Meanwhile, Ukraine is still f**ked royally. Ukraine, rebels accuse each other of attacking convoy

[LuckyTheDog]

Ukraine accused pro-Russian rebels on Monday of hitting a refugee convoy of buses with rocket fire near the eastern city of Luhansk, killing people trapped in the burning vehicles, but the separatists denied responsibility.

Ukrainian military spokesmen said the bus convoy had been in an area of fierce fighting between government forces and the separatists. It had come under fire from rebel Grad and mortar launchers, they said, causing an unknown number of casualties.

"A powerful artillery strike hit a refugee convoy near the area of Khryashchuvatye and Novosvitlivka. The force of the blow on the convoy was so strong that people were burned alive in the vehicles — they weren't able to get themselves out," military spokesman Anatoly Proshin told Ukrainian news channel 112.ua.

MORE HERE: http://wonkynewsnerd.com/ukraine-rebels-accuse-attacking-refugee-convoy/

[Fred Sanders]

1. Civilians are getting killed in the hundreds, injured in the thousands and refugees in the tens of

thousands....the media silence is deafening as the Kiev army of militia and misfits accelerates its murderous and ruthless campaign on behalf of their illegitimate oligarch faux President.

Do the folks of Eastern Ukraine also have the right to defend themselves or are they officially the bad guys, so, no?

The mass media will tell us what to think.......

[Purveyor]

2. I believe if the asshole Putin hadn't institued the anti-gay bullshit, this forum

would be taking a whole different approach to this situation especially considering the neo-nazi make-up of the current Ukrainian gov't.

Pooty-Poot fucked up 'big-time' with that as earlier discussions of Russia/Vlad around these parts were most positive to neutral before that.

Some were even pleased, myself included, that a 'check and balance' to the wests neocon crusades might be put in check.

He f'd-up bigtime, imo.

[Fred Sanders]

4. I agree with the big paint brush Putin put on himself has colored many perceptions of other matters.

[Duckhunter935]

5. How many neo-nazi people

make up the new government?

[Fred Sanders]

8. I like cinnamon in my pie, apple is the best.

[Duckhunter935]

18. nice non-answer

Have a great night

[Purveyor]

9. One is too many? Do you not agree? I'm not going to waste my time

with documentation of such.

Google is replete with the answer you seek.

[Duckhunter935]

19. so you do not know

but you seem to say it has many more than just one

considering the neo-nazi make-up of the current Ukrainian gov't.

Just spouting Putin's propaganda with no facts to back it up.

[Purveyor]

21. Not playing your game. Google is everyones friend in regard to this issue.

Most are not so naive as you may believe.

Interesting the crowd 'you are' supporting, indeed.

[Duckhunter935]

23. what, the crowd

that got less then 2% of the vote?

OK, but you would be wrong. I support the one that was democratically elected even when the nice boys in the east threatened poll workers in the east with death and destroyed ballot boxes and polling stations. The new President still won, even in the east.

[pampango]

14. On which side?

Fascist movements shared certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, and it asserts that stronger nations have the right to expand their territory by displacing weaker nations.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Not sure which side is closer to the definition of fascism.

[Cha]

10. Putin's a fucking "neo nazi" asshole.

[Purveyor]

11. Well then it would seem he and the 'coup installed' Ukrainian gov't ought to

get along.

So let us play 'Who The Real Neo-Nazi', eh?

[Duckhunter935]

20. you do mean the

democratically elected one don't you?

not like those self appointed nice boys in the east.

[Purveyor]

22. Certainly you are not serious that the current thugs were not installed

after the coup d'é·tat:?

Find someone else to play with...I haven't the time for neo-con/nazi nonsense.

[Fred Sanders]

24. The ousting of the nationally elected government is down the memory hole for some, how it

happened is revised to suit the new oligarchs funding the Kiev regime and the Western media who will publish anything without question from any well paying oligarch.

[Duckhunter935]

25. your not serious that was a coup?

OMG

He was fired by the democratically elected Rada after he took a couple of days to pack his loot and flee. New elections were called and held with international observers. Guess what, it was fair and free with the exception of the threats in the east but many there still were able to vote.

That is quite unlike those self appointed Russians that took over by force in the east.

[Fred Sanders]

27. The memory hole is deep..the violent street protests organized by the neo-fascists is in that well.

[Igel]

28. There was an election for president.

And the Supreme Soviet is pretty much the one that was around in December '13. No new appointees to that.

Cabinet members are new. But some were in the Rada and they were approved--rather like the US cabinet is--by their Rada.

As for neo-Nazi nonsense, here's a group that the Russian government and the LPR/DPR are proud to have on their side, fighting for them in the hundreds.

http://informator.lg.ua/?p=23575

I especially like the vampire-Communist with the slogan "Communists are among us", equating Communism with being Jewish with being a vampire. (If you're curious about the funny + with little half-circles on the tank in one of the earlier photographs, scroll down--it's a standard stylized representation of an Orthodox cross.) And lest you think it's an accident, the newly retired "commendant" fought with this "movement" in the '90s. To kill Croatians and Muslims in Yugoslavia to help create an Orthodox Greater Serbia.

These are your "good guys". "Kosovo is Serbia." Like that didn't end badly. But then again, part of the reason they're fighting the "Eurofascists" in Ukraine (that would be people like Hollande and Merkel) is because of the humiliation the Serbs endured at their hands in the '90s. (Wait: That means Clinton was a fascist! Well, that's okay. He must have been a Demofascist.)


Then again, the Russian Duma has a variety of groups in it that are less than savory. And the government(s) in the East really do believe in Russian and Orthodox supremacy. You don't want to be Protestant or Catholic there. Or Uniate or even Ukrainian Orthodox. Or black. Not many Ukrainian-speakers left; they were driven out early on, beaten for not speaking the proper language in private use. "Fascist" ... a whole new definition.

Then there are Putin's buddies the Night Wolves.

Yeah. Must be hard. I'm in it for the anti-imperialism. And because I really don't like some of the Stalinists that are in bed in E. Ukraine with the fascists. (Yup: National bol'sheviks. Limonov's little movement, but the Communists are pretty much the same.)

[Duckhunter935]

3. only one slight flaw in your

totally flawed argument.

The east was under no threat and was all quiet until the Pro-Russian and then Russians took up arms and started the violence and kidnapping and killing people. And now the evidence is quite strong the Russians are supplying quite a lot of the weaponry.

[Fred Sanders]

7. You forget the ethnically and linguistically separate East voted overwhelmingly for the ousted

former government, that Kiev is ruled by oligarchs and neo-fascists.

Kiev wants the lands of the East. They could not get the consent of the folks of the East for their Western Ukraine coup, so now they will kill for it.

Crimea escaped the same fate by moving quickly to elections.

[Duckhunter935]

26. and you forget

the former Presidents own party voted to remove him after he fled with his stolen assets.

[polly7]

16. Pilger gets it right ...

A third of the population of Ukraine are Russian-speaking and bilingual. They have long sought a democratic federation that reflects Ukraine’s ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are neither “separatists” nor “rebels” but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland. Separatism is a reaction to the Kiev junta’s attacks on them, causing as many as 110,000 (UN estimate) to flee across the border into Russia. Typically, they are traumatised women and children.

(July 12, 2014)

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-return-of-george-orwell-and-big-brothers-war-on-palestine-ukraine-and-truth-2/

'Pro-Russians' sounds so much more evil, though.

[malaise]

6. We know who killed those refugees

The neo-fascists are out of control.

[Cha]

12. Of course they "denied responsibility".. putin and his murderous thugs do nothing wrong.. fucking

angels they are.

[Purveyor]

13. Odd how anyone from the 'west' calling anyone 'murderous thugs' after our

illegal invasion of Iraq and the ten's of thousand civilian causalities.

[Igel]

29. Then there was Lavrov's great worry.

And Strelkov's.

That Donetsk or Luhans'k would become another Grozyi.

You know, with a couple 100k dead, mostly civilians, because of Russian artillery and air attacks on civilians. Merited because they were separatist "terrorists." Who dared to put military hardware among civilians.

Strelkov approved of the war crimes in Grozyi. In writing. And then put military hardware among civilians, decrying any civilian casualties. Of course, that boils down to racism: As he said, killing all those Chechens was worth it if it saved one Russian soldier's life.

(Now the big Russian fear is a puny "federalization" movement for Siberia and Kaliningrad. Federalization is, of course, horrible and threatens the territorial integrity of Russia, Putin and his government says. But it's exactly what he wanted for Ukraine. One rule for Russia, another for other countries. What's that word? Hypocratic? Hepatic?)

[TheKentuckian]

15. Nothing good was ever going to happen and our involvement made it worse, as usual.

I'm sure we'll get plenty of the meltdown, probably going nowhere.

[Purveyor]

17. Our track record is indeed pretty consistent as of late. eom