This Is Why We're Mad About the Shooting of Mike Brown

[n2doc]

By Kara Brown

18-year-old Michael Brown was gunned down on Saturday by a Ferguson police officer in St. Louis. Witnesses say Brown had his hands in the air as he was shot from 35 feet away.

As a black person in America, it's getting exhausting to still have to explain, in the year 2014, your right to exist in this country. To explain that you are a human being whose value sits no lower than anyone else's. To explain our basic humanity. And perhaps worst of all, to explain exactly why we are outraged.

We shouldn't have to explain why it's not acceptable for unarmed teenagers to be gunned down by the police.

We shouldn't have to explain why even though Mike Brown's life didn't matter to you or a Ferguson police officer, it mattered to someone.

more

http://jezebel.com/this-is-why-were-mad-about-the-shooting-of-mike-brown-1619522935

[samsingh]

1. this is beyond disgusting and i believe murder

[PDJane]

2. I understand perfectly why you're angry. I understand why there are riots.

I don't understand why the police and the oligarchy are still getting away with the things they do. Shooting pets, young men and young women of colour, and getting away with it. I don't get it.

It's institutionalized racism, and I don't understand why it continues.

[Skidmore]

7. Because people understand that police are rarely held accountable for corruption and

misconduct under the law. There are too many willing to cover for the bad apples. And it is not just the acts that you have identified, but the descending of SWAT teams on homes and finding out afterwards that they have the wrong house or that there was nothing on the premise that was illegal. Remember that baby that was so injured by the flash grenade the SWAT team tossed through the window? How do you defend against that? When an event is recorded then the person who recorded it is intimidated or arrested. Too much of this corrupt behavior all around.

[CrispyQ]

64. And it will just get harder to hold them accountable.

Massachusetts SWAT Teams Claim They're Private Corporations To Get Out Of Transparency Requests

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140627/09052427701/mass-swat-teams-claim-theyre-private-corporations-to-get-out-transparency-requests.shtml

snip...

As part of the American Civil Liberties Union's recent report on police militarization, the Massachusetts chapter of the organization sent open records requests to SWAT teams across that state. It received an interesting response. As it turns out, a number of SWAT teams in the Bay State are operated by what are called law enforcement councils, or LECs. These LECs are funded by several police agencies in a given geographic area and overseen by an executive board, which is usually made up of police chiefs from member police departments...Some of these LECs have also apparently incorporated as 501(c)(3) organizations. And it’s here that we run into problems. According to the ACLU, the LECs are claiming that the 501(c)(3) status means that they're private corporations, not government agencies. And therefore, they say they're immune from open records requests.

Now they won't have to tell us how often a SWAT team is sent vs. plain 'ole cops, or what types of weapons they use, or even what their procedures are when there is a baby in the house.

I just Googled baby Phonesavanh & this is the latest update I could find.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/06/26/update-on-baby-bou-bou-injured-in-swat-raid/

Atlanta (WAOK)- Nineteen month old Bounkham Phonesavanh who was critically injured in May when a flash grenade exploded in his play pen has been transferred to Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta at Scottish Rite to begin rehabilitation. The family continues to need financial support and are staying in a hotel to remain closer to their son. The family’s lawyer said the boy may have some brain damage.

“I was able to hold my son and hear his voice for the first time since the grenade exploded. After all that has happened to him, I am amazed at his strength. He has a long way to go but our prayers are being answered. We feel like it’s a miracle.” Bounkham Phonesavanh, Father of Baby Bou Bou

All donations for the family can be made to a Wells Fargo Bank Trust account in the name of Bounkham Phonesavanh. Online donations be made at www.justiceandprayersforboubou.org

Photos of the recovering little one with his parents at the link.

[BronxBoy]

18. You know why....

it's because far too many White people are OK with this. From the White police chief who automatically sides with his officer rather than wanting to see justice done to the all White or predominantly White juries that are just fine taking the word of a White officer over dozens of witnesses who just happen to be people of color.

It is what is it and we are getting sick and tired of it. It's not that complicated.

How do you think we feel when a spoiled rich White brat can drive drunk and fucking kill 4 people and not do a single day of jail time but young men like Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin, unarmed young men with no criminal records, get gunned down in the streets with no consequences?

I do not condone the violence that occurred last night. I feel it does nothing but play into the hands of those who believe every stereotype about us. But lets wring a few hands about the system that continually and without consequence allows this shit to perpetuate itself.

[PDJane]

22. Yes. The frustration absolutely has to lead to something........

Whether violence or simply protest after protest.

[Sissyk]

54. Very well said.

All of it.

[Cha]

66. Thank you, BronxBoy.. :(

[merrily]

3. Unacceptable is vastly understating it. It's heinous.

Heinous is also vastly understating it.

If this were an isolated incident, heinous might cover it. But it's been centuries and it happens all over the country.

[LittleBlue]

4. This is appalling

Being a black man who is afraid of the police shouldn't be a death sentence.

RIP Mike Brown

[historylovr]

68. Being a black man shouldn't be a death sentence, period.

[Rex]

5. The cop should be charged with murder.

No cop anywhere, has the right to murder someone...sadly it seems they do as far as authority is concerned. Just a paper shuffle, maybe a fine and a few weeks off...then right back on again, to murder someone else.

Cops are supposed to be there to protect us, not gun us down in the middle of the street with our hands high in the air.

[sabrina 1]

36. It was murder. If anyone else did it, it would be called what it is. I don't get why when a cop does

it, it is never murder. More should be expected of our supposed civilian police force, NOT less. But I bet this cop has a record of violence which appears to be the norm for cops today.

Maybe it takes riots to end this. Being reasonable sure hasn't stopped it.

It is shameful, appalling and criminal that this is still happening but not surprising.

[Rex]

75. I am pro-law enforcement. I know most of the cops in the little town I live in.

I know the chief-of-police by his first name. I cannot for the life of me imagine any of them murdering someone. It just boggles my mind how anyone could be a cop and decide to shoot someone that has their arms in the air in surrender!

I've had conversations with the chief about this trend in law enforcement and he is in agreement with me - NOBODY needs a tank, military tactical gear, military hardware.

The closest they come, is wearing bullet proof vests...which I can understand completely. No m-16s, no m-249s. No tanks or tactical gear.

[Little Star]

72. Yes he should and I hope someone has the balls to charge him....

this shit has to stop!

Makes me so sick I could puke.

[Rex]

76. We've got to stop this militarization of our police force.

They are not trained soldiers and the working environment does NOT call for military hardware. It is so out of control, just look at NYC and how corrupt the NYPD is....same with the LAPD.

They have to stop crime in law enforcement and treat it as a mortal sin.

[Louisiana1976]

6. Would Mike Brown have been gunned down had he been white? I doubt it.

[Rex]

9. Same here, I doubt it. nt.

nt.

[A Simple Game]

12. But soon it will be happening. To the people in power, and I hope nobody takes this the wrong way,

we are all black. The 1% don't care about color unless it's green. To them there are just too many of us.

[BronxBoy]

20. If he was homeless...

or mentally ill.....good chance.

[Enthusiast]

60. No way!

Double standard.

[blackspade]

8. Another day, another murder by police.

It is unforgivable.

I'm to a point where I don't think that there are good cops.
Just ones that haven't been caught yet.

[Iggo]

11. When good cops cover for bad cops, there aren't really any good cops. (n/t)

[ablamj]

29. +1,000,000,000,001

!

[Enthusiast]

61. I must agree.

[CrispyQ]

67. I have little experience with cops or their professiional or personal lives,

but Hollywood always presents this code of Blue that is never crossed & it sure seems it must be true, cuz these guys are rarely held accountable. They get paid leave & are usually back in their position after everything has died down. And so what message did said cop get? "Hey, I can brutalize the populace & get away with it." We may not have a full fledged police state, but we have everything in place for one.

[Sherman A1]

21. Just wondering

if it might not be wise to wait until the investigation is completed before calling it murder? I recall something about "innocent until proven..... " or something like that having been mentioned somewhere in the past.

[blackspade]

28. An 'investigation' done by whom?

Based on the number of murders committed by cops documented on this very site, I feel pretty confident that this is another one.

[Shandris]

37. The FBI and the County Sheriff concurrently.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-investigating-ferguson-police-shooting-teen-michael-brown-n177761

It's as disconnected from local Ferguson as possible, so I hope it's a quality investigation. That poor community needs and deserves it.

[Sherman A1]

40. I this case

the investigation was turned over to the St. Louis County Police Department the same day, now I understand the FBI is also involved at some level. Nevertheless should it be a trial by media or should the investigating authorities at least have a chance to present their findings or have you been declared judge and jury?

[blackspade]

42. It's called an opinion.

If I see info that contradicts it, then I will change my mind.
But at this point, my opinion, is that this yet another murder by cop.

[Sherman A1]

44. Indeed it is an opinion

And one that is not supported by any facts as they are not yet available.

[blackspade]

49. Oh, that's right, move along, nothing to see here.

[Sherman A1]

59. never said that

but nice try at putting words in my mouth (actually a pretty poor attempt, but you are on a roll there). Simply said that the investigation should be completed before judgement is rendered, or do you suggest that we ditch the Constitution?

[Rex]

78. YEP!

Some people on this site will say ANYTHING to apologize for cops! It is sad and pathetic.

[Rex]

77. Cop shot someone with their hands in the air in surrender!

Wow, you are amazing.

[BklnDem75]

55. In the beating death of Kelly Thomas...

3 officers were ruled not guilty in a court of law. Does that mean Kelly Thomas really wasn't beaten to death by those 3 and more officers?

Did this not really happen?

[Sherman A1]

58. Does that mean

that judgement should be rendered without due process?

[BklnDem75]

63. You mean what was denied to Michael Brown and John Crawford last week?

How exactly do our demands for justice affect the yet unnamed officer's due process?

[JustAnotherGen]

85. This is it exactly

He received NO DUE Process.

That's a basic civil liberty.

[noiretextatique]

104. due process is a joke

The entire Jusyice system is corrupt and polluted. How many video tapes are needed to prove it to your lying eyes?

[noiretextatique]

82. too many of these police murders

To bury my head in the sand. IF people stop pretending these are not murders, which they are, perhaps things will change. Unfortunately, it is still acceptable, even normal, for police to murder black men.

[ColesCountyDem]

10. "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

[pintobean]

13. Our local news says the cop will

be identified by tomorrow, in accordance with the law.

I don't have a very high opinion of St. Louis County cops, but I believe their leadership will conduct a thorough and fair investigation. I also have confidence in the St. Louis County Prosecutor. The fact that Ferguson turned the investigation over to the county is a good sign.

My heart goes out to the Brown family and the Ferguson community. I hope they get the justice they seek. RIP Michael.

[BronxBoy]

16. The sad thing is....

We know who Micheal Brown is and even as I type this, people are digging into his background to try to turn up anything, no matter how minor the transgression to turn this young man into a "thug"

Meanwhile the cop sits on paid leave anonymously.

[Ilsa]

24. Of course. Blame the victim for

some unrelated minor transgression, like smoking in the boys room. Or he made a youtube video decrying the judgment in the Trayvon trial. It's disgusting how they try to rationalize bigotry and murder.

[RebelOne]

14. The mother and grandfather with their attorney

were just on Al Sharpton's Politics Nation show. The mother was so distraught she was hardly able to speak. The attorney and grandfather had to do most of the talking. This shooting was surely murder.

[BronxBoy]

15. K&R....

until I have the time to respond in detail.

[Logical]

17. Prediction.........

The cop/cops will get some paid vacation and the citizens will pay this mans family a lot of money. Most of the time this is all that happens.

Or the DA, which is biased so he does not piss of the police department, will present BS evidence to a Grand Jury which will not charge the officer.

[surrealAmerican]

19. There is something very seriously wrong ...

... with the way we train police officers in this country.

If this were an "isolated incident", the officer who shot him would be regarded as unfit for duty, and a likely criminal (pending an investigation). As it stands, it looks alarming like "business as usual".

[mckara]

23. Outrageous Events!

What in the hell is wrong with law enforcement and rampant racism in America?

[Viva_Daddy]

25. How does one justify shooting an unarmed suspect (however non-compliant) 10 TIMES?

[hfojvt]

26. What witnesses?

I don't find his friends story to be credible.

If you are a black person who is explaining that your life has a value no lower than anybody else's, then you are wasting your time.

Because most people do not doubt that.

Mike Brown doesn't matter less to me than Robin Williams, even though I sorta knew and liked Robin Williams. But they are both basically strangers, and for Robin to die at age 63 is, to me, far less of a tragedy than for Mike to die at 18. 63 is a fairly long life, and 18 is just too dang young to die.

But at the same time, IF he did attack that police officer, what then? Is the cop just supposed to stand there and take it? Supposed to have a solid belief that "he's probably a great guy, so I am in no real danger"? Or supposed to think "well he is only hitting me with his fists so I cannot defend myself with my gun?"

That's not how I operate, so I don't expect that of anybody else.

[Shandris]

32. What I find to be most sad about this whole thing...

...is that almost no one actually gives a damn about the man himself (Michael Brown).

Conservatives and, more specifically, racists are using it as 'proof' of how 'all blacks are' and as such are simply playing politics, painting their points in the man's blood.

Others are using it as 'proof' of the 'white racism', despite current rumors circulating that the officer in question was black (unconfirmed either direction at the moment), or the nature of conflicting stories from witnesses, all in an environment widely known to not cooperate with police under any circumstances (spoken with NO judgment on that attitude or philosphy; merely a statement of widely-known fact). They're painting their points in the man's blood.

Ironically enough, both sides yield the exact same result. It's almost as if someone wants widespread mistrust and hatred between the races. Now, I wonder why that could be. Ah, right...because it makes money for certain organizations.

In the meantime, they're using people -- in this case, Michael Brown, his family, his community, and people of ALL COLORS who support a thorough investigation and administration of justice -- as cannon fodder for their political agendas. Disgusting.

Edit: In case it isn't clear, this is NOT directed at the person I quoted, but a springboard from that poster's observations.

[nomorenomore08]

38. And why are you so quick to believe the cop's story, and disbelieve witnesses?

[hfojvt]

45. because I think a story needs to make some sense

"Dorian Johnson said he was walking with Brown in the middle of the street when a police car pulled up. The officer told the teens to use the sidewalk, according to Johnson.

After an exchange of words, the officer shot Brown even after he raised his hands in the air, Johnson said.

The officer "shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and put his hands in the air," Johnson told KMOV. "He started to get down and the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and fired several more shots.""

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/10/justice/missouri-police-involved-shooting/index.html

That story simply does not make any sense.

Even a racist psycho should have more sense than to act like that. To shoot a person over "an exchange of words" and then to keep shooting? In broad daylight? In front of witnesses?

That only works in some sort of bizarro world where the whole police department and the FBI is part of the Klan, or maybe goblins like in the book "Twilight Eyes". That does not fit any world that makes sense to me, although I suppose it could happen, somewhere.

But I am more likely to believe a story that fits the world as I know it, as I understand it.

Because in the world I know, people often make up stories. So a story with a lot of holes in it, is one I am gonna doubt, a story without any sort of logic to it.

[nomorenomore08]

46. Thing is, these "racist psycho" cops know a lot of people will stick up for them *no matter what*.

It's a sick, sad reality, but there are those who assume any violent police action against a black male must be justified, because, well, you know how "those people" are, wink wink.

[hfojvt]

50. "a lot of people will stick up for them"

Except that there are plenty of cops who have gone to prison, or been fired.

My own easy prediction is that there is no way he comes out of this untouched and alive, that his life even goes on as normal, much less becomes better. In his best case scenario, if he is exonerated by officialdom, he can still expect to be pilloried in the media and threatened by vigilantes. Some people are already sure of his guilt and NOTHING, not even a video of the incident would change their minds. And since there's no video, he's got nothing.

Can he go back to work with his name cleared? Hell no, not ever gonna happen even if his name is cleared. His life as he knew it as he lived it last week, is already over. No sane person would want to be in his shoes.

Again, I am operating under the, perhaps unwarranted assumption, that most people are basically sane.

[nomorenomore08]

56. If his story turns out to be bullshit - and numerous witness accounts contradict it completely -

then he deserves all the venom people can muster, along with a lengthy prison term. If it somehow turns out not to be bullshit, then I feel bad for him, but I don't really blame people for jumping to conclusions, considering how often cops use excessive force especially against people of color.

I too would like to think "that most people are basically sane." But for many white people, race is a subject that seems to make them lose all rationality - I guess because they hate other races that freaking much.

[BklnDem75]

69. Only 13 officers and 1 FBI agent convicted of murder...

None ever in the line of duty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_police_officers_convicted_of_murder

[hfojvt]

73. you assume that is a complete list?

I quickly found one convicted of manslaughter - in the line of duty. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Ex-Police-Officer-Found-Guilty-Involuntary-Manslaughter-188842921.html

and here's another convicted of manslaughter - in the line of duty
http://guardianlv.com/2013/11/oklahoma-cop-convicted-in-killing-of-teen/

You think those cops are sitting in prison laughing "ha ha, I got away with it, I only got four years in prison instead of life"?

And I could probably find more stories if I kept looking. Those are just two from the first page of google.

[BklnDem75]

81. Perhaps they don't count manslaughter as outright murder

I'm sure these two 'officers' aren't laughing at the 3-4 years they're doing, especially since they figured they'd get away without punishment. It was murder in both instances. They should be looking at 25 to life.

[Rex]

79. LOL! You are unbelievable.

So because your ego cannot handle a cop just broadsiding someone and murdering them...it cannot be true.

No wonder you never win an argument on DU.

[noiretextatique]

84. this one has a problem

That guarantees he is one the wrong side of any racial issue. It disgusts me that DU allows him to stay.

[hfojvt]

92. excuse me

At last count I have won FOUR arguments at DU.

Making my record 4-173.

NOT 0-177

4-173.

Get your facts straight please.

Where's The Watcher? Isn't he the official score-keeper? He'll back me up on this.

And not just because I've bought him a lot of beer.

Although that probably is a factor.

[uponit7771]

43. The girl with the Camera who took pics? Really? What witness's!? Brown was shot in the back!!!

...and what about the killing AFTER the attack?!

The young man was running... the cop was NOT in danger... the young mans hands were in the air!!!

His grand mother saw him running home!!!

[hfojvt]

48. What girl with the camera?

I have not read every story, basically only the one on CNN http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/10/justice/missouri-police-involved-shooting/index.html

If you have some stories with facts, then I am happy to reconsider. The OP didn't seem to include any facts, perhaps if I followed the link, but since it just seemed like more straw (trying to prove or state that "black people's lives matter" when most people accept that as a given.) why bother to continue reading?

But that's why I asked "what witnesses"? Because the guy in the CNN story was supposedly a witness too.

[bravenak]

51. What would you say if I told you he was shot in the back?

Justified or non justified. If it were say, your pizza guy.

[hfojvt]

52. I'd say "How do you know?"

But yeah, shooting in the back isn't justified (except in rare cases maybe when you are behind somebody who has a gun drawn on somebody else or some such).

My pizza guy?

More like my insurance agent.

[bravenak]

53. It's been reported he was shot in the back, and that he had his hands up.

So, when the coroners report comes out, if he was in fact, shot in the back as reported by witnesses, you would be convinced that it was unjustified? Me too.

I keep waiting for the report so we can see where these 8 shots landed.

For an unarmed youth committing the crime of jaywalking, doesn't shooting him eight times seem excessive? It does to me, even without the report.

Edit: I just got the thing about the insurance agent.

[Rex]

80. It won't matter, he will change his story to fit the new narrative.

Some people here will apologize for anything cops do, usually because they live in their little world and don't know or care about anyone else but their brother or sister that is a cop.

It is telling how small of a world some live in here.

[hfojvt]

91. None of my siblings are cops

But some of my co-workers are. Just heard yesterday that one of them has brain cancer and is not expected to live.

Probably in an hour or so I am going to talk to a lawyer to see if I can sue the cop/city.

There was an episode of the Rockford files where a female detective and Rockford solved some crime, and while they were inside explaining things, she got a parking ticket. She's trying to explain things to the cop, who just keeps writing the ticket. After she takes the ticket, she says "I try, I really try, but dammit Jim, I hate cops."

I often think of that line.

Another of my aphorisms is that "supervisors are like cops, there's never one around when you need one, and there's always one around when you don't."

[bravenak]

101. Some people are scared of the demographic changes.

They feel fearful just like the cops. I have never seen so many cops 'scared for their lives' around unarmed civilans in my life. They better hope our grandchildren are better than they are. Otherwise will my grandchildren treat their grandchildren like they have treated our children? Will the racism boomerang and harm their descendants in the furture 'brown' nation? Will these instances be used as 'excuses' to harm white youth in a hundred years? Gotta break the cycle now. Or I predict it will.

[morningfog]

74. Scary black man, shoot out of fear.

[noiretextatique]

83. how surprising...but not since you are an admitted racist

Yes, Admins. This person admitted he is a racist in a PM to me, which I forwarded to you, and yet he still allowed to pollute DU with his racist crap. are admitted racists allowed here or not?

[demmiblue]

93. Jury results:

On Tue Aug 12, 2014, 06:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

how surprising...but not since you are an admitted racist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5374336

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Sorry I have to alert. I went back and re-read my PM and I don't see how that could possibly be an honest reading of what I wrote. Quite clearly, neither did the Admins see that in what I wrote. I'm not going to share the PM in this alert because PMs are supposed to be PRIVATE messages. So it will be hard for a jury to judge, but according to this post the Admins have seen the PM and apparently judged in my favor. She can call me a racist and I would not alert as that is her opinion but for her to claim that I admitted I was a racist is just false. And to think I PMed her because I thought we could be friends.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 12, 2014, 07:11 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Under normal conditions, I would unquestionably hide this. However, I am quite sure that hfojvt is a right wing troll who is waaaaay past his expiration date. I am inclined to believe noire as to the contents of that PM. I hope either party posts the PM so we can get to the bottom of this.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Can't we leave the name calling to the idiots over at Free Republic
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When reading the posts in context I think the post by noiretextatique should stay. Let the DU audience judge for themselves.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No way for me to decide who is telling the truth on this.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[noiretextatique]

94. good

This pollutant should have been axed a long time ago.

[noiretextatique]

95. I checked...deleted the PM. but I would love to see it

Last edited Tue Aug 12, 2014, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

If the sender has a copy. It definitely was not friendly. Please post and let the community judge. I was offended enough to delete it, so I hope the sender has the cajones to post it and let everyone see if it as friendly as he claims. I double dog dare him.

[hfojvt]

97. on THAT I will agree with you, and said so at the time

although I would remind the four blind mice on the jury that once upon a time it was against the rules of courtesy even to call a liar a liar.

Here are the two PMs I sent, with your reply in between.

"Okay, that was a nasty reply.

All kinds of people are suspected all the time for various reasons.

Should be ashamed of what? And what racism? The racism of not thinking Zimmerman should have gotten his ass kicked?

**yours***

> thanks...it's about time.
> being a RACIST doesn't give anyone the right to follow or suspect a black person. Trayvon Martin is dead because a racist asshole decided he "looked suspicious," confronted him, against the advice of the police dispatcher, and shot him. probably because he was getting his racist ass kicked...which he fully deserved. Trayvon Martin's only "crime" was "walking while black" in a neighborhood where his father lived, he had the misfortune of running into a psycho fuck with a gun.
> zimmerman is a legend in his own mind, and was a nuisance, according to some of his neighbors.
> you should be ashamed, but that's something the escapes the racist mind.
>

my original message

> > http://www.koch2congress.com/
> >
> > Of course, if I had a daughter, she would look like Brittney Watts.
> >
> > And I never said, nor meant to imply, that racism is not real. I am quite sure that racism is real.
> >
> > I don't believe Mr. Martin's unfortunate death is the best example of it though. He's not the new Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King. I believe he is dead today because he chose to beat the crap out of somebody instead of just running home. That doesn't mean I think he should have died, but I can feel empathy for Zimmerman too. A guy who gave his own time to try to keep his neighbors from getting robbed. I might do the same thing myself - get involved, try to help. And if somebody is on top of me, punching me in the face, I am gonna shoot them before I let them knock me out.
> >
> > Being followed does not give you the right to assault somebody, in my book. Heck, just the other day I had three neighbors suspecting me of breaking in to my own house.
> >
> > Yet the liberal blogosphere and MSNBC and other liberal media are treating him like he is James Byrd or Martin Luther King. He's noty the only young black kid who was gunned down.
> >
> > http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=449366 "

And now, I'm off to see a lawyer (so I can sue a police department hopefully).

[noiretextatique]

98. racist is as racist believes

Trayvon Martin, according to you, had no right whatsoever to defend himself against an attacker. You profiled and found him guilty of walking while black, and swallowed Zimmerman's Bs whole. And you are doing it again...like you always do. You are always in support of white or perceived white people killing black people. Thanks for playing...but you are still a racist. You cannot see it, but I am hopeful DU will...eventually. Frankly, it is long overdue.

[Warpy]

27. Brown had his hands up and was 35 feet away, about 30 feet from being a direct physical threat?

That cop needs to be off the street for a very, very long time, until he's too weak to pick up a gun and too blind to aim it.

The whole police department needs to be evaluated to find out what part of its culture allowed a man to think he could blow away a kid just for being black and walking in his own neighborhood.

[missingfink]

31. Ferguson is the local suburb where the killing took place

The Ferguson policeman/shooter has yet to be identified. As the STL Post-Dispatch said, the policeman will get plenty of due process, the victim didn't get any.

[Warpy]

33. Thanks for the correction

My eyesight still isn't the best. Sometimes the world makes more sense than other times.

[ancianita]

30. Murder. Goddamned right it was. Sick of this shit.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, n2doc.

[rickyhall]

35. Every life lost lessens us

[OldRedneck]

39. If 18-yr-old Michael Brown had been carrying a shotgun . . .

If 18-yr-old Michael Brown had been carrying a shotgun, proclaiming his right to "open carry," he would not have been shot . . . if he'd been white.

http://kdvr.com/2014/08/01/aurora-teen-walks-on-busy-streets-with-shotgun-videotapes-encounters-with-police/

[locdlib]

41. For me it's way beyond being mad, pissed, disgusted.

I don't know if there is a word that exists that can describe how I feel about this country. This place that allows things like this to happen and does absolutely nothing. The attitude is that black people need to figure out a way to avoid being killed. Because the color of your skin makes you kill-able. The unidentified shooter is on desk duty while they investigate his murdering an unarmed teenager. In broad daylight. For walking. That young man's body laid out in the street for several hours while "evidence was being collected." My heart grieves for his family. It keeps happening because nothing is ever done. And since nothing is ever done it will continue to happen until something drastic happens. Black life has no worth in amerikkka. I will not stand up for a country that not only wants to sit on me, it wants to kill me because of my skin color. Not because of anything I say or do, but because of my skin color. Amerikkka is not beautiful. It is shameful.

[nomorenomore08]

47. +1000000

[noiretextatique]

96. shameful is the right word

There are too many of these incidents to pretend they are isolated or provoked. Unless you believe being black should
result in a death sentence. Just to be cyrstal clear: hokding steadfast to that belief means you are a racist.

[indepat]

57. It's a rotten shame if the DOJ is not investigating each and every instance wherein circumstances

indicate someone's civil rights have been violated via the wrongful (criminal) taking of a life.

[Enthusiast]

62. Kicked and recommended!

[GoneFishin]

65. It's murder and should be prosecuted exactly like any other (non-cop actor) murder would be.

Fucking enough already!!

[The Green Manalishi]

70. But, as a white guy who has never suffered at the hands of the cops, can you you explain

something to me?

I mean, honestly, I just don't get why, when it's the police that shot and killed the guy, and the court system that will fail to punish anyone responsible, what looting some local store or burning down a gas station or other building does? Having never been the victim, being a middle class raised and living middle aged white guy in a small town, if I *were* outraged about something, be it our criminal wars or our terrible treatment of refugee children (and I am), I wouldn't go torch or loot some business in my neighborhood or break windows at some store that had nothing to do with the incident.

Just honestly confused; I could see attacking the police station, maybe even some police cars, but looting? Not having been in such a situation, and having been part of protests where the assholes who wanted to start a riot were quickly told by members of the community "NO" with the threat of getting their asses kicked (and nearly every protest around here has provocateurs from a local big city who come into town, try to start violence and then leave, but even grief stricken community leaders tell them where to get off)....

We're trying to get justice for Andy Lopez here, but it is not going to be brought closer by some idiots breaking windows or overturning cars.

[uponit7771]

71. "what looting some local store or burning down a gas station or other building does? " Scale of...

... control

If you have the resources you take frustrations out through means that allow for those resources...

Courts
Friends
Protesting

If you don't? ... then anything is game, and its usually where a lot of liquor is at

JMHO

[n2doc]

87. Why do people loot stores and burn cars when their sports team wins a championship?

People do stupid things when they are excited, and probably drunk. In this case I think it is mainly opportunity, they want to express their rage at something. And I suspect the police stations are either far away or very heavily armed/blockaded.

[Little Star]

99. bingo....

That looting crap doesn't excuse the killing of Michael Brown but people like to redirect the subject so they will try anything to do that.

[The Green Manalishi]

106. True

Notice how the racists love to redirect the subject to the rioting instead of the police malfeasance?

[TheKentuckian]

88. While not a defense, what good is what you think is appropriate doing either.

Nobody with power and control cares about your marching around with signs. Strike that, virtually no one cares or even know.

I think the system actually likes protests, gives "the malcontents" something cathartic to do that changes nothing and provides a few heads to cracked to make an example or even to discredit the protesters.

[The Green Manalishi]

90. Yeah.

And I always wonder how many of these are 'false flag' originated. It seems that often riots are started by people from out of the immediate area, which would be very convenient if it was actually agent provocateurs.

[Amimnoch]

102. Try to imagine..

From your earliest childhood memories that people have treated you differently.

Imagine that by the time you were an adolecent, instead of people looking on and saying what promise you have, white women see you walking by, and clutch their purses closer to their chest, or the men reach back and check their wallet just because you happened to walk by them.

Imagine you walking out of a grocery store, and passing by a car that has an occupant that hurredly locks their car door as you just pass near.

Imagine a family member, or close friend getting killed, and not a damn thing ever being done about it. Now imagine it happening to you 3 to 7 times over the course of your life from childhood to 30 years of age. All this where you see all kinds of TV shows, and movies showing Justice, yet for you and your kind it seems like there is often none to be found.

How do you feel when you walk into a police station? Do you feel safe, or do you feel instantly like a suspect? How about walking into a gas station store at 11pm at night.. Does the clerk behind the bullet proof glass behind the counter just briefly look up at you and maybe offer you a good evening, or does that clerk watch you apprehensively, or outright suspiciously? Has a clerk behind a counter ever told you, as soon as you walk in that they don't carry much money, just out of the blue?

This incident, and the results weren't just about this shooting.. this was about many people who've faced a lifetime of pent up frustration and anger at this kind treatment.

[The Green Manalishi]

107. I've tried. And I can't

Except for a few years where I had long hair, being a (very) white, middle class, property owning male makes it hard to understand some stuff. That doesn't mean I get any less outraged about crap like this, Treyvon or far too many others, just that my background and education make me think "what can we *do* to change the situation rather than lashing out in rage.
One can count their blesssings but still try to understand the misfortune of others.

[MissDeeds]

86. If I was Black and had a son

I would be terrified. I cannot imagine the anguish of fearing for the safety of your child 24/7. What have we become?



K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

89. We should see if these cops voted against Obama to keep "those people" under control.

[Amimnoch]

100. Also infuriating is the police spokesperson refusing to give details to reporters.

I swear, there should be a law that all law enforcement desigated spokespersons be legally obligated to give details, as they are known at that time, of any incident where there is a police shooting, and even more so when that shooting results in a death.

They should be obligated to release the initial statement of the officer('s) who did the shooting.

They should be obligated to release eyewitness statements taken (with the sole exception being if the release could endanger the life of the eyewitnesses.)

They are supposed to be public servants, not public executioners. Was there any justification.. at all.. for this shooting? Hell, I don't know. I'm very doubtful, and the "spokesperson" who represents the damn department, yet refuses to speak about it.. doesn't help them at all with public opinion. Public servants, and law enforcement in particular are supposed to be the apex of civility, morality, and standards of behavior.. they are entrusted with a very special responsibility, and I personally think that the penalty for failing to meet higher standards when it comes to this level of failure should be much more extreme than it would be for the average joe. Instead, it all too often seems that instead of being held to a higher standard, they are exempted from being held responsible for their actions period.

[passiveporcupine]

103. we still don't know what happened after he was first stopped by the police

We know the outcome, which was tragic, and wrong. I don't care if they were in a scuffle in the police cruiser and Brown was wrestling for the gun. Why was he wrestling for the gun? That's what we need to know.

According to the Thom Hartman video on the front page, the two youth were walking down the middle of the street and the officer pulled up and said something to the affect "get the fuck on the sidewalk". The surviving youth (a girl apparently, named Doran Johnson) said they were almost home and they would be out of the street in a moment. Well that was a mistake...arguing with a policeman while black.

All kids walk and play in residential streets. Why would police be harrassing them for that? Sounds like the cop had a bad attitude before anything even happened. And it escalated from there. I'm hoping we can get some honest answers from witnesses. I wish there was a cam on the cop car to record all this. I don't expect to get an honest answer from this cop.

[cornball 24]

105. A THOROUGH psychiatric evaluation should be conducted

on anyone who applies for a position in law enforcement. These evaluations should be given on an annual basis to at least make an effort to weed out the nut jobs who use their badges to behave like thugs.