About the motives for torture--

[Jackpine Radical]

A recent Swedish study has a lot to say about that. (Read "torture" for "punish".)

The paper can be downloaded here, although you'll have to register (free):

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2469806

‘Altruistic’ and ‘antisocial’ punishers are one and the same
Kimmo Eriksson1,2, Daniel Cownden1, Micael Ehn1, Pontus Strimling1
1Centre for the Study of Cultural Evolution, Stockholm University, Sweden
2School of Education, Culture and Communication, Mälardalen University, Västerås, Sweden


Abstract

In certain economic experiments, some participants willingly pay a cost to punish peers who contribute too little to the public good. Because such punishment can lead to improved group outcomes, this costly punishment has been conceived of as altruistic. Here we provide evidence that individual variation in the propensity to punish low contributions is unrelated to altruism. First, individual use of punishment was uncorrelated with contribution to the public good, contrary to the hypothesis that punishers are proximally motivated by prosocial preferences. Second, individual use of punishment was positively correlated across situations where the use of punishment is typically group beneficial and situations where the use of punishment is typically group detrimental, as well as across situations of radically different strategic structures. These findings contrast sharply with the premise that the tendency to use punishment can fruitfully be regarded as an adaptation for solving social dilemmas.

[CJCRANE]

1. I disagree. Torture is a form of terror.

I think that goes beyond punishment.

We have fairly accepted standards of "punishment" in modern society that have nothing to do with torture.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Obviously you're right on the distinction, but I'm talking about the implications of the study--

Namely, that some people have a predisposition to inflict noxious stimuli (to use an old psychological term) on others, and often do so under the pretext of the greater social good, but what they're really into is inflicting the misery, not serving the social good.

I do indeed think this study is relevant to the rationalization-of-torture issue.

[CJCRANE]

3. I must admit I haven't read the report in full

but as a rule I think punishment is something that we do after guilt is determined and is also limited.

For example a punishment for a crime could be 100 lashes.

That might sound bad, but consider that if it was torture it would be something like "keep whipping the suspect until he confesses".

[Jackpine Radical]

4. I'm talking about the psychology of "punishers,"

not about the socioethical implications of torture versus punishment.

As a matter of fact, the specific example you cite above echoes the distinction made in behavioral psychology between punishment (application of an aversive stimulus after a transgression) and negative reinforcement (termination of a n aversive stimulus when the desired behavior is emitted). My thesis is that psychologically, there is not much difference between those who are prone to resort to the former and those who are prone to resort to the latter. They are pretty much the same people, and the commonality is the desire to inflict misery on another.

[DonCoquixote]

5. "beware all those in whom the urge to punish is strong."

Last edited Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:10 AM - Edit history (1)

http://livebyquotes.com/2012/beware-of-all-those-in-whom-the-urge-to-punish-is-strong-friedrich-nietzsche/

[TheKentuckian]

6. and lock those inclined to inflict punishment before finding guilt the hell away

as they are a cancer on society almost without equal.