Is Pardoning of Our War Criminals in the Near Future?

[rhett o rick]

My impression of the President's speech was that he was laying the ground work for forgiving those "patriotic" Americans that tortured and or sent our loved ones off to kill Iraqi children with horrible instruments of war, for the goodness of our Republic.

How do you feel about this?

7 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	I think it's high time that we forgive and forget our dead and wounded troops and the millions of lives either taken or lost in Iraq and pardon our American War Criminals.
	1 (14%)
	To "heal the nation" I favor pardoning the top level War Criminals but not those that actually did the dirty work.
	0 (0%)
	I favor pardoning all, but only after they are given a sharp rebuke.
	0 (0%)
	Frack the pardon shite and send the whole lot to the Hague.
	6 (86%)
	I don't care one way or other if President Obama pardons Cheney, I think Ray Rice should be sent to the Hague.
	0 (0%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[FSogol]

1. Doesn't someone have to be charged with something before being pardoned?

Are there examples of blanket pardons?

[rhett o rick]

2. The question is do you think they should be pardoned?

And no, they don't have to be charged.

[FSogol]

3. Has anyone ever been pardoned by a President without being charged first? n/t

[Algernon Moncrieff]

4. Nixon?

I don't recall that he was ever formally indicted prior to Ford's pardon.

[FSogol]

6. Probably a special case since Nixon appointed Ford for the express purpose of getting a pardon.

I'm not aware of any other examples.

[rhett o rick]

7. This is besides the point. It can be done. Do you think it should be done????

[FSogol]

14. Thought of another one: didn't Clinton pardon US citizens that went to Canada to avoid the Vietnam

War draft? Was that a blanket pardon or was it name specific?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

17. President Carter

http://www.justice.gov/pardon/carter_instructions.htm

President Carter, by Proclamation of January 21, 1977, pardoned certain persons who, during the Vietnam War era, violated the Military Selective Service Act by draft-evasion acts or omissions committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973. If you believe your conviction is covered by President Carter’s Proclamation and you can provide the required documentation from your criminal case that will enable us to verify that you are covered by the Proclamation, you may obtain an individual certificate of pardon evidencing the fact that this Pardon Proclamation applies to you. The certificate will be issued only if you were convicted of such an offense. If you were arrested for and/or charged with a Military Selective Service Act violation for an offense committed during the relevant time period, but your prosecution ended in some fashion other than conviction (such as dismissal of charges or an acquittal), you are not eligible to seek a certificate of pardon.

Furthermore, President Carter’s Pardon Proclamation applies only to violations of the Military Selective Service Act by civilians. If you were a member of the armed forces during the relevant period, and you were convicted for a violation of military law, your offense does not qualify for treatment under the Proclamation. A person wishing to seek a presidential pardon for a military conviction may apply for a pardon from the current President under the regular pardon procedure. In addition, the Carter Proclamation does not apply to Military Selective Service Act violations involving force or violence, or to offenses committed by agents, officers, or employees of the Military Selective Service system in connection with duties or responsibilities arising out of their employment. Consequently, if you were employed by the Military Selective Service system and your offense involved your official duties, or if your offense involved force or violence, your conviction was not pardoned by the Proclamation.

If you believe that you were convicted of an offense that was pardoned by the Carter Pardon Proclamation and wish to obtain a certificate reflecting that the Proclamation applies to you, complete the following application form fully and carefully and submit it with the documentation from your court case. The information we request on the application form is needed to allow us to determine whether you belong to the class of persons pardoned by the Proclamation and are eligible to receive the certificate of pardon. The documents you must provide to enable us to determine whether you fall within the class of pardoned persons are (1) the charging document (the indictment or criminal information that sets forth the factual basis of the offense) and (2) the judgment of conviction or the court docket sheet reflecting the date of sentencing and the sentence imposed for the criminal charge of which you were convicted. Any other court documentation you provide may be helpful, but may not in itself be sufficient to allow us to determine whether you were pardoned. To research whether documents from your prosecution are still available, you should contact the National Archives, whose website is www.archives.gov.

We may ask the United States Attorney for the district in which you were convicted to verify the information you provide. Because of the amount of time that has passed since the promulgation of President Carter’s Pardon Proclamation, it has become extremely difficult and time-consuming -- and sometimes impossible -- for Department of Justice and court personnel to locate records of Selective Service Act prosecutions brought during the Vietnam War era. Accordingly, the Office of the Pardon Attorney is no longer able to accept applications for Carter Proclamation pardon certificates unless they are accompanied by official documentation sufficient to permit us to determine whether the applicants meet the criteria of the Proclamation.

If we are able to conclude that the Carter Pardon Proclamation applies to your conviction, we will send you a certificate evidencing your pardon. We will also notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation that your conviction was pardoned by the Proclamation so that the FBI may make the appropriate notation of that fact in its official records.

[FSogol]

18. Thanks. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

27. On his first full day of office as the President of these United States!!

A lot of people don't remember that, so thanks for posting it here.

[pinboy3niner]

28. I remember because I was the intern who had to draft my Rep's press release on it

I'd just arrived in D.C. to do a study semester/internship program from USC. The Rep's Admin Ass't. thought that would be a good test, especially knowing I was a VN vet who'd been a draftee. I ended up writing virtually all of the Rep's press releases during my time there.

[FSogol]

29. WTF? How can it be a lie to that insults Clinton? It was a brave (and decent)

thing for the President to do. If you bothered to look at the rest of the thread before jumping in to insult me, someone told me 5 hours before you piped up that it was Carter.

[BainsBane]

21. A preemptive pardon?

From what? What jurisdiction?

[Joe Magarac]

15. What was Nixon charged with? n/t

[KoKo]

5. My view is what you say:

My impression of the President's speech was that he was laying the ground work for forgiving those "patriotic" Americans that tortured and or sent our loved ones off to kill Iraqi children with horrible instruments of war, for the goodness of our Republic.

I HOPE we both are proved wrong about this...but, I'm not getting hopes up about it.

[FSogol]

8. I kind of doubt any pardon is in the works.

First, it won't be required, since no one has been charged. I also doubt anyone will be charged (they haven't by now) and even if they are, the courts have always made wide exemptions (justified or not) for "keeping the country safe." Also, no President will prosecute his predecessor. Don't see it happening.

[rhett o rick]

9. How do you feel about this? Do you think the Republican War Criminals should be pardoned or not? nm

[FSogol]

13. Isn't it clear, what I think?

While I'd love to see Cheney and his crowd in the Federal pokey, it is never going to happen. No pardon will happen, no charges will be filed. Obama is not preparing to pardon those guys.

I see your post (and badgering) as an attempt to blame Obama for something the Bush administration did. Your entire post starts off ("My impression of the President's speech was that he was laying the ground work for forgiving...&quot with an erroneous assumption and ends up being a pointless exercise. One thing that would save your assumption would be if there was a history of blanket pardons by Presidents, but you think that avenue is pointless.

[rhett o rick]

25. I hope you are correct. I am sorry that you thought it was badgering trying to

get you to give us your opinion if Pres Obama should or shouldn't pardon the war criminals. In his speech it sounded to me like he was laying the ground work. Ford pardoned Nixon and Nixon wasn't charged. I can't find anything that would prevent Pres Obama from giving a blanket pardon, but I hope there is something somewhere that does.

[former9thward]

35. The statute of limitations has long run.

There can't be indictments so no need of any pardons.

[rhett o rick]

36. Do you have a source for the statute of limitations on war crimes? nm

[former9thward]

37. There is no statute of limitations for war crimes.

But the U.S. is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court.

[rhett o rick]

40. And therefore the statue of limitations ran out? Is that what you are saying? nm

[former9thward]

41. As far as the U.S. is concerned.

No other county has charged war crimes.

[truebluegreen]

10. Nah. Pardoning our war criminals does nothing for Obama.

It won't win him friends or respect on either side of the aisle. It's a lose-lose...and if you add in constitutional issues you can add another "lose" (I'm not sure he cares about that, given his record).

I'll bet "we tortured some folks" is as far as he will go, and is already farther than he wished to.

ETA: Everyone involved--from Dumya and Darth on down--should be prosecuted for war crimes.

[Joe Magarac]

16. Sure it does. It sets a precedent for his successor to pardon *him* n/t

[FSogol]

19. What would Obama need pardoned for? n/t

[Joe Magarac]

31. The same sort of things as Bush & Cheney. You people are in deep denial. n/t

[FSogol]

32. Darrell Issa is that you?

More both parties are the same bullshit. Chuckle on "you people". You people equals Democrats?

[Joe Magarac]

34. So you're only against war crimes when Republican do them?

Clarification: The parties are plenty different on some issues, but when it come to mass murder, torture, and the war on everybody ...

[FSogol]

39. War on everyone? Whenever your views coincide with Alex Jones and Darrell Issa, it is time to stop

and reexamine your warped views.

[truebluegreen]

22. He doesn't need one--it has already been set.

Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon in '74 and since then it has become a habit that criminal acts by government officials have a different standard. It has gotten to the point that we don't even charge them now.

[Lost In America]

11. As a Veteran, I have to forgive the actions of fellow servicemembers. We didn't have a choice.

We are/were under the orders of the Commander In Chief.




Enough said.

[truebluegreen]

12. No. Not enough.

Service members should not get a pass on obeying illegal orders. That said, they shouldn't be left holding the bag, as happened in Abu Ghraib.

[BainsBane]

20. We aren't a signatory to the international Criminal Court

Without congressional approval of that treaty, there is no way to send them. If we were signatories, a pardon would be worthless because the Hague follows international law, not US law. Since we aren't a signatory, there is no need for a pardon.

Given that, I don't see the point of your poll. It just doesn't make sense. Did you mean to ask do you think congress should approve the US's becoming a signatory to the International Criminal Court? If so, my answer is yes. Then whether US governmental officials responsible for Iraq would be prosecuted would be determined by Prosecutors at the Hague, not public opinion. No one would be "sent." The International Criminal court would indict them.

[conservaphobe]

24. +1

[conservaphobe]

23. Just because something SHOULD happen doesn't mean it is a viable option.

And the President shouldn't be expected to waste what little time he has left in office pursuing a losing battle.

[WinkyDink]

30. No. The Western leaders colluded and the American people (but for the survivors) have forgotten.

Thus, no need for Obama's putting pardons "on the table."

[LordGlenconner]

33. The members of the Guilty Remnant are laying it on thick today

"Let us smoke"

[Aerows]

38. They've already been pardoned.

No repercussions, living lives of luxury, and the stains on their records are for "little people" to complain about.