Netanyahu to US "Don't ever second guess me on Hamas again"

[whathehell]

http://news.yahoo.com/netanyahu-us-dont-second-guess-hamas-091032793--politics.html?vp=1


or he'll do WHAT, exactly?...Start refusing the 2 billion a year we

give his fucked up administration?

What an ARROGANT prick!!...Who the FUCK does he think we are,

his PUPPETS? I'm sorry, but this POS should be put in his place

'cause, unless I'm deeply mistaken, he and his country depend on us

a lot more than we do THEM -- See how Israel would be doing in their

current war ON Gaza without those Missile Shields we just bankrolled for

them.

The outrageous disrespect he, and some others in Israel have

shown our Secretary of State, our President, and his administration

makes me want to kick their asses, literally AND metaphorically.

How 'bout we cut off their funding and see how "independent" they

are then?

P.S. Before accusations to the contrary start coming, I'm stating,

for the record that I'm NOT "anti-Semitic"or "anti-Israel" -- I'm anti-

Netanyahu, anti-Likud Party for their INSUFFERABLE hubris, not to

MENTION their indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza.

[The Magistrate]

1. I Agree, Ma'am: That Is Intolerable

My reaction, if in charge of policy, would be to inform him the United States would begin to abstain on resolutions involving Israel in the Security Council, and would continue to do so until he began to conform to U.S. direction, rather than demanding we follow his lead like he were a toddler walking a St. Bernard.

[hlthe2b]

3. Yes. I agree.

[whathehell]

7. Thank you, Sir.

You're idea regarding the Security Council sounds excellent.

[Iamthetruth]

14. How fast do you think

The Democrats would lose Florida and possibly NY if they were to do that? Before you start throwing out numbers of Jews in each State you need to understand the type of money the Democratic party gets from the Jewish vote. That money flowing the other way would be very bad.

[The Magistrate]

18. You Cannot Allow Yourself To Be Spoken To Like That, Sir

And when someone does, he has to suffer a consequence.

Put bluntly, I doubt Florida would be lost, and am certain New York would be unaffected. I suspect you greatly over-rate the support Netanyahu enjoys among Jews in the United States. Were the line I suggest seriously proposed, Netanyahu would face serious pressure from Jews in the United States to back water and comply.

[Iamthetruth]

37. Magistrate, are you Jewish

I am and I regularly attend Temple as I did last night. I am not a 1% guy but I would consider myself well off. The Temple I go to is in the same tax bracket as I am. Trust me when I say this, this war is a major concern to my Temple. So much so that the Men's club at our Temple is having a meeting Monday to discuss. I don't know a single Jew that does support Israel at this time, I think you are 100% off on this.

[The Magistrate]

50. So You Are On The 'Only A Jew Can Know' Tack, Sir?

That cuts no ice with me.

No one is suggesting Jews do not support Israel, particularly at a time of active hostilities, but that is a very different thing from supporting the policy of Israel's present government long term, and a very different thing from acting to enable domestic policies they oppose strongly to be put in place here by siding with Israel's present government against the government of the United States.

[Iamthetruth]

58. I never implied I was the only Jew

Nice try though, I did say that out of my Temple, which is the largest in the State I have not heard one person criticize Netanyahu.

[The Magistrate]

73. I Will Do You The Courtesy, Sir, of Pretending You Actually Did Misunderstand My Words

And point out that my meaning was that you are claiming only a Jew can understand the relation of Jews here to Israel, and by extension that only Jews can or should comment on the matter, and only their comments should be given heed. It is a very shabby attempt at carving out a privileged position for yourself and your comments here, which I do not and will not take seriously as anything but an attempt at one-upsmanship....

[busterbrown]

121. I’m a Jew and just posted this on another thread. Have had a few negative replies claiming that

Alicen Weir is a psychotic anti semite... But it sure cleared up a lot of issues for me..

Its long but worth the read when you get time..


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

[The Magistrate]

134. That Is an Extremely Biased, Highly Slanted Account, Sir

As a piece of white-shoe agit-prop, it is a good job, but it is propaganda, not history. I would suggest you delve into the matter a good deal further than that. A person who knows his or her business from the other could can tear this thing to shreds. I do not have time at the moment to do the demolition job, nor the inclination at present, but it not something you should rely on for fact or interpretation.

[Alameda]

164. Actually, her account is pretty spot on

of course the history of the Levant is complicated and would take volumes to go over, but she has trimmed it down quite well. There really is no one liner to explain the history of the area. One thing is for sure though is the fact that Isreal has ignored international law over and over and over again. They have ignored the Geneva convention over and over many times.

FWIW.....there even has been evidence of Neanderthal and Cro-magnon habitation.

[The Magistrate]

168. Only If You Do Not Know Much About It, Sir

Or are in the throes of a bad passage of confirmation bias. It is a sort of 'Team Palestine' mirror of CAMERA tracts, is about the kindest summary one could make. Those often contain some facts, too, selected carefully, and interpreted without much regard for context and actual conditions of the past....

[Alameda]

170. I know a great deal about it, have been watching and studying it for 50 years......so....

get off your soap box.

[The Magistrate]

172. If You Say So, Sir....

That would put your affection for it into the confirmation bias line.

[Alameda]

173. Huh???!!!

.............so either we don't know anything about it, and it we do, and don't agree with you, we are biased? Hey, the problem has been going on a very long time and I have been alive a long time, and aware, and study history all that time.....so if I don't agree with you, I am biased?
Bottom line is Alison Weir's information is very spot on.

I suppose you will write some insipid response to this message and we can go on and on....some people just HAVE to have the last word. I've got other things to do and am done with this dialogue with you now

[The Magistrate]

176. It Is An Exercise In Cherry-Picking, Sir

And can only be taken for a useful overview either by someone new to the game, or by someone who made up their mind well before encountering it, and finds it confirms their prior conclusions.

To take just some aspects of but one question, the Partition of '47.

This is presented as something arising de novo in the General Assembly, the result of U.S. pressure.

The first proposal for partition of the Mandate territory came from the Peel Commission before WWII, enquiring into the cause and course of the Arab Revolt of '36 ( which carried on into 1939 ). Its map was somewhat more favorable to the Arabs, and was both precedent and basis for the eventual United Nations decision. The Peel map was accepted in principle by the leading Zionist bodies, though they certainly hoped to alter it were it actually implemented under English authority. Pressure regarding votes on the Partition came from both sides, and threats of war and pogrom were a staple of opposition from Arab states. One of the things leading to both U.S. pressure for the Partition, and for the failure of Arab efforts to prevent it, was the close identification of Arab Nationalist leadership with the Axis powers before and during the Second World War. That this was in part an outgrowth of anti-colonialist resentment against England and France, applying the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' principal, was not considered much of an excuse, and the open record of the Mufti's close collaboration with Hitler, and the pogrom accompanying the 'Golden Square' coup in Baghdad early in 1941, gave it considerable bite. That governments in most European countries were at this time in the hands of people who had resisted the Nazis, even under occupation, was a major factor in attitudes regarding this.

I could go on at greater length, but as I said above, I really have neither time nor inclination to present a point by point rebuttal of the thing. It is what it is, an exercise in cherry-picking and distortion by omission and de-contextualizing and anachronistic presentation, in favor of one side of a dispute.

[Alameda]

183. Your point?

..............and as you said the old "enemy of my enemy" thing does count here. How far back shall we go? "The bride is married" The Husain-McMahon Letters? ...or "Bonaparte has published a proclamation in which he invites all the Jews of Asia and Africa to gather under his flag in order to re-establish the ancient Jerusalem. He has already given arms to a great number, and their battalions threaten Aleppo"

The point is now the IDF has crossed all bounds of any sense of proportionality, failed to protect those who legally they are bound to protect, transferred their citizens to land that is not theirs. I think they have become blinded by their lust for land. The theft of Palestinian resources is outrageous.

[The Magistrate]

184. The Point, Sir, Is The Character Of A Particular Piece Of Writing

I have demonstrated it does not provide an accurate summary, that it is as I have characterized it: an exercise in cherry-picking, in omission by distortion, de-contextualizing, and anachronistic presentation.

That is all which concerns me in exchange with you here, which began with your endorsement of the thing as a sound presentation of history. It is not a sound presentation of history.

[Iamthetruth]

138. Well Sir, I was right

Only a Jew can understand what its like to be a Jew living in Israel living next to a group of people who's only reason to live is to kill you and your kind. So Sir, how can you relate to a Jew who's family was all but wiped out by Hitler in WWII and sit back and listen to hate coming out from all over the world directed at that same group.

[Violet_Crumble]

153. Who's this 'group of people'? The Palestinian people? n/t

[The Magistrate]

161. You Would Do Well To Write This Effort Off as A Failure, Sir, And Move On To Other Lines

You cannot carve out a privileged position for comment on this matter, any more than a person could do by claiming to be Palestinian or American Indian or what have you: they have all been tried, no one is overly impressed. Your words, even your words proclaimed as the words of a Jew speaking for other Jews to Gentiles, is worth no more than the cogency of your comments, and what grasp they may or may not display of the subject.

Your opening bid boils down to this: we should support Israel and refrain from criticizing it for fear of what the 'hidden hand of the Jew' will do to the prospects of the Democratic Party otherwise. It is an odd position for a 'gentleman of the Hebrew persuasion' to adopt in the early years of the twenty-first century: it smacks of the fantasies of Buchan and his ilk from a century ago, the sort of delusions that drove U.S.and English policy in Russia and Central Asia and yes, even the Levant, in last years of the Great War. Really best to drop it....

[Iamthetruth]

261. I never said

Everyone should support Israel, there are people like you that would never do such a thing for any reason. I merely pointed out why a Jew would support them and why you would not understand the feelings of a Jew unless you lived that life. You sir could never understand.

[The Magistrate]

267. Your Problem, Sir, Is That You are Speaking To a Man With An Excellent Command Of English

So trying to claim you did not really man what your words conveyed will not get you very far.

Neither will describing me as a die-hard foe of Israel; that will raise some serious laughter among old lags here....

"Score-cards! Get'cher score-cards here! Can't tell the players without a score-card!"

[Iamthetruth]

268. Not my problem at all

Please understand me, your arrogant attitude towards me is wasted. I'm not going to go personal because its not necessary, you're trying to argue from a point of weakness and while more may support your point of view on this board, it hardly makes you right.

Good day sir.

[The Magistrate]

269. Thank You For The Laugh, Sir

Nothing cuter than a little pup with all four paws up in the air....

[Iamthetruth]

270. Seriously

If this is where you find life victories have at it, I'm a giving person.

[The Magistrate]

271. And Yet You Keep Coming Back, Sir....

"The man can't stick to a good resolution, nor a bad one, neither."

[Iamthetruth]

272. You make me laugh

It's been a long Monday with a lot of meetings, laughing is good.

[The Magistrate]

273. You Need To Write Your Own Material, Sir

Obvious copy-catting like that is no fun for anyone....

"I hate flattery, especially the awkward kind you have to work to believe."

[cascadiance]

166. Withe recent editorial pulled that rationalized justifiable genocide on Palestinians...

... Perhaps if you replaced your words in this comment where you substitute "Palestinian" for Jew, perhaps you might understand now how THEY feel that perhaps it is the Jews have their only purpose of exterminating them? If that kind of feeling "justifies" genocide, do you see how that editorial in effect gives justification for what Israelis claim Palestinians are doing to them? If Israelis are talking openly about genociding Palestinians because they claim that Palestinians want to wipe out them, then perhaps the Palestinians have Israeli's own words defining why perhaps they might be justified in wiping out Israel too.

This BS of extrapolating "everyone on the other side" wanting to wipe you out is what is going to have you both wipe each other out. Given that Israel does have nukes, this possibility of suddenly you nuking each other with the extremists on both sides wanting to wipe each other out seems more likely each day. Too bad your neighbors will have to live with the fallout if that happen.

If only the peaceful Israelis and Palestinians that are ignored by everyone there were somehow given more of a voice and power to take charge and put the extremist murderers on both sides in prison where they belong, and start down a path of reconciliation, that will likely take at least two generations to start to realize with all of the kids that are being killed and traumatized this time around.

[whathehell]

245. No, I think you're wrong..I think the Palestinians now know that

feeling, and have known it for awhile.

The Holocaust has been over for near 70 years now..It's

not an excuse to slaughter women and children for the next 70 years/

Jews are NOT the only people in the world who have been hated,

threatened and exterminated.

Go talk to some Armenians about their genocide some time, maybe

some Rwandans -- While you're at it, read a book on The Great Hunger,

and how England not only allowed, but HELPED Millions of Irish to starve

to death in their own country.

[Iamthetruth]

262. Can you show me another group

That has been the target so many times for so many years?

[whathehell]

274. I think so, though I'm not sure how relevant that is to your argument, given present circumstances.

African-Americans.

[Iamthetruth]

275. On a world wide level

You would be wrong.

[whathehell]

276. On a 'world wide level", your conclusion doesn't work

because Jews have not been part of "the whole world", only Europe

and the Middle East.

If You REALLY want to talk about long time suffering, check out

the "Untouchables" also called "the Dalit" of India -- Their history is

at least as long as that of the Jews, and even if it wasn't, I fail to

to see how this gives wealthy Israel a "pass" to slaughter the

impoverished, imprisoned people in Gaza --- These people cant

even ESCAPE to a safe place -- It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

The Israelis tell them to go somewhere "safe" and then they bomb

the supposed "safe" buildings -- It's all extremely close to genocide

and the whole world, minus a few of the heavily biased, like yourself, is

sickened by it.

[Jackpine Radical]

79. You confused the hell out of me until I figured out this sentence is missing a negative--

"I don't know a single Jew that does support Israel at this time"

[defacto7]

84. I was hoping that is what he meant..

and Magistrate was wrong. But, oh well.

[dhill926]

152. ah yup.....

was perplexed as well at the resultant narrative...

[Aerows]

193. Half the posts on DU

about the I/P conflict have me perplexed. One day, it's "we found weapons in an UNRWA facility" The next is "there were no weapons found in an UNRWA facility."

It's dizzying to keep up. There is enough misinformation going on to power a shit-ton of hot air balloons.

[arikara]

177. Me too

that missing negative gave me some hope. I mean, just because somebody is Jewish doesn't mean that they blindly have to go along with whatever that asshole butcher natanyahu wants. We have an asshole running Canada into the ground too, that doesn't mean sane people like him or support him in any way shape or form.

[LordGlenconner]

159. C'mon

You do realize he essentially just told the President of the United States to fuck off?

This has been a very illuminating OP for me to read. When this began I was firmly on Israel's side. But between the slap dick tactical approach by the IDF which has led to absurdly high levels of civilian deaths and these latest comments I now believe that was a mistake.


Perhaps you and your friends could give a thought to which country you live in now. I have no confusion as to that point. How anyone can argue against their own governments efforts at cease fires or any peaceful means of resolving the situation is beyond me.

In a just world the aid would be cut off at once and Bibi would be left to fend for himself.

[Jackpine Radical]

210. So then you have to ask yourself

"Just why has this not happened?"

Be careful of how you frame your answer, though. It could earn you an alert.

[truedelphi]

104. Way way back in the 1980's, Sen Charles Percy of Illinois

Decided he could no longer abide by AIPAC restrictions. On account of that, he didn't seek another term in the US Senate.

Yes, the guy had an "R" after his name, but by today's terms he would be to the far left of most Democrats.

[BlueMTexpat]

32. It is interesting that you would state something like this.

The overwhelming majority of American Jews whom I know/have known have never supported Israel's continued encroachment on Palestinian lands, nor its ongoing use of disproportionate force to mete out collective punishment. Check out, e.g., J Street (http://jstreet.org/about) and its Wiki description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Street).

I am not myself Jewish, btw, but I generally support J Street.

The "Jewish vote" (whatever the f* that means) is certainly not an anti-Palestinian bloc. In fact, I would venture to bet that those American Jews who are most in support of the current outrageous and bloody policies followed by Netanyahu and his ilk have much more in common with US radical RW Christians - who do NOT vote in support of Democratic politicians in any event, and never will.

I also believe that I would win that bet.

[SunSeeker]

194. Exactly right. nt

[sabrina 1]

41. So what you are advocating is that we remain silent on wrong doing, for the worst of

reasons, MONEY?

No thank you, THAT is what got us where we are, selling souls and principles for money.

[malokvale77]

129. This...

which is why I am poor. I have refused to sell soul or principle for money.

Thank you sabrina 1. You have hit the nail on the head.

[spooky3]

214. +1000

[Scootaloo]

53. I hope you're not saying Jews are single-issue voters on Israel n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. I trust you do realize that if critics of the state of Israel were to say what you have just

stated clearly and unambiguously regarding the power Jews have over the American political system they would be quickly denounced as anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

[mazzarro]

132. BINGO!

K&R x100

[Crunchy Frog]

224. With post hidden, and probably PPRed.

Basically advocating the position that American Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the U.S. government.

[Douglas Carpenter]

227. Iamthetruth cleary believes that a cabal of rich Jews will break the Democratic Party if

the Democratic Party won't do their bidding

[tularetom]

64. Are you saying that support of Israel is necessary in order to get campaign money from American Jews

If you are, all you're doing is validating the argument that anti-Semites have been trying to make for decades.

[shaayecanaan]

199. YOU WILL FEEL OUR POWER!!!!

I got a good laugh out of that one old son.

Good luck with your meeting with all the other old farts. I hope the spandex suit still fits, maybe your old lady can let it out a little.

You reckon its time to bring back the JDL?

[Scootaloo]

52. Wow, we agree on something n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

68. thank you

[calimary]

70. THIS^^^^!!! Who the hell is he to tell us what to do or what to think?

Excuse me, is Bibi Netanyahu the King of America? Has he forgotten that he and his entire country over there are NOTHING without our help and financial support? Who else in the world is gonna keep funneling OUR tax money over there, shoveling PILES of weapons of all kinds their way with no hesitation or qualifications whatsoever? He is indeed a toddler - walking a St. Bernard/Great Dane/Newfoundland mix.

Sir, I like your suggestion VERY much!

And we HAVE to second-guess everything he says. We simply HAVE TO. In order to make informed decisions and policies, we HAVE TO get the full picture. We have to take into account the ENTIRE picture over there, not just what one party on one side says it is. We HAVE TO factor in other issues and dynamics. We HAVE TO. We can't just blindly give money and support and allegiance. We can't be doing that with ANY ally, under ANY circumstances.

And I will say too that I support Israel philosophically. I totally agree that Israel DOES have a right to exist and exist in peace. But in order to establish and sustain that, you simply HAVE TO take a whole lot of other issues and variables and conflicting agendas into account - and even accede to some of them.

[Aerows]

133. Arrogant asshole

He basically flipped off the US, President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry. If I had my way, we wouldn't send another nickel to him and his idiotic government. I don't blame Israelis anymore than I blame myself when Bush was in office doing stupid shit in my name, but I do blame Netanyahu.

[reACTIONary]

171. Yes, Agree (nt)

[jwirr]

230. Exactly. He is not very good at winning hearts and minds to say the least. That is OUR president he

is talking to.

[Jefferson23]

240. One can only hope at this point. +1. n/t

[Blue_Adept]

2. We are his puppet

You've seen the way our politicians dance to the tune there. They can do no wrong. As bad as it gets, nothing will change in policy here because, as we continue to see, there is no line that will be crossed that will be too far for us to change.

[whathehell]

9. But WHY?

That's the question. Surely they need us more than we need him

or even the state of Israel, itself, for that matter.

[JaydenD]

12. That is THE question, why is Israel's rwing allowed to call the shots.

[yurbud]

91. it could be they know where the our bodies are buried over there

they have probably helped our government with a lot of skullduggery that those in the Middle East and the US would be none to happy to hear about if it got out.

[ReRe]

165. That. AND the fact...

... that they have 50 nukes.

[2banon]

187. The number was 800 nuclear missiles several years ago.

back in 2002 ish. I would imagine that number would have increased by now, but certainly not reduced to 50. I mean I think we would have heard if Israel shot off all those missiles before now. I think.

[ReRe]

190. Thank you...

I just heard that number "50" in the last couple days or so on MSM. Sounded like a reasonable number to me at the time. (Must have been a Bibi minimalist propaganda factoid.) Wow. I didn't know this. Well, I guess that would pretty much blow us away, now wouldn't it?
It wouldn't surprise me if every single one of them are pointed at the USA. Thanks for the correction.

[2banon]

191. Israel denies the existence of nuclear weapons, and refuses inspection, refuses to sign agreements

The number "800" was reported by a former Israeli nuclear physicist-turned- whistleblower- Vanunu, (to the British media) several years ago, and thanks to the british press who then aided the Mossad in capturing Vanunu which led to several years in prison for exposing the existence of their nuclear programs which Israel denied/denies having.

I'm not surprised the press blatantly lies about their capabilities and possession of nuclear weapons, and to say they have only 50 is a perfect example of deliberate deception of facts.

here's a wiki link that gives a fairly extensive background on Israel's nuclear weapons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

Check out the Samson Option:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

A story relating to the whistleblower Vanunu:

http://electronicintifada.net/content/why-israel-still-afraid-mordechai-vanunu/5134

You will see in the first link that the numbers of missiles are impossible to verify, Carter said 300 or so, but no one outside of the facilities are able to verify exactly because they refuse to admit they have it.

[ReRe]

195. A+++++

This is why I love DU. I learn so much! Sampson Option. Hmmm. Whew... I imagine when you seen my post with "50" nukes, you lost your drink all over your monitor.

Again, thanks so much for the education!

[2banon]

218. It's perfectly understandable..

This matter has received very little notice in the media.. and just as you indicated, whenever it is mentioned (often as merely an "aside&quot the matter is significantly and quite deliberately downplayed at best, with a heaping spoonful of misinformation for added sugar coating.

It was way past my bedtime when I posted last night.. there's a whole lot more to the story of Mordechai Vanunu (and Israeli Nuclear Weapon programs) as you can see from the links I posted.

Mordechai Vanunu's story was my intro to Israeli Nuclear Weapons arsenal, on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now back a decade or so ago, reporting about his release from Israeli prison where he served 18 years in solitary confinement.

[ReRe]

252. The interview with Amy Goodman...

... is probably in the DemocracyNow archives. I'll go check.. I probably seen it, as I have watched Amy for ages.

[treestar]

264. We've created a monster

That explains a lot. If they are willing to kill us all if they don't get their own way.

[yurbud]

200. Those aren't a threat to us.

[ReRe]

201. How so?

Is there a little disclaimer on the side of each one that says "Never to be pointed at the USA" (since the USA paid for it?)

[yurbud]

248. Remember mutually assured destruction?

The Soviet Union had as many nukes as us and sometimes more but didn't date attack us because we would always have enough left to wipe them off the map.

The nuclear that to the US from any other country is even less some The most they could hope to gain from nuking us is taking out a city or two before their own country was burned off the map.

Leaders of other countries may be narcissists and sociopaths, but none have ever taken military action that had zero chance of a positive outcome for their country and a near 100 percent chance of resulting in the instant genocide of their own country.

Evil and stupid are not synonymous.

That is also why Israel is so worried about Iran getting nukes--not because they fear they would use them in a kamikaze attack on Israel but because Israel wold no longer be able to attack Iran with impunity.

[ReRe]

257. Oh yeah... I remember.

Looks like we still live in limbo, our lives in the hands of people who could care less whether we live or die. I think the Bibs has proven in the last three weeks that he is the one the world needs to worry about. Him and his heartless blood-hungry cabal. I can just imagine how Israeli citizens really feel. After all, they can't voice their opinion for fear of retaliation of some sort.

[yurbud]

260. Other countries leaders might not care if we live or die, but they care if they do

You don't accumulate power and wealth to piss it away on a futile gesture that will get you killed and remembered by history for epic, suicidal idiocy.

My point originally was that no one's nukes are a threat to us, especially since we are the only country that had a track record of actually using them.

[malaise]

238. This is part of the problem

it could be they know where the our bodies are buried over there

they have probably helped our government with a lot of skullduggery that those in the Middle East and the US would be none to happy to hear about if it got out.

[whathehell]

244. They have lots of bodies of their own to worry about, don't they?

Besides, how would they do threatening us?..Where would all their

support come from? -- Not from any other place in the world, at

least in big numbers.

[malaise]

249. True

but they sure have been mouthing Obama. Apparently they don't care

[whathehell]

253. Yep

and it's true that they may not care, but then we shouldn't either.

[calimary]

96. Welcome to DU, JaydenD!

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2014, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Glad you're here. As you can see, this is one of the stickiest wickets we're all discussing! One might well also ask why America's wrong-wing is allowed to call the shots, too. Even though they did NOT win the White House, and there are a million more Americans who voted Democratic in the last election but that didn't count because republi-CON state legislatures tilted the playing field with their gerrymandering. Especially since our forces were evidently asleep at the switch when it came to looking anywhere beyond the Beltway. All the DNC's focus was on national elections and they neglected much-needed emphasis on state politics. They weren't paying as much attention. And in a KEY election - on the DECADE mark (2010) - allowed the bad guys to capture majorities in multiple state legislatures AND more often than not, the available governorships that were up for grabs that year. And with the GOP in firm control at the state level, you suddenly had the honor and authority to redraw districts - in THEIR hands. And they used it strategically. And our side got rolled.

On the decade mark - midterm elections or not - WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT AT THE STATE LEVEL!!! We CANNOT afford to let governors' mansions fall into enemy hands. We CANNOT afford to allow state legislatures turn red, sometimes blood red. There are too many state assemblies and senates that are SO red that there aren't enough Democrats to head off ANY of the damage they can - AND WILL - do.

Thank you debbie (wasserman-schultz). LOVE those blinders you wear! Keep it all inside the fucking Beltway. And watch your President whom you DO succeed in re-electing (and all of us who supported him from coast-to-coast) get hosed at the state level on policy issue after policy issue after policy issue.

[olegramps]

203. The control of local and state politics trumps the federal.

The Republicans began a very brilliant campaign at the lowest levels of government. Much of their efforts were aided and abetted by right wing churches. They began at the local level especially taking aim a school boards, city government and expanded their campaign to the state level while the Democrats slept. Many of those in charge are dedicated zealots that are single purposed creatures. I can understand the apparent apathy of many liberals who are not driven to accomplish their goals with an equal zeal. Their organizing was brought to my attention by an relative whose daughter had joined a fundamental church and began espousing extreme right with views. At his urging we attended several fundamental church functions and I can assure that they are dedicated to expanding their influence. Their dedication to getting their candidates elected is admirable for its effectiveness. It is difficult to equal their effectiveness when religious convictions are wedded to political goals.

[calimary]

231. I remember that. I remember how ralph reed the extremist religious activist

back in the 80s exhorted his minions to run for school board seats. Run for the low-hanging fruit at the local level. An easier and cheaper in. But once you're in, you can start building. Build yourself a power base, build yourself an expanding group of allies and friends, supporters and then campaign donors, and you can start climbing the ladder to higher and higher office and more and more power and influence. And our side? Many - FAR TOO MANY - laughed at this little pipsqueak who looked like an aging choir boy. He had a round, clean-shaven, young, straight-outta-Mayfield-USA-where-Beaver-Cleaver-lived face. He was head of what I think was the so-called "Christian Coalition." He used the reagan landslide to slither into more prominence, himself. He was all over TV. If david gregory had had a show back then, HE would have been more regular a guest than john mccain is now. He was SUPER dangerous. His message was lethal to everything liberal and truly and genuinely democratic with a small D. And he had religion on his side. He was a religious extremist and worked hand-in-hand with the whole jerry falwell "Moral Majority" movement. And they gained prominence and media-darlinghood during reagan. reagan. And they pushed that agenda like nobody's business, as reagan and his cohorts were eagerly working the evangelical backwaters of this country, winning converts, fired-up-with religious-fervor activists, and relentlessly reliable groups of voters (also driven by their near-Apocalyptic religious fervor. A near-Apocalyptic FEVER, too, if you ask me.

reagan. We have SOOOOO much to thank him for.

The Root of All Evil. HAH! "Root" and "reagan" begin with an "R".

[olegramps]

235. They are not only radical, but exclusionary.

Anyone within their congregation who does toe the line is shunned and driven out. This can be devastating since for the majority of these people their church association dominates their social lives. I found the whole affair stifling since they attend these church functions several times a week. I witnessed that during their political campaigns they handed out slates of their chosen candidates and got firm commitments that the member would show up and vote. Many people are just unaware of what is going on in many of these maga-churches and the control that they exert over their membership.

[calimary]

242. Those folks literally scare the bejeezus outta me.

No joke, either. Just a rather timely pun.

[sabrina 1]

178. Yes, that is the question that needs to be answered. If any other head of state were

to insult, attack, and order around the President of the US, can you imagine what the reaction would be?

So what does Israel have on this Govt? Are we stashing Nukes there, or what? It just makes no sense. It's as if our government is terrified of this small, foreign nation for some reason.

[dembotoz]

76. the evangelicals on the right will support him no matter what and the left has no balls

and the thug is isreal knows this

[stillwaiting]

118. The left has balls, but the ELECTED "left" is corrupt. Lots of the aid goes to big business. nt

[magical thyme]

117. in the past, they have apparently threatened to take down the west if they don't get their way

They have the nukes to take out the major european cities and have threatened to do so.

That is the only reason I can fathom that we give them billions and let them run our country.

[whathehell]

140. Israel has threatened to "take down" the West?

Seriously, do you have any links to that?...Friggin' A.

[magical thyme]

144. I haven't been able to find the original article I saw, but here is another one

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepalestinians.bookextracts

The threatening of wild, irrational violence, in response to political pressure, has been an Israeli impulse from the very earliest days. It was first authoritatively documented, in the 1950s, by Moshe Sharett, the dovish Prime Minister, who wrote of his Defence Minister, Pinhas Lavon, that he 'constantly preached for acts of madness' or 'going crazy' if ever Israel were crossed. Without a 'just, comprehensive and lasting' peace which only America can bring to pass, Israel will remain at least as likely a candidate as Iran, and a far more enduring one, for the role of 'nuclear-crazy' state....

...In this situation, he went on, more and more Israelis were coming to regard the 'transfer' of the Palestinians as the only salvation; resort to it was growing 'more probable' with each passing day. Sharon 'wants to escalate the conflict and knows that nothing else will succeed'.

But would the world permit such ethnic cleansing? 'That depends on who does it and how quickly it happens. We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'"

In the article I saw a couple days before Hooptiewagon linked to this one, several capital cities of Europe, I think Paris, Vienna and others, were spelled out and the context was a discussion with Nixon.

[ReRe]

167. Hundreds of nukes?

Well, hell, no effing wonder we kowtow to them!

[whathehell]

206. I'm betting we have more. n/t

[JAbuchan08]

212. True

Just one nuke will ruin your day though - not to mention 800.

[whathehell]

247. True, but do you really think Israel would threaten us?..who's going

to pony up the big bucks if we're not around?

[JAbuchan08]

277. Mostly I think Israel's nukes are meant to act as a deterrent

both to Arab aggression but also against any attempt by an international coalition to enforce any kind of ruling on the peace process militarily. That isn't to say a strike against the US by Israel is probable, but it's also not impossible. For the most part Israel is out for itself.

[whathehell]

278. You're probably right. n/t

[reACTIONary]

175. The source of the bold quote in the above post is...

The source of the bold quote in the above post is...

That, at least, is the pessimistic opinion of Martin van Creveld, professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

No one who actually knew how many nukes Israel possesses would, or would be allowed, to make that information public. IMHO, this is bull shit.

[2banon]

189. There have been many, many, documents and reports leaked to the press

over the past several decades of Israel's nuclear weapons programs, capabilities, "acquired" materials, and ambitions as well as documentation of numbers of nuclear warheads, though Israel continues to deny existence.. all of this known to the press, intelligence and governments everywhere.

Am I misunderstanding your comments?

[reACTIONary]

232. I don't think there is any doubt about...

... the fact that Israel possess nuclear weapons.

One post in this thread says 50. The Wikipeda page states "Estimates as to the size of the Israeli nuclear arsenal vary between 75 and 400 nuclear warheads." Those are estimates, and cover a pretty wide range to have been based on "documentation of numbers of nuclear warheads".

The source of the quote is "Martin van Creveld, professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem" - and yet it contains no qualification or other indication that the number of nuclear warheads is not publicly known, is merely an estimate, and that these estimates are subject to wide variation. As a historian I would have expected him to say something like "perhaps in the hundreds".

Maybe I'm just sensitive to such locutions, but that immediately sets off my bull shit detector.

The article itself is characterize by the Guardian (the publisher) as "a personal and highly controversial view of the current crisis in the Middle East". Not exactly an expression of full faith and confidence. And, by the way, "the current crisis" is not actually "the current crisis" we are discussing since the article was published over 10 years ago. And is based on a book that was published 25 years before that.

The original contention that I was responding to is that Israel has threatened to use its nuclear capability to "take out the major European cities". That's ridiculous.

[Buns_of_Fire]

188. Google "Samson Option". nt

[reACTIONary]

174. That is absolutely ridiculous. As well as impossible...

... who do you think set up that "iron dome" thingy for them?

[treestar]

266. Makes them more like the Soviets of old than any "ally"

[fbc]

142. Because Democrats are afraid to lose Jewish support in the US.

And Republicans just like bombing.

[2banon]

186. A week or so a go, DU was informed that Israel receives funding from the EU as well

The claim from our congress critters that we're Israel's only source of support, has been working for decades, but that meme needs to be put to rest asap, as well as an end to continued funding military operations etc.

[Violet_Crumble]

155. No, it's not a puppet thing. Here's a quick analogy that struck me about the US/Israel relationship.

Most of us have met them. Those parents who are so blinded to any faults of their child that they end up feeding their child's bad behaviour. According to them, their precious child can do no wrong, even though precious takes to bullying other kids at school and stealing things that don't belong to them. All that's fine with the parent, who ignores it and accuses the parents of the bullied kids of hating precious. But when other kids react by trying to belt up precious to try to get their things back, the parent goes into full-on complain mode, whining about how everyone's hating on precious and bullying their child. They take precious home, where precious has a temper tantrum and breaks furniture because the parent dared to ask them to go clean their room, and reward them by raising their pocket money to an astronomical level and teaching them how to use a gun, coz after all it's all about self-defence...

If the US stopped being such a doting parent and stopped unconditionally supporting everything Israel does, then Israel would eventually get the message and hopefully start to change...

[MineralMan]

4. He may well live to regret that demand.

[whathehell]

11. I certainly hope so.

I don't want to see any harm come to the Israeli people, but he is

appalling.

[randys1]

48. Our President is Black, to some people that means you can talk down to him..

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. I was about to say the same thing....Netanyahu

he thinks most Americans do not respect a Black President any more than he does...thus he feels comfortable speaking like that....

[randys1]

216. Yep...

[2banon]

220. Bibi is a straight up-in your face arrogant RACIST..

So arrogant, that he doesn't give a damn who knows it. Kind of like the KKK.

He and Dick Cheney could be joined at the hip. If Swamp Dog was still around, I could imagine some great lizard graphics of these evil cretins.

[rudolph the red]

196. What a cheap, thoughtless remark

[randys1]

217. yes indeed, what Netanyahu said was exactly that

[malaise]

5. Two old proverbs

Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are.

Hang out with dogs and catch fleas.

[PAProgressive28]

6. He's their Bush

In reality his views don't represent every single Israeli but he makes them look bad around the world. I think I saw 85% support him now. That number will go down but the people have to realize it before he can do more damage like Bush did before people finally realized he was an idiot.

[whathehell]

8. So it seems..

I don't understand his high degree of support, I really do not.

[BlueMTexpat]

43. Keep in mind the massive influx of Jews from former SSRs to Israel since 1989.

Most sabras - whose policies were decidedly more measured - are outnumbered by recent RW immigrants.

[potone]

67. I think that is prettty simple.

Think of the way that most Americans rallied around Bush after 9/11. Never mind that his policies were disastrous, we all felt under threat. Israelis must feel the same way, even though the Hamas rockets seem to be fairly ineffectual. Israeli public opinion has been moving to the right for a number of years, due, I suspect, in no small part to the Likud party's insistence that they have no partner for peace on the Palestinian side. The truth is a lot more complicated, as always in that part of the world.

[passiveporcupine]

125. No we didn't

Think of the way that most Americans rallied around Bush after 9/11. Never mind that his policies were disastrous, we all felt under threat.

A lot of Americans did not want the war with Iraq. We knew it was based on lies, and while we were devastated by the acts of 9/11, we were not living in fear. But we are just the little people. I'm still disgusted with the dems in Washington who sided with Bush on going into Iraq (like Clinton).

For anyone who fails to understand what is going on in Israel/Palestine today, Peter Brienart wrote a wonderfully thought out piece on it. Everyone should read this, if they are the least bit interested in understanding why this situation continues without any hope of finding a solution.

http://peter-beinart.com/israel/haaretz-what-american-jews-havent-been-told-about-gaza/

This article may have been posted here before. My apologies if it has. I did not see it.

[Patiod]

211. The US did rally around Bush. You and I may not have, but the rest of the country did

In the time of national crisis following the September 11 attacks, polls showed approval ratings of greater than 85%, peaking in at 92%, and a steady 80–90% approval for about four months after the attacks

I was a proud 10%er, and that isolation eventually led me to DU.

Having said that, thanks for the link - others may have seen it, but I did not. There's a young guy at my office who grew up in Israel, and it's interesting to hear what he has to say about the current situation - he's surprisingly conflicted (100% pro-Israel, and 100% anti-Hamas, but not a huge fan of Bibi'si)

[sabrina 1]

45. More like their Cheney.

[Uncle Joe]

130. I agree, sabrina, Netanyahu and Cheney are two political clones. n/t

[2banon]

222. yes exactly... Dick & Bibi

I miss Swamp Dog's fabulous lizard graphics from the old days on du..

[Uncle Joe]

237. Whatever happened to Swampy?

I haven't seen him in a while.

[2banon]

221. I think of Cheney when I think of Bibi

they're all in the same evil, vile, racist club.

[Autumn]

10. Obama to Netanyahu.. fuck off asshole, I do what I need to do, get a job and support your own wars.

In a folksy polite way of course. Well a girl can dream.

[whathehell]

15. I Love It!

Especially the 'folksy polite way', LOL.

Wish it WOULD happen...Obama's not as quick to kow tow to Israel

and Yahoo as other administrations, like Dubya's, have been, and he's

not running for office again, so lets both hope.

[Autumn]

54. Obama is an important leader of the free world. He does not have to tolerate

a little tin horn shit head whatever that jerks title is, telling him what he has to do and being so damn disrespectful. I find that so offensive, as I would if any other countries leader tried telling our President what he can or can not do. Obama tried to use diplomacy to stop this and that's a good thing.

[m-lekktor]

47. lol nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

99. but Obama isn't saying anything like that.

He voiced the admins support just days ago and had harsh words for Hamas.

[Autumn]

114. That's where a girl can dream part came in.

[totodeinhere]

182. Dream on, but instead Obama will sign that $225 military aid bill to Israel that

Congress passed today. It passed the House 395-8.

[Iamthetruth]

13. What bothers you more

That fact that he is right, that hamas is a terrorist organization that uses Palestinians as tools so advance their agenda, or is it that he dares stand up to this Country because he puts his own people first?

Before you trash the Israeli leader maybe you should go live in Israel and live under constant threat that hamas only wants one thing, to kill every Jew no matter where they live, not just in Israel. As a Jew that makes me an enemy of hamas, for what. If some ignorant, hate filled, low IQ, murderous, stone age organization main reason for existence is to kill you, you would do well to understand them and know them well. That is what Netanyahu does, he knows the people that want to kill everyone he represents. He understands there will never be peace with hamas, they don't want it. Not only Netanyahu but Egypt, Jordan and pretty much every other Islamic nation that is not a holocaust denying nation agree with him.

If I were Netanyahu I would do the same thing, he was elected by the Israeli people, not the American people.

[Spazito]

21. "He was elected by the Israeli people, not the American people" ...

yet he comes hat in hand for millions and millions of American taxpayers' dollars. Are you saying 'Americans should shut up and just keep sending those millions'?

[Iamthetruth]

25. I'm pretty sure he does not come hat in hand

You may want to think that but I'm sure it goes both ways. There is a huge Jewish lobby in the Country that overwhelmingly gives to the Democratic party. Pull support from Israel and watch how fast that money dries up.

If we all got to chose where our tax money went trust me on this, there are a lot of things on both sides that would never see a dime.

[Spazito]

35. Yes, he does, he comes to the US to lobby for that money and does it on a regular...

basis. As to the "huge Jewish lobby", lobbyists of all stripes, including the Jewish lobby, are what is wrong with the political system, buying politicians votes for causes politicians would be unlikely to support were they to be principled instead of for sale.

Netanyahu is as dangerous to Israel as is Hamas, imo. His actions are beginning to make Israel a pariah in the eyes of more and more of the world community. The harm he is doing to Israel is incalculable, imo.

[Iamthetruth]

40. I agree 100%

on your view of lobbyist, I dislike that establishment as well. However it exists and is very powerful and to think that ALL POLITICIANS are not aware of its money and power would be foolish. Do you really think Obama likes Israel, its my opinion he can't stand Israel but he is a politician first.

[Spazito]

49. President Obama doesn't care for Netanyahu, you are conflating his tense relationship with...

him as meaning "he can't stand Israel", you are wrong. One can detest Netanyahu and still care about Israel and the Israeli people, both Jewish and Arab Israelis, your post seems to indicate you don't understand that concept.

[Iamthetruth]

57. Oh I understand the concept

You however I believe struggle. All Jews have a tie to Israel, it does not matter where you live. To understand Israel's stance in this war you have to have a feeling of the history of the Jewish people. The leader of Israel has a burden on him like most leaders would know. We in American don't live with thought that there is a group of people within firing distance that have it in their constitution or charter for not only the destruction of the country but for the elimination of their people. Just like every politicians takes an oath to uphold the constitution of the United State, Netanyahu takes an oath to protect his people.

hamas does not want peace with Israel, hamas will never want peace with Israel. Netanyahu knows this and lives with it everyday, as does the Israeli people. To not recognize it is to deny what hamas stands for. To not recognize hamas for what it is makes Israel weaker.

[Spazito]

60. I don't buy into 'you have to be Jewish to understand' at all, ties to one's country no matter...

where they may live is not unique to Jews, Arabs, Americans, Palestinians, Canadians, etc. A love of country doesn't mean one needs be nationalistic as well. I love my country but will not defend indefensible actions done by my country, I will condemn it. Holding those in my country to account for indefensible actions IS loving my country and protecting it from those within who would destroy it.

Israel has state of the art weaponry, including nuclear weapons while Hamas has crudely made rockets. Israel will survive and thrive, the innocent civilians in Gaza are the people in jeopardy.

I have condemned the actions of Hamas and I condemn the actions of Netanyahu as well. My sympathies are with the innocent civilians.

[The Magistrate]

66. The Problem With That Boiler-Plate, Sir, Is This

There is absolutely no reason to believe that a Likud government in Israel is any more interested in peace with the people of Arab Palestine than the leadership and militants of Hamas are in peace with Israel.

It has been evident for some years the actual policy of the present government of Israel is one of de facto annexation of the portions of the Jordan valley over-run in '67, or in short, a policy of 'one land between the river and the sea', without great dissimilarity to the banner the most militant of Arab Palestinians fly. There would be some difference in detail of outcome; a Hamas victory would be accompanied by massacre and rapid flight, a Likud victory would feature less immediate killing and a more gradual departure of the defeated, but these are differences of style and sophistication more than differences of kind. Both sides at present are aiming for a peace of victory, in which the defeated can have no part or presence. Partisans on both sides need to understand this, and to face up to it squarely, particularly when engaged in slanging the character and motive of their opponents.

At some point in a fight, one must begin to assess capabilities as well as motives, to examine whether one or another of the parties are capable of doing what they clearly intend. The fact that someone, even an obviously angry someone, has shouted 'I'll kill you!' does not really justify my breaking his arm and several ribs, especially if he is not actually armed with more than a pocket knife and spotting me thirty pounds of muscle and a half foot in reach and many years of practice. If I did something like that, I would not expect a police sergeant surveying the scene to believe I was really in fear for my life, and would expect to be arrested and face some charge greater than misdemeanor battery.

It is a fact that Hamas lacks the capability to do serious harm to Israel, let alone destroy Israel, and that is so even if it intends to destroy Israel and its leaders and militants go to sleep each night dreaming of destroying Israel.

It is a fact that Israel does have the capability to maintain occupation of the Cis-Jordan indefinitely, and has the capability to complete its de facto annexation of that area, and constriction of the existence of its Arab population to the point the bulk of them give it up and depart.

Success in the latter endeavor is no more right and just than success in the former.

[potone]

77. Yes, I agree.

And the best way to weaken Palestinian public support for Hamas is for Israel to offer the Palestinian people a just settlement that they can live with. Right now the people of Gaza are trapped in an open-air prison, and have been for years. I can understand why they are fighting back, as self-defeating as it may seem. If world opinion shifts to their side, the loss of lives may well be worth it to them. The whole situation is tragic and heart-breaking beyond words, and I am disgusted that we are continuing to supply Israel with military equipment in the current circumstances.

[malokvale77]

135. What a load of crap...

Keep up that line of propaganda and watch how fast the tide turns.

[The Magistrate]

42. You Do Not Seem To Have Much Understanding Of Our Politics, Sir

It is a fact most Jews support the Democratic Party, and Jewish donors ( with some conspicuous exceptions like the gambling maven Adelson ) mostly give to the Democratic Party. But this is because their views on domestic policy, on matters of social welfare and personal rights and economic and ecological matters, are best represented by Democrats, and are utterly hostile to the platform of the Republicans. If Jews voted and donated even mostly on the question of policy towards Israel, the most hard-line conservatives of the Republican party would enjoy the greatest degree of support from Jews in the United States, and manifestly they do not. Jews in the United States mostly support a two-state solution to the conflict, mostly do not support Likud and the more extreme right and Orthodox parties which make up its governing coallition, and would welcome stern steps from a U.S. government that produced progress towards a negotiated solution. It is a sad fact that the situation has so greatly deteriorated over a decade and more of rightist rule in Israel that its government cannot be presumed more interested in a negotiated peace than the leadership of Hamas today.

[calimary]

86. Welcome to DU, Iamthetruth!

Glad you're here! I would certainly agree with your point - there IS a huge and powerful Jewish lobby in this country. Large and rather potent Jewish community near where I live. I actually heard an older woman at one of the local shops in that area, years ago, when dubya was "president" talking politics with a couple of other ladies. And they all disliked bush, and leaned liberal in their general outlook. I think this was before the 2004 election, as I recall. But this one woman voiced something I'll never forget because it was so instructive. "bush has been a terrible president. The war... the economy... terrible! BUT - he's been VERY GOOD for ISRAEL!" I remember thinking - wow - I'm hearing a very valuable lesson being articulated here. An example of a one-issue voter. This lady was going to vote to reelect george w bush exclusively because he was "VERY GOOD for ISRAEL!" REGARDLESS how shitty a president she thought he was on all the other issues, otherwise. THAT ALONE was enough to win her vote.

This was a really valuable lesson for me, as an observer. I'll never forget it. It was really illuminating. And hey, I TOO am a one-issue voter. What always will tip the balance for me is whether a politician is pro-choice or not. If they aren't, I don't care what else they're for (even when it's other critically important issues on which I strongly agree). If they aren't pro-choice, they don't get my vote. Period. It's simply a non-starter. And it was highly instructive and illuminating to me to hear that same attitude I myself had, personally, articulated by another voter based on an entirely different litmus test.

[ablamj]

105. So one question, if you don't mind...

If there was only one candidate who was pro-choice, but he or she also happened to be Bush-like on everything else, that candidate would get your vote? I'm not judging, I'm truly just curious. And I understand that you wouldn't like the other views of that candidate. And that this whole question is rather absurd because I doubt there would ever be this situation. I really just want to understand. I have never met someone who is such a one issue voter as that woman you mention and yourself. It boggles my mind that, assuming she is an American, she doesn't care what happens to this country as long as Israel is taken care of. Your one issue makes more sense because at least it affects us here in America. As far as my answer to the absurd question I asked, I don't know what I would do. I would really hate to vote for that candidate, but I would hate for women not to have choice. It's a tough one.

[calimary]

112. Well, first of all, welcome to DU to YOU, TOO, ablamj!

Glad you're here. That's a GREAT question. I'd have to look at that seriously. However, it's hard to imagine any candidate who WOULD be pro-choice and bush-like on everything else. It just doesn't follow, at least in my experience. I've certainly not seen it. If a candidate is pro-choice, it is FAR more likely that they would NOT be bush-like in other things. There's a general mind-set working here. They would be far more likely NOT to stand with climate change deniers, they'd be far more likely NOT to support war-first/ask-questions-later. They'd be far more likely to support a social safety net. They'd be far more likely to support marriage equality, and income equality, and voters rights. I'd have to look. I'd have to look more closely.

Mainly - is there a D or an R after their name? If there's a D, it's more likely than not - that the mere fact of a D means that the Democratic caucus is increased by one. Unless they go stealth and change parties after they're elected. But adding yet another D means that might give our overall Democratic caucus that much more clout. Might make the difference between the Rs grabbing the majority or being kept out of power. When the Ds are in control, THEY set the agenda. THEY decide what gets voted on and what stays stuck in committee-hell. THEY determine what legislation advances and what doesn't. So I'd have to look at that.

I'd also have to look at - who's funding them? Who's endorsing them? Who appears with them at campaign events? Who's advising them? WHICH MEANS: who's coming into office WITH them if they win? Who will have their ear, or be their advisors, either on staff or behind the scenes. Who will influence them on policy issues once they gain power? Who will the winning candidate turn to for advice on the issues? WHO will get his/her attention, and get their calls returned or their requests acted upon?

Once I've done that, with any given candidate, I would decide. But if you say you're pro-choice, you certainly get my attention. And then I look deeper. But I've noticed a mind-set in operation here. Those who tend to think liberally on a woman's right to choose also tend to think liberally on other issues I care about when I go to vote. Granted, not always. For example, I supported Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota because I wanted another D in there. And I was happy to do so. And she won and she's a Senator now. But then she came out with that damn statement after the Newtown massacre about how the holy goddam second amendment meant nobody had the right to take away somebody's "right" to own massacre machines, and I had a FIT! I called her office in Washington and complained. And I had NO trouble telling them I was from California and I realize she's from North Dakota, so I'm not her immediate constituent - HOWEVER, she was VERY happy to take my California money when her campaign sent emails around begging for campaign donations. So I felt, AS AN UNDERWRITER OF HER CAMPAIGN (the kind of donations without which she might NOT be in that Senate seat today), that she STILL had to pay attention to what I want, and I DO INDEED have a say in how she votes in the Senate.

You just have to study and be aware of what is beneath the surface, and what's (and WHO'S) behind the curtain. And sometimes you win and sometimes you don't. You make the best and most informed decision you can. In her case, well, it's better to have a D in there than an R, and it helped us keep the Senate in the blue column. But I'm not happy about her love of wanton access to any damn guns you want, and I'm gonna have to think long and hard about that when she's up for reelection. And depending on what the dynamics are at the time (like, could we afford to lose a Senate seat because we're otherwise in solid shape - so I then don't feel compelled to contribute to her campaign?) I'd have to make a decision then. That said, Heidi Heitkamp is pro-choice. So, for me, that remains a big point in her favor.

[malokvale77]

131. Fuck that shit

Let them move their money to the Republicans. See where that gets them. Current day Republicans are the biggest haters of all times.

They love "Jews" about as much as they love "those of color".

Let them go there.

[whathehell]

31. Yup, so let him get his money from THEM. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

22. That right-wing mass murderer can stand up to America all he wants

I just hope that our country realizes that we need to cut off funding for Netanyahue's mass murder and start voting against Israel at the UN. Our nation can not support those who bomb hospitals and schools and murder over a thousand innocent civilians.

[Iamthetruth]

26. Mass Murderer????

Do you know that President Obama's drone campaign has killed more people than the number of Palestinians have died in Gaza during this recent war? Are you willing to call our President a mass murderer?

[Bjorn Against]

39. I have been very harshly critical of Obama's drone policy

Obama's drone policy is wrong, but I am not going to let you change the topic here because as wrong as Obama's drone policy it is, it is not equivalent to what Netanyahu is engaging in.

Netanyahu has blocaded the entire Gaza strip and keeping essential goods from the people of Gaza, he even regulates the amount of food they have access to. He is targetting hospitals, schools, flattening entire neighborhoods. He has targeted essential infrastructure such as the electric plants and the water supplies, he has prevented the people of Gaza from travelling outside of their walled in area. There is no excuse for what Netanyahu is doing, and yes I stand by my words. He is a mass murderer.

[yurbud]

23. they must be geniuses at using their own people since the Israelis kill so many of them

and they are good at time travel since Israel killed Palestinians way back in 1948 before there was a Hamas.

[Iamthetruth]

30. Where you has outraged

During the Black September when Jordan killed nearly 20,000 Palestinians? Or let me guess, you were outraged in 1977 when Lebanon killed 5,000 Palestinians. Just curious.

[Maedhros]

102. Pro-Likud propaganda.

/ignore list.

[Iamthetruth]

263. Truth hurt

Just keep saying it didn't happen, that should make you feel better.

[yurbud]

115. I was 5 and 12 then. Also, does the fact that others killed Palestinians make it justifiable now?

Did we give massive military aid to those countries that they used almost exclusively to do those killings?

[malokvale77]

145. Good argument there

Somebody else did this so we can do something more despicable. The best part is, we're doing it on America's dime.

In the mean time, most people I know are suffering. Bet that brings a smile to your face.

Love to you too.

[Iamthetruth]

265. What it proves

Is as long as Israel does it, certain people will be outraged. Hmmm, what is the word for that?

[whathehell]

24. You've created a false binary situation..

Hamas IS a terrorist organization -- but the CHILDREN are not "Hamas"

and what they've been doing is obvious "overkill", and the whole WORLD

is recognizing and condemning it as such.

As to your second question.

"That fact that he is right, that hamas is a terrorist organization that uses Palestinians as tools so advance their agenda, or is it that he dares stand up to this Country because he puts his own people first"?

It doesn't bother me that he "puts his people first"..What bothers me

is he doesn't do it on his own DIME...You want to lecture us? -- Do it

with your OWN money, or treat us with the RESPECT and GRATITUDE we

deserve!

[PatSeg]

55. Netanyahu thinks he is a puppet master

and the U.S. is his puppet, as well as his piggy bank. He has repeatedly insulted our president, our vice president, and now our Secretary of State. Of course, he still took our money and arms!

“I know what America is, America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction.”

The Israeli people need to get their leader under control.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. And, Bibi generously commits war crimes to give Hamas good PR. Right?

[louis-t]

38. The question I have for you and every other person

that spouts the 'boo-hoo for Israel' line is: What do you think caused the deep-seated hatred for Jews in that region? Why would they want to wipe Israel off the map? Do you think it is something that Palestinians are born with? Is it genetic? Or do you think it is because they have had most of their land stolen from them, not allowed to have any control over their future, not allowed outside of areas that Israel dictates, and had their neighborhoods demolished to build Israeli settlements?
I don't know who started this conflict 65 years ago and neither do you. But it seems Netanyahu's goal is the same as Hamas: to completely obliterate the other side.

[sabrina 1]

51. And Obama was elected by the American people, not the Israeli people. So what is your

point? We elected Obama by a large majority to STOP supporting these brutal Right Wing policies here and everywhere else.

I assume Netanyahu is going to refuse the billions of dollars he gets from the American people every year? Otherwise he doesn't get to order OUR elected leaders around on ANYTHING.

[intaglio]

75. Have you thought about going to Gaza and living under constant threat?

Have you thought for even one instant that a minuscule terrorist group requires the disproportionate response given by the IDF? Have you even bothered (as I have) to find out that Israeli claims about human shields are just so much propaganda? Do you support the commission of war crimes by the IDF?

[Comrade Grumpy]

90. Let the Israeli people, who elected Netanyahu, pay for his massacres. Not us.

Or maybe you and your "not 1%" buddies at the synagogue can pay for it.

[gaspee]

107. Great - so

Can my tax dollars stop supporting the Israelis? Especially since they all get state health care so many Americans don't.

No more of my tax dollars to Israel!

[JI7]

143. he admitted Israel was not under threat when Planes were suspended from landing there

[LordGlenconner]

163. He can do what he wants

But not on our dime and with our support. I think that's the rub for a lot of people and justifiably so.

[yurbud]

16. How many allies talk to us like this?

[whathehell]

29. NONE...and what allies does Israel have besides the US?

Few and Far between, I'd say...Shit, we even endanger our OWN

country supporting them...It's time to cut the cord, at least to this

present regime.

[Jeff Murdoch]

56. Ask Noriega how well that goes over.

[calimary]

88. Good point.

[whathehell]

246. Explain, please.

I don't know what you are talking about.

[yurbud]

89. It can only happen when leaders of major Jewish organizations give the government cover

[MisterP]

81. Trujillo used to

[yurbud]

87. The guy whose plane blew up?

I don't think any Israeli leader will get that treatment.

[MisterP]

92. that's Torrijos (or maybe Roldós)

the CIA dumped him after only ONE American was gunned down
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Trujillo

[yurbud]

94. that sounds like an excuse not a reason. Elsewhere, Americans can be raped and killed

and DC didn't give a rat's ass.

Or in the case of Israel, they could attack one of our ships and kill a couple of dozen soldiers without repercussions.

[malokvale77]

146. That in fact...

was my personal turning point.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Two points: Our money + our weapons/ammo mean we get some say

in what they do. That's the whole point--it's not just to support an ally, it's to have some input. It's thoroughly unrealistic for Netanyahu to expect us to keep silent on civilian deaths and destruction, while still forking over the ammo and cash.

Also, Kerry should have left it alone for a while after the first cease-fire bid collapsed. Israel really lashed out at him, but other countries (and Abbas) as well--his manic attempts to secure a cease-fire are proving to be misguided and are costing him diplomatic capital that he really can't spare, given the failure of the peace process that ate up most of his tenure thus far. Know when to pull back a little, and then move in again when the time is right.

[sadoldgirl]

19. Fine, Bibi,

Just don't ask us for money or weapons again either. Go it alone then by all means.

[whathehell]

27. +1,0000 n/t

[raindaddy]

46. Exactly

When you're still living off your parents and think you're above their council, time to cut the apron strings and truly become the "independent" state of Israel.

[malokvale77]

148. Good analogy

I've been arguing that point with my grandson for some months.

[Marrah_G]

20. He is an evil, evil person

[TwilightGardener]

28. I don't believe he is. He's head of a small country in a volatile region that has

very real enemies, so being staunch, uncompromising and militaristic is a political win for him in a country where there's lots of anxiety and a permanent "us against the world" mentality. It worked here for a while after 9/11, too. In the long run, though, it's not helping Israel, just as it didn't help us.

[WinkyDink]

71. His brother was killed rescuing the Entebbe passengers in Uganda. Care to guess the perpetrators?

You DO know that Bibi is a graduate of a US high school, right? (Class of '67, same as me.)

He knows America.

[malokvale77]

151. So?

Does that some how make him special and beyond reproach?

There are a lot of evil assholes graduated from our schools.

How does this even matter?

[unblock]

33. there's a whole mess of wrong to spread among both sides of this conflict. it's hardly one-sided

apparently israel said hamas was not to be trusted regarding agreeing to a sticking to the terms of a cease-fire, then a cease-fire was broken after just two hours with the abducting of an israeli soldier.

i take all war reporting, particularly in this region, with a big grain of salt, but assuming this sequence to be true, blaming netanyahu for his choice of words is a very petty thing to complain. would everyone be ok with "i told you so" or is that insufficiently deferential to america as well?


as i said, there's plenty of wrong on both sides here; i think if you want to bash netanyahu, there are far better targets than this.

[whathehell]

116. "Blaming Netanyahu for his choice of words is a very petty thing to compalin" about

Oh sure, requesting simple RESPECT for the BILLIONS of dollars

we Americans have given, and continue to give Israel, even at the

expense of our OWN national security, is asking waaaay too much '

"deference" from this arrogant fuck -- You must be KIDDING!

"Choice of words" my ass. Israel, under this prick, at least,

is ready to NUKE countries simply FOR their "choice of words"

e.g. "I don't recognize the right of Israel to exist".

Who do you think you're playing "clueless" with?

[unblock]

119. sure, go ahead and ignore the fact that he's right.

anyone who doesn't acknowledge that both sides are wrong, often very wrong, in this mess, is being either disingenuous or worse.

netanyahu, in this particular case, has a valid point. he said hamas wouldn't stick to a cease-fire and he turned out to be right.

taking his words in isolation and railing against them as if there was no context is at the very least completely one-sided.

moreover, the very complaint -- that his words here are arrogant -- is pretty pathetic because everyone here seems to want him to bow to the great united states because of all our money and aid.

from the complaints here, it's not that he's being arrogant, it's that he's being uppity and not bowing low enough before us.

[whathehell]

139. No, sorry, I don't see a lot of support for that "fact" here.

Good try on the "uppity" thing, though..Yeah, poor oppressed Bibi, LOL!

Sorry, bro, but I doubt your attempt to compare him to Obama

fighting the American Right will play here -- He's the Israeli Right

It seems your loyalties to this fascist are stronger than they are

to your own country --- Pathetic.

[unblock]

149. i have no loyalty at all to netanyahu. i'm not a fan of the right-wing either here or there.

and it is complete and utter bullshit to go from a simple analysis of a one-liner to an accusation of disloyalty to america. you're more than welcome to think i'm very wrong on this one point, but talk about going nuclear!

i don't go around accusing people i disagree with of being disloyal to america. that is not at all a cool rhetorical tactic.

[whathehell]

156. LOL...You've been defending his arrogant, disrespectful comments

To our country's leaders in every post..Good luck trying to back off now.

[unblock]

160. good god, commenting on one comment and suddenly i'm disloyal to america?

there is absolutely nothing disloyal to america and analyzing a single comment from someone who, at least officially, is an ally of ours.

i'm not defending the policies of the netanyahu or the israeli right, because i don't agree with them.

in few other issues do discussions go straight from tiny to nuclear, and this is a good case in point. small wonder why peace in this area is so elusive, and why so many skilled negotiators and diplomats conclude that there's simply no negotiation with the players in the region.

[whathehell]

207. Um, I believe it's two and it's the content, not the number.

Keep trying, though.

[malokvale77]

154. I do not think that it is...

a "fact" that he is right. A lot of people I know do not accept that to be a fact.

Can you provide proof of this righteous fact?

Most people I know think he is an arrogant SOB. In "fact" they wonder why our tax dollars support such a SOB, rather than the folks here that need the support.

The people I know would like to have an explanation for that "fact".

[Alkene]

181. "he said hamas wouldn't stick to a cease-fire and he turned out to be right."

Oops.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/02/israel-rejects-talks-gaza-attacks-end

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014861501

[2banon]

137. Hilarious

Can I steal this?

Who do you think you're playing "clueless" with?

[whathehell]

141. Isn't it?

You can absolutely steal it.

[unblock]

147. yeah, funny line. nothing to do with my post, but funny line.

[malokvale77]

157. It has everything to do with your post

A whole hell of a lot of us, get it and agree with it.

It is indeed a funny line that just happens to speak truth.

[arikara]

185. Abducting an israeli soldier?

Abducting? I know the media and israeli's are calling it that, but in every other war its called capturing.

[Boom Sound 416]

44. Maybe it's time to go outside and play

[ladjf]

59. He is as arrogant as a person could ever be. nt

[Sienna86]

62. I agree. Arrogance.

I keep trying to wrap my head around America's support and what we get in return.

[WinkyDink]

65. All Americans = Pot (calling....)

[abelenkpe]

83. True

Maybe getting a good taste of how the rest of the world views the US?

[rateyes]

69. Bibi, you baby butcher,

Go fuck yourself, you racist bastard!

[WinkyDink]

72. Did Israelis invent the suicide bomber?

[frylock]

82. did the 4 dead boys on the beach vote for hamas?

[tkmorris]

108. What conceivable difference does that make?

[magical thyme]

122. the suicide bomber was born out of totally assymmetrical warfare

and stealing land from the poor who had lived there for a few thousand years to give to the Zionists, whose ancestors had ruled it for something like 70 years more than a thousand years ago.

[Violet_Crumble]

197. No, but neither did the Palestinians...

The first modern use of suicide bombings would have been by the Kamikazes in WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack

[rateyes]

236. What does that have to do with Bibi's atrocities?

[hifiguy]

74. This arrogant little fuckwit

desperately needs to be given a big-time come-uppance. Like yesterday.

[maxrandb]

78. He's the "Effing"

Dick Cheney of the Middle East.

We need to tell him - "go fuck yourself"

The sad thing is that the fucking Teabaggers have more respect for this asshat than they do the President of the United States.

I'd like to see this fuckstick get by without being bankrolled by the United States, or have we just become another wing of the Israeli Government?

[Hulk]

85. The teabaggers have more respect for ANY of our enemies than for the President..

That is NOT an exaggeration. fox-nonsense has been pumping up Putin, and insulting our President since the Crimea incident hit the scene....and even before. They, and the teabagger masses get excited to see the bare-chested, egotistical mad-man ride a horse, or glut over some dead animal he took down with a high powered rifle from a few hundred meters away. OUR country is so fook'd up right now.
I admire our President, and he's done so many great things for this country that will last long after he leaves the White House. But I am also anxious for him to leave his office and have someone else move in, just so the hatred toward this man can wane. The reich wingers have controlled the message, and the message is "he's a fookin' black man in OUR White House"...and they have done it effectively, thanks to fox-nonsense, the reich wing radio talk-rats, and the repuKKKe party of seditious factions of the US citizenry. He has been black balled by our own countrymen, and our enemies have taken advantage of that. Our friends respect him as intelligent, diplomatic and long sighted. Our enemies realize this is their chance to pull their shit, cause the American public are NOT behind their own government.
I know the same masses of teabaggers and red necks will hate the next Democratic President; but never as bad as they do this "black man in THEIR White House". What a shameful nation.

[Hulk]

80. Putin has met his match...

This ungrateful, ruthless brute could have passed that message along privately; but no, he makes the statement in public to bolster his base and further alienate his country from the US government. To hell with him and all of his followers. It will never happen, but I'd love for us to pull the purse strings on this ruthless, cruel brute. He is doing exactly what the Nazi's did to the Jews in the ghettos when they rose up after being persecuted and realized there was no other way out of their pathetic existence.

To hell with him and all of his followers....ALL of them.

[yurbud]

93. He is becoming Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.

It's one thing to be a stone cold killer, it's something else to be that AND a loose cannon.

[LoisB]

95. TOTALLY agree!!

[Stellar]

97. And could we please tell Netanyahu

to stay the fuck out of our elections? Never ever place his brain and the Republic0n party in our business again. I've been fuming about that Netanyahu B.S. all morning (and just when I was about to get over it, it's here at DU)!

[donna123]

98. The US gets nothing but aggravation from their "friendship" with Israel

The sight of Netanyahu makes me sick. The amount of US TV time he gets is sickening. The way Congress reacted to him visiting, how they were practically drooling and rolled out the red carpet for him, made me want to vomit.

I want to be clear. I think Israel has every right to defend itself, Hamas is about nothing but destruction. I do not think Hamas cares at all about its own people, I think they are willing to die for their cause and willing for their children to die, and Israel is willing to accommodate them and I don't blame Israel for that! Who would put up with rockets being fired into their country constantly? I don't have a problem with the US supplying Israel with weapons.

My problem is the BLATANT disrespect Israelis are showing for the US. Their govt is spitting on ours. They totally insult and completely disrespect us. We are nothing but a tool for them, and that was made clear by the way Congress reacted to N's visit. Israel is not our friend. What do we get from this "friendship"? Nothing but hate from others in the world. Israel is not poor. Why can't they buy our weapons with their money? I'm sure if we did not sell them weapons, they'd get it from someone else, like France. Why do my tax dollars go to support Israel? It's one thing to give money to some poor country for aid like food, I support that.

If a friend who is otherwise friendless asks for your support and money which you give them, and then spits at you and insults you in front of others, would you stay friends with them? If you do, this "friend" will only come to hate you and be contemptuous of you. I have no doubt that in the future, if the US needs Israeli support for something, but it is not in Israel's interest to support the US, Israel will not come through. Israel knows they have Congress by the balls with their lobbyists. I feel like the US is a slave to Israel and I really don't understand it.

[yurbud]

100. I couldn't resist looking at Free Republic response to this story

The general thrust is they agree with Netanyahu and want him to be our president, so we would kill more Muslims.

So much for them being super-patriots who don't want America to take orders from anyone.

Ooops. I forgot to post link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3188147/posts

[99Forever]

101. Exactly n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

103. Who needs to second guess? See hospitals, schools, Mosques, for evidence of what he'll do.

Oh, and cemeteries containing small graves.

[Beartracks]

106. Criticizing Israeli policies is no more anti-Semitic than...

... critcizing American policies is anti-American.

=================

[Helen Borg]

109. Just wait until cheap Teslas take over

The car market... Nobody will care about the ME anymore.

[Paper Roses]

110. I agree! n/t

[Enthusiast]

111. Maybe Netanyahu has a brain tumor or something.

He seems completely unreasonable.

[TBF]

113. I feel so bad for the people

Who are dealing with Hamas terrorizing them on one side and Bibi "protecting" them on the other. Praying for a workable 2-state solution.

[MH1]

120. His bought and paid for lackeys in Congress will keep sending him our tax $$$

NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS.

And no matter how many dead children there are in Palestine.

I wish the US would tell him to F Off! but we never will.

[Cleita]

123. Our pro Israel government will keep kissing his ass because

politicians fear they will lose the Jewish vote. I hope our American Jewish population wakes up to the fact that Netanyahu is another Dick Cheney in a Yarmulke. Only they can influence the outcome of our Israel policy.

[n2doc]

124. He knows he owns us

Congress will do whatever he wants. Obama has little power to stop them (IDF support passes with near 100% votes), and has shown no inclination to do so.

Until Americans get fed up enough to ignore the propaganda and vote AIPAC supporters out of office, nothing is going to change.

[7wo7rees]

126. OK,will not.

No more money, no more weapons. Done. Thanks for making it clear to us.

What a relief!

[gordianot]

127. He is still upset Rmoney was not elected.

Go ahead alienate the last friend you have left.

[malokvale77]

128. I'm in agreement

and I am sick to death of people asking me to explain why I am against the slaughter of innocent civilians.

This is a sickness that needs to be eradicated from the planet.

[mother earth]

136. Make that 3.5 billion, we give money to Palestine too, but theirs cannot be spent militarily. nt

[whathehell]

158. Oh, well that's very "fair" then, isn't it?

[mother earth]

234. Nothing fair at all about aiding and abetting death and destruction. Isn't or shouldn't peace

always be at the forefront? What have we become?

[whathehell]

243. Nope..What have we become?..Big Toadies, it seems,

for AIPAC and the Likud Party..This has got to stop.

[Iggo]

150. Cut 'em off.

Now.

[ReRe]

169. K&R

Now, that's real "ballsey" of him. This is a "kindergarten playground" world, I tell you. What ever happened to growing up, going to college, pulling yourself up by your "bootstraps" (what the hell are bootstraps?), being fucking responsible adults and stewards of this planet?

I think Bibi and his disciples are very immature bullies. Probably more like a panel of sociopaths. So sad for the world and all of its inhabitants, especially the Israelis.

[kelliekat44]

179. Unbelievable disrespect for not only our President but our nation. The disrespect to our President

is rivaled only by the disrespect our own GOP and its supporters have shown to the President. Israel also is not only hypocritical but a bigoted nation as well. I just wish Obama had not given those comments he gave yesterday in support of Israeli actions seeking this supposed "kidnapped" soldier. Those comments were not even necessary and he had to suspect, based on the deception about the three teenagers "kidnapped," that in all likelihood Israel was lying to us again. He seemed almost in a trance when spewing those words.

But the truth is, our country is as much to blame for Netanyahu's arrogance and deception as anything else. We will not give the support needed to Obama to stand up to the likes of Netanyahu. When leadership members of our Congress applaud Putin over the President what do we really expect when it comes to Netanyahu?

[DeSwiss]

180. K&R

- It's $3 billion. And with their economy booming they should be paying us back.....

[Aerows]

192. I would never second guess

that you are an arrogant war-mongering asshole, either, Netanyahu.

[Violet_Crumble]

198. It's incredibly disrespectful, imo...

If that's indeed what he said, that as well as the public insults hurled at Kerry from some of his government is completely out of order.

On the other hand, I have sympathy for those whose private utterances about what a horrible person Nutty is get picked up by people nearby. Like this one between Obama and Sarkozy back in 2011. I so totally agree with every word they said, even though they should have been more careful they weren't near mics when they were talking

Sarkozy and Obama's Netanyahu gaffe broadcast via microphones

The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, described the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, as a "liar" in a private exchange with Barack Obama at last week's G20 summit in Cannes that was inadvertently broadcast to journalists.

"I cannot stand him. He's a liar," Sarkozy told Obama. The US president responded by saying: "You're fed up with him? I have to deal with him every day."

Neither leader apparently realised that microphones that had been attached for a press conference had already been switched on, allowing journalists waiting for a press conference to hear the conversation.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/08/sarkozy-obama-netanyahu-gaffe-microphone

[lexington filly]

202. Mr. Netanyahu, you all have earned this quote to be added

to your flags: "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Your wholesale destruction of innocent lives, homes, hospitals, medical workers, mosques, roads, electricity plant, water supplies, the slaughtered lives and whole fabric of Palestinian culture ripped apart has been so grotesque to see and yet I felt I owed them the respect to bear witness through the reporting and pictures. How do you turn off that internal place of humanity we must each possess and avoid 2nd guessing YOURSELF?
what hate and rage must reside inside of you to fuel these recurring exercises of shooting and bombing men, women, and children like ducks captured in a small barrel. You and your wordy friends justifications are just yada, yada, yada. The numbers do all the talking: 3 civilians in Israel killed. Over 1699 Palestinians killed. 8,000 wounded. And we Americans are well aware of the kinds of wounds from missiles and explosives. So their hospitals and clinics are bombed and all the exits from Gaza are closed. Again, ducks in a barrel.
You wanted the Palestinian people to suffer and they will for years to come. That's a win for you? Will it be quiet enough for you? Cause that seems to be your purpose, a word you use a lot. Quiet. You want to forget they exist behind those tall fences, don't you. You don't want to hear anything from people being herded into pens and stalls like cattle with their economy controlled by you. Their carefully controlled lack of quality of life controlled by Israel. In becoming so indifferent to the very lives and conditions of the Palestinian existence you have become what was so detestable and horrible 60 years ago. in others who mistreated Jews.

I've know enough history and lived long enough to know that one group's terrorist is another group's freedom fighter. one group's savage is another group's resistance fighter.
The journalists and photojournalists have told us things and shown us pictures we can not unsee about things like your bombs with hundreds of darts that shred the skin from the bodies of children. I can't imagine the suffering. I'm aware of no God who condones brutality toward innocent children and mothers.
For every brother you've slaughtered a sister will rise up, and a couple of parents and grandparents to be new enemies. Your apartheid state humiliates, impoverishes, robs them of their land, their natural gas, makes other of their land uninhabitable. You create their dependence and wave it in their faces all the time and threaten to take away what little you allow them. You've shown you are a government without kindness, lacking in compassions, or value for lives that are not Jewish with no generosity of spirit.
I've seen how America has been a good friend to Israel: we send you billions of dollars, weapons, technology, speak up for you at the U.N., on every other world stage. But I don't see how you are a friend to us. You stir up geopolitical problems and then want us to fight the wars for you. By extension, your bully behaviors get carried over to us just because we're your friend. You act awful on the world stage but then we're hated more. To top it off, you've insulted our VP, Sec of State, and President!!! You've evolved into an arrogant thug and are no friend to the U.S. And as soon as our politicians do some evolving of their own and get their spines back from AIRPAC, you'll be sitting around a conference table with Hamas or whomever the Palestinians elect because your falling off American Christmas Card Lists quickly particularly after these last couple of weeks. You've shown us your real face and heart in these last weeks and wow--the lack of your qualities is appalling and not the stuff of friendship. Finally, it's unacceptable for you to be anything less that totally respectful to out president and his administration. Americans think folks who bite the hand that feeds them are just plain stupid, or need to be reminded that friends come and we can go. I sure don't a friend sends insults through the media. Someone who does is a little man with a weak, fragile ego. Perhaps one of your friends in your own neighborhood will be a more appreciated friend. You and Egypt seem to play well together these days.

[blackspade]

204. Netanyahu can take a flying fuck in a rolling donut.

What an insufferable hubric asshole.
Not only will I second guess him, but I question his fucking sanity.

[whathehell]

205. LOL

Yes, sir..You speak for many.

[KansDem]

208. Thanks for this explanation...

Before accusations to the contrary start coming, I'm stating,

for the record that I'm NOT "anti-Semitic"or "anti-Israel" -- I'm anti-

Netanyahu, anti-Likud Party for their INSUFFERABLE hubris, not to

MENTION their indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza.

It's like saying if we were anti-Bush and anti-Republican Party for their war based on lies, then we were anti-American.

[whathehell]

219. Your welcome, and your analogy is spot on. n/t

[NorthCarolina]

209. Fuck that jerk. Oh, and it's 3 Billion per annum, not 2. nt

[Moostache]

213. Eat my shit Bibi...good luck on your own punk.

Open notice to any and all Arab governments and or Palestinian agencies:

If you have money and wish to advance the agenda of peace in the region, I will front your organization in the USA to serve as a counter to AIPAC and all the other Jewish organizations that enable that murdering piece of shit Netanyahoo to exist. Contact me to establish a well funded operation to buy US politicians and their votes. Trust me, the whores that exist in the United States government are ALL for sale - at every level of government from local, city and state all the way up the White House.

If you wish to supply the cash, I will supply the votes and clout (and subservience) of the government of the United States and all of its attendant fringe benefits like weapons, bombs, missiles, shields and UN authorization or road blocks.

***BTW, these whores are a LOT cheaper each than you might imagine....for the cost of the aid package to Israel for a year ($3B) we could probably swing half or more of the US Congress to your side by November!

[riqster]

215. He suffers from delusions of adequacy.

Bibi ought to second guess himself, every now and again.

[LWolf]

223. Who the FUCK does he think we are, his PUPPETS?

Yes. He apparently, with some justification, assumes that we dance to Israel's tune.

I have a solution for that.

Stop giving them our resources, stop any unilateral interventions of any kind, and stop making unilateral statements. Let the UN make them, and support, or not, UN interventions.

[whathehell]

225. My sentiments exactly...

I certainly think we should cut off the PiggyBank.

[NorthCarolina]

228. Congress wouldn't allow it. It is true we give Billions to Israel annually, BUT

not all of those tax dollars remain in Israel as AIPAC is the largest lobby group in DC, giving millions of those tax $$ back to our politicians. Full circle, not to be confused with laundering of taxpayer dollars.

[whathehell]

241. Congress needs to hear from us, then..They're supposed to work for US, not

Israel...I'm sick of them, Yahoo, and AIPAC.

[Galraedia]

226. Israel's problem with the Palestinians has been going on long before Hamas even existed

...and is also partially to blame for creating the environment that allowed a group like Hamas to exist in the first place.

Jews were forcibly removed from their homes during the diasporas (dispersion) by the Roman empire starting around 586 B.C. Modern Israel had been part of Palestine for centuries. At the turn of the 19th century, a movement called Zionism started that called for the Jews to return to their homeland. Before Israel's creation, Palestine willingly accepted some 700,000 Jewish refugees escaping World War I and the Holocaust. After WWII the UN decided to partition Palestine and give 55% of it to Israel so the Jews could create their own nation. Palestine did not vote for the creation of Israel. Instead Israel's creation was imposed on Palestine by the United Nations. Now imagine that tomorrow the United Nations decided half of your country would go to another nation of people -- while you have no say in the matter. But even after that Israel expanded its territory into Palestinian territory. The majority of the Palestinians fled or were kicked off of their land and were forced to become refugees in other middle eastern countries. Now imagine being forced off the land you were born on because a group of immigrants felt they were entitled to it for religious reasons.

This will never end with just Hamas. And Netanyahu insisting on a public declaration of Israel as a Jewish-state from the Palestinians proves it.

[donna123]

229. US ambassador to Israel seems to be Israeli govt rep

Not US rep. I am so disgusted. Watched Fareed Zakaria and saw this guy on CNN. When asked about bibi's remarks that US should never second guess, this guy seemed to smirk. I guess he thinks it's funny and right for bibi to lecture the US. Unbelievable. All this guy did was defend bibi. Him and bibi and others are so smug because they know they have US Congress in their pocket. Congress cannot do anything for our country but they have no problem doing everything and anything for Israel. I don't blame Israel at all for defending itself. I get the impression that it is more important for Hamas to destroy Israel than for Palestinians to have their own land and prosper and think about their future. How ridiculous is Hamas to think that Israel will be destroyed.

But why does US have to so STRONGLY support Israel? WTF is this "special" relationship? WHY? Why don't we have a "special" relationship with Finland, Iceland, Mongolia or some other country? Let the UN mediate, we don't need to be hated because of Israel, especially when they spit on us. Israel won't die without our support. They are more than capable of defending themselves and have a good economy. The one thing I agreed with that nutjob Ron Paul on was this, that we should not be sending money to Israel, and we don't need to so strongly support them. Why can't we be like European countries that stay out of it.

[whathehell]

239. You saw this interview with Fareed Zakaria on CNN International today?

That's interesting as I didn't hear any mention of Yahoo's remarks on any of the Sunday shows.

It will be repeating at 10:00 Eastern Time tonight, though so I DVR'ed it.

As to why we have a "special" relationship with Israel, I think that can

be answered with one word: AIPAC -- The American Israel Public Affairs

Committee.

Huffington post apparently agrees, as they've just posted an article

on AIPAC being the only reason US supports Israel's morally bankrupt policies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-m-walt/aipac-americas-israel-policy_b_5607883.html


Go over to their AIPAC's facebook page -- They're thanking us for

$925 million dollar Shield we just gave them.

[DonCoquixote]

233. why

OK, first of, I realize there are many jews that hate Bibi. The Zionists want to make the Z word = Jew, and we cannot allow them to do that, unlike the idiots in Europe that scream "gas the jews" and then blame Arabs for that.When i speak of Zionists, I do nto speak of Jews, period. Anyone who does can have a nice talk with Naomi Klein and Noam Chomsky, among others.

However, the fact is, the Democrats have very few groups they can count on for BIG MONEY DONATIONS, and one of them is a group of American Jews that may be socially liberal, but very conservative in other ways. Note I said "a gropup of"; they do not speak for all Jews, but they buy a lot of Mike time and press printing. It does not matter whether it is Lloyd Blankenfeld, Anne Evelyn Rothschild, Penny Pritzker, these are people who know that the GOP will glady slit their throat, but want the social spending to be more like the GOP. It is no accident that the all the people I mentioend are known Clinton Supporters, because in Clinton, they got what they desired, a party that was Socially liberal enough to allow them into power, but was the right wing in all other respects.

Bibi knows this, and he also knows that the GOP is trying to use the Israel issue as a means of prying away American jews from the Democrats. It is no accident that people like mark Levin, Michael Savage, and other pundits are or were Jews, who keep screaming "why don't you go GOP!" If the democrats lose the support of Zionism's self-elected, self bought spokesmen, than the GOP knows they are Dead.

[whathehell]

255. I get what you're saying..

I just wish more American Jews would turn away from AIPAC,

who seems to support any Israel at any cost -- I'm betting even

many AIPAC members are horrified at what Benny and Likud

are doing in Gaza...This is murder, if not outright genocide.

[whathehell]

258. You make some excellent points, DonCoquixote.

[Shankapotomus]

250. Looking for that blank check

to kill as much as he wants in the future without being challenged. Yea, it doesn't work that way.

[whathehell]

254. Damned right..

Even AIPAC should be furious with him.

[noamnety]

251. We should be second guessing all leaders, on all things.

It would be incredibly naive to assume that world leaders never have ulterior motives and are never mistaken, no matter what the issue is, or who the leader is.

[ecstatic]

256. What a rude, ungrateful and disrespectful thing to say

Unreal.

[amandabeech]

259. Well, Bibi has lost Joe Scar on the current situation.

Last edited Mon Aug 4, 2014, 07:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Up all night due to family situation, so I turned it on. For me, the network morning shows are cotton candy, and I'd rather throw things than eat cotton candy.

Mika must be on vacation, 'cause Barnacle is in the second seat.

AND get this.

Two of his guests this am are Campbell Brown and Pat Buchanan. I know that the pickings are slim for guests in August, especially on Monday morning, but I think that Joe is scraping the bottom of the barrel here. But I thought that Buchanan was banned from the airways.

On edit: Patty is going to talk about his new book about Nixon as the comback kid. Wretch.