Fire ex-military from police force

[Miigwech]

Not only has the American police force been getting ex-military equipment but has also been getting ex-soldiers from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Police departments actively recruit veterans - "Green to Blue" programs. Many of these police forces are made up of entirely of ex-military who are using the same tactics that they used in war zones - the hair trigger, shoot first gang. They are not retrained well enough to work on our streets, resorting to their war training. The police violate the constitutional rights of our fellow citizens more everyday, especially the citizens should have dark skin .... combat flashbacks? with a side order of racism for some? It is time to take away the military hardware and eliminate the war mentality from the police. The only way to do this is either retrain the
ex-military police of fire them, clean house. I bet that the officer who shot Michael Brown served in war. Enough is enough, why should I be more worried about getting abused or killed by the police then the criminals, even in our homes?

[BainsBane]

1. Is there evidence former military are disproportionately invovled in these incidents?

It's possible their higher level of training might make them less likely to overreact. What do you know about the backgrounds of some of these officers involved in high-profile incidents of murder and abuse?

[VanillaRhapsody]

2. I have been saying this all along.....our police forces are desert trained for 10 yrs worth

and they think their safety is above all of ours...because WE are the enemy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. The surplus equipment SHOULD be going to the National Guard Amories.....

that is the proper place for them....not to the active police force.

[The River]

4. Broad Brush Smear

You should delete it.

[Maedhros]

26. I think it's a legitimate concern, especially since the evidence in these cases repeatedly

calls into question the quality of police training.

I agree that it's a speculative post, and we can't assume that these incidents are a result of combat veterans serving in police forces, but I don't think it falls into the category of a smear.

[delta17]

28. It's basically a shot in the dark.

There is no evidence that veterans are worse officers than non-vets.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/retiring-the-vietnam-vet-stereotype/281321/

[Maedhros]

29. No, but what he said about poor police training on top of prior military training

has some traction. IMO, the problems we're seeing nationwide with police officers is a result of poor training from the ground up.

[delta17]

30. That poor training would apply to all officers, right?

By the way, military training isn't "Shoot anything that moves." I would think a combat veteran would be less likely to draw on a kid walking in the street.

Again, the stereotype of the violent, crazy war vet is wrong. They aren't ticking time bombs. Rambo was a movie, not reality.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. "Serve and Protect" devolves into "Search and Destroy". . .

. . ."shooting anything that moves". . .

. . .when this stuff happens.

[X_Digger]

7. You got some guns there... no, I mean the arms required to swing that brush. n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

8. Keep the National Guard at home and let them be used in exceptional cases

Almost no National Guard members were called up during Vietnam when we had a draft. We should use the National Guard inside the nation, only as a last resort if, God forbid, an uprising occurs (along with the guard's service during natural disasters and the like). The local police should tone it down and start relating to the community they police in, instead of acting like a foreign army of occupation.

[mwrguy]

12. Almost all the reserve Combat Arms units are Guard

Army Reserve has the support units.

I wonder why that is.

[Hoyt]

9. Don't think all or most x-military are a problem, but I've definitely heard SOME gunners talk as

as if we live in a war zone. I think evaluations should be required (and I suspect many police departments do them to some extent) to ensure the prospective policeperson internalizes that we are not living in a war zone.

My former FIL was retired military and a policeman. I think he was pretty decent. But then, he wasn't a gung ho type like many today (including police/military wannabes with their tough guy, gun toting mentality).

[mythology]

10. Perhaps you could be bothered to provide even the slightest bit of evidence

Or is this just a slam against military members?

[Calista241]

11. The COPS are overly militarized.

I can sorta be convinced that a swat team needs an armored vehicle. But not every cop needs an AR, combat fatigues and flash bangs.

Equipping the cops this way just forms a barrier between them and the people they're supposed to protect.

This whole episode is a tragedy.

[L0oniX]

13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71YvIOqNYws Here's the military/police connections.

Yep it's RT.

[Baitball Blogger]

14. We should have seen this coming.

Especially in Florida, our world has been turned upside down because ex-military officers take jobs or positions in the community and expect to make decisions without anyone questioning them. It creates crazy scenarios around here that can't be defended.

[Skittles]

15. ridiculous

[Miigwech]

16. Ask the Police in your city how many ex-military are currently on the force

...... I don't have all the facts by any means. But, to call my post ridiculous is closing the door to part of the problem, it is not just the military hardware that makes the police so aggressive.


https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing

[Skittles]

18. I am ex-military

I don't stereotype ex-military folk

a discussion regarding the militarization of the police force is fine; saying "fire all ex-military" is ridiculous

[Miigwech]

32. not what I said

I said fire or retrain. Military tactics are wrong for a civil police force. The police don't seem to have a problem using them. Why? I believe it has to do with the high number of ex-military with little or no transitional training into the civilian work force. I have posted several links discussing this problem. It is not disrespecting the veterans to discuss this.

[hack89]

19. "I don't have all the facts.." - You should have stopped right there

instead of smearing every military veteran.

[tammywammy]

20. "I don't have all the facts"

It's obvious you don't and your smearing of all veterans is disgusting.

[Miigwech]

23. Not smearing anyone - read this report

Of course you think by saying that I am smearing the military veterans, that will end the discussion. I don't disrespect our military at all, I just wonder that they are not being retrained properly to do civilian police work..... Read this report, please.

[link:http://cops.usdoj.gov/Publications/e011226431.pdf

|Law Enforcement Agency Responses
One limitation of this report is that it leaves many important questions
unanswered about the nature and extent of specific problems
that returning police officers are experiencing. The study was too small
to survey police officers who have returned from combat zones, and
most of the agency representatives who were interviewed on the telephone
provided only general observations. For example, one said that
some officers had difficulty transitioning from the “go-go-go mindset”
of active duty to the slower pace of in-service training or routine police
duties. Another said “signs of stress” had been reported regarding a
few officers. Several emphasized the importance of outreach to deployed
police officers’ families, while others suggested that equal or
greater attention be paid to potential problems among combat veterans
who apply for police work. Similarly, psychologists who reviewed a
draft of this report expressed concerns about the adequacy of current
psychological screening instruments for identifying unresolved, combat-
related mental health issues among police recruits. Finally, several
interview participants emphasized the importance of recognizing the
benefits that military veterans can bring to policing, such as leadership
skills, teamwork experiences, and weapons training.
The study did find a wide range of police department responses to
officers returning from combat zones. In some departments, officers
simply go back to work. As one police officer and SWAT team member
explained, his return from combat to law enforcement was essentially
a matter of “here’s your gun back,” no questions asked.Other
departments required some type of reorientation, training, and/or a
conversation about the availability of personal and family assistance.
They required, for example, firearms retraining and recertification,
and a meeting with a supervisor (but not with a professional mental
health or family services counselor). At various departments, the
supervisor brought the officer up to date on policies and procedures
that had changed and/or reminded the officer that personal and
family resources were available if needed, such as through the department’s
(or a city/county) employee assistance program, psychological
or behavioral services unit, or a peer assistance team.

[tammywammy]

24. Read your uncited "report"?

Yeah, I'll get right on that.

[Miigwech]

31. report from U.S. Dept. of Justice

I posted the link of the report:

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Community Oriented Policing Services
Barbara Webster
Institute for Law and Justice

http://cops.usdoj.gov/Publications/e011226431.pdf

[Miigwech]

17. Police killing civilians - asking why?

http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civilians-since-911/172029/

[NuclearDem]

21. Ugh.

Yes, the veterans are the problem here.

[yeoman6987]

22. Worst OP on DU ever. Shameful!

[FSogol]

25. Unrec. The modern version of spitting on the troops?

[rustydog]

27. I am inclined to believe that many are ex-military police who have police training

I could be wrong. But there is nothing wrong with ex-military being police officers. That is not the problem, It is the culture that is allowed to exist.
Start slapping-down offenders as hard as we, as a nation, pick on the poor, police departments would straighten up pretty quick and get rid of the assholes.

[RyanWill570]

33. Disagree...Are most of the individual members of police force...military?

The rate of military wanting to join the police force (through "green to blue" programs coupled with the amount who pass the academy and are sworn in.. (its a very difficult figure to get here on the internet... but its around 10-20%) That's pretty insignificant to begin with because they are barely even hired to begin with.

With that, it is safe to say it is mostly the police with no prior military experience who do the ugly stuff we here on the news. Its also important to understand the difference between experience and training. Experience is to actually use it in the field and then have the opportunity to assess yourself along with your peers in a concrete manner.

On the subject of race. Many of the peers those encounter mind you are of different races and you don't have the freedom to live anywhere you please (side note: the demographics of US military are not equivalent to the US civilian population..40% minorities as opposed to 28%) So, good luck being racist in the military) Once again, its more likely race card cases involving police have not an Ex-military member involved.

I think you will find that most of the time these police are simply bullies who may be too racist, or scared of real combat to join and are itching for a safe yet, real world scenario to get their rocks off. (Situations that a very rarely get and the military does: more than it wants. PTSD anyone?) All in all i think it's quite the opposite from your call to fire ex-military from the police forces and quite the contrary. Police officers should BE REQUIRED military experience or (at a minimal military training sponsorship) for a significant period of time because there is way too much room for them to be zealous, scared of people and lack discipline with any weapons they carry.