THIS is genocidal

[bigtree]

The Daily Beast ?@thedailybeast 12m

Israeli Major General Giora Eiland: There is no such thing as an innocent civilian in Gaza http://thebea.st/1o7Pzsg

Retired Israeli Major General Giora Eiland wrote in an op-ed that there is no such thing as an innocent civilian in Gaza. Late Monday, the former head of the National Security Council published an article on Ynet News arguing that the citizens of Gaza were as responsible for the recent violence as Hamas. He even made a comparison between the Gaza under Hamas and Nazi Germany.

"They are to blame for this situation just like Germany's residents were to blame for electing Hitler as their leader and paid a heavy price for that, and rightfully so," Eiland wrote.

Eiland's controversial remarks come amid others made by Israeli far-right bloggers and politicians. On Friday, the Times of Israel removed a blog post titled "When Genocide is Permissible," after an outcry from readers. Before that, a right-wing member of Israel's Knesset compared Palestinian children to "little snakes."

The distinction between Hamas and Gaza residents is nonexistent, Eiland argued. And because it tried to distinguish the two, Israel has sabotaged itself by fighting an enemy while providing them with humanitarian necessities.

Instead, Eiland suggested cutting Gaza off completely, writing: "The moment it begins, the right thing to do is to shut down the crossings, prevent the entry of any goods, including food, and definitely prevent the supply of gas and electricity."


read: http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/cheats/2014/08/04/israeli-general-no-civilians-in-gaza/jcr:content




David Sheen @davidsheen · Aug 3
Banner in Israel: "Winning is possible - Shut off Gaza's electricity - Electricity, gas, food - Yes, it is moral."

[NightWatcher]

1. More and more they're letting this idea slip out into the press

How soon they forget how horrible it was to be the focus of extermination. It's a damn shame.

[riverwalker]

2. link to the original article

and this is Israel's second largest paper

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4554583,00.html
In Gaza, there is no such thing as 'innocent civilians'

[sabrina 1]

3. Well, the more we hear the truth slipping out, the more it becomes clear that

some kind of International intervention is badly needed. Not the US, which appears to have zero will or ability to handle this. They've had decades and failed completely. But this appears to be an emergency, with over one million lives at stake. I think it's time for an International intervention to stop this before it's too late.

[rhett o rick]

5. It's time for the UN to step up. The old sheriff is dead. The American Empire

is dead. We must accept that and try to save our people and reestablish our democracy. Cut defense spending now, save our lower classes.

[Skidmore]

35. Time to call political figures here on supporting the political and military systems in Israel

which advocate for genocide. Publicly and loudly. At every opportunity. Write letters. Call. Whatever it takes because no people is deserving of this.

[Aerows]

4. But, but

it's only isolated incidents of

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025337158

people in Israel that are saying things that amount to land grabbing and genocide.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

9. True. But it's the people in charge of the guns.

[leftynyc]

34. No it's not

It's a blog posted by someone living in NY and this guy is retired. Aren't things bad enough without people going hyperbolic?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. Oh sure, what's happening is the result of our fellow peacenicks.

[leftynyc]

43. So it's okay to lie?

That's good to know.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. YNet chose to publish it. Their slogan says it all. Ask them.

[leftynyc]

47. You're spreading it

and pretending that's okay. Like I said, good to know.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

49. It NEEDS to be exposed for what it is....

The ONLY way there can be peace is through the rejection of this crap.

Not the suppression.

Get it out there in all it's ugly glory and make sure people like this don't get into places of power.

[atreides1]

54. You might want to read this!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html


This man isn't retired and he doesn't live in New York...he's a Deputy Secretary in the Likud Party!

[The Magistrate]

6. This Is Well Over The Line, Sir

Leaving to one side that his claim has absolutely no foundation in law, that there is no way in which voting for a government which then goes to war renders anyone a combatant, and that there is no circumstance under present law in which cutting off the food supply to a civil populace is not considered a crime of war, the thing fails even in what it attempts to pass as hard-boiled analysis.

It is certainly true the population of Germany paid a high price in the Second World War. Civilians were taken as target of massive and indiscriminate bombing campaigns, lasting for years. And I do not consider this to have been criminal. It was an effective means of assailing an aggressor engaged in wholesale atrocity; indeed it was for a time the only effective means of assailing that atrocious aggressor. I am sympathetic to arguments of necessity.

But to pretend the actions of Hamas, and the capabilities of Hamas, equate to those of Nazi Germany, is beneath contempt, and further, can only be done by someone with great contempt for the people he is addressing, if he actually expects them to swallow the claimed equivalence and smile and nod afterwards. The Nazis wielded one of the greatest military capabilities ever seen on this planet; it took the combined exertion of foes many times their number and of much greater industrial power, to bring them to a halt and then to defeat. And all the while they were engaged in murdering millions.

Hamas in its capabilities compares to this rather like a fire-cracker to a string of half-ton bombs. Hamas may well dream of doing everything Hitler did, but Hamas is utterly incapable of actually doing it, and is certainly not actually doing it at present. So there is no way that one could plead necessity, that one is admittedly doing great evil, but only to ward off a greater evil actually present and certainly impending, and that one has no other means available to do this but the commission of great evil. That is a respectable argument, that can be pressed in dire straits, and may be necessary in the direst --- but it does not apply here.

[Lithos]

10. +1

You are on a roll tonight

[Samantha]

13. Excellent analysis -- as usual (n/t)

[bigtree]

14. thank you for that perspective

. . . and response to this retired general.

The atmosphere surrounding these tragic events thirsts for this level of insight and understanding like dry air hungers for water.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. +1 Well said

I also hope- well maybe . . . that people at DU will see how ridiculous it is to compare any country to Nazi Germany. 4 Major genocides happened after the Holocaust in the 20th century - and each stood alone.

[Initech]

45. I've been saying that since Lewis Black pointed it out on the Daily Show.

Glenn Beck totally overused the Nazi Germany comparison to the point where it's become it's own logical fallacy. Genocide is wrong no matter which way you look at it, and not a single one can be compared to Germany. You can try but it just makes your argument invalid.

[The Magistrate]

48. Compared To An Ideal, Sir, Anything Actual Must Fall Far Short

Nazism has come to serve in our culture as the Platonic ideal of evil, and not without some justice. Ideals, in this sense, are the pure thing which material objects aspire to replicate, but must necessarily fail to do perfectly, since the material cannot ever match the perfection of the spirit. Thus, saying something is 'like the Nazis' will always have a tinny ring, since nothing actual, concrete, nothing material, can possibly match the perfection of form and substance of a spiritual ideal....

[jberryhill]

7. To be fair....

We need to consider that Hamas alone may be responsible for him saying that. He is not responsible for the things that Hamas makes it necessary for him to say.

[KitSileya]

21. This is sarcasm, right?

Just asking to clarify - a lot of posters on DU are not the progressives I thought they were, so I figure it's best to ask if I am at all uncertain.

[jberryhill]

24. some days, I'm not so sure

But the excuses write themselves, don't they?

[KitSileya]

27. They do.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how many on DU defend Israel's bombing of Gaza, and blame the Palestinians for their own deaths, considering how many show exactly the same attitude when it comes to domestic violence and rape. She shouldn't have worn a low-cut top, what did she expect would happen - The Palestinians shouldn't have tried to gain their freedom by any means possible....

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, after all.

[leftynyc]

36. Bullshit

I defend Israel's right to defend themselves from rockets raining down but I don't blame the Palestinian people - I blame hamas who spent hundreds of millions of dollars that were supposed to be used to help their people and instead bought weapons, rockets and built very sophisticated tunnels. That you want to give terrorists a free pass here is ridiculous.

[KitSileya]

39. I live in a country that was occupied for 5 years.

My great grandparents and grandparents lived through that occupation, and one of my parents was born during it. Growing up, I heard quite a lot about resistance fighting, sabotage actions, and what were considered acceptable ways of fighting back. To me, what the Palestinians are doing seems more akin to that, than terrorism.

How Hamas was supposed to use the money to help their people when Israel blocks pretty much anything from being brought into Gaza, and controls water, electricity, ingress and egress to Palestinian lands, is a mystery to me. Anything they build is bombed, anything they attempt to do is thwarted. I call the people fighting back in Palestine resistance fighters, not terrorists.

[leftynyc]

52. You can call the terrorist hamas

anything you wish. I'll forever be against any group that has announced it wants to kill all Jews and treats their women like shit. They're terrorists and you want to give them a hug - that's adorable.

[noiretextatique]

62. i assume you agree with the OP then?

that all Palestinians, even babies, are terrorists?

[leftynyc]

64. Don't even think about

putting words in my mouth. I VERY specifically said hamas and not Gazans. If you want to think everyone is as bloodthirsty as hamas, that's entirely your problem.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

50. I'm just curious. What constitutes a "very sophisticated" tunnel?

Does that mean the sort of tunnel where they remove the dirt and everything?

[leftynyc]

51. And reinforce the tunnel

with the cement that was meant for homes, schools and hospitals. That's what sophisticated mean.

[el scorcho]

8. It's an unfair statement

Because not everyone in Gaza supports Hamas.

Hopefully the Palestinians get rid of Hamas and elect a responsible government to represent them.

[libodem]

12. What ever happened

To the Palestinian Authority? Weren't they a group?

[NOLALady]

53. Because

once Hamas is gone, the Palestinians will be treated fairly and as equals by the compassionate Israeli government.

[countryjake]

56. Of course...

just like they always have. For generations.








(good one, NOLALady!)

[The Second Stone]

11. A very apt comparison, but just not in the direction he thought.

I wonder if the right-wing militants thinks it goes too far, is an unfair comparison or breaks with "reality":

"They are to blame for this situation just like Germany's residents were to blame for electing Hitler as their leader and paid a heavy price for that, and rightfully so," Eiland wrote.

Israel is responsible for what it does, it is the chosen government of the people allowed to vote. The civilians in Gaza are not responsible for what a bunch of criminals in their midst do, the government that is occupying and blockading is.

[ReRe]

15. K&R

It is uncivilized "Biblical" behavior. This is 2014 A.D., not 2014 B.C. Just because it happened in the Old Testament doesn't mean it's acceptable behavior by a people now.
How disgusting that their leaders would say these hateful things.

[stranger81]

46. Yep. Can't we at least all agree that sticking to moral standards

that have evolved a bit beyond the Bronze Age is a good thing?

[ReRe]

55. Seriously. n/t

[DeSwiss]

16. The problem with Israel......

...is that there are few countries on this planet that aren't culpable in some way of aiding and/or abetting atrocities. Either of their own regional making or by supporting other nations states that do torture and kill indiscriminately. Which is exactly why Israel can IGNORE all calls for restraint and compassion coming from the US.

- We have shown none to our ''enemies'' so why should they? Remember Falluja? What they hate more are the cameras and the technology that allows us to see it at all.

The problem for America in all of this is that its capacity to impact diplomatic negotiations is limited by the fact that its record of asserting its military power stands really at odds with its pretensions of moral authority. For all America's condemnations of chemical weapons, the people of Falluja in Iraq are experiencing the birth defects and deformities in children and increases in early-life cancer that may be linked to the use of depleted uranium during the US bombardment of the town. It also used white phosphorus against combatants in Falluja.

Its chief ally in the region, Israel, holds the record for ignoring UN resolutions, and the US is not a participant in the international criminal court – which is charged with bringing perpetrators of war crimes to justice – because it refuses to allow its own citizens to be charged. On the very day Obama lectured the world on international norms he launched a drone strike in Yemen that killed six people.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/08/us-little-credibility-syria-chemical-weapons

K&R

[n2doc]

33. Hypocrisy is no shield

Countries and their leaders are perfectly happy to say/do one thing today and do the opposite tomorrow. What shields Israel is that they have a very well worked out carrot/stick strategy- Carrot being bribing politicians (present and ex) to support Israel 100%, stick being the smearing of any opposition with the Antisemite label, and if that doesn't work, calling them Nazi's.

[DeSwiss]

41. I would agree.....

...and yet this approach, in the end, has no future. We're even now discussing their ploys openly, whereas only a few weeks ago to do so might almost be seen as heresy. People are no longer so easily falling for anti-Semite/Nazi accusations thrown so quickly to avoid dealing with the open atrocities we're supposed to ignore.

- This is no longer about past wars and fears that Netanyahu is still fighting, Its about arranging a future where we can all survive.

And to do that we must let the past go.

[regnaD kciN]

17. Only one of many, many examples over the past month…

[truedelphi]

18. Can we call it genocide? I mean,

genocide is a term best reserved for actions against Jewish people, no one else.

And it certainly cannot be genocide if the Israelis, God's chosen people, are doing it!

<Sarcasm alert for the above>

[onenote]

26. No. Genocide is a term best reserved for actions meeting the legal definition of genocide

"Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. (Article 2 CPPCG)"

What the asshole quoted in the OP would have Israel do would be genocidal. What Israel has done and is doing is not.

The killing of nearly 2000 Gazans warrants condemnation. But to claim that Israel acted with intent to destroy all of the Palestinians (or such a substantial part as to put their continued existence at risk, which is the accepted interoperation of "in part&quot , is wrong.

I find it notable that the term genocide is so much more quickly used to label actions taken by Israelis than it is with respect to actions that involve killing tens of thousands of people by other groups all around the globe.

[Enthusiast]

19. Maybe we should reconsider Israel's fitness to control nuclear weapons.

[onenote]

23. Do you think the US is fit to control nuclear weapons?

After all, we have right wing assholes here that have called for the use of nukes against various countries. In fact, we have a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, Duncan Hunter, who has expressly urged the use of nukes against Iran.

[Enthusiast]

28. Right.

Last edited Tue Aug 5, 2014, 08:50 AM - Edit history (1)

No one should have of control nuclear weapons.

[malaise]

20. Is this not the logic of sanctions against populations

because you don't like a particular government.

[countryjake]

22. I just said something similar in the thread on Clinton's funeral speech...

at least 500,000 dead Iraqi babies thanks to those starving sanctions.

[malaise]

25. One day people will wake up and see that the West has no saints either

All self interest all the time and lots of collective punishment. Their advantage is controlling the narrative and that has been torn to shreds since we have access to the internet and can avoid their sanitized and biased bullshit.

[m-lekktor]

30. many of us know that already and we are called "America Haters"

by teabaggers and hardcore DU Obama supporters.

[malaise]

32. This is not about Obama n/t

[madokie]

31. You damn right it is

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Eiland's Nazi analogy will soon be decried by those who decry Nazi analogies, no doubt!

"They are to blame for this situation just like Germany's residents were to blame for electing Hitler as their leader and paid a heavy price for that, and rightfully so," Eiland wrote.

[hack89]

38. So Israel was supplying food during the fighting?

did not know that.

The general, btw, is a racist asshole.

[aikoaiko]

40. You can think no one in Gaza is innocent and still not want a single one killed.

I'm not sure your conclusion follows from what was said.

[bunnies]

57. Sarcasm, I hope.

If I starved you... Im pretty sure you'd think I wanted you to die.

[Bjorn Against]

58. If you think no one in Gaza is innocent you are a racist

Anyone who would judge the guilt of every citizen of an entire nation is clearly a racist even if they did not want to kill them. Of course the comments in the OP came from a racist who does support killing the people he is bigoted against as well.

[aikoaiko]

59. Chill. I did not say I believed that.

I was just challenging the ever expanding definition of genocide by the OP

[Bjorn Against]

60. Well it is racism, and the OP is correct that there are genocidal implications in his language

You can choose to condemn his racist and violent language or you can choose to pretend there was nothing wrong in his words. Even if your interpretation is correct he is at the very least an extreme racist.

[noiretextatique]

63. +1000

defending the heinous actions of Israel against civilians by claiming they are automatically guilty...of something...is complete bullshit.

[DeadLetterOffice]

61. So basically...

...Israel's "far-right bloggers and politicians" are just as fucking power-hungry, hateful, and stupid as ours. Lovely. So nice to know America doesn't have the patent on RW insanity.