavior is a deliberate

Provocation of the crowd by the police. Why on earth announce that the curfew is off and then start hassling people to get off the streets? Why start yelling, cursing and exploding flash bombs at the crowd when they are trying to "keep moving", and not stop or congregate, etc?

I swear it looks like there is an attempt by the law enforcement to whip the crowd into full scale riot behavior. I am hearing on the live TV feed that they are keeping the media out.

I cannot believe what I am seeing right in front of my eyes. It is sickening, to say the very least. I was a kid living in Jackson, MS during the Civil Rights era and lots of what I am seeing in Ferguson looks very familiar. This is a sad day in our country. A very sad day.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. I'm pretty sure after following the live feed for the past hour that you're right, Grammy23...

This is no tin foil hat. This is repeated behavior. You could hear, see and practically taste it. The officers were announcing in a methodic way the things to make crowd behavior fall into a chaos chase. First thing you know, rubber bullets from the police, then police in riot gear rushing journalists on live feed to flee, due, which they then, "confirm" were from 'the bad guys'.

It's outright disgusting. CNN would only make this worse, I imagine. Watching the live feed is probably the better method to know what's going on, and the police have done their work tonight in making the case of where the "live fire" was coming from… my foot.

[99th_Monkey]

28. Love those live feeds

as an "occupy" veteran.

[MrMickeysMom]

30. Geez… I would love to tech up and do one...

Not for the nobility of the situation, but to expose the damned thing.

[RKP5637]

50. That's the way I see it too. I had several feeds I was following. It mostly seemed the

same pattern ... cops egging the people on trying to incite violence. There is something way more going on than trying to blame it all on the people. To me, there are many places in the US where the people are on the edge.

I also think there are provocateurs in the crowd. What gets me is if there are a few disrupting things ... the cops go after everyone.

I also wonder how many outside organizations are there with provocateurs working to increase the violence. What I see is ... the way the cops are handling it, they are inciting more violence by going after everyone. I also don't trust the cops to not have some provocateurs in the crowd.

I was watching the comments on some of the feeds. The racism was incredible.

[regnaD kciN]

29. So, who are the police doing the provocation...?

Seriously, I thought the initial problem was with the St. Louis County Police. When they were replaced by the Highway Patrol, with the lauded Cpt. Johnson, it was seen as a calming step -- but then unrest started again, and became even worse. Now, a Democratic governor has sent in the National Guard to replace the Highway Patrol that replaced the County cops, and things keep getting worse??? What happened?

[kath]

33. The Ferguson PD, County cops and Highway Patrol have NOT been replaced. Still there, doing the same

Old shit and escalating matters even further.

[99th_Monkey]

36. I think it's called "Bait and Switch", good cop/bad cop, BUT

the unmistakable trajectory of these tactics is to provoke the peaceful crowd to become violent.

It could not be more obvious. Anyone who sees otherwise either needs a lot of good therapy,
or a brand new pair of glasses.

[VanGoghRocks]

42. They've done all this shit BUT THEY STILL HAVEN'T ARRESTED

DARREN WILSON FOR MURDER!

Support the Ferguson Resistance! No stand-down until Wilson is arrested!

[Horse with no Name]

37. The "State" is still Missouri

and I don't think that the cops in Ferguson are much different than the state police from anywhere else in that particular state. New boss same as the old boss...hell at this point it wouldn't even shock me if Wilson was on the streets behind the riot gear.

Capt. Johnson has me stumped...not sure what his role is but I don't think it is what they are selling--and that may or may not be by design and may or may not be with his knowledge.

[politicat]

38. As far as I can tell, the Ferguson PD was relieved of command, not of duty. Same with SLCtyPD.

In other words, still on the job, just reporting to the Highway Patrol. An excellent situation. /Mr. Burns, plotting nefariousness. If your def of excellent includes a fractured chain of command and potentially rogues, then plan accomplished,

The provocateurs, whoever they are, were near/around the QT up from the standoff. That area was dark. The press was on the left side of the road when high powered shots were fired. The press, mostly not war correspondents, have little experience with being under fire, but described the sound as sthwip, with frequent repeats. Tellingly, they didn't describe the sound of the shots at all. (And if the shots were from far enough, they wouldn't hear more than a pop or crunch.)

(Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since this sort of situation) IIRC, a handgun makes a popping sound on firing and the bullets sound more zip (smaller, not displacing as much air.) a long gun has more sheer noise than a handgun, and the larger, faster bullets rip the air more loudly and longer. Sthwip. SWAT told the press to bug out. When the VICE crew came back around, they found a number of unfired(live) smoke, gas, rubber and beanbag rounds on the ground, as if the guns had been hastily unloaded, and presumably reloaded. (Odd, that.)

Speculation: yes, some damn fools decided to use live, long gun rounds tonight. Generally, though, handguns are city guns; longs are not. Not that someone couldn't have brought Them in, though. My guess... Find the long guns, you'll find the provocateurs. My bet is 55% authoritarian fellow travelers who could be relied upon to be scary without deadly (militia), and 45% says off duty cops from the area. The police are searching, but they won't find any clues, is my bet.

[grasswire]

46. the only role of the Guard is to protect the command center.

They are not doing crowd control or anything else.

[MrMickeysMom]

51. I guess that was a rhetorical question...

Personally, I see the governor is responsible for the command control. However, the FEMA program is ubiquitous down to the local level. You have firefighters, police (temporarily replaced by less regional, but trained under FEMA to communicate the same way under the command structure.

So, the fire that burned down that gas station/convenience store could have been thwarted, but they were not responding and let it burn. That sounds less like FEMA based command structure and more like Homeland Security clandestine fuck up. It's a perfect way to ensure the perception of the community the police originally referred to as be rioted by these "animals".

Fuck that… I know the Gawd-damned difference in what's going on here. It's disgusting and it has to be called out appropriately.

Homeland Fucking Security, my ass… Thank you, George Bush, and thank you, Barack Obama for indulging the foreplay of Bush Cheney's fucking "homeland security".

[sabrina 1]

44. I agree, this is provocation.

[BainsBane]

34. Is there somwhere online where I can watch

without a cable subscription? I can't access CNN because I don't have an account with a cable company.

[Ms. Toad]

56. youtube.com/vicenews

They do a live stream every evening - so you can see it as it is happening (and they have older videos posted there as well).

[rock]

52. "...you must keep moving..."

But what if I'm the court jester?

[WinkyDink]

54. I have been where cops stopped Democrats from walking on streets Republicans could walk on. TRUE.

This was at a Kutztown U. (PA) visit by Dubya for re-(s)election. A public tax-payer-supported university. Public streets.

ONLY people getting into the line for entry to the rally were allowed onto the adjacent street OR the KU grass. I, for one, was threatened with arrest for "Disturbing the peace" when I pointed out the illegality of the above. I laughed in the cop's face, and asked him who did he think would press charges? He then said he was just trying to get through the day. TFBad!

And this just was your basic uniformed policeman, not a SWAT nutcase.