Images of Gaza Devastation - a picture can destroy a thousand lies

[Fred Sanders]

Last edited Sat Aug 2, 2014, 03:54 PM - Edit history (6)

(Edit correction, 1st photo is Warsaw ghetto - I have fired all my research staff - "unacceptable&quot

:large

(Edit correction, 2nd photo is from the last "grass mowing" of Gaza)







(Mosque, 3 days ago)









(6 days ago, pulling out bodies from the concrete, during "humanitarian ceasefire&quot

_______________________________________________________________________

And those that used to live, work, study, play and pray in these places, the "human shields", the biggest, most evil lie of them all:

[malaise]

1. And people are annoyed that I am condemning this collective punishment

This deliberate destruction and slaughter of a people.

Silence is consent and I do not consent.

[gaspee]

14. Right there with you

I am beginning to despise Israel and their right wing government. I keep seeing polls that say almost 90% of Israelis support this mass murder and displacement. I cannot believe that to be true, but poll after poll shows it to be so.

[chervilant]

131. I've seen polls that indicate 80% of US citizens

support what Israel is doing. Apparently, if one complains, one is an anti-Semite.)

[whathehell]

132. I believe that number has gone down quite a bit. n/t

[madokie]

68. Neither do I consent

What Israel had done and is doing is WRONG, wrong, wrong

You just can't steal peoples land, destroy their lives and not expect them to retaliate. All the Palestinians have been doing is the same as I or most people would do when someone is stealing their homeland, destroying their lives as the Israelis have been doing for 60 plus years now.
What else do you call what the Israelis are doing if its not Thievery and murder? What is it then?
Yes you can say I have my mind made up and I'm on the side of right on this.

[malaise]

69. They can until we rise up and say no

The problem is when those who control the narrative and the world's weapons of mass destruction, they define anyone who disagrees with them as 'a terrorist'. Remember in their twisted view of reality Mandela was a terrorist; MLK was a terrorist, etc. etc. Disagree with the narrative and you are a terrorist.

But yes, we are on the right side of this one. Truth will out.

[madokie]

71. Its time for the rising to begin

It appears that Israel wants to push and push to give them an excuse until they have killed each and every Palestinian. To me it sure looks that way

[Heather MC]

151. Let's not forget they had the Support of the UN, USA and several other

Countries to do what they did, and continue to do.

And I don't know when some idiots decided creating Israel was fullfilling a biblical prophecy, but that is what has been keeping the shit hitting fan for decades.

[madokie]

153. Part of the reason I am

an atheist today is because of shit like this. More people have been killed and property destroyed because of that one book that anything I can think of. Its been going one for hundreds of years too.

this kind of shit is what opened my eyes to the fallacy of religion, religion of any stripe

[7wo7rees]

73. Thank you malaise and Fred S for your continuing to speak out.

Here is a link to what I have become convinced of what is really going on.

http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2499454/gaza_is_annexation_israels_permanent_solution.html

Gaza - is annexation Israel's 'permanent solution'?

Oliver Tickell

31st July 2014
As Israel pursues its war on Gaza with ever-increasing ferocity, and with 25% of Gaza's people forced from their homes, what's the final objective? It's unthinkable that Israel's aim is to 'cleanse' the territory of its people, seize its vast gas reserves, and annex some of the Med's hottest real estate. Isn't it?

more at link

This is the only thing that is making any sense to me of what is happening at this point in time

[malaise]

75. Ethnic cleansing and stealing more land

it's that simple.

Lots of DUers have had enough.

[7wo7rees]

76. it is about gas reserves and a very large amount of money. nt

[malaise]

77. Don't leave out the tourist industry either

slaughter, loot and plunder.

[ReRe]

109. Yeah, but....

... none dare call it "genocide."

[totodeinhere]

159. A lot of DUers yes. Democrats in Congress no. That $225 million military

aid to Israel bill passed Friday with overwhelming support from both parties.

[Bettie]

148. This is what the husband and I have been saying since this whole thing started

It makes me sick.

People who are 100% pro-Israel seem to forget that when it was created, people lived there already and they were not treated properly or even decently.

Now, the descendants of those people are being killed to satisfy the blood lust of a guy who has too much power and not enough conscience.

[G_j]

85. Silence is consent

damn right!

[blkmusclmachine]

108. NO MORE "looking forward."

[billhicks76]

115. Do Not Trust Israel

It would be foolish and naive. No one is buying the BS they are selling anymore.

[sabrina 1]

126. I do not consent either and I could not care less about those who are 'annoyed'.

I don't care about their talking points.
I don't care about their stupid accusations of 'anti-semitism', that one wore out years ago.
I don't care about their anger or their attempts to silence people, that only makes ME more angry frankly.

Silence IS consent, so is excusing any of this.

The ONLY thing that will stop it is a massive, worldwide condemnation of these crimes and that, thankfully, appears to finally be happening. We sure can't depend on the Western 'Govts' we elected, so the people will have to do it themselves now. Boycotts WORK. They helped end Apartheid in S. Africa.

[totodeinhere]

160. As long as Israel continues to get unflinching American support there will be

no consequences. Just this past Friday as you know Congress passed a multi-million dollar militarily aid to Israel bill with overwhelming bipartisan support. And our probable next president Hillary Clinton is even more in the tank for Israel than Obama is. And Elizabeth Warren you say? She voted for the bill.

Do you really see a grassroots campaign to boycott Israel happening in this country? Every poll I have seen shows majority American support for Israeli. In the DU bubble that might not seem like the case, but in reality Israel can act with impunity and America will do nothing about it.

[sabrina 1]

163. No, I don't see a huge movement happening HERE, although there is a large

and growing protest movement against Israel's policies even here. We are not that important, despite what we might think. We are a very small minority of the World population. A mere three hundred million. The planet now has over seven BILLION people and outside OUR BUBBLE here in the US, a huge shift is taking place.

Eg, we USED to control the dictators in Latin America, but not any more. Several Latin American nations have withdrawn their diplomats from Israel. That could not have happened back in the eighties, eg.

During Apartheid the US was NOT supportive of the movement against it either. But the WORLD overwhelmed our leaders and did participate in boycotts that finally led to ending it.

We have to get over the notion that our small population is ALL THERE IS. It is not.

I don't expect US to end this horrific injustice, that would be foolish. I am expecting it will happen without us. We don't have the moral authority to preach to Israel, to begin with.

America is isolated from the rest of the world. You can see it right here on DU. But go abroad and see how much we are losing respect, except from the same old former Colonial states.

The I/P situation has been going on for decades with no way out, the US and Israel have demonstrated they are incapable of resolving it for whatever reason.

So now, it will have to come from elsewhere, NOT from the US and certainly not from Israel.

[totodeinhere]

164. My point was that as long as our country continues its full fledged support

for Israel there will be no consequences regardless of what the rest of the world thinks. It's a fine gesture for those Latin American countries to withdraw their ambassadors, but those countries don't supply Israel with weapons, we do. And they have minimal trade with Israel. We are Israel's largest trading partner, and guess what, China is Israel's third largest trading partner. The Chinese just recently sent a high level trade delegation to Israel in an attempt to increase trade even more. And there are other governments on the Israeli side as well. The Canadian government has arguably shown more enthusiastic support for Israel during this current conflict than the United States has. And it's most notable that several Arab countries have only offered very muted criticism of Israel during this current conflict and in fact the Egyptian government has been openly rooting for Israel to defeat Hamas.

The South African apartheid regime only went down after the United States initiated sanctions. This will not happen in the case of Israel. If any American government tried that it would amount to political suicide. And as I said already, our probable next president Hillary Clinton could not be counted on to reign in Israel either.

[ballyhoo]

144. I have despised them all my life. It is now time

for them to pay. And it will come. It won't come from the US with the wimps in charge. It will come from one that sees what has been done and knows deep inside that an answer has to be made.

[hrmjustin]

2. You won't see this on the MSM.

[Fred Sanders]

8. Of course not, took me all of 5 minutes to find, cut and publish with commentary..hard work for some

[truedelphi]

9. Instead of these pictures, you get CNN talking heads discussing how the

Israelis need to keep Hamas in line, as otherwise Hamas will turn into ISIS, and then a few brief moments later, the talk turns around 90 degrees. The completely contradictory position is then made: that the Israelis need to keep Hamas in line, but not completely overthrow Hamas, as if Hamas is completely overthrown, then ISIS is going to arise from the ashes of Hamas.

Normally I don't watch CNN, as my head spinning at Mach 4 levels disturbs my grey matter. But I made the mistake of watching about twenty minutes last week, and that is the discussion I heard.

[laundry_queen]

33. CNN makes my head hurt

especially on this subject. I'm Canadian and I've been watching our news, which is decently fair, considering Harper's hardline stance. Then I turn to CNN one night and it's like, WTF? It's so clearly propaganda it makes me want to hurl. Our journalists here in Canada make CNN look like clowns.

[Fred Sanders]

36. CNN is embedded with the Israeli government, they barely pretend anymore...enemies of truth

are enemies of mankind.

Wolf Blitzer was a scam artist from the beginning, wearing designer jeans as he pretended to be frightened scurrying on camera, all a set up, into a shelter....hilarious.

[laundry_queen]

63. Oh, he's such a tool. I can't stand to watch him. nt

[DocwillCuNow]

102. He's afraid of dead air.... like a dial tone, never leaving more than a 1/4 second of space between

a continuous stream of unending words. I wish he were as much afraid about dead civilians and children.

[notadmblnd]

87. What, no gas mask?

[ReRe]

113. Yes.

I've started calling it "Wolf's" Channel.

What got me was when he was crouched down in that nice little "tunnel."

[truedelphi]

42. I have on occasion met Canadian journalists covering various

Events here in the USA, and the depth of the coverage offered is amazing.

Here in the USA, the main thing you need to know about our "Broadcasting people" is how they are simply propagandists. Remember Bill Casey's words, from his first address, which happened to be to CIA recruits in the early 1980's: "Within twenty years, every single thing an American believes will be false."

Remember also how Katy Couric interviewed George W? Later on, she is interviewed
about that interview and she confesses that she had wanted to ask him some hard questions. Only she had inferred that the Higher Ups at her TV station were not pleased with those questions so she refrained.

And a smart move, in terms of her career and her standard of living. Had she followed her instincts as a real person, and asked George W those questions, she would have immediately been Phil Donahued-out-of-existence.

[laundry_queen]

62. When I was in school

high school that is, a social studies teacher spent an entire class showing us how to distinguish propaganda from real news. He didn't use examples from Germany or the USSR...he used American and even Canadian examples. It was very eye opening as a teen when you think your own country is 'free' and that the press is to be trusted. It benefitted everyone in my class, that's for sure. That teacher will be my daughters' teacher next year - I hope he teaches her the same thing (lol, I've tried but she is my one kid who doesn't like my lectures on various subjects that I'm passionate about).

Sadly, the media here is also starting to slip - every year it gets worse. It's still miles better than yours, but we even have our own 'fox news north' now. All I can hope is that social studies teachers everywhere are still teaching their students about propaganda.

I remember hearing about Katy Couric and I remember thinking what a coward she was to not speak up. Unfortunately, there are many journalists who are more concerned with their popularity and bank account than finding and communicating the truth.

[PatSeg]

93. I had a teacher like that in high school

I was fortunate to have him for two years and he taught me to think independently and question everything. He was a treasure.

[Dustlawyer]

121. At the University of Texas I had an American professor who was an expert on Iran. He had

actually briefed President Carter and told him that Ayatollah Khomeini was going to return to Iran from exile soon and the revolution and overthrow of the Shah would begin. Zbigniew Brzezinski interrupted and said, "no, the Shah is too powerful and we actually must reign him in." Two weeks later the revolution happened and our Embassy staff were taken hostage.

This professor had us all subscribe to the Christian Science Monitor, an international news paper (pre-Internet) and compare the stories and see how our news is slanted and/or withheld from us. It was an eye opener. I could recall the news reports on the Iranian revolution and hostages. The networks basically told us that Iran was a country of religious zealots and "crazy" people, the WHOLE country! I couldn't understand why they were so damn mad at us and we were never told why. At UT I was told why. We overthrew their Democratically elected government by CIA manipulations (The CIA has subsequently acknowledged this) and had their Prime Minister hung for treason after a quick show trial. We did it for their oil at the request of BP and the British government. We put the "Shah" in power, and he and his Secret Police eliminated all college professors, politicians... In a huge purge to eliminate any possible threats to his rule. The Iranian people lived in fear because of what we did, and we as citizens had no idea what was done in our name. I believe they had every right to hate us and had the situations been reversed, I would be one Iranian hating S.O.B. For sure!

They are still manipulating us as most here at DU know, but seem to sometimes forget. Stay vigilant!

[laundry_queen]

123. Fascinating story, thanks.

I am too young to remember much about that time period, but my dad has always been a news junkie and I do remember him going on about the CIA sticking their nose in the situation.

I know I have a tendency to trust the CBC here in Canada, but I also know that things can drift without one's knowledge. You are right, it's important not to become complacent.

[Bettie]

150. Sounds like a great teacher

But, I bet he'll be hard pressed to find current actual news to contrast with the constant propaganda.

[Enthusiast]

66. Cherish your objective TV journalism. It is a thing of the past in the USA.

[truedelphi]

91. That is certainly true enough. And if Powers that Be have their way, the internet

Will soon be a vast information portal only for those who can pay and pay and pay. Many of us will find ourselves having to limit which Youtube interviews we can watch per week, etc. As only by limiting our use of the internet will we be able to afford it.

[Enthusiast]

124. I fear the same may come to pass.

Our world has become a genuine clusterfuck.

On a semi-related issue, it's stands to reason, if we lose our manufacturing we are going to also lose our standard of living. Our valuable commodity of trade will become agricultural products and intellectual property.

This is not good.

[FrodosPet]

70. Palestinian parody of ISIS

[Purveyor]

78. France24 is pretty good if you can get it. I watch it on Nowhere TV via

Roku.

[ReRe]

111. Fox Lite (er, CNN)

... yeah, I seen it too. My head spinning caused me a neck/shoulder ache that hasn't gone away yet.

[Boom Sound 416]

3. Well let's hope they don't use the cement for tunnels instead of rebuilding

[Fred Sanders]

5. Let's hope Israel uses the free ammo from America and turns itinto plowshares.

All that metal from the bombs could be useful also. To reinforce the mud huts that they should be building......right?

[Boom Sound 416]

6. Sure. I bet the Israelis will be the first to agree

Just as soon as the suicide bombing and rocket threat ceases.

[BrotherIvan]

7. Your post is the perfect example of cold-heartedness.

You can look at pictures of death and devastation and imply these people deserved it? Unbelievable...

[Boom Sound 416]

11. Uh, no

I look at a picuture of rubble that I see on the Internet with ZERO proof of context.

That's what I see first.

Second I see what could have been had they not built a terror tunnel network underneath it.

Call me heartless all you want. I should be able to drag myself to the mirror just fine.

[Fred Sanders]

12. Do you see a blank mirror?

[atreides1]

21. Where are you sitting?

I don't root for terrorists, but I won't root for the Israelis either!

Hamas is not the Palestinian people, anymore then the Irgun or the Stern Gang were representative of the Jewish people fighting for their independence!

[Boom Sound 416]

25. Way to jump in there for the save

[Indydem]

65. Hamas IS the "Palestinian" people!

They are the elected government of Gaza!

They ELECTED people who want to kill the Jews as their representative government.

Why don't you UNDERSTAND that???

[LeftyMom]

74. Hold it! Gonna need an explanation on the scare quotes, scooter.

:crosses arms, taps foot:

[frylock]

81. did you feel the same when GWB was president?

do you take full responsibility for his actions and deeds? I sure as fuck don't.

[Blue_In_AK]

90. Exactly.

I don't take responsibility for any of the USA's warmongering.

[MrMickeysMom]

110. I don't understand that...

… for all the reasons listed above this, and more.

[sulphurdunn]

162. Hamas is the Palestinian people?

No, Hamas is the elected representative of the Palestinians living in Gaza, a majority of whom never voted for Hamas. I think the Palestinian minority that elected it in a three way race were more interested in hopefully protect themselves from the Jews than they were interested in revenge fantasies of killing them all. Can you grasp that concept?

[arcane1]

35. "Terror tunnels" is a propaganda term straight out of the Frank Luntz playbook.

Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians, compared with just three civilians killed in Israel by Hamas rocket and mortar fire. But on television and radio and in newspapers, Israeli government spokesmen such as Mark Regev appear slicker and less aggressive than their predecessors, who were often visibly indifferent to how many Palestinians were killed.

There is a reason for this enhancement of the PR skills of Israeli spokesmen. Going by what they say, the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe. Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".

Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

[Fred Sanders]

38. Propaganda masters of the world have flocked to Israel for well paid propaganda jobs.

[HooptieWagon]

51. Luntz taught them how to spread propaganda through media and social media.

We see the effects of the latter right here on DU.... the lies of RW Likud Party being spewed.

[gaspee]

48. I do not believe

a word out of an Israeli government official's mouth. Why? Because they are PROVEN liars and they have no compassion for those they rule over. And they do rule over Palestinians completely. Nothing gets into Gaza without the Israel's approving it - which is the reason for the tunnels.

[frylock]

82. see also "rape rooms"

[SoCalDem]

19. As simple as that statement is, it IS true.

I am sure that some "planners" in Israel thought the exact thing...

destroy enough in many places, so the locals will put pressure on leaders to repair damage.. takes time, money , effort, and of course cement..

Create just enough chaos, to eliminate the "idle hands are the devil's workshop" syndrome..

Of course there is nothing that can erase the mental trauma of losing family and friends, and every "exercise" creates a whole new batch of enemies

[cpwm17]

20. You have some really twisted morals n/t

[Boom Sound 416]

24. How do you figure?

[cpwm17]

28. You're blaming the victim.

That ain't cool.

[louis-t]

27. You don't understand.

These areas will be reduced to rubble and new Jewish settlements will be built where appropriate. That has been Israel's game all along. Their goal is the same as Hamas, to wipe the other side off the face of the map.

[Boom Sound 416]

31. Well, we disagree. That's fine. Time will tell

And I own up to my incorrect public statements

[louis-t]

34. They've done it before.

I'm 58 years old and I have watched these things unfold for many times.

[frylock]

83. time IS telling

[sibelian]

137. ...

[Bjorn Against]

4. No one can look at these pictures and claim that Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties

You don't flatten entire neighborhoods if you are trying to avoid civilians, Israel is clearly targetting the civilian population of Gaza and these pictures are undeniable proof of that.

[Fred Sanders]

10. It is proof of nothing if no one wants to look at them...and the American media does not.

[Bjorn Against]

16. It is proof, but you are correct that many in the media work to conceal the proof

[mazzarro]

79. And the UN being the sock puppet of the US and the western powers will not do much either - n/t

[onenote]

80. How do you destroy or damage 30,000 residences and kill fewer than 2000 people?

I can think of several explanations, none of which you will like. So I'm curious as to what your explanation is.

[Bjorn Against]

86. Destroying 30,000 residences is an attack on the civilian population

The argument "hey, we bombed your homes but at least only one person died for every fifteen homes we destroyed" does not show respect for civilian life. Just think about how many of the people of Gaza are now homeless, their lives are now in more danger than ever before because Israel took away their only shelter.

[onenote]

89. You still haven't explained how its possible to destroy that many residences without a significantly

higher death toll.

You know the reason. It just doesn't suit your purposes.

[Bjorn Against]

92. Look at any natural disaster and you will see the same thing

Tornadoes will often destroy entire towns with few deaths, but that does not mean the tornadoes are avoiding civilian deaths. Destroying 30,000 homes is despicable, trying to use "only 2,000" deaths as a way to justify such an atrocity makes it even worse.

[onenote]

95. Since some here like to compare Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto

How do you explain the fact that when Germans destroyed the Ghetto, not one Jew survived.

[Bjorn Against]

97. So Israel is better than the Nazis

Unfortunately that does not take much, if that is your best defense you should take another look at what you are defending.

[The Magistrate]

128. But When Your Attack Line, Sir, Is 'Israel Is Just Like The Nazis', It Matters....

[Bjorn Against]

129. Since when was that my attack line?

[Fred Sanders]

135. The magistrate is putting words in your comment and then attacking the words....poor sporting.

[onenote]

142. Maybe not your attack line. The attack line of the OP you seem to be defending.

[Bjorn Against]

147. I do not see those words in the OP either

If you want my opinion on Nazi comparisions however I will give it to you.

I do not believe Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany was, but they are engaging in mass murder. While I will not say that Israel is just like the Nazis myself I am not going to get outraged when other people say it because Israel engaged in mass murder, and once a nation engages in the mass slaughter of innocent civilians I am not going to feel sorry for them when they are called names. I find the mass slaughter of civilians far more reprehensible than I find it when people call mass murderers Nazis.

Once again however I recognize the differences between Israel and Nazi Germany myself and I don't personally use that comparision, I simply refuse to pretend that comparing a repressive government to Nazis is somehow worse than killing civilians in mass numbers as Israel is currently doing.

[onenote]

155. So you won't get outraged if other people say Hamas is like the Nazis

because they have engaged in mass murder of innocent civilians (and are attempting to do so at the present time).

December 2, 2001: A suicide bombing on a No. 16 Egged bus in Haifa killed 15 people and injured about 40 people. Hamas claimed responsibility for the Haifa blast, while Hizbullah's radio and television stations expressed support for the attacks.

December 1, 2001: A double suicide bombing at the Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem at 11:30 p.m. on a Saturday night killed 11 people, aged 12-21, and injured 188 people. A car bomb exploded 20 minutes later. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 9, 2002: Eleven people were killed and 54 injured, 10 of them seriously, when a suicide bomber exploded at in a crowded cafe at the corner of Aza and Ben-Maimon streets in the Rehavia neighborhood in the center of Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 27, 2002: Twenty-two people were killed and 140 injured - 20 seriously - in a suicide bombing at the Park Hotel in the coastal city of Netanya, in the midst of the Passover holiday seder with 250 guests. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 31, 2002: Fourteen people were killed and more than 40 injured in a suicide bombing in Haifa, in the Matza gas station restaurant near a shopping mall. Several of the injured were in serious to critical condition. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 8, 2002: Three Israelis, including a pregnant woman, were killed, and five were injured when an armed terrorist inflitrated the community of Carmei Tzur, south of Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsiblity for the attack.

June 18, 2002: Nineteen people were killed and more than 70 were injured, in a suicide bombing on a bus just outside of Jerusalem. The bus, which was completely destroyed, was traveling from Gilo to Jerusalem and had many students on board. In addition to the bus, at least two other vehicles were severely damaged in the attack. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

August 4, 2002: Nine people were killed and about 50 wounded in a suicide bombing of an Egged bus at the Meron junction in northern Israel. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

September 19, 2002: Six people were killed and 60 wounded when a terrorist detonated a bomb on one of Tel Aviv's busiest streets, in a bus opposite the Great Synagogue. Many of the wounded were in critical or serious condition. Both Islamic Jihad and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

November 21, 2002: Eleven people were killed and 47 injured when a Palestinian suicide bomber exploded on a bus filled with passengers, including schoolchildren, in the Kiryat Menahem neighborhood in Jerusalem. The bus was traveling toward the center of the city during the morning rush hour. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 5, 2003: Sixteen people were killed and more than 30 wounded when a terrorist detonated a powerful bomb on a bus en route to Haifa University. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

January 5, 2003: Twenty two people were killed and about 120 wounded in a double suicide bombing near the old Central Bus Station in Tel Aviv. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Islamic Jihad and Hamas all claimed responsibility for the attacks.

May 18, 2003: Seven people were killed and more than 20 wounded when a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem city bus at the start of the Israeli work week. The bomber was disguised as an ultra-orthodox Jew. Soon after, a suicide bomber carrying explosives and dressed in the garb of an ultra-orthodox Jew was stopped at a roadblock. The Palestinian detonated his explosives, killing only himself. Hamas claimed responsibility in both attacks.

May 17, 2003: A pregnant Israeli woman and her husband were killed when a suicide bomber detonated himself next to them in a public square in Hebron. Hamas claimed responsibility.

April 30, 2003: Three people were killed and dozens wounded in a suicide bombing at a beachfront pub in Tel Aviv. The Fatah Tanzim and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, carried out as a joint operation.

June 11, 2003: Sixteen people were killed and more than 80 wounded when a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem city bus during the afternoon rush hour. The bomber was disguised as an ultra-orthodox Jew. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

September 9, 2003: Hamas claimed responsibility for two suicide bombings, the first at an entrance to the Tzrifin army base near Rishon Lezion and the second at Café Hillel in the German colony neighborhood of Jerusalem, which killed a total of 15 people and wounded at least 80.

August 19, 2003: Hamas and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem killing at least 18 people and wounding nearly 100.

January 14, 2004: A female suicide bomber killed four people and wounded 20 at the Erez Crossing in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and the Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 14, 2004: Ten people were killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing in the area of the Ashdod Port. Hamas and Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack.

August 31, 2004: Sixteen people, including a 3 year old, were killed and about 100 injured when two buses in Beersheba were attacked within minutes of each other by suicide bombers. Hamas claimed responsibility.

January 13, 2005: Six Israelis were killed and five other civilians were wounded in a double suicide bombing at the Karni crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip. The two suicide bombers used a very large explosive device to blast through a defensive wall that separates the Israeli and Palestinian sides at the crossing. Following the blast, the bombers crossed into the Israeli side, carrying explosives on their bodies, which they detonated. Hamas and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed joint responsiblity for the attack.

April 17, 2006: Nine people were killed and at least 40 wounded in a suicide bombing near the old central bus station in Tel Aviv. The blast ripped through Falafel Rosh Ha'ir, the same restaurant that was hit by an attack on January 19. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades both claimed responsibility for the attack. The Hamas led PA government defended the suicide bombing, calling it an act of "self-defense." Hamas official spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri called the attack "a natural result of the continued Israeli crimes against our people".

August 31, 2010: Four Israelis, including a pregnant woman, were murdered when terrorists ambushed their car as they were driving near Kiryat Arba in the West Bank. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, which coincided with the restarting of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks in Washington, D.C.

November 15, 2012, 13 Israelis were injured during the night by rocket attacks from Gaza. One rocket struck an apartment in Kiryat Malachi, killing 3 civilians, including a pregnant woman. T5 were injured in the same attack, including children and infants. A house in Ashdod and a school in Ofakim were also struck by rockets.

[Bjorn Against]

158. If you think I am a fan of Hamas you are sorely mistaken

To answer your question I won't get outraged when any mass murderers are compared to Nazis, and Hamas has engaged in mass murder. Israel has engaged in even more violence against civilians than Hamas has so I think the IDF is worse than Hamas, but both sides are responsible for lots of death and destruction.

[heaven05]

139. oh please!!!!!

disgusting apologist logic. You have NO regard for life except.............?

[Comrade Grumpy]

13. How one-sided. Where are the pictures of the death and destruction in Israel?

Oh...never mind.

[ReRe]

116. ER...

... where are those pictures? Oh yeah, there are none!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

15. And a new generation of hatred comes rolling out of the assembly line

in the factory of hate that is this war. These images tell me that this conflict won't be resolved for a long, long time and what's happening now is going to produce the very opposite of peace.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Yesterday, I think it was on the BBC, I saw a 15-year-old Gaza kid.

His family had just been wiped out by Israeli munitions.

He said he could think of nothing to do with his life now but become a suicide bomber and go to Israel to return the favor.

[calimary]

37. This. ^^^^

It just creates more terrorists.

That's why we HAVE TO find a solution in which the Palestinians get something significant. It cannot be one-sided, benefiting Israel ONLY. We're stuck. There's no other choice here, if we REALLY want a prolonged or (dare we even hope) permanent peace. We CANNOT try or support ANY one-sided solutions. As long as the Palestinians are shoved aside, or fed into some meat-grinder, or forced to accept some sort of hind-teat, Israel will always find itself painted into a corner, and will always face serious threats. We HAVE TO throw the Palestinians a bone if we're ever even to hope to bring all of this to a peaceful conclusion. And it's gonna have to be a pretty big one.

[frylock]

84. lather, rinse, repeat

[Jackpine Radical]

22. I guess the plan is to kill off every last Hamas supporter.

In order to avoid further civilian casualties, the first step is to convert the entire population, from cradle to grave, into Hamas supporters by destroying their property and families and expelling them from their homes. Then any Palestinian you kill is automatically a dead Hamas supporter, and peace will be attained with the death of the last Palestinian.

A strategy based on unassailable logic.

[calimary]

32. That will never be possible. It will only beget more sympathizers on their side.

Especially if THEIR side can translate this into a Holocaust against them. There will be others coming after them to seek revenge. All this stuff only guarantees that result. This kind of thing NEVER ends well.

[malaise]

67. Sadly that's it in a nutshell

[nilesobek]

104. It might end with Muslim countries uniting, then an all-out

attack on the state of Israel. Pakistan has nukes. Iran has over 600,000 medium range ballistic missiles, and even though they are conventional missiles, they would level Israel with that kind of bombardment. So keeping Iran from having nukes isn't as important as some people think. Their conventional arsenal is more that enough.

Even if some posters are totally correct in the belief that this is genocide on the Palestinian people that will be the end of the expansion. Which land will they go after next? Jordan? Egypt? I don't think so. Israel will always be a tiny country bordered by hostiles all around.

[4now]

23. Very powerful images

I don't know how civilized people can justify the indiscriminate brutality and violence being used against civilians especially the children.
You don't have to be a Hamas supporter to see that what Israel is doing is wrong.
I don't know how some people sleep at night.

[seveneyes]

26. Many more pictures here

https://www.google.com/search?q=suicide+bombers+in+Israel&source=lnms&tbm=isch

[Fred Sanders]

30. Anything less than 2 years old, otherwise.........

[pa28]

29. It's not a war. It's a slaughter.

Damn.

[snagglepuss]

39. A pure unadulterated terror campaign.

[panader0]

49. Shock and Awe Israeli style

[Fla Dem]

40. Why didn't they just drop an atomic bobm and be done with it. Pictures remined me of the

pictures of Nagasaki and Hiroshima after the bombs were dropped.

[onenote]

127. Have you actually ever seen pictures of Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I'm guessing you haven't, since there is no comparison.

The bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed around 70,000 people instantly and caused the destruction of a five square mile area.

[Fla Dem]

133. I was comparing visually, pictures I HAVE SEEN, of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with Gaza.

Geez, seriously, you had no one else to pick on. I said nothing about the level of destruction or the number of deaths.

Gaza


Hiroshima

[onenote]

143. Really. The pictures of Gaza you have seen include the one in your post?

That's a picture of the Warsaw Ghetto after it was razed by the Germans.

If you're going to be a propagandist, at least don't make it so easy to unveil you.

[WillyT]

41. K & R !!!

[snagglepuss]

43. Israelis terrorizing Palestinians. No other possible explanation.

They are aiing at terrorizing Palestinians into complete submission.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. The first one looks like an atomic bomb went off.

[brachism]

45. FYI, the first picture is neither Gaza nor recent...

The first picture is from the bombing of Warsaw in World War II. I'm not a history buff, but I believe it was after the Warsaw Uprising.

Some images of that destruction can be found in the video at the following link. The exact image is at 3:51.

[geomon666]

46. The first photo is fake.

It's part of a virtual reconstruction of the destruction of Warsaw during WWII.

The second one, with the armed man standing in the rubble, is from at least 2009.

The others are accurate though. It's absolutely devastating.

[Comrade Grumpy]

47. Ooh, maybe a deliberate fake, for irony's sake.

Is it Gaza or is it the Warsaw ghetto? The results are very similar.

[Fred Sanders]

57. My error actually, but a fortuitous error, because it all looks the same.......

[joshcryer]

64. No they're not.

Not even remotely comparable.

[Viva_Daddy]

50. There is nothing "surgical" about this. This is SLAUGHTER!

[AllyCat]

52. Damn them. All are terrible. That last breaks my heart

[easychoice]

53. An absolute outrage!

We fund this Genocide against our will.
It stops in Washington D.C.

[mitchtv]

54. well, noone is worrying about

the settlements

[dead_head]

55. Can someone explain me how this

will solve anything?

Seriously.


Awaiting the Hamas started it first in 3...2...1...

[Warpy]

56. Horrifying

There is no excuse for this much overkill.

Israel will become a pariah state until it has a change of government and I don't see that happening.

Hamas will become more vicious and might develop rockets that actually hit something. The most peaceful people in the world get radicalized when war turns them into people with nothing left to lose.

Violence begets more violence.

[Paper Roses]

60. Agree. n/t

[alphafemale]

58. Those who cannot remember the past.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
(George Santayana)

[onenote]

99. Sadly, the OP doesn't remember the past. He distorts it.

[Brewinblue]

59. Being of Jewish heritage, this sickens me to no end.

To see Nazi style tactics employed by Jews against innocent woman and children, it's truly unthinkable yet really happening.

[Fred Sanders]

61. The propaganda in Israel and America is just plain scary, it brings back memories of another time.

[busterbrown]

72. Something else to think about..

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

[onenote]

88. And a picture can be used to spread a lie.

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2014, 10:58 AM - Edit history (2)

Such as the lie that what is happening in Gaza, as terrible as it is, compares in any way to what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto.

For starters, the Warsaw Ghetto was a walled area 1.3 square miles in area in which some 400,000 Jewish men, women and children were confined. Gaza has 1.8 million residents in an area that is 140 square miles. Even Gaza City, the most densely populated part of Gaza, is 17 square miles and has a population density that is 10X less that the Warsaw Ghetto.

The photo representing the Warsaw Ghetto depicts what it looked like after the Germans put down the uprising there. In the end, over 300,000 of the Jews of the Ghetto were exterminated, either in Nazi gas chambers or ovens, or shot or burned to death during the razing of the Ghetto by the Germans, who went building to building with flamethrowers.

The area depicted is the entire Ghetto. All 1.3 square miles of it. The pictures of Gaza (including the five year old one that the OP made to seem like a recent picture) show areas of a few blocks.

Is the death and property destruction in Gaza terrible. Yes.

Is it remotely comparable to the systematic extermination of the Jews of Poland in the Warsaw Ghetto? No.

I'll pose a question I've posed previously. According to Palestinian sources, some 5000 residences have been destroyed and 26,000 damaged. How does one do that, how is it possible that the death toll of women and children is around 500? Could it be that the Israelis tried to warn Gazans of impending attacks? They weren't successful in all cases, but since the comparison is to the Warsaw Ghetto, I can tell you with complete confidence that the Germans did not give anyone in the Ghetto an opportunity to get out of harms way before razing, with explosives and fire, the Ghetto.

Corrected: typo that converted Gaza's area from 140 to 340.

[COLGATE4]

94. Once again the horror of the Warsaw Ghetto is

used as a club to try and beat nonbelievers into submission. Disgusting.

[oberliner]

125. One poster in particular seems to be spearheading this comparison

Though there are many here, it seems, in that poster's corner for some reason.

As the facts you presented indicated, that reason cannot be that the comparison is an apt one since it very clearly is not.

[heaven05]

136. with your 340 square miles obfuscation

making a 40 miles long, 4 mile wide strip of land into something it is not, is shameful. Your reduction of the slaughter and murder by the jewish state of Palestinian innocent men, women and CHILDREN/BABIES into something as innocuous as a few square blocks of destruction is a horrible reflection of your humanity of which, by your response, shows very little. This Warsaw Ghetto comparison/indignation vs the Gaza slaughter is fake and reprehensible. It is getting old and ugly as comparisons go.

[blackspade]

140. First off....

All of the Gaza Strip is 139 sq mi not 340 (as if that makes a huge difference to the people being killed).
That is over 13,000 per square mi. Now the actual density is higher because the Israelis have depopulated approximately 40% of Gaza as a 'protection zone' so the actual living area is only about 55.6 sq mi.
Density wise that is over 32,000 per sq mi.

And the death toll of the current assault by the IDF is well over 1000, not 500.

And this:

Could it be that the Israelis tried to warn Gazans of impending attacks? They weren't successful in all cases, but since the comparison is to the Warsaw Ghetto, I can tell you with complete confidence that the Germans did not give anyone in the Ghetto an opportunity to get out of harms way before razing, with explosives and fire, the Ghetto.

Warnings? Seriously? This is your argument as to why it is ok to deprive people of their lives? Because the were 'warned?'

Sickening.

[onenote]

141. I never once condoned the killing in Gaza

But what is sickening is trying to make it out that what is happening in Gaza is comparable to what happened in Warsaw.

Its interesting. Many of those defending Hamas make the point that Hamas, despite their best efforts, hasn't killed women and children in Israel. Apparently proportionality counts only in that regard, not in regard to comparisons to Warsaw, the Holocaust (or Hiroshima).

And to put the 32,000 per square mile density of Gaza in perspective: the density in the Warsaw Ghetto (remember, that's what this thread is about: comparing Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto) was over 300,000 per square mile. (For further perspective, 32,000 per square mile is less than half the density of Manhattan)

[blackspade]

146. Apologizing for it is condoning it

Sure, the Gaza prison is not Warsaw, but how does that justify the brutal IDF offensive against civilians?

Does the IDF have to massacre another 10,000 before you start to gain some empathy for Palestinians?
And who is defending Hamas here?
This is about civilians, not a small band of terrorists.
Doing this shit only hardens a population. It happened during the WWII and it continues to happen today.
Why the Israeli leaders don't understand history indicates to me that they are either ignorant or psychotic.
Either way these are war crimes.

[onenote]

149. I didn't condone it. I didn't justify it. And thank you for conceding my point

Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto cannot and should not be compared.

As for asking me if the IDF has to "massacre another 10,000" before I gain some empathy, I have repeatedly and consistently said that what is happening in Gaza is terrible. It need to stop.

But let me ask you a question about proportionality: do the rockets fired by Hamas have to start killing Israelis (and how many) before you have any empathy for those being targeted by Hamas?

[blackspade]

152. They can't be compared...

now. But give it time. I'm sure the IDF will rise to the challenge.
So, if it needs to stop, why do the Israelis not stop? I'll answer: They don't want too.

To answer your question: This is a red herring. I have empathy for all of the people dying in this stupid conflict.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. They are criminals. They should not target civilians any more than the IDF.
But, you don't arrest or otherwise neutralize (kill, capture, whatever) by destroying their homes and killing their children and wives, as well as everyone else in the building.
You also don't bomb schools, hospitals, and powerplants to 'punish' a whole city for the crimes of a few criminals.
This is a war crime.

You want to talk about comparisons....The damage that Hamas is doing does not equate to the what IDF is doing to Gaza any more that what is happening in Gaza compares to the Holocaust. On that we can agree.

[onenote]

156. Correct. So I hope to see you joining me in condemning those making such comparisons

[blackspade]

157. Yep, I'll just wait on the comparisons until the IDF killes the fuck.....

out of Gaza. But then the damage will be done. So then, there will be no need to compare.
Look forward and all that....

[kentuck]

96. Hatred.

Magnified and exposed.

[Uncle Joe]

100. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Fred Sanders.

[killbotfactory]

101. It's essentially the Dahiya Doctrine

The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

It's sickening that anyone defends this practice, or washes their hands of the conflict with the words "Because Hamas".

[mwrguy]

103. The truth about this terrorist regime cannot be hidden.

It will get out.

[Flatulo]

105. What really sickens me is that this is all being done over religion. Motherfu*king religion.

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2014, 12:52 AM - Edit history (1)

The Arabs and modern Jews are genetically nearly indistinguishable.

[KoKo]

106. Collective Punishment.....There's no excuse for this.....none.!

[blkmusclmachine]

107. We're paying for this with our US Tax Dollars, yes?! Because of our fetish with End Times/Armageddon

and the nutso belief that Israel is Ground Zero in that rightwing fantasy.

[MrMickeysMom]

112. You know what I'd like to see dovetailed with this destruction?

The manufacturers of everything that was used to level Gaza. Then, maybe we could see their return on investment…. quarterly profits… executive board… Washington lobbyist???

$$$ Cha-ching, America $$$… This, plus debt represents one of the biggest things driving the economic engines discussed in cigar filled rooms.

[Dragonfli]

118. I see a great deal of passion concerning this issue, but no one is laughing.

It appears obvious to me that there is disproportionate violence resulting in an extremely high rate of civilian casualties. A response to rockets fired is certainly justifiable but I believe there lies a middle ground somewhere - where you see only black or white.

All civilian deaths are equally tragic to me, I side with the people on both sides of the border rather than choosing between Hamas, a terrorist group and Likud an extreme right wing group responsible for many avoidable deaths.

I find your premise false since you appear to require a black and white answer devoid of any nuance or consideration.

[Fred Sanders]

119. "They hate Jews more than the lives of their children"...your solution is death to them all...sad.

You are anti-humanity.

Strange how you can post unhinged hatred against one side being slaughtered in the thousands, but reasoned rebuke against the aggressor side is verboten.

[Dragonfli]

120. "they hate Jews more than they love their own lives. They are happy if their child dies"

How do you define "they"? Are all Palestinians Hamas IYO? I imagine few of the children that died are the children of HAMAS operatives, so no, they are not happy their children are dying, they certainly do not appear happy as they cry and wail, they are an awfully large group and you appear to me to be a bit of a racist using such broad generalizations, please stop.

[Fred Sanders]

122. Dehumanization first, genocide later, it is a tried and true method for justification for killing.

[madfloridian]

130. US just gave Israel 225 million. Just like Iraq....in our name.

I can not bear to see such destruction.

[G_j]

138. it never ends

[heaven05]

134. this is state sanctioned murder

with genocide the outcome at the least, ethnic cleansing at the most. Both are horrific crimes against the humanity that resides in the Palestinian people. No excuse for this unnecessary slaughter and all this for the murder of three Israeli children. The murderers could have/would have, with the right pressure, been found, tried and convicted. Nothing excuses the Israeli slaughter of innocents. Just wrong.

[TBF]

145. Feel free to use the ones from my post as well -

I read Haaretz and Tikkun regularly and they have been sadly documenting these atrocities.

[chrisa]

154. How did you find these pictures? Just wondering.

[Rex]

161. It is interesting watching Israel behave like America when we decide to use our military

and the condemnation that comes afterward; cold, brutal, overkill, shock and awe, mowing the lawn...here is what we use to mow the lawn...a term often used in the military.



Maybe one day humans will realize we've wasted several lifetimes of humanity along with trillions and trillions of dollars - just to murder each other when it is convenient. It is insane to believe people kill other children...to protect their children. As if there are breaks in time. The children of the Great War went on to fight WWII. The children of WWII vets went on to fight in Vietnam (a lot of WWII vets went on to fight in Korea and Vietnam). 14 years later...what did we go into Afghanistan for again? How are we going to deal with ISIS...something we will have to admit is unintentionally by our own creation (killing off Saddam).

We rob each generation when we go to war as adults...our children either die or end up going to war in the next return. Their children end up dying in the next war...seems this and last century are the era of indiscriminate global warfare.