My X wife's grandfather was tortured by the NAZIs

[Ichingcarpenter]

The mother of my children

He was put in a Nazi concentration camp because he was a communist leader in the Danish party.
He was tortured for three days by the SS until he died. They got no useful information from him.

His son, her father, later blew up trains tracks and organized armed resistance against the NAZI occupation, he was considered a recognized hero to the Danish people

Would his son have done the things he did if his father wasn't arrested and tortured?

Did the NAZIs create terrorists? Because they called him a terrorist and would have been shot, hung and tortured first if caught by the so called legal occupied government.

My father, a pilot during WW2 lost three friends in Japanese torture camps...who got shot down over japan.

Most of the guys we tortured in this so called
war of/on Terror were innocent.

I now look at this post 911 war as a war of terror......
be afraid.

[bigtree]

1. thanks for sharing that

. . . we need to remember (not as if it needed a qualification to denounce it) that the tortures in question under Bush (and reportedly afterward) were committed in cold-blood; not as a response to any imminent threat.

Even so . . .

No Exceptional Circumstances Whatsoever... May Be Invoked as a Justification of Torture

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. Its obstuction of justice which I have pointed out

many times, which is why Obama must act.

This is not about Obama, but who we are
as a people..........or should I say folks?




I don't want my children's heritage of their
history brought down to a folksy talking point on something so evil that so many fought and died against to protect our posterity on the rule of law and justice for all humans

[winter is coming]

16. +1. Am I the only one who remembers the Not In Our Name ads?

People got together and bought newspapers ads to publicly disavow the actions of the Bush Administration. Looks like we may need to do that again.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. No doubt the poor torturers we're patriots and under a lot of pressure. K&R

[G_j]

4. K&R!

[malaise]

5. But it all makes sense if perpetual war is your goal

You need enemies to sell weapons.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. The War of Terror is also

a war of control of the masses

The US creates enemies as a controlled opposition that suits the purpose of a shock doctrine to not only the target country but its own population.

[malaise]

7. I experienced that first hand

in the 70s and 80s.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. The history of the CIA and our intelligence agencies

has proven that time and time again....

It didn't go away after Iran Contra hearings ... it just got more hidden with black budgets and private contractors . Obama has no control over this secret government ruled by banksters, military security industrial complex and world corporations.

Call me a CT guy........I take pity on their ignorance and blindness.

[KoKo]

9. That's what we are up against... and it needs to stop NOW....!

Last edited Tue Aug 5, 2014, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm afraid we are at a crossroads. If we don't stop it now or all hell is going to break loose in not too many years in the future.

Our MSM (even much of the MSM/International) is hell bent on War/Conflict Promotion to get eyeballs/money for the Military/Industrial/Wall Street/Global/Media Complex....Poppy Bush's "New World Order" in coordination with other usual suspects in the Think Tanks, IMF, WMF, etc. Where are the WISE ONES? They must be out there or we would have attacked Syria by now instead of stealthily arming the insurgents.

[malaise]

21. Well some of the corporate media are in the business of war

and then there's this

[KoKo]

22. Well...that's very comforting...isn't it. Incredible Graphic reveals......

[GoneFishin]

11. Those who still insist torture is sometimes necessary in the "ticking bomb scenerio"

will scoff at the idea that the torture deliberately leads to more war, and more war to more weapons sales.

But people do bad things for money and power, and history tells us that people do really bad things for a lot of money and a lot of power.

My point is that at least some of the thugs who were engaged in the torture knew damn well that they were torturing innocent people, but that fact was not inconsistent with their goals.

[Enthusiast]

10. Kicked and recommended!

Thank you, Ichingcarpenter.

[Michigander_Life]

12. How is it known that no useful information was obtained from him?

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. you will have to open ther nazi

files that your family has in their history on this case

I go with the Danish records.

[Michigander_Life]

15. Huh?

[democrank]

13. Thank you, Ichingcarpenter.

Torture isn`t about "them", it`s about us.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

17. +1

[madokie]

18. Torture is not how you get useful information out of someone

Its been proven time and again. Like you said they did not get any useful information from torturing. Torturing is to punish, not to get information

thanks for sharing

I help train guys who were being sent into situation where they might get captured and tortured. We did enhanced interrogation in that training but I'm not at liberty to disclose what all we/they did.

Navy SERE school is where this took place during the height of the Vietnam war.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. Powerful story Ichingcarpenter - thank you

One of the war's famous torture cases involved Jean Moulin, leader of the entire French resistance. He was tortured by Klaus Barbie for days before finally dying. The Gestapo wanted the names of all the leaders of the resistance in France. Moulin never gave them a single name despite the horrific torture he received.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Moulin

"...He was, with the other Resistance leaders, sent to Montluc Prison in Lyon, in which he was detained until the beginning of July. Interrogated extensively on a daily basis in Lyon by Klaus Barbie, head of the Gestapo there, and later more briefly in Paris, Moulin never revealed anything to his captors and died near Metz on a train headed for Germany[3] from injuries sustained either during torture or in a suicide attempt. Moulin's ability not to provide information to the Gestapo was extraordinary given the ferocity of the torture he was subjected to, which reportedly included hot needles being put under his fingernails, doors being closed on his hands until his knuckles broke, the use of screw-levered handcuffs to cut into his wrists and whipping and beatings. ..."

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. Klaus Barbie later worked for the US intelligence

For many years If that tells us anything. ....... The Butcher. of Leon

[emsimon33]

23. K&R

[cantbeserious]

24. We Now All Know - Torture By The Good Guys Is A OK

eom