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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNate Silver: Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Have A Problem On Her Left
Hillary Clintons recent hawkish comments about foreign policy, in which she expressed some disagreements with President Obama, have inspired reporting and speculation that liberal Democrats will grow disillusioned with her ahead of a possible presidential bid in 2016. There is a pattern that has emerged in almost every recent interview Clinton has given: liberals walk away unnerved, Ezra Klein wrote at Vox.
The Vox headline proclaimed that Clinton is not inevitable that is, not the inevitable Democratic nominee. Thats right, narrowly speaking. Few things are inevitable, and Clintons nomination is no exception. Although shes performing most or all of the activities that wed associate with a future presidential candidate, shes not yet officially declared for the race and could still decide against doing so. She could have health problems, or a heretofore unknown scandal could emerge, or she could decide that the 2016 climate has become grim enough for Democrats that the nomination isnt worth seeking.
But the odds that a challenger will emerge from the left flank of the Democratic Party and overtake Clinton remain low.
--- snip: recent polling showing Clinton strong numbers among liberals ---
... if theres been a meaningful change in how rank-and-file liberal Democrats perceive Clinton, youd have to squint to see it. Perhaps more important, its extremely rare to see a non-incumbent candidate poll so strongly so early. In the earliest stages of the 2008 Democratic nomination race, Clinton was polling between 25 percent and 40 percent of the vote not between 60 percent and 70 percent, as she is now. Clinton could lose quite a bit of Democratic support and still be in a strong position.
But suppose you see those polls as a lagging indicator. Another early measure of a candidates strength that can have predictive power is the amount of support she receives from elites in her party, as measured by endorsements from elected officials. Clinton, despite not having declared her candidacy, has already picked up 60 endorsements from Democrats in Congress. As far as I can tell, there isnt any precedent for something like this. A database of primary endorsements we compiled in 2012 found only a handful of endorsements of a presidential candidate so early in the race.
Moreover, these endorsements are coming from across the Democratic Partys ideological spectrum, including some of the most liberal Democrats.... Regardless of ideology, every Democratic woman in the Senate has endorsed Clinton ranging from very liberal Democrats like Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren to relatively conservative ones like Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu. (If she appeals in the same way to women in the electorate, who made up a majority of Democratic primary voters in 2008, shell be well positioned in 2016.)
But arent Democrats growing more liberal? Yes, theres some evidence they are... Democrats could get quite a bit more liberal without being at risk of leaving Clinton behind. Her base is broad and includes not only coastal liberals but also groups such as baby-boomer women and working-class Democrats whose views tend toward the center-left... But for Clinton to lose the Democratic nomination for ideological reasons would require a pronounced leftward shift in the party something close to an ideological realignment and not incremental change over the next two years.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-doesnt-have-a-problem-on-her-left/
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Actually, hasn't that already happened? I think it was his prediction the Senate would go Repuke.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Must be because it's early!
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Hiring a climate denier as environmental writer wasn't a very good move.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)his statistical analysis seems dead on, but when the modeling looked bad, people here questioned it.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)But outside of that, he's not very good. The thing is, with elections it's him versus idiots like Joe Scarborough. When it comes to things like economics of climate, there are actual experts who have all the statistical tools and also expertise on the topic, and he tends to think he can ignore all that and do some simple excel spreadsheet.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The Doom and Gloom club just love to quote him when he says that the loss of the Senate to the GOP is entirely possible, but when he says things like this, well, he gets stuffed under that bus in a big way!!!
closeupready
(29,503 posts)If she fails, then she won't be the nominee, period.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)Remember when she was Inevitial In 2008 despite having voted for iraq war.Obama and Primarys proved that was wrong.
Read game change and you will discover a lot of dems despite what they said publicy didn't want her.
The aftermath of midterm and her postions will detmine who runs In 20016.Remember time when Obama said he would serve out his senate term.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They've been going full tilt since at least 2012.
And, the blessed low info voter is not confined to the right or the alleged middle.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Though she had plenty of money last time, too. She just turns people off - runs a poor campaign, I even have doubts that she really wants it now.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Before the 2012 election, when all this started (publicly), Hillary was still a popular Secretary of State.
(When I started seeing all those "Tell Hillary you want her to run" ads online, Benghazi had not yet happened.)
The propaganda was on Obama's side. Remember, Tweety's leg tingling, to name just one? And the PUMAs complaining about all the sexism Hillary was facing from the media? There was even a now famous SNL bit about the media treatment of Hillary at that time.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sarah-palin-and-hillary-clinton-address-the-nation/n12287
Remember, too, last time, Hillary had early money because she also had early polls numbers, big time, not to mention the Clinton machine.
However, recall as well that, as Obama surged, her money dried up. By the end, vendors to her campaign were making news, complaining they were not getting paid. And, after the Obama Hillary Primary Summit Meeting, Obama urged his donors to donate to help her campaign get out of debt.
merrily
(45,251 posts)RobinA
(9,893 posts)will go to the polls and not vote for Pres. if there is no left of center (and I mean real center, not center of the Right, which is where we are now) candidate. And don't talk to me about the Supreme Court. I've been voting for the Supreme Court since forever and all its done is postpone the inevitable. We need to hit bottom so we can start climbing out. The sooner the better. I will vote for Congress, just not the Pres.
So yeah, the left does have somewhere else to go, and I'm going there.
merrily
(45,251 posts)If you write in a liberal, you will at least make your wishes clear.
dawg
(10,624 posts)Here, I'm a fringe leftist, and all the elite intelligentsia think it's laughable to believe that one of the major political parties might ever actually nominate a candidate that would closely mirror my views.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The far left are those advocating over throw of the existing system by violence, followed by government acquisition and operation of the means of production. Those who think money paid into Social Security should be invested for the benefit of OASDI recipients, as their allegedly representative government promised them, and not spent on wars or Homeland Insecurity or making the rich richer are only mildly moderate.
Pretending the right is the center and the Tea Party is the right is bullshit. Effective and persistent bullshit, but still only bullshit. You don't want to internalize it.
dawg
(10,624 posts)and they allow that to inform their votes. That isn't happening.
President Obama ran as a liberal, but he has felt the need to constantly reach out and validate conservative opinions on economic matters ever since taking office. Hillary is preparing to run to the right of Obama, at least on foreign policy matters.
None of the policies I support are extreme, but many are considered outside the bounds of discussion by Washington insiders of both parties.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I can't even see many Republican voters who are not in the 10% disagreeing with it.
You can certainly be centrist in political philosophy, whether or not you are in the median "population wise."
We are not doing ourselves any favors buying into their definitions of "extreme."
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)"...or she could decide that the 2016 climate has become grim enough for Democrats that the nomination isnt worth seeking."
That's a scary prospect but it would take a lot for the Republicans to overcome the demographic headwinds that blow against them.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)There are many issues a candidate will be judged. We do not live in a world of only what happens in the US but the world has an influence on our lives as well. It should not be a campaign of a single issue, we see what has happened in the GOP when people votes on a single issue, we are better than this in the GOP. One vote or stand on an issue should not determine, but evaluate who would be the best in the office of President.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The president will need to face many issues, not just the ones they are familiar.
merrily
(45,251 posts)As they sang in Cabaret, "Money makes the world go around."
Not sure why that required a question.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)bigtree
(85,998 posts). . . thanks for you and Silver reassuring us all here.
Full steam ahead with the militarization rhetoric that even causes some hawks to blush.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)I'll support the party nominee, and if I get a chance I will vote for Bernie in the primaries. I know he will not win, and probably will not even run tho he says he will. I just want to have my vote be a flag to someone that I am not an automatic vote for a hawk. I got really upset with her statements re Israel/Gaza. And I will probably get over it! Not yet.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)I know he is independent. Not sure about our primary ballots but I think everyone is listed -- I am in California.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Democrat. Perhaps he could run in the Independent Party Primary.
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Whoever is nominated will be the best person for the job.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)21. The left will have their say during the primaries.
Whoever is nominated will be the best person for the job.
Funny that you state it the way you did. It appears you are not a part of the "left." By default that makes you part of the right, which is against the TOS of this board.
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)No matter how you may register.
You have not been posting in a vacuum here.
It's OK to be a conservative registered as a Democrat, we were overrun with them thanks to love of uncle Ronnie Raygun a few years back and many of them now run as Democrats for you to vote for.
You do not have to pretend to hide your hatred of the left just because you are a rightie you know, there are many other Democrats on the right along with you, including Hillary Clinton.
Embrace who you are.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)As much as I may view them as infiltrators to a party I joined when it really was a leftist party many decades ago, if they register as Democrats, they are allowed here, just as rightist Democrats like Clinton are still considered Democrats when running.
We may not like the Republification of the party these past 30 years or so, but it is a fact and the TOS does not address that at all, a (D) and proper manners are all that is required here, no matter how much one may mirror Heritage Foundation and neocon talking points.
You will have to learn to accept that and simply argue the left (nearly always correct) positions you hold dear when confronted by the neo-Democratic rightists and not let them get to you.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I did not claim poster was a Republican. Just right-wing.
Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
The bolded area is the tough zone. The last several years have seen such a rightward shift, that I do not believe this is applied on DU any longer.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)All that is needed is to proclaim one's Democratic registration to avoid it being applied sadly.
It is a sign of the times, it is a sign of the sharp rightward shift of the party, all we can do is try to adapt and argue leftist policies that historically have been the only policies that have ever appeared to work for more than just the extremely wealthy.
frylock
(34,825 posts)at no time have I ever had any say during the primaries. ever.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)the general election.
Probably more DUers will want Hillary to lose than Obama in 2008/2012.
...will be interesting times to say the least....
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Gonna teach her a lesson by letting the GOP destroy the country.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)leftstreet
(36,109 posts)Lawrence ODonnell: You get nothing unless you demonstrate that youre willing to vote against (the Democrats). When I worked for them, I never had to listen to anyone on the left because they had nowhere to go.
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/movie_review/an-unreasonable-man.htm
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #25)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Now, I'm reconsidering even that. Even my membership here on DU.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)been a very rightward shift on DU in the last several years.
When I came here in '04 I was very anit-Iraq War, very anti-Patriot Act, very anti-*. Also floated between MIHOP and LIHOP in regards to 9/11. I had previously read some Karl Marx and agreed with much of what he said. I saw the failure of the current economic system from the view of the crash of '99.
Still, on DU, many old-timers thought I was right wing. DU was my first real political message board adventure and I did not know the language of the left vs that of the right well yet. It took time to figure it all out. I think my beliefs were still left leaning back then, but I may not have expressed them well. Language matters.
Now though, it feels like I am more "fringe left" here vs mainstream DU thought as I think I was back in the mid 2000's.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)DU was formed in the days after the 2000 GOP coup d-etat as an anti-establishment forum for American dissidents, attracting not just those who disagreed with the Bush v. Gore decision, but every other group and voice which had an anti-establishment axe to grind. It was great! LOL
When Obama won the presidency, however, this changed as we know.
Part of that change may be a function of the fact that DU comprises a group of people who informally pledge fealty to a party whose leader is now the most powerful person in the world. In light of that, people here would be generally expected to 'work within the system'. Thus, the pro-establishment (and even authoritarian) vibe.
So Hillary's support here will only get stronger, over time. That doesn't mean that you and/or I need to do so, but just be aware that if she is selected as the nominee, the administrators and others here more generally will demand that you either support her openly, or if you can't do that, then you must remain silent until after the general election is over.
Peace to you.
vi5
(13,305 posts)Is the final nail in the coffin of progressive policies within the Democratic party. No longer does a candidate have to even pretend to tack left. No longer do they even need to pay lip service to the liberal wing of the party.
It was one thing swallowing the pill of knowing that candidates had to pretend to be liberal as the Democratic candidate but once in office could fall prey to the money men and beltway insiders.
Hillary is basically admitting that we're done. Candidates don't even need to fake it any more.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)It's the prospect that her time has come and gone already and that by 2016 she will have bored all but the diehards to tears.
No matter what the polling says, she needs to appreciate the need to generate some real enthusiasm for her somewhere beyond her natural base of older Democrats. That will come from taking some genuine cuts at someone other than Democrats and getting out of the dreadful existential bubble that encloses her and Bill.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There are some folks on DU who seem to believe that if many on DU don't support her that this necessarily is the popular opinion.
It isn't. There is another term for what leads to that kind of belief. Being in a bubble, DU being the bubble in this case.
This is going to go like the rants for Obama to be "primaried from the left in 2012" went.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)and she is so tremendously popular then she probably doesn't need us so why the constant griping about how we're going to cost Democrats?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)All these election discussions are are hypothetical, and as such don't mean a whole lot at this point. Elections tend to change things. Believing, however, that "sitting out" an election, as some have argued, is some sort of strategy is absurd.
I expect people will support a wide range of candidates from the CP, to Bernie Sanders, whomever the Democratic nominee is, to Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.
Class solidarity, one would hope, would matter, and I expect it will overall among the left. The poor and the rest of the subaltern will vote how they tend to do and the upper-middle class as usual will focus on their own interests and contests between political elites.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Bookmarked.....
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)No one on the horizon has the backing or stature to take her on. Of course in politics things can change in a hurry, but a strong, more leftist contender emerging seems like a longshot at this point.
Clinton is a lousy campaigner, or at least she was in 2008. She has poor advisers and possesses a hawkish streak that most liberals won't like. She is a DLC supporter and advocate. Those are strikes against her to most of the base. She will not inspire the Democratic base, certainly not those to the left of her, which could cause problems in the general election.
But without a viable alternative, Silver is correct.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)In fact, so far, she's not even running...
Wait til we see a few candidates actually enter the race before we start to see if anyone peels off.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)It's also true that such odds do not make Clinton more palatable. So yeah we might be stuck with her, but if you think that's going to quash criticism of her you're going to be terribly frustrated.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and see if we can lobby her to move just a little bit in our direction. We are mot a significant threat to her inevitability.
If she is successfully primaried, it will be because the rest of you agreed on a better candidate.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)is a mile wide and an inch deep - there certainly is room for that to develop with a progressive alternative to Hillary igniting a leftwing version of a "vote for a voice instead of an echo" theme. I think that is very possible.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)having a challenge from the left, then we might only see Biden in the primary, which means - to me at least- that there will not be a real primary. And if the left stays away from choosing a president, we will see how Hillary can manage it. She certainly does not have the appeal her husband had, and he got less than 50% of the vote. Still, I have a little hope for a challenging primary.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)I still don't like her as a presidential candidate and will not vote for her in the primary.
tridim
(45,358 posts)MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)Look what happened there.
Until we have other viable candidates announce, and not only announce, but get their campaigns well underway, she will remain the "inevitable nominee" in most peoples' mind.
Even when Obama first announced, I still didn't think he was a very viable candidate. I thought it was too early in his career, and was not planning on voting for him until everyone else was knocked out of the primary. We Californians never have much of a choice. I do admit, after the fact, I got pretty excited about him, but it took me awhile.
I honestly don't even think Hillary is a very good candidate. She has the same problem Mitt Romney had (though maybe not to the same degree) of not being able to relate well average people, despite the fact that her platform would be even more in tune with them. I don't know what it is, but she seems kind of awkward and uncomfortable on the stump to me.
I don't think we can begin to call this one until a few debates and primaries are out of the way. Anything can happen, as we've seen in the past.
No matter what, I will not vote for her in the primaries, but I will vote for her in the general, unless we really have a viable left-leaning third candidate--an almost impossible event. I won't be happy about it, but even if I had to choose between two republicans, I'd vote for the least extreme, because no matter how bad they would be for this country, the other would be worse. I'm all for doing the least damage we can, because the further down we go, the harder it is to pull ourselves out of it--especially as far as Supreme Court decisions go. I won't stand on principle just to prove a point while the ship sinks more quickly around me.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)The left will suck up their dissatisfaction and find 'common ground'. The right has purity tests and RINOs.
If HRC were losing the majority of progressive voters, you can bet she would be singing a different tune.
tridim
(45,358 posts)And if people actually voted the way they believe, she would lose. She would never get repub votes and would lose the progressives. But they vote for the name, or to make a point. And yes, some agree whole heartedly with her.
Whereas if not-completely-insane repubs vote the way they believe, they get hammered from the t-baggers in the primaries.