President Jimmy Carter: "How To Fix It": Ending this war in Gaza begins with recognizing Hamas

[Fred Sanders]

as a legitimate political actor.


"Former President Jimmy Carter once again is getting way out in front of the U.S. government on the Middle East, co-authoring an op-ed in which he calls for Washington to recognize designated terror group Hamas as a legitimate "political actor" -- while blasting Israel for its military campaign in the Gaza Strip.

"The scathing column on ForeignPolicy.com was written by Carter and Ireland's former president Mary Robinson.

The article called the current conflict a "humanitarian catastrophe," and while acknowledging Hamas' "indiscriminate targeting" of Israelis, focused its criticism on Israel.

"There is no humane or legal justification for the way the Israeli Defense Forces are conducting this war," they wrote. "Israeli bombs, missiles, and artillery have pulverized large parts of Gaza, including thousands of homes, schools, and hospitals."

They said "deliberate attacks on civilians" constitute "war crimes" on both sides, though noting far fewer Israelis have been killed in the fighting."

........................................

"Hamas cannot be wished away, nor will it cooperate in its own demise," Carter writes, along with Mary Robinson, in a Foreign Policy op-ed Tuesday. "Only by recognizing its legitimacy as a political actor — one that represents a substantial portion of the Palestinian people — can the West begin to provide the right incentives for Hamas to lay down its weapons."

Also in the op-ed, Carter faults Israel for stonewalling multilateral attempts at peace and for dangerously isolating Palestinians in Gaza, saying the "necessary requirements for a human standard of living continue to be denied." And though he accuses both Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes through their "deliberate" attacks on civilians, he reserves his strongest criticisms for the IDF.


http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/265836/speedreads-jimmy-carter-israel-must-recognize-hamas-as-a-legitimate-political-actor

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/04/how_to_fix_it_jimmy_carter_mary_robinson_israel_palestine_gaza_hamas

______________________________________________________________________________

President Carter is saying exactly what many on DU have been saying for a month....is he anti-Israel also? Does he also not "get it"? Does his voice and so many others imperatively need to be suppressed so the killing can continue? Will the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset get his wish for a final ending to the Palestinian problem, send them to concentration camps abroad.....or else?

[upaloopa]

1. I'd say Jimmy Carter has a lot more on the ball

then DUers who defend Israel's killing.

[Iamthetruth]

59. I'd say he's lost it

Hamas has no desire for peace with Israel, now the PLA yes, hamas no chance.

[Capt. Obvious]

74. Welcome to DU

[Laelth]

2. k&r for James Earl Carter, Jr.

He is right, once again.



-Laelth

[4now]

3. The seige of Gaza needs to end

How else are the Palestinian civilians going to recover.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. The president needs to send Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton to sort this out

But then I've been thinking that for years...

[regnaD kciN]

43. Carter, yes -- Clinton, no…

…not since the latter has decided to boost his wife's 2016 campaign by kissing up to Bibi, serving as an apologist for the Gaza genocide, and even resuscitating and re-spreading the already-disproven meme that Hamas has been storing their rockets inside U.N. schools.

[Rhiannon12866]

45. Actually, I was thinking of him more as an adviser to President Carter, LOL

I remembered how he was so good at recalling the make up of neighborhoods when he was attempting to broker peace between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat. But you're right, Clinton's no doubt concentrating on other things, these days. And, from what I've seen, President Carter does just fine all on his own...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. "Hamas cannot be wished away, nor will it cooperate in its own demise,"

Bingo.

They were voted into power and that means they have to be seen as more than a cartoon of a terrorist.

You could START by talking to their diplomats instead of playing dueling press conferences.

[leftynyc]

54. Diplomats?

Like who? This spokesman?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wolf-blitzer-confronts-hamas-spox-for-his-disturbing-blood-libel-remarks/

I think it's adorable that you think a terrorist organization that has in its charter to kill all Jews has diplomats.

[Fred Sanders]

72. "Kill all Jews" is not in their Charter, more lies. Give it up, Israel's moral failures are clear.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

77. Funny how a "Liberal" will suddenly buy Right Wing propaganda if it's anti-Palestinian.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

75. I think it's cute to use Wolf Blitzer as a reliable source for the truth....

BTW: What they say about Hamas is the same thing they used to say about the PLO.

[bigwillq]

6. K and R

[Uncle Joe]

7. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Fred Sanders.

[RobertEarl]

8. Fred is a good 'un.

Many thanks for all you've done Fred.

[hifiguy]

78. This.

And my thanks too, Fred.

[Fred Sanders]

79. Thank you. Too many freaking liberals buying into obvious propaganda...shades of Iraq.

[joshcryer]

9. Recognize Hamas? That's absurd.

[boston bean]

10. agreed. nt

[Uncle Joe]

11. No, it's the most logical path to peace. n/t

Last edited Tue Aug 5, 2014, 11:32 PM - Edit history (1)

[joshcryer]

13. No it isn't.

They haven't even had elections in 8 years. They are basically a mafia-style entity.

[Uncle Joe]

15. Hamas just agreed to a unity government with Fatah in the West Bank and were

going to have elections.

[joshcryer]

17. They were also supposedly "going to" stop the rockets.

After erecting a monument to them of course.

[Uncle Joe]

24. When Israel and Hamas were cooperating with each other in 2013 rocket attacks dropped 98%

Rocket attacks increased 1500% when Israel started attacking Gaza in July based on lies that Hamas was behind the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

Annual number of attacks and casualties[1][137][140][141][142][143] Year Dead Injured Rocket attacks Mortar attacks

Total attacks Total attacks
% change
2001 0 4 4+
2002 0 35 35+ negative increase 775%
2003 0 155 155+ negative increase 343%
2004 4 281 281+ negative increase ?81%
2005 2 401 854 1,255 negative increase 346%
2006 2 371 1,722 55 1,777 negative increase ?42%
2007 2 578 1,276 1,531 2,807 negative increase ?58%
2008 8 611 2,048 1,668 3,716 negative increase ?32%
Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza after Operation Cast Lead to stop missile fire into Israel[144] and arms import into Gaza.[145][146]
2009 0 11 569 289 858 positive decrease ?77%
2010 1 35 150 215 365 positive decrease ?57%
2011 2 81 419 261 680[147] negative increase ?86%
2012 * 6[136][148] 284+ 2,256[149] 17 2,273+[150][151] negative increase 234%?
2013 0 32 12 44 positive decrease 98%
2014 1 16 680 25 705 negative increase 1500%
Total * 28 1971+ 10,138 4,890 15,047

The monument you speak of is born of frustration and is nothing but this

for Israel having turned Gaza into an open air prison ghetto.

[joshcryer]

25. That was after "Pillar of Defense."

They'd well depleted their resources in 2012 and Israel bombed the crap out of them.

It goes in cycles, they spend a year building up rocket reserves, then dump them, cycle, rinse, repeat.

Let's see if they stop the rockets now. If they do then they might be recognizable.

But they won't and we've had this discussion before. And you'll just act as if Hamas doesn't have to stop the rockets now since they've endured excessive force.

The rockets must stop before any sort of recognition happens.

[jberryhill]

27. what that does

Is put the situation under the control of any moron with a rocket.

I don't think that guy should be given so much power.

[joshcryer]

32. Not really.

One or two you can shrug off as some idiot. Hundreds you know Hamas needs to take responsibility.

[jberryhill]

37. you were saying "no rockets" right?

Let's say there is gang violence going on and the police lock down the city. This becomes intolerable, there are a number of police/citizen interactions which go bad, and the mayor says "if we go one day without a senseless shooting, we'll loosen up."

Who is in charge of the situation there? The least stable motherfucker in town.

We've seen the Ariel Sharon production of this same movie before. The Likudniks are a gang of their own.

You know, a couple of years ago the domain name kahane.net became the first Internet domain name to make it to the OFAC SDN list. I don't have to tell you what was there. The domain name dropped for non-renewal and I picked it up for shits and giggles. I turned on "catch all" email for the domain (that is collected inbound email for [e-mail]. After spam filtering that load, what you get are emails from people who didn't update their address book, you get cc'd on a lot of stuff, and you get reminders of accounts former users had at other places. You can use that info to "recover" passwords to those accounts, and get a good feel for the activities of people who had accounts at kahane.net. I got a pretty good feel for where there heads were at, and the whole vibe of this situation makes me think that they're sort of mind poison has broken out like a nutjob Ebola virus.

I mean, look, if we want to disagree about military action of some kind, that's fine. You can say that what is happening is appropriate to the circumstances, okay? But the really creepy thing to me is not even that. The really creepy thing is the outright refusal to even consider any iota of responsibility for both the circumstances and the consequences of this action. I mean none. I mean complete and utter moral blamelessness,

Just as a general proposition, reality is never that stark. Now, when you can fire an artillery shell to take out one person, and you take out ten other people, you are a human - a moral actor in that loop. If you can say, "but it's all that guy's fault" you are actually dehumanizing yourself. You have reduced yourself to a mere cog of a machine, with no more humanity than a machine. What is this doing to the psyches of the young men and women of the IDF? And what does it mean to the next generation of leadership which will rise from among their ranks?

And, again, my horror is not premised on whether someone thinks the scale of this action is necessary or appropriate. It is at the inability to even conceive of a point on the scale that would be "too much", or even see the scale at all.

If the idea is to take out some dude here or there, for example, or a tunnel entrance at some point, then wouldn't you prefer drones to artillery? Is that a trade you'd make?

Here you go
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/domain_of_terror-38371614.html

[joshcryer]

39. I don't think it's appropriate at all.

I don't think Israel should even react to the hundreds of daily rocket barrages. I think Israel need only wait it out. Israeli citizens will die. PTSD for children will go up (air raid sirens 15-20 times a day is difficult to ignore). It's a crappy sacrifice but then Palestinians might realize the millions being funneled into rockets isn't worth it and reject Hamas. It could take years though.

But that's never happening, Likud would never allow it, and Hamas would not stop the rockets. By stop the rockets I mean to arrest anyone funneling them in through the tunnels. Do regular inspections on the tunnels. Palestinians pay a fee to Hamas to operate tunnels. Use that fee to make sure weapons aren't being smuggled in. That's a start. Sure, some will get through, but at least Hamas could show a good faith effort to reduce the flow.

Likud needs the rockets to fly so that they can use it as a pretext to destroy the tunnels that are meant to avoid the blockaid.

I'm not placing all of the blame on Hamas, but it's damn nuts how they seem to get a pass on this because of Israel's excessive force.

[MFM008]

53. Israels kids and PTSD?

at least most of them are alive to have it.
If over 350 jewish babies instead of Palestinian had been blown up NATO would be bombing Gaza.
And some pass Hamas got, perhaps Israel will have better relations with ISIS.

[jberryhill]

82. who gave them a pass?

So by comparing Hamas to violent street gangs, as I did just now, is giving them a pass now is it?

Let's see... I come up with an analogy in which Hamas is the bad guy and Israel is the good guy, and I'm giving them a pass?

Why do people on this site complain about so-called police brutality? Is it because they like criminals?

[Uncle Joe]

28. Yes we have, I remember making this post and this should tell you a few things.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/IDF-source-Hamas-working-to-stop-rockets-from-Gaza-311977

There is “some degree of dialogue” between Israel and parties in Gaza to prevent rocket fire into southern Israel, Brig.-Gen. Micky Edelstein, commander of the army’s Gaza Division, said on Friday.

Speaking at an IDF event in Sderot, Edelstein said that Hamas was working to thwart rocket attacks from the Strip.

Related:

IAF strikes Gaza targets in response to rocket
IAF kills Gaza terrorist linked to Eilat rocket

“Today Hamas and other actors in Gaza are acting to stop the rocket fire. They don’t always succeed, and where they fail, the IDF acts,” the general said.

Earlier last week, the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper reported that Hamas had replaced policemen in the Gaza Strip border areas with fighters from its armed wing, Izzadin Kassam, in an effort to stop the rocket fire.

(snip)

A Salafi official told the newspaper that his group refused to comply with the cease-fire agreement and would continue firing rockets at Israel. The Hamas government arrested Salafi jihadists who claimed responsibility for rocket fire at Israel, the paper reported.

1. Hamas was cooperating per Brig.-Gen. Micky Edelstein, commander of the army’s Gaza Division.

2. The increase of 1500% in rocket fire from Hamas happened after Netanyahu aka Cheney/Bush attacked Gaza on a trumped up charge.

3. Hamas had plenty of rockets but hadn't use them until then.

On the positive side there are no reports of rocket fire since the ceasefire agreement has been reached

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608928

LIVE UPDATES: Operation Protective Edge, day 29
Three-day truce between Israel, Gaza holds; no missiles fired since 8 A.M. Tuesday.

Officials in Gaza say more than 1,800 Palestinians were killed during the operation, most of them civilians. Sixty-four IDF soldiers and three Israeli civilians have been killed since fighting began on July 8.

Having said all that, it's too bad for all those dead, mostly civilians that Netanyahu had to use an iron fist in pummeling the product of his own creation, instead of working to break the hate filled insanity of the endless of cycle; which plagues Israel/Palestine.

[joshcryer]

34. The rockets started flying first.

This "trumped up pretext" thing is pointless if you actually believe it. Hamas allowed hundreds of rockets to fly for a week straight until Israel started attacking.

[Uncle Joe]

35. On a thread by bigtree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025292409

Might be surprised- Turns Out Hamas Likely Didn’t Kidnap and Kill the 3 Israeli Teens After All

. . . the three Israeli teens whose killings gave Netanyahu pretext to attack and invade Gaza.

from Katie Zavadski at the New York Magazine:

When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. "Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region.

But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all.

BuzzFeed writer Sheera Frenkel was among the first to suggest that it was unlikely that Hamas was behind the deaths of Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frenkel, and Eyal Yifrach. Citing Palestinian sources and experts the field, Frenkel reported that kidnapping three Israeli teens would be a foolish move for Hamas. International experts told her it was likely the work of a local group, acting without concern for the repercussions:

Gershon Baskin pointed out that Hamas has earlier this month signed an agreement to form a unity government with Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, bridging, for the first time in seven years, the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank and Gaza.

“They will lose their reconciliation agreement with Abbas if they do take responsibility for the kidnappings,” Baskin added.



Today, she was proven right:

After Israel's top leadership exhaustively blamed Hamas for kidnap of 3 teens, they've now admitted killers were acting as "lone cell."

read more: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html?mid=twitter_nymag


from Dell Cameron (Daily Dot) on July 25, 2014

The recent explosion of violence in Gaza may have been initially sparked by false or inaccurate claims, according to Israeli police.

The ongoing conflict began last month when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped from a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank. Their bodies were later discovered in a field outside the city of Hebron. Before police were able to determine who was responsible, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu placed blame for the tragic deaths squarely on Hamas, Gaza’s elected political leadership—an accusation that may prove to be false.

On Friday, Chief Inspector Micky Rosenfeld, foreign press spokesman for the Israel Police, reportedly told BBC journalist Jon Donnisonhe that the men responsible for murders were not acting on orders of Hamas leadership. Instead, he said, they are part of a “lone cell.” Further, Inspector Rosenfeld told Donnison that if Hamas’ leadership had ordered the kidnapping, “they'd have known about it in advance.”

If the reported findings of the Israeli Police hold up and Hamas is officially cleared of any wrongdoing in the case of the three kidnapped Israeli teens, Netanyahu and the Israeli government may have to explain why a massive military operation, with an 80 percent rate of civilian casualties, was instigated under a false premise. And if violence in the West Bank continues to spread, the IDF may find itself divided on two fronts.

read: http://www.dailydot.com/politics/israel-gaza-kidnap-false-inaccurate/

related:

Sheera Frenkel ?@sheeraf 15h
My story @Buzzfeed 1month ago, in which Israeli officers say Hamas not behind the kidnap/killing of 3 Israeli teens: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/who-was-behind-the-kidnapping-of-three-israeli-teens-and-why …


*update*: Jon Donnison ?@JonDonnison. the BBC reporter who is the source for the story (Donnison claims Chief Inspector Micky Rosenfeld gave him the info) has at least one controversy associated with his reporting. A watchdog site called BBC Watch says Donnison tweeted a photo he said was in Gaza which turned out to be from Syria. Not exactly a scandal, but some might make something out of it to discredit this report - so, full disclosure and all that.

here's his apology for the mistake:



. . . seems straightforward to me and not something that should necessarily speak to his credibility, but hey, folks will talk. Anyway . . .
160

[joshcryer]

36. Yes, irrelevant.

Absolutely irrelevant that Hamas was blamed (though the guy who they arrested admitted Hamas was a funding source and that the group that did it went rogue, so that's just another part of the story).

The rockets started flying first. The kidnapping didn't make Hamas start shooting rockets. The killing of the Palestinian boy didn't make Hamas start shooting rockets.

It's a broken record, I swear. Hamas gets to shirk all responsibility while being called upon to be recognized.

[Uncle Joe]

38. Netanyahu's mass retribution turning a tragic crime into an act of war is what escalated both

rocket fire and other forms of violence.

Of the 3055 rockets fired at Israel in 2014, 2936 came in June and especially July as Netanyahu went off the deep end with his mass draconian reprisals.

The lowest number was May just before Fatah and Hamas signed their unity agreement on June 2nd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

This is a partial table that summarises the content of the article below.
Month Missiles launched Effect of missiles Retaliation by Israel
Rockets Mortars Killed Injured Killed Injured
January 22 4
February 9
March 65 1 1 1
April 19 5
May 4 3
June 62 3 6
July 2,874 15 6 34 1,122 7,800
Total 3,055 31 6 41 1,123 7,800

May was the lowest month of 2014 for rocket fire, Fatah and Hamas signed their unity agreement June 2nd they were scheduled to have elections and this incensed Netanyahu, he was looking for an excuse for war. He didn't want the Palestinians united in peace with the threat of them becoming a democracy.

Ten days later, the three teenagers were kidnapped and killed in the West Bank town of Hebron, Netanyahu continuously escalated the violence with his mass retribution actions, he used this incident as a pretext for war.

Either Netanyahu totally lost his mind with his unbalanced reprisal actions or this was just a cynical premeditated ploy of his to turn a criminal tragedy into an act of war which would kill approximately just shy of 2000 people on both sides.

Just read the Wikipedia entry on the sequence of events, josh, there is much more on the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

On 12 June 2014, three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped in Gush Etzion, in the West Bank, as they were hitchhiking to their homes.[2] The three teens were Naftali Fraenkel (16, from Nof Ayalon), Gilad Shaer (16, from Talmon), and Eyal Yifrah (19, from Elad).[3][4] Gilad Shaer called a police emergency hotline to report the kidnapping.[5] The emergency call recording, initially under a gag order, was leaked to the public.[5] After Gilad Shaer's whispered message "They kidnapped me", the taped call also recorded shouting in Arabic from the kidnappers and several volleys of automatic gunfire.[5][6]
IDF's Nahal Brigade conducting a search in the Hebron area

The Israel Defense Forces initiated Operation Brother's Keeper in search of the three teenagers.[7] As part of the operation, in the following 11 days Israel arrested around 350 Palestinians,[8][9][10] including nearly all of Hamas' West Bank leaders.[11] Five Palestinians were killed during the military operation.[12][13][14][15]

On 15 June, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that the teens had been kidnapped by Hamas,[2][16] which Hamas denied.[2] Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas maintained that as of 22 June there was no evidence that Hamas was behind the kidnapping.[17]

On 25 July, BBC correspondent Jon Donnison tweeted that Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld admitted that the kidnappings did not occur on the orders of, or with the knowledge of the Hamas leadership, and that the crime was the action of a "lone cell".[18][19][20] Sheera Frenkel had reported similar views from Israel and Palestinian sources some ten days earlier.[21][22] Mickey Rosenfeld later denied having used the words "lone cell".[22]

On 26 June, the Israel Security Agency released the identities of two Hamas suspects in the kidnapping.[23] Both ISA and Palestinian authorities said that the two men have been missing since the night of the kidnapping, and the ISA stated that both had engaged in terrorism, been arrested, and served time in the past, and were considered suspects immediately after the kidnapping. A senior Palestinian intelligence official said off the record that their disappearance constituted clear evidence the two suspects have links with the abduction.[24]

On 30 June, search teams found the bodies of the three missing teenagers in a field north-west of Hebron.[25][26] They had apparently been killed shortly after their abduction.[27] Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed a tough response to the killings.[28]

Opinions were divided among Israel's security services as to whether or not the two had direct ties to Hamas.[29] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated that Hamas killed the teenagers.[28] On 26 June, the Israel Security Agency identified two Hamas members as key suspects in the kidnapping, whom Palestinian police noted, had gone missing since the night of the kidnapping.[23][30][31] High-ranking members of Hamas denied that the group had any involvement or foreknowledge of the incident.[10] The two named suspects hail from the Qawasameh clan which is notorious for consistently acting against Hamas's policies and its attempts to reach an entente with Israel.[32] Hamas political chief Khaled Meshal said that he could neither confirm nor deny the kidnapping of the three Israelis, and he congratulated the abductors, because 'our prisoners must be freed from the prisons of the occupation.'[33]

(snip)

Day 8

20 June. Throughout the week, the arrest of Hamas leaders went quietly as they acceded to their detention, but by Friday sporadic popular resistance began to emerge.[94] Three Palestinians were wounded in a raid on Qalandiya refugee camp, near Jerusalem, while another five[95] were wounded in clashes at the Dheisheh refugee camp by Bethlehem, whose Ibdaa cultural center was wrecked, cheques and money from its safe, together with five computers, confiscated.[96] Four of the victims were reportedly run over by an Israeli jeep.[95][97] During a clash near the Qalandiya checkpoint in Ramallah, in which handmade grenades were hurled at Israeli soldiers who felt their lives were threatened and returned live fire at Palestinian crowds that confronted them, Mustafa Hosni Aslan (22) received a gunshot wound to his head, and was pronounced clinically dead. He died on 25 June.[98][99][100] Live fire was used according to the IDF in response to Molotov cocktails, pipe bombs, one makeshift grenade, firecrackers, and stones being thrown at soldiers at the camps.[101] In Dura's Haninia neighbourhood, after a night-long raid, involving many clashes with local youths, to detain a person Israelis consider to be a terrorist, as troops were withdrawing, eyewitness testimonies reported that a retreating Israeli soldier fired 6 shots and killed[102] 15-year-old Mohammed Dudeen.[94][102][103][104] Twenty-five more Palestinians were arrested at Dura and Dheisheh, bringing the number of detainees to 320, of which 240 are considered Hamas operatives. The number of sites searched mounted to 1,150,[101] of which 1,000 buildings were damaged,[44] the figure including over 750 homes.[102] According to Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki Israel had destroyed 150 homes by week's end.[105] In another dawn raid on the Dean's Office and Student Union of the Arab American University in Jenin papers were seized, and Amir Saadi, 17, was shot in the shoulder. The villages of Arraba,[106] Al-Louz, and Artas were also raided.[95]

Riyad al-Malki demanded Israel produce evidence that Hamas is culpable, stating that Netanyahu cannot 'keep blaming one side without showing evidence'. He said Israel's massive military sweeps were unacceptable, with 300 Palestinians taken in exchange for three Israeli kids,[94] but the Palestinian authority would act to prevent an uprising, for 'if the situation continues as it is, this will end up (with) the destruction of what we have built in Palestine'.[82][105]

On Friday night, Israeli security spokesmen said the 'noose was tightening', as troops were concentrated near Hebron, with intelligence officials confident that attempts to move the youths to either Jordan, Gaza, or the Sinai had failed.[107] A spokesman for the Prime Minister, Amos Gilead, stated that Netanyahu's view that Hamas was responsible was "built on the base of firm intelligence".[108] IDF forces ransacked Bethlehem's biggest Islamic charity, devoted to orphan's care, in the Jabal al-Mawalih neighborhood and took away computers and files.[109]

(snip)

[kiranon]

12. Agree. n/t

[killbotfactory]

14. They were elected, weren't they?

Yes they engage in terrorism. They also manage the affairs of Gaza. Ignoring them is stupid.

Ironically, the first Israeli prime minister, who also founded Likud, was a member of Irgun which engaged in terrorism before the foundation of Israel.

[joshcryer]

16. 8 years ago.

They haven't had elections since.

[killbotfactory]

18. Regardless, they hold power. What good does ignoring them do? nt

[joshcryer]

23. The mafia held power at one point.

[killbotfactory]

26. And... ? Lots of governments around the world act like a mafia. nt

[joshcryer]

31. Hard to call a mafia a government.

[jberryhill]

33. Yeah, and the US negotiated with them

When we invaded Italy, we had some acquaintances there.

Most governments around the world consist of the ruling gang, in case you hadn't noticed.

[Uncle Joe]

30. They were about to hold elections after the unity government agreement between Fatah/Hamas and

Netanyahu knew that.

[joshcryer]

40. Netanyahu doesn't have mind control to make Hamas fire rockets.

[Uncle Joe]

42. Being blockaded in a dense open air prison, Ghetto with a 70% poverty rate creates a powder keg

of hate and resentment.

It doesn't take "mind control" to trigger the use of rockets in such an environment, just more oppression or mass retribution to set off a chain of violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

Gaza has an annual population growth rate of 2.91% (2014 est.), the 13th highest in the world, and is overcrowded.[4][5] There is a limited capability to construct new homes and facilities for this growth. The territory is 41 kilometers (25 mi) long, and from 6 to 12 kilometers (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, with a total area of 365 square kilometers (141 sq mi).[6] As of 2014, Palestinians of the Gaza Strip numbered around 1.82 million people.[5] The large Palestinian refugee population makes it among the most densely populated parts of the world.[7] Sunni Muslims make up the predominant part of the Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip.

(snip)

Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it views Israel as a de facto occupying power in the Gaza Strip, even though Israel has no military or other presence, because the Oslo Accord authorizes Israel to control the airspace and the territorial sea.[24][25][127] Other NGOs and other pro-Israel entities have been reported to contest that specific view.[125][128][129]

The economy of the Gaza Strip is severely hampered by Egypt and Israel's almost total blockade, the high population density, limited land access, strict internal and external security controls, the effects of Israeli military operations, and restrictions on labor and trade access across the border. Per capita income (PPP) was estimated at US$3,100 in 2009, a position of 164th in the world.[132] Seventy percent of the population is below the poverty line according to a 2009 estimate.[132] Gaza Strip industries are generally small family businesses that produce textiles, soap, olive-wood carvings, and mother-of-pearl souvenirs; the Israelis have established some small-scale modern industries in an industrial center. Israel supplies the Gaza Strip with electricity.

[joshcryer]

44. Hamas wasn't "triggered" to allow rocket stockpiling.

And monument building.

[Uncle Joe]

46. Why not? Their members were being rounded up in mass numbers for the actions of two.

Innocent Palestinians were being damaged as well, not to mention there are several other extremist groups happy to take advantage of the increased overall misery with violence of their own.

People killed, homes destroyed on a mass scale and you believe that would cause no repercussions, no screams for or acts of vengeance?

[joshcryer]

47. So, they stockpiled rockets for this occasion?

Rockets which have absolutely no positive outcome?

And again you're mixing up cause and effect.

[Uncle Joe]

48. If all you have are rocks that's what you stock up on, they have no air force, no navy, no tanks,

no artillery of any size other than mortars, most of them if not all don't even have uniforms.

Israel has one of the most advanced and powerful armed forces in the world and definitely for that region, not to mention nukes.

Israel has the power, the Palestinians have been oppressed for decades, most of them especially in Gaza live in abject poverty.

I know cause and effect and I know Netanyahu being in the most powerful position had the greatest leeway to alter the outcome, had he let his police force do their work instead of going off half cocked and militarizing everything, the effect would've been much more favorable for all parties.

[joshcryer]

50. I don't see how rockets help the situation.

At all. They have no defensive ability. They're solely antagonistic.

[eridani]

51. It's a matter of pride. If you can't stop a well-armed imperial power from destroying your

--infrastructure and deliberately murdering your civilian population, some will predictably not be able to stand the helplessness and will hit back even if it's useless and counterproductive.

[leftynyc]

55. Look what their pride has gotten them

Over 1000 dead and many more injured. Do you think it was worth it?

[eridani]

56. Israel will proceed with mass murder regardless of what they do.

Israel started the latest round of ethnic cleansing in response to a proposed Palestinian unity government which would have recognized Israel. That is intolerable to the IDF because it shoots down their rationale for ethnic cleansing.

Hamas, Abbas' PLO announce reconciliation agreement 4/23/2014
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Hamas-Abbass-PLO-announce-reconciliation-agreement-350195#!

Hamas and Fatah announced Wednesday that they have reached a “historic” agreement to end their differences and form a Palestinian unity government.

The announcement came one day after a senior PLO delegation arrived in the Gaza Strip for talks with Hamas leaders on ways of ending the Hamas-Fatah dispute and achieving national reconciliation...

The latest agreement, which was signed at the home of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh in the Shati refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, states that the two sides would work toward implementing previous accords reached in Qatar and Egypt.

It calls for the establishment of a Palestinian unity government within five weeks. Six months later, the Palestinians would hold long overdue presidential and parliamentary elections.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html

Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world.

Yet, in many ways, the reconciliation government could have served Israel’s interests. It offered Hamas’s political adversaries a foothold in Gaza; it was formed without a single Hamas member; it retained the same Ramallah-based prime minister, deputy prime ministers, finance minister and foreign minister; and, most important, it pledged to comply with the three conditions for Western aid long demanded by America and its European allies: nonviolence, adherence to past agreements and recognition of Israel.

[leftynyc]

64. I stopped reading

right after your ethnic cleansing nonsense so I'm sure I'd consider the rest nothing but drivel. You may want to read the charter of hamas before you start in on Israeli's committing ethnic cleansing and mass murder.

[eridani]

65. Hamas just joined a unity government that goes against its charter

That made Israel unhappy.

[leftynyc]

66. It was the rockets

raining down that made Israel unhappy. But since you're one of those who think they're nothing but firecrackers, I'm sure you'll discount it. Let me know when hamas gets rid of their charter - then I'll be impressed.

[eridani]

67. Hamas joined a unity government that recognizes Israel, period

The rockets have had one casualty. So given the chose between being underneath a random barrage vs bein in a Gaza school, I'll take the former. My chances of surviving and 2000 times greater.

[leftynyc]

68. How lovely (and pointed)

of you to think the Israeli's should just stand around and let hamas set off their rockets without consequence. By the way, have you seen this:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/indian-tv-gets-footage-of-militants-preparing-to-fire-rocket-from-civilian-area/

There have been some disturbing videos emerging in the current Gaza conflict, but Indian TV network NDTV captured unbelievable footage of Islamic militants preparing to launch a rocket at Israel in a densely-populated civilian area.

The NDTV reporter spotted a blue tent being set up, with three people walking in and out of it. The next day, there was a rocket fired from that exact spot where he had spotted the tent. It’s important to note that this was being worked on in a “residential area full of hotels.”

The rocket was fired shortly prior to the 72-hour ceasefire and is being billed by NDTV as an exclusive look into “how Hamas assembles and fires rockets.”


Tell me again how they don't use civilians as shields.

[eridani]

69. The consequences of the rockets have been one casualty, period

From a military standpoint, they are the equivalent of kids kicking the back of a car's driver's seat. Or maybe a BB gun. You can put someone's eye out with those things, but that doesn't justify beating a kid to death.

[Uncle Joe]

52. They're nothing but a symbol of defiance, but that's all they have.

The Palestinians in Gaza don't have anti-aircraft weapons, nor an Iron Dome, not to mention the weapons I just posted above.

They've been living in misery for decades, their land was taken, they're either refugees or children of refugees living in dense squalor with rampant poverty in an open air prison, ghetto.

What kind of mentality or attitudes do you believe that fosters?

How do you believe we would react if our neighbors had us trapped and blockaded by land, sea and air in a much smaller, denser U.S. and over 210 million Americans were "living" below he poverty line?

Would we try to fight back with whatever weapons we could get whether effective or not, would we build tunnels to get food, supplies, weapons and munitions, to carry the fight to the enemy or even perhaps escape?

[joshcryer]

57. That's like saying Cliven Bundy and his AK47s are a symbol.

No, they're lethal weapons and while inaccurate they have killed before.

If they invested in defensive weapons they could in fact shoot down Israel's planes or rockets.

I believe Hamas is exploiting the situation and Hamas' actions only benefit Likud. Why is Likud getting votes? Why do Israeli's sit in lawn chairs and celebrate bombings on Gaza? Hate begets hate.

[Uncle Joe]

83. Yea, because 1.8 million impoverished people trapped in an open air prison ghetto is like a man that

Last edited Wed Aug 6, 2014, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

believes Obama is a Kenyan Muslim and that he shouldn't have to pay for permits to graze his cattle on federal lands.

I also noticed, you never did answer my questions.

They've been living in misery for decades, their land was taken, they're either refugees or children of refugees living in dense squalor with rampant poverty in an open air prison, ghetto.

What kind of mentality or attitudes do you believe that fosters?

How do you believe we would react if our neighbors had us trapped and blockaded by land, sea and air in a much smaller, denser U.S. and over 210 million Americans were "living" below the poverty line?

Would we try to fight back with whatever weapons we could get whether effective or not, would we build tunnels to get food, supplies, weapons and munitions, to carry the fight to the enemy or even perhaps escape?

[morningfog]

29. Palestine has a right to defend itself. If not Hamas, some form of Palestinian military

must be recognized and permitted to acquire the means to weaponize.

[joshcryer]

41. The rockets have zero defensive purpose.

[Fred Sanders]

73. But long range artillery into an urban area, armed drones, bombs dropped...all defensive.?.....

[adirondacker]

19. Interesting. Quite the contrast to Clinton's recent thoughts on the matter. nt

[hughee99]

22. Carter isn't thinking about running for office again. n/t

[kelliekat44]

20. He's right. And had we "recognized" Saddam there would have been no need for invading...BUT

that's not what the neo-cons wanted. They wanted war, they wanted regime change. They want even more in Gaza...they want extinction.

[slipslidingaway]

21. knr n/t

[Peace Patriot]

49. I'll take Jimmy Carter's word for it. He knows more than anybody in the world...

...about the dynamics of the Israel/Palestine situation, and has worked harder than anybody to create a true "honest broker" policy for the U.S.

And Mary Robinson knows more than anybody HOW TO STOP A VIOLENT CIVIL WAR with hatreds that go back 400 years. At some point in the lopsided fight between the Irish and the English, the English HAD TO recognize Irish fighters as HUMAN BEINGS with a right to defend themselves and a right to a point of view on their own governance--no matter how warped and murderous their behavior had become after 400 years of lopsided hostilities.

These two people are SANE--Carter and Robinson. Other players in this situation seem insane to me. The Palestinians who are firing rockets at Israel are insane from grief, stark poverty and confinement in an outdoor prison, with a long history of seeing their peoples' lands stolen, jobs and businesses destroyed and gross violations of their human rights, including the current Israeli blockade of Gaza. The Israeli government is insane with fascism and militarism. Our government is insane for continuing to arm and fund Israel in the midst of grave war crimes, including the slaughter of 300 children and the bombing of UN hospitals and schools. Our government's insanity is the result of war profiteering. And "pro-Israel" commenters on this situation have their heads up their asses. They insanely side with Israel no matter what Israel does!

Another parallel to Israel/Palestine is the Colombian government/leftist guerrilla (FARC) lopsided civil war--a civil war that has gone on for some 70 years and was recently made more lopsided by the infusion of SEVEN BILLION U.S. taxpayer dollars in military support of Colombian fascists. They are now talking--the Colombian government and the FARC--and making progress on peace, following the removal of Bush Jr.'s mafia don buddy, Alvaro Uribe, as 'president' of Colombia. The new leader of Colombia, Manuel Santos, had to RECOGNIZE the FARC, at least as far as peace talks go, and they are discussing a POLITICAL solution, involving the FARC laying down their arms and entering the political process in Colombia. This was tried once before (prior to Uribe, who lusted for war), but rightwing death squads slaughtered thousands of demobilized FARC members, who then took up arms again. You HAVE TO recognize the opposition as HUMAN BEINGS who have REASONS for taking up arms and have THE RIGHT to participate in talks and to participate in self-government, if you want to stop a civil war--and not just continue with endless, escalating violence, with decades and centuries of accumulated hurt and hate.

This is what Jimmy Carter and Mary Robinson are saying--and they know what they are talking about!

Hamas was ELECTED--and both Israel and the U.S. said, "We don't care about your election! We say you're terrorists and worthy of death, along with everyone else in this 'shooting gallery' that we have created in Gaza--children, the elderly, women--all will die because you are not human and your election means nothing!"

Carter and Robinson are absolutely correct that Hamas must be recognized, to end this horror.

Thank you, Fred Sanders, for posting this important article!

[FarPoint]

58. Let's face it...

Bombing the crap out of one another has no promise of peace. Let President Carter lead the negotiations.

[badtoworse]

60. Carter is wrong and only a moron would do what he suggests.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Isreal and puts no value on human life (including that of its own people). They can't be reasoned with or trusted.

[Douglas Carpenter]

62. here is a list of morons who have been advocating exactly that for years

Collin Powell and several other prominent mainstream leaders support dialogue with Hamas
and signed a letter which includes a paragraph very clearly stating so - along with calling for real talks which covers substantial real issues.

Some of the signatories frankly surprised me:

"As to Hamas, we believe that a genuine dialogue with the organization is far preferable to its isolation; it could be conducted, for example, by the UN and Quartet Middle East envoys. Promoting a cease-fire between Israel and Gaza would be a good starting point."

Partial list of Signatories:


Zbigniew Brzezinski -Former National Security Adviser to President Jimmy Carter

Lee H. Hamilton - Former Congressman (D-IN) and Co-chair of the Iraq Study Group

Carla Hills - Former U.S. Trade Representative under President George H.W. Bush

Nancy Kassebaum-Baker - Former Senator (R-KS)

Thomas R. Pickering - Former Under Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton

Brent Scowcroft - Former National Security Adviser to President Gerald Ford and President George H.W. Bush

Theodore C. Sorensen - Former Special Counsel and Adviser to President John F. Kennedy

Paul Volcker - Former Chairman of the Board of Governors of the U.S. Federal Reserve System

Jodie Allen - Senior Editor, Pew Research Center; Former Editor of the Outlook Section, Washington Post

Harriet Babbitt - Former U.S. Ambassador to the Organization of American States; Former Director of the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs

Birch Bayh - Former U.S. Senator (D-IN)

Shlomo Ben-Ami - Former Foreign Minister of Israel

Lincoln Chafee - Distinguished Visiting Fellow at Brown University’s Watson Institute for International Studies; Former U.S. Senator (R-RI)

Harvey Cox - Hollis Professor of Divinity, Harvard Divinity School

Michael Cox - Professor, London School of Economics and Director of the Cold War Studies Centre

James Dobbins - Former Assistant Secretary of State

Joseph Duffey - Director, U.S. Information Agency, 1993-1999; Assistant Secretary of State for Education and Culture, 1977

Peter Edelman - Professor of Law and Co-Director of the Joint Degree in Law and Public Policy; Former Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation

Gareth Evans - President & CEO of International Crisis Group; Former Foreign Minister of Australia

Leon Fuerth -Former National Security Advisor to Vice President Al Gore

Gary Hart -Wirth Chair at the University of Colorado; Chair of the Council for a Livable World and the American Security Project; Former U.S. Senator (D-CO)

Robert E. Hunter - Senior Advisor, RAND Corporation; Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO

Robert Hutchings - Diplomat in Residence, Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton University; Former Chairman of the National Intelligence Council

Daniel Levy - Director, Middle East Policy Initiative, New America Foundation; Senior Fellow, Century Foundation; Lead Israeli Drafter, Geneva Initiative; Member of Israeli Delegation, Taba Negotiations

Anatol Lieven - Professor of War Studies, Kings College London; Senior Research Fellow, New America Foundation

John McLaughlin -Former Deputy Director, Central Intelligence Agency

Everett Mendelsohn -Professor Emeritus of the History of Science, Harvard University

Diana Villiers Negroponte - Foreign Policy Studies, Brookings Institution

William E. Odom - Lieutenant General, U.S. Army (Ret.); Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute; Professor of Political Science, Yale University; Former Director of the National Security Agency, 1985-1988

Christopher Patten - Co-Chair of International Crisis Group; Chancellor of the University of Oxford; Former EU Commissioner for Foreign Relations; Former Commander in Chief and British Governor of Hong Kong

Edward L. Peck - Former U.S. Chief of Mission to Iraq; Former Ambassador to Mauritania

Larry Pressler - Former U.S. Senator (R-SD) & Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; Member, Council on Foreign Relations

Theodore Roosevelt IV - Managing Director, Lehman Brothers

J. J. Sheehan - General, U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.)

Eric Shinseki - General, US Army (Ret.)

Former Chief of Staff, U.S. Army

Stephen J. Solarz - Former U.S. Congressman (D-NY)

Robert and Renee Belfer - Professor in International AffairsJohn F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University

Phil Wilcox - President, Foundation for Middle East Peace; Former U.S. Ambassador at Large; Former Special Assistant to the Undersecretary for Management at the U.S. Department of State; Former Director for Regional Affairs, Bureau for Middle Eastern and South Asian Affairs, U.S. Department of State

Lawrence B. Wilkerson - Colonel, U.S. Army (Ret.); Pamela C. Harriman Visiting Professor of Government, College of William Mary; Professorial Lecturer, George Washington University; Former Chief of Staff, U.S. Department of State; Former Director, U.S. Marine Corps War College

Joseph Wilson - Ambassador in President George H. W. Bush’s Administration; Special Assistant to President Clinton; Senior Director for African Affairs, National Security Council

Timothy Wirth - President, U.N. Foundation; Former U.S. Senator (D-CO)

Frank Wisner - Former U.S. Ambassador to Zambia, Egypt, the Philippines and India; Former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy; Former Under Secretary of State for International Security Affairs; Vice Chairman of External Affairs at American International Group

link to signatories:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2007/nov/08/failure-risks-devastating-consequences/

[badtoworse]

71. See Post 70. Powell talked about a dialogue with Hamas, not recognition ot its legitimacy.

[kelliekat44]

63. Destruction of "Israel" not the destruction of Jews. It's really about land and resources.

Hamas started out as the legitimate political arm for the Palestinians who have been subjected to an apartheid situation for over 40 years. Not recognizing them was the first step Israel took to ensure that they would become what Israel and the US call "terrorist organization." They became that as a result of our actions just as the Muslim Brotherhood that was duly elected in Egypt. When people we don't like begin to play by our (Israel/US) rules and begin to win...we will always change the rules.

[badtoworse]

70. Hamas has never recognized Israel's right to exist and has always been committed to its destruction.

By definition, that made them and still makes them Israel's enemy. The fact that, to date, they haven't been very effective at it doesn't change anything and Israel would be foolish to allow them to get stronger. Their tactics, practiced from the beginning, have earned them the title of terrorist organization. I haven't seen any evidence that they're willing to change those things, and given that, I fail to see where they deserve any legitimacy at all.

In my book, only a moron would put faith in an agreement with a party that remains committed to your destruction. Before I would recognize Hamas and negotiate with them, I'd need to hear them say something like "We recognize Israel as a legitimate state and we're willing to peacefully coexist with you". That is not a concession, it's a fundamental requirement for a meaningful discussion of issues to even start. If Hamas is not willing to do that, Israel (and the US) would be stupid to give them any legitimacy and beyond that, Hamas should not be surprised when the other side becomes committed to their destruction. Sorry, but the ball is in their court.

As far as the Muslim Brotherhood and similar organizations go, I can't disagree with you more strongly. They did not spring up because of our actions. These groups are religious fundamentalists committed to replacing Western values with Sharia Law and had they remained in power in Egypt, it would have become another Iran within a year or two. Sorry, but I don't want to live in an Islamic Fundamentalist state and I don't believe people in other countries should be forced to either. You might find it hard to accept, but fundamentalists aren't very tolerant of views other than their own and will likely kill you if you don't live by their standards. Confering any legitimacy on them would be a huge mistake.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. OBVIOUSLY!! To quote a former Israeli Foreign Minister:

"SHLOMO BEN-AMI: Yes, Hamas. I think that in my view there is almost sort of poetic justice with this victory of Hamas. After all, what is the reason for this nostalgia for Arafat and for the P.L.O.? Did they run the affairs of the Palestinians in a clean way? You mentioned the corruption, the inefficiency. Of course, Israel has contributed a lot to the disintegration of the Palestinian system, no doubt about it, but their leaders failed them. Their leaders betrayed them, and the victory of Hamas is justice being made in many ways. So we cannot preach democracy and then say that those who won are not accepted by us. Either there is democracy or there is no democracy.

And with these people, I think they are much more pragmatic than is normally perceived. In the 1990s, they invented the concept of a temporary settlement with Israel. 1990s was the first time that Hamas spoke about a temporary settlement with Israel. In 2003, they declared unilaterally a truce, and the reason they declared the truce is this, that with Arafat, whose the system of government was one of divide and rule, they were discarded from the political system. Mahmoud Abbas has integrated them into the political system, and this is what brought them to the truce. They are interested in politicizing themselves, in becoming a politic entity. And we need to try and see ways where we can work with them.

Now, everybody says they need first to recognize the state of Israel and end terrorism. Believe me, I would like them to do so today, but they are not going to do that. They are eventually going to do that in the future, but only as part of a quid pro quo, just as the P.L.O. did it. The P.L.O., when Rabin came to negotiate with them, also didn't recognize the state of Israel, and they engaged in all kind of nasty practices. And therefore, we need to be much more realistic and abandon worn-out cliches and see whether we can reach something with these people. I believe that a long-term interim agreement between Israel and Hamas, even if it is not directly negotiated between the parties, but through a third party, is feasible and possible."

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_shlomo_ben
__________

Hamas's official offer of a long term truce with Israel from Ahmed Yousef:



Hamas's official offer of a long term truce with Israel from Ahmed Yousef:

By AHMED YOUSEF
Originally Published: November 1, 2006 in the New York Times

"Ahmed Yousef is a senior adviser to the Palestinian prime minister, Ismail Haniya."

"HERE in Gaza, few dream of peace. For now, most dare only to dream of a lack of war. It is for this reason that Hamas proposes a long-term truce during which the Israeli and Palestinian peoples can try to negotiate a lasting peace.
A truce is referred to in Arabic as a ''hudna.'' Typically covering 10 years, a hudna is recognized in Islamic jurisprudence as a legitimate and binding contract. A hudna extends beyond the Western concept of a cease-fire and obliges the parties to use the period to seek a permanent, nonviolent resolution to their differences. The Koran finds great merit in such efforts at promoting understanding among different people. Whereas war dehumanizes the enemy and makes it easier to kill, a hudna affords the opportunity to humanize one's opponents and understand their position with the goal of resolving the intertribal or international dispute.

Such a concept -- a period of nonwar but only partial resolution of a conflict -- is foreign to the West and has been greeted with much suspicion. Many Westerners I speak to wonder how one can stop the violence without ending the conflict.

I would argue, however, that this concept is not as foreign as it might seem. After all, the Irish Republican Army agreed to halt its military struggle to free Northern Ireland from British rule without recognizing British sovereignty. Irish Republicans continue to aspire to a united Ireland free of British rule, but rely upon peaceful methods. Had the I.R.A. been forced to renounce its vision of reuniting Ireland before negotiations could occur, peace would never have prevailed. Why should more be demanded of the Palestinians, particularly when the spirit of our people will never permit it?
When Hamas gives its word to an international agreement, it does so in the name of God and will therefore keep its word. Hamas has honored its previous cease-fires, as Israelis grudgingly note with the oft-heard words, ''At least with Hamas they mean what they say.''

This offer of hudna is no ruse, as some assert, to strengthen our military machine, to buy time to organize better or to consolidate our hold on the Palestinian Authority. Indeed, faith-based political movements in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Turkey and Yemen have used hudna-like strategies to avoid expanding conflict. Hamas will conduct itself just as wisely and honorably.

We Palestinians are prepared to enter into a hudna to bring about an immediate end to the occupation and to initiate a period of peaceful coexistence during which both sides would refrain from any form of military aggression or provocation. During this period of calm and negotiation we can address the important issues like the right of return and the release of prisoners. If the negotiations fail to achieve a durable settlement, the next generation of Palestinians and Israelis will have to decide whether or not to renew the hudna and the search for a negotiated peace.

There can be no comprehensive solution of the conflict today, this week, this month, or even this year. A conflict that has festered for so long may, however, be resolved through a decade of peaceful coexistence and negotiations. This is the only sensible alternative to the current situation. A hudna will lead to an end to the occupation and create the space and the calm necessary to resolve all outstanding issues.

Few in Gaza dream. For most of the past six months it's been difficult to even sleep. Yet hope is not dead. And when we dare to hope, this is what we see: a 10-year hudna during which, inshallah (God willing), we will learn again to dream of peace.

Ahmed Yousef is a senior adviser to the Palestinian prime minister, Ismail Haniya. "

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

76. I suppose that could help.

Right now the IDF is acting like the ugly American who goes overseas and says 'They all look alike!' and just killing anyone who doesn't move fast enough before their homes are leveled.

(Edit: Oh, *that* kind of 'recognize'.)

[emsimon33]

80. K&R

[G_j]

81. K&R!