The Times of Israel posted an article titled "When Genocide Is Permissible."

[WilliamPitt]

No, really.

They took it down, but the Internet never forgets. From the now-removed article:

"We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

Gaza Strip: 'Palestinian Genocide is Permissible' Claims Israeli Writer
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-palestinian-genocide-permissible-claims-israeli-writer-1459390

[hrmjustin]

1. Wow, just wow!

[roguevalley]

70. I can't tell you how this hurts my heart. My great grandma would not understand any

more than me.

[Billy Budd]

85. he does not want to "mow the lawn"

He wants to dig up the lawn and cover it in salt ...am I allowed to say this or am I going to Jury ?

[hrmjustin]

89. I doubt your post would be hidden.

[elzenmahn]

233. I support your post...

The "mow the lawn" (an analogy used by either the Israeli government and/or press) was sickening to me already.

But to openly advocate genocide? I share your sentiments...

[billhicks76]

172. They Have Become What They Hate

They are racist. And if a war on the scale of WW2 were going on they would behave exactly like the Nazi camps did and it sickens me to realize this.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

199. here's another call to genocide by a different author at the Times of Israel

This is dated today, Aug 1 2014

Excerpt:

Irwin E. Blank
1 Samuel 15:18
...
Time and again, throughout Jewish history, we have been told that Amalek will arise in every generation to try to destroy this people. Saul refuses to kill Agag, the king of the Amalekites. In his disobedience, his defying of G-d, is equivalent to our present leadership attempting to fight Hamas while refusing to employ the means to destroy it entirely. By discovering and exploding all the tunnels, or seizing all their arms, is inadequate to assure the utter destruction that is necessary in this war against the Amalekites of today. There must be no quarter given, no “humanitarian ” ceasefires, but a resolute combat without the words and demands of a hateful, hypocritical cabal barking like angry dogs, at our heels..

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/1-samuel-1518/#ixzz39AIQIcls

[Fred Sanders]

2. Fascism, Israeli style, the nation has gone mad with blood lust led by the bloodthirsty media.

Not to mention the bloodthirsty amateur they elected as their leader.

Israel will start WW3 and then claim Hamas was at fault, anyone criticizing them will be labelled anti-Semetic and silenced....wake up America, did we learn nothing about propaganda through the years?

[defacto7]

101. I agree for the most part, but as for this Blog post

".. The Times of Israel does not edit or review pieces before publication."

Well, they bloody hell better start doing so!!!

or not... maybe we do need to see what Americans are saying.

[BobbyBoring]

102. As sick as that may sound...

There are many in this country anxiously awaiting WW3 so Jesus will come snatch them up.

[hifiguy]

109. Such people are in desperate need of

SERIOUS psychiatric help and heavy-duty medication.

[A Simple Game]

139. Hopefully those awaiting WW3 will do themselves and the rest of us a favor and

be in the vanguard of the one and only battle. Jesus can have them.

[JDPriestly]

129. Actually, it is one lesson that some draw from the Old Testament.

That is, I'm sure, the attitude of a certain number of people the world over. Think Rwanda.

It is primitive.

I am still praying for peace. But peace is a two-sided accomplishment. Takes the ability to compromise and forgive on both or all sides of a conflict.

[enough]

3. "Sustaining quiet." There's a concept. (nt)

[JaydenD]

77. The dead don't make much noise

except in the deep chambers of the soulless who took them there, the dead rattle their bones in the black hearts of the murderers.

[defacto7]

103. The dead do make noise

if the living carry their story. It's what the living do with that story that counts and in that case, the dead make more noise than a single live being. What are they telling us?

[malthaussen]

230. You know, "create a desolation and call it peace."

Or, updated to the Vietnam era, "We had to destroy the village to save it."

-- ML

[Hell Hath No Fury]

4. Just saw that on Twitter -

I am seeing more and more of that kind of talk -- openly calling for the total "removal" /killing of Palestinians in Gaza. Some Jews/Jewish Israelis are totally losing their shit. Heard it from a liberal Democratic friend on FB -- couldn't believe what I was reading.

[marions ghost]

5. too much

cognitive dissonance

[Fred Sanders]

6. 110% supported by your American government and Congress, more ammo on the way...sick.

[marions ghost]

10. I realize that,

and yeah it's sickening. But not surprising.

Warmongers and Weapons R US.

[redqueen]

22. "Warmongers and Weapons R US."

Exactly.

Corporations control governments, and they are psychopaths.

[ReRe]

94. That's right...

... GREED IS NOT GOOD. It never was, and it never will be. And in this instance, greed is evil, since innocents are dying by the hundreds almost every day that passes.

[Jack Rabbit]

201. No, Redqueen is wrong. Corporations are not psychopaths.

In order to be possessed by a pathology, one must be a human. If there's something we American humanists can agree on in age of sophistry, it is that corporations are not people. It takes a real Supreme Shyster to say otherwise.

However, having said that, like us observe that psychopathology is very common nowadays in the members of the boards of directors and in the chief officers of large global corporations.

And then there's the politicians. Most of them are either psychopaths in their own right, or just corporate stooges. In any case, being a psychopath makes one too dangerous to hold a position of responsibility, while being a stooge makes one too stupid.

Which brings us back the Bibi the Butcher. He's definitely a psychopath. So is anyone who thinks genocide could ever be justified.

[L0oniX]

7. It's not genocide if it's done slowly, piece by piece over a long period of time?

[truedelphi]

28. And besides that, Loonix, think of the good results in our economy!

Dow remains firmly over 16,000, while DoD struggles to keep up with Israel's insatiable need for more weaponry.


http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/07/31/world-condemns-attack-gaza-us-resupplies-israel-weapons

[Skinner]

8. Full article still exists here (UPDATED)

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 03:44 PM - Edit history (2)

http://5tjt.com/when-genocide-is-permissible/

ON EDIT: Now it's showing "404 Not Found". The website has posted an apology from the author:

Apology from Yochanan Gordon

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

I wish to express deep regret and beg forgiveness for an article I authored which was posted on 5TJT.com, Times of Israel and was tweeted and shared the world over.

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

With that said I pray and hope for a quick peaceful end to the hostilities and that all people learn to coexist with each other in creating a better world for us all.

Yochanan Gordon

http://5tjt.com/apology-from-yochanan-gordon/

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. thank you. made a pdf of it for posterity. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

20. Yochananan Gordon has been consumed by his hatred, the irony of his "logic" is staggering!

http://5tjt.com/when-genocide-is-permissible/

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

[oberliner]

60. That website has taken down the piece and printed this statement

An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion. We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea.

The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention. We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error.

http://5tjt.com/editors-note/

[Uncle Joe]

64. Thanks for the update, oberliner. n/t

[chimpymustgo]

231. And they may denounce the ARTCLE all they like, but the GENOCIDE continues. With Israeli support.

We are bearing witness to genocide.

[jwirr]

67. My God. It is entirely possible to place this same article in the hands of the Nazis because they

really thought that many of their economic problems stemmed from the Jews, the disabled, gays etc. They were wrong but none the less they could have asked this same question. Please world let us work to bring about a lasting peace before we go any further.

[sabrina 1]

75. The blind ignorance of the Far Right should be something we are used to by now,

but it never fails to astound me.

There is no LOGIC in their blind, murderous fury.

His contention is that ONLY ISRAEL has the right to defend its citizens.

A logical person would realize that if a government has that right, so do ALL GOVERNMENTS. But not this idiot.

Not to mention that bigger and more powerful governments than his, have tried to wipe out entire groups of people, and failed.

I'm glad this has been saved so that the world can see what kind of mindset is driving this criminal slaughter of innocent people. We are told this doesn't represent Israel, well then let's hear it condemned, and let's hear OUR GOVERNMENT condemn it, because this is not the first such proposal coming out of Israel.

It is sickening and horrific and worse, OUR tax dollars are supporting it.

[KoKo]

192. Yes, Sabrina 1! Well said....

After all we've been through and keeping informed ...we still have to deal with the "trasher/misinfo" people ...AS IF ...NO OTHER VOICES need to be heard.

[sabrina 1]

200. Those misinfo people are doing way more harm at this point, to Israel.

There is worldwide horror over this. The decent thing to do at this point is to condemn it. Anyone trying to defend it is demonstrating a serious lack of humanity and from what I have seen in comments from all over the world, those 'apologists' are only adding fuel to the fire. I don't know whose idea it was to try to defend this, but they have to be the most brainless individuals on the face of the earth.

[lark]

95. Easy

The answer is 100% Fuck NO! Genocide is never the answer. Killling a whole population of diverse people because you want QUIET is OK - really? So all crying babies can be killed because they bother someone? Loud people at restaurants are now in danger if they are on Israeli land? Or is that only loud people of Arabic descent that will be killed for quiet? Racist, intolerable attitudes.

[Divernan]

47. I got a "page not found" screen. Anyone able to post the whole thing?

[Divernan]

68. Got this link from Naomi Wolf on FB

https://archive.today/RPf3M

And although the Times of Israel has deleted the article, it has left some 65 comments up.

[Billy Budd]

88. screen shot from TPM

http://a1.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_154,w_300/ur5fxh6buz3y9c3oc0hi.jpg

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/times-israel-genocide-permissible

[KoKo]

54. Just tried twice and getting "Page Not Found"

They must have taken it down.

[oberliner]

61. See this statement

http://5tjt.com/editors-note/

[leftynyc]

83. No, it's been deleted and an apology

issued:

Editor’s Note

An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion. We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea.

The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention. We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error.

http://5tjt.com/editors-note/

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

122. they apologize because of worldwide condemnation

that is what they apologize for.

[oberliner]

131. "They" being whom exactly?

[1StrongBlackMan]

140. The author of the OP and editor of the paper ...

I doubt that had there not been world-wide condemnation, either would have apologized.

[stranger81]

175. Exactly. It wouldn't have even been taken down.

This article didn't "escape" their scrupulous editorial attention. One of their editors read it, said "good -- I agree with that," and posted it.

[oberliner]

177. This is not true

The blog post was taken down immediately (and was not previously read by an editor).

The only reason this article got any attention was because people took a cache of the deleted post and made a stink about it.

The "worldwide condemnation" started after the piece had already been taken down by the Israeli paper.

[stranger81]

180. Says the newspaper that posted it in the first place.

If you really believe this self-serving backpedalling and ass-covering, I have a nice bridge to sell you in Arizona.

[oberliner]

182. It was a blog post

They are not reviewed in advance.

[stranger81]

183. That's been covered over and over in this thread, and debunked.

You can repeat the excuses until the cows come home. Problem for you is, people are no longer swallowing them like gospel truth.

[oberliner]

185. No it hasn't

Here is the relevant info from their website:

Reader-Submitted Content

Readers are welcome to comment on our content. Comments to the Site can only be submitted via the Facebook Comments plugin. We may allow you, subject to our sole discretion, to post a blog or other content on the Site. You post any such comments and submit any such content at your own discretion and risk, and we accept no responsibility for them. We do not endorse any such comments or content. In submitting any such comments or content, you acknowledge that you have the legal right to submit them, and that we have no obligation to pre-screen them or moderate them.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/terms/#ixzz39BsRw7Qm

[Violet_Crumble]

223. That's for people who comment on the articles posted. This wasn't a blog post...

It was an article in a section very similar to CiF at the Guardian. That info you posted is for people who come along and comment on those articles. The Times Of Israel has already apologised for allowing that article to slip past their editors.

This reminds me very much of the furore over a contributor who published an anti-Semitic article in the online version of Ma'an. I've got no time for the Times of Israel as it's a RW source, but the lesson media in Israel and Palestine should be learning from these incidents is that there needs to be a tighter control from editorial staff on what gets through and into their online versions...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=33233

[oberliner]

224. No it's not and this was a blog post

The policy stated applies to Times of Israel bloggers which anyone can become. You will note that the text makes reference both to comments (which can only be submitted via Facebook) and to blog posts (which is what this was).

I would also point out that The Times Of Israel has not "already apologised for allowing that article to slip past their editors."

Here is their statement about it:

The Times of Israel on Friday removed an unacceptable blog post, entitled “When genocide is permissible."

This blog post, which was described by our Ops & Blogs editor as both damnable and ignorant, blatantly breached The Times of Israel’s editorial guidelines.

We have discontinued the writer’s blog.

The Times of Israel maintains an open blog platform: Once we have accepted bloggers, we allow them to post their own items. This trust has rarely been abused. We are angry and appalled that it was in this case, and will take steps to prevent a recurrence.

We will not countenance blog posts that incite to violence or criminal acts.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/times-of-israel-removes-an-unacceptable-blog-post/#ixzz39EHTexPr

[oberliner]

226. Apology from 5 Towns Jewish Times

There was a different apology from the 5 Towns Jewish Times who also published the piece. Maybe you were mixing up the two?

Here's what they said:

“An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion,” the Long Island newspaper’s editors said in a statement on the site.

“We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea,” it said. “The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention. We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error.”

That is taken from a JTA article - which also includes:

Gordon had immediate posting rights at the Times of Israel, and did not need an editor’s clearance.

And the statement from Times of Israel:

“The blog post, which was both damnable and ignorant, was uploaded by a blogger,” Miriam Herschlag, the Times of Israel op-ed editor, said in an email. “It was removed by the Times of Israel for breaching our editorial guidelines. The blog has been discontinued.”

http://www.jta.org/2014/08/01/news-opinion/united-states/times-of-israel-5-towns-paper-remove-posting-pondering-genocide-in-gaza#ixzz39EO2OJ3U

Incidentally, there are some pretty nasty things posted on Times of Israel blogs that are almost as offensive as this and that are still up there (an example is provided somewhere in this thread).

[Violet_Crumble]

228. Ah, I didn't realise it had been posted in two different places...

D'oh!

Anyway, I wish media sources over there (both Israeli and Palestinian) would have pre-moderation for any blog posts and comments sections. Back when I used to punish myself by reading some of that stuff, what I was reading used to curl my toes, and I've got pretty uncurlable toes

[elzenmahn]

234. The stink was WELL DESERVED...

...and it exposes an ugly side to the logic behind the Israeli Government's behavior.

[Logical]

261. Wow, how can anyone be defending this? You are scary. nt

[leftynyc]

211. Your opinion only

You don't know any of the people involved and you WANT to think the worst so you will, it's that simple.

[NightWatcher]

9. but both sides do it

Nah not really, I kid, but someone has to say it in every I/P post.

I guess the writer is pro-genocide as long as he's on the side that's doing instead of being done to? Whatever happen to the 'never again' and 'never forget' talk?

[Raster]

17. The irony is both equally appalling and astounding.

A Jewish writer in a Jewish news outlet asking whether genocide is permissible? There truly are no words.

[regnaD kciN]

159. No more "ironic" than what's been coming out of the Knesset in recent days...

...including the MK (don't remember her name) who was calling on Israel to execute the mothers of Hamas members.

[Raster]

260. Oh for the love of gawd. I had not heard that.

What I have heard is that many of the Shoah survivors are aghast and horrified at the Israeli government's actions. One comment I read, and I paraphrase: genocide is evil, no matter who does it.

[steve2470]

11. wow *shakes head sadly* nt

[sufrommich]

12. It wasn't a Times of Israel editorial, it was a blogger who

posted on their open page which they do not edit or review before publication. They quickly took it down as it violated their terms for publication. A little research would have told you that.

[m-lekktor]

13. you are correct. nt

[WilliamPitt]

15. That makes it better.

[sufrommich]

18. Makes what better? You posted this as if it were an

actual approved editorial in an Israeli paper.It wasn't. It violated their TOS,they took it down.

[LordGlenconner]

57. So what you're saying is

That it's not much different than some of the rants that get posted here? In other words, not a legitimate editorial, just some goober's opinion?

[temporary311]

106. Isn't every editorial

just some goober's opinion?

[LordGlenconner]

110. Depends

Some newspapers have editorial boards. These groups debate issues and arrive at a decision on what position to take collectively. The collective nature of an editorial board is what distinguishes it from a typical opinion columnist like Peggy Noonan or the other moonbat, Maureen Dowd.

This sounds like just some guy who went off half cocked.

[Duval]

82. Hell no! n/t

[redqueen]

23. Thank you for clarifying that important point. nt

[randys1]

26. Now that makes sense, thanks...I dont think for one minute the rank and file

Israeli population is good with genocide.

I think the Israeli govt are rightwing assholes and a huge problem, but this story now makes more sense.

[Comrade Grumpy]

29. Well, a huge majority of Israeli Jews support the war. So there is that.

I don't know if Israeli Arabs were polled. You'd think support wouldn't be so strong there.

[m-lekktor]

37. i think of sizable chunk of supporters inside and outside of Israel are good with it(genocide).

seriously.

[onenote]

80. You probably think a lot of stupid shit for which there is no basis.

That's your right.

[PCIntern]

157. +10000 nt

[GeorgeGist]

40. Oh, how responsible of them.

[ybbor]

104. The writer, Yochanan Gordon, ...

Is the son of the founder of the Five Towns Jewish Times, never heard of it before.

For what it's worth.

[treestar]

16. They keep harping on the fact Hamas wants to destroy them

Without accounting for the fact that literally is impossible.

There are no doubt some crazies who state they wish to annihilate us. North Korea comes to mind. By this logic, we should be able to kill everyone in that nation, simply because their leaders declared we are the great Satan and they intend to destroy us.

And it is collective punishment. Why do they not find and take out Hamas? People complain about drones here, but that sounds like the solution - indeed we could not say anything if that were the approach Israel took.

[hifiguy]

19. And so things have come full circle.

As Professor Farnsworth so memorably said, I just don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[frylock]

62. sometimes i think i'm ready for the sunset squad robots as well

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

21. Israel about to bomb another hospital, if that isn't genocide what is?

Dr.Bassel Abuwarda tweeted this earlier today:

?@DrBasselAbuward
REPORTING FROM THE HOSPITAL
Israel has threatened to bomb a building used for excess patients here in our Alshifa hospital

https://twitter.com/DrBasselAbuward/status/495202676729053184

[oberliner]

24. It was a blog post not a Times of Israel editorial

Props to them for deleting it so quickly.

[jberryhill]

66. He is a regular contributor

The Times of Israel is not a blog:

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/yochanan-gordon/

Yochanan's father founded the Five Towns Jewish Times. Much of Yochana's inspiration in the field of writing stems from his father, of course as well as his paternal grandfather, Nison Gordon, a yiddish journalist of note who wrote for the Tog Morgen Journal and later the Algemeiner Journal until his sudden passing in December of 1989.

[oberliner]

69. A blogger - which you can be too

Anyone can sign up to be a blogger at their website.

When this blogger made a blog post that was objectionable, the paper deleted it quickly.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

120. pulled due to intl outrage -trending #1 on twitter NOW

The Times didn't pull it because of judgement.
If they had decency, it never would have been published to begin with.

When Genocide is Permissible is trending in #1 spot on twitter today

[oberliner]

121. Pulled before any outrage

In fact, the only reason anyone knows it ever existed was because of folks "screen capturing" where it used to be and getting people whipped up about it.

[sufrommich]

124. And yet *crickets* about this sort of thing:

http://everydayantisemitism.tumblr.com/

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

25. Why choose such an inflammatory word

as if it's to revel in its sound? For a Jew to use that word seems especially wrong.

[BlindTiresias]

33. Because

Quite a few Israelis sincerely believe in a "permanent quiet" of the occupied territories.

[sulphurdunn]

49. Is "permanent quiet" a euphemism

for the euphemism "final solution?"

[hifiguy]

53. The hard-right-wingers certainly do.

But then that is the hard-right-wing approach to most disputes the world over.

[Comrade Grumpy]

27. Remarkably straightforward. Appears to reflect the thinking of many Israelis.

I would be hard-pressed to remain civil in the presence of anyone who identified himself as an Israeli right now.

[randys1]

30. Would love to see your proof of that, "reflects thinking of MANY Israeli's?"

many Israeli people want genocide of the Palestinian people?

You see I dont believe that, I believe certain govt officials surely might but not the people

[Comrade Grumpy]

31. I can find no poll asking them if they support the genocide of Gazans, but...

...there is this, which comes after Israel has already killed more than a thousand Palestinian civilians:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/israeli-polls-support-gaza-campaign-media

Israeli polls show overwhelming support for Gaza campaign

Consensus has been shaped in part by media which largely focus on Israeli casualties and play down Palestinian deaths
Share 159

Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem

theguardian.com, Thursday 31 July 2014 12.03 EDT

Supporters of Israel's Gaza offensive demonstrate in Tel Aviv. Photograph: Reuters

Public support among Israeli Jews for the military campaign in Gaza has been overwhelming throughout its 24-day duration, with a recent opinion poll showing 95% of respondents believed the war was justified.

A survey conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute and Tel Aviv University on three separate occasions between 14 and 23 July, and published this week, found that only 3-4% agreed with a statement that the Israel Defence Forces had used excessive firepower in the conflict.

The findings were echoed in a separate poll, also published this week, in which 86% of Israeli Jews said they supported the war. Fewer than 10% agreed that it was time to stop, and 86.5% said military action should not cease until Hamas's rockets and tunnels had been dealt with and Hamas had surrendered.

Support is not universal, however. There have been anti-war rallies in most major cities, but they have attracted small numbers and have come under physical and verbal attack from rightwing activists. A protest in Tel Aviv last Saturday drew around 5,000, the biggest number to date by far.

[WilliamPitt]

34. This might help

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/videos/video/holocaust-survivor-mourns-what-israel-has-become

[sulphurdunn]

51. The farther right a society drifts

the more likely it is to want to solve its problems by killing them.

[hifiguy]

55. Twas ever thus.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

163. yeah

[DeadLetterOffice]

78. The person who wrote the piece is American, not Israeli.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

164. that's interesting.

And kind of unsurprising.

[pa28]

32. The Israelis always say "never forget".

Looks like somebody forgot.

[closeupready]

35. I won't. This op-ed is beyond the pale.

[no_hypocrisy]

36. Just don't call it a "Holocaust" . . . . .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-abraham-cooper/there-was-only-one-holoca_b_460939.html

[onenote]

143. If you think that what is happening in Gaza, as horrible as it is, is remotely like the Holocaust

you're the most uninformed person I've ever run across. Ever.

[no_hypocrisy]

148. My post is an allusion to any genocide called a holocaust and

missing the point of a societal assassination.

[onenote]

150. Really? Then why did you capitalize "Holocaust" in your post?

[no_hypocrisy]

153. To reference how H/holocaust is an ill-defined term.

[onenote]

196. Maybe it's ill-defined to you

But in common parlance, when the word "holocaust" is capitalized, it is a specific reference to the mass killing of various populations, most notably Jews, but also members of other groups, by the Germans in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. When the word is not capitalized, it is a reference to genocide in general.

So your post seemed to suggest that criticism of someone for equating what is happening in Gaza to the Holocaust (your capital "H&quot was unjust. Well, its not. Its absolutely on point to criticize someone for equate the Holocaust to the war in Gaza.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. knr

[guyfromla]

46. Sanders 2016

I called him on a show and he did not take my question on the current genocide in Palestine..

[malaise]

39. Isn't that what we condemned when it was done by the Germans?

What the fugging fuck!!!

[Fozzledick]

41. Why did you fraudulently make such a false and inflammatory claim?

It wasn't an editorial by the Times, it was a blogger post that they immediately took down.

This is like blaming Skinner for crap that gets posted here and deleted by MIRT.

[WilliamPitt]

42. No.

The Times of Israel is not a forum.

[Fozzledick]

48. What the hell? How can you defend that?

It was an unedited post that they immediately deleted.

[JackRiddler]

50. Please clarify further, as I'm with you on this.

It's not just one guy advocating genocide openly or implicitly. However the Times of Israel is not a forum but it may host non-Times voices, in this case blogs open to and run by subscribers. That it runs under their masthead is a problem, but they may not screen these in advance. In that case, the equivalent of a forum post, that they then appropriately censored. Or do they maintain a closed stable of such bloggers, meaning that this guy is or was in effect an approved voice? It's important to make these distinctions in making your case.

[oberliner]

65. You wrote: "The Times of Israel posted an editorial..."

An editorial is an opinion piece written by the senior editorial staff or publisher of a newspaper/magazine.

This was not that.

It was a post by a blogger that the staff of the newspaper removed almost immediately.

[Hissyspit]

208. It says "article," not "editorial."

[Behind the Aegis]

209. It didn't before the edit.

BS propaganda. The "article" was written by a blogger, and placed on the open page. It was almost immediately removed, but apparently, that isn't good enough.

[Hissyspit]

218. What edit? There's no reference to an edit history that I can see.

I understand that it was a blogger.

[Behind the Aegis]

219. If you need to check for edits on an OP, you have to click the 'thread info' button.

If it is a reply within the thread, click on "permalink" and it will give a list of edits. For this OP:

Thread Information

Title: The Times of Israel posted an article titled "When Genocide Is Permissible."

Edit History


This post has been edited 3 times. Show all

0.Fri Aug 1, 2014, 11:38 AM - Original version with no edits. (Show)

1. Fri Aug 1, 2014, 11:38 AM - Unexplained edit. (Hide)

Unexplained edit.

0. The Times of Israel posted an editorial titled "When Genocide Is Permissible."


No, really.

They took it down, but the Internet never forgets. From the now-removed article:

"We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

Gaza Strip: 'Palestinian Genocide is Permissible' Claims Israeli Writer
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-palestinian-genocide-permissible-claims-israeli-writer-1459390

2. Fri Aug 1, 2014, 01:23 PM - Unexplained edit. (Hide)

Unexplained edit.

0. The Times of Israel posted an article titled "When Genocide Is Permissible."


No, really.

They took it down, but the Internet never forgets. From the now-removed article:

"We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

Gaza Strip: 'Palestinian Genocide is Permissible' Claims Israeli Writer
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-palestinian-genocide-permissible-claims-israeli-writer-1459390

EDIT (demonstration within thread)

[msanthrope]

220. Very nice catch. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

221. Thanks, but of course, it now will mean I support the "editorial article".

You know how my kind are.

[msanthrope]

222. Yeah--your kind, with the inconvenient facts and memory, and the ability

to click.

[intaglio]

227. Could you please cite some instances of overt anti-Semitism on DU?

Or are you just trying to be inflammatory?

[Hissyspit]

255. I did not or was not going to say anything of the kind. Nt

[Behind the Aegis]

256. Didn't say you did or were going to do so. nt

[guyfromla]

43. The 4th Reich - based in Israel

Sad to see Israeli's falling for the same propaganda that ensnared Germans in the 30s....

[Rozlee]

114. Yeah, there's not much difference between the Master Race and the Chosen People.

Both concepts pave the way for a belief in one's group claiming superiority over others and considering those outside their tribe, race, religion, etc., inferior or damned. Once they're viewed that way, it's not only easier to kill them, it's practically an invitation to.

[LTX]

213. Not even bothering with the "criticism of Israel" charade anymore, eh?

I guess there's no need. DU has moved well beyond pretending.

[Rozlee]

238. You can say the same thing about the belief Christians have in their salvation.

That Muslims have that they're the ones favored by god. When any race, religion, ethnic group, etc., starts destroying another because it believes that it has a right to land, resources or any other possessions based on its convictions that it's superior to others, it is no different than Hitler's myth of the Aryan Superman. We have only to look at America's genocide of our native Americans and pre-Columbians to see that.

[2banon]

247. Precisely, why I think all religions should be banished from civilized societies

however, I do see that there is a psychological (bordering psychopathic in many cases) need among too many human beings before we ever see the extinction religion. Not in our life time, probably not ever, until the christian fantasy of "end times" becomes a self fulling prophecy.

[LTX]

249. Pseudo-scientific "analysis" of the "Jew-brain."

Perhaps you can come to my Temple and lecture us about our failings. Then you can follow up with some kind of legislation to place an identifying mark on us so that people can be forewarned about our murderous tendencies.

[Rozlee]

254. Jews aren't the ones being criticized here. It's Zionism.

And Zionists aren't just Jews, many fundamentalist Christians are also in that number. I could just as easily go to the Cornerstone Christian Church and lecture them about the failings of their beliefs in an Israel that will belong to the righteous after the Jews are converted or destroyed. Netanyahu courts and takes money from these Christians at the same time that he knows that they consider Jews that don't convert to Christianity an abomination to God. If there is an identifying mark on such Zionist Jews that court the goodwill of Zionist Christians, it should be one that says, "Dupe."

[2banon]

245. excellent observation : "Master Race and the Chosen People"

Both concepts pave the way for a belief in one's group claiming superiority over others and considering those outside their tribe, race, religion, etc., inferior or damned

[LTX]

250. Indeed, an excellent (although inconveniently nasty) observation. Hand clapping all around.

Jews are obviously the modern day Nazis. And consequently they should be identified, perhaps tattooed and numbered, and then "progressively" purged, or at the very least shunned, by decent society. This is what you are advocating, correct?

[2banon]

251. You completely misrepresent my statement.

I get why you did. But I'm calling you out on it. You don't get a pass.

[LTX]

253. Perhaps you should explain your statement, then.

You don't get a pass either.

[nilesobek]

142. Its really weird isn't it? I mean every time I hear the word, "iron," I cringe.

Or, the "Ministry of this or that." Its very reminiscent of a previous fascist culture of the 20th century. However, I can tell you that 99%+ of the Jewish people are awesome friends. When I was homeless on the road it was Jewish people who helped me the most, gave me jobs and help. All the ones I met work 6 days a week, 12-16 hours a day until their Sabbath. The demonization of any people is an affront to me. Its the damn Zionists and Likud that are at fault here. The people want to believe and are afraid that Netanyahu is right.

[steve2470]

259. OTT and just plain wrong nt

[Iggo]

44. They're fucking insane.

[SCVDem]

45. What does Never Again really mean?

Fuckitall!I don't want my taxes going to this murdering state!

BTW. Weren't Moshe Dayan and Begin terrorists in the 40s?

[regnaD kciN]

160. It means "Never Again...to US"...

...so we can do it to anyone else we please.

[Liberal_Dog]

52. Holy Fucking Shit

I really canot believe this.

[oberliner]

56. This was a blog post by an American

The Times of Israel (which does not review blog posts in advance) deleted it almost immediately.

It was not an op-ed from The Times of Israel.

It was a blog post written by an American that this Israeli newspaper deleted.

The OP does not make this at all clear (as evidenced by some of the replies).

[LordGlenconner]

58. Hey why let facts get in the way

Of an old fashioned hysteria laden rant?

[frylock]

59. but it's not genocide, so stop saying that!!12

[TheKentuckian]

63. Irresponsible framing, Will. Why are you putting up a pulled comment from a blogger

as an official editorial?

[WilliamPitt]

71. Because he's not alone

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/24/a-refreshingly-open-call-for-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians-from-an-israeli-deputy-speaker/

[leftynyc]

73. Did you know the blog writer

is an American?

[oberliner]

74. Not germane to the point that your thread title is a lie

You should change it and/or apologize for being misleading.

[TheKentuckian]

87. Neither are the countless yahoos that proliferate the comments section of every publication

but we'd not much appreciate being lumped in with them on any number of things.

I cannot but think the plausible intent here is to use this to paint a broader picture and subtly hang it around every Israeli's neck but with enough plausible deniability to pretend you weren't.

Not saying that was your actual intent but it doesn't take a fantastic leap of the imagination to get there.

[sinkingfeeling]

97. Did you notice that both writers want only 'quiet' not peace?

[stranger81]

178. That's because Israel cannot tolerate anything approaching justice.

Wouldn't work out so well for them, you know.

[oberliner]

72. It's more than just a "comment from a blogger"

It is a blog post by a guy who has made a lot of blog posts over there. But it is certainly not an "editorial" as the OP falsely claims. An editorial is a piece written by the editors expressing the POV of the newspaper - which this clearly is not.

The fact that the newspaper deleted it so quickly suggests that it does not express their POV and is, quite the contrary, something they do not want to be associated with in any way.

[TheKentuckian]

90. I've got a lot of posts but I'm still just a blogger. I don't see what post volume has to do with it

Dead on the rest of the way but I don't see the material distinction.

[WilliamPitt]

76. I have changed "editorial" to "article" in the OP headline.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/24/a-refreshingly-open-call-for-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians-from-an-israeli-deputy-speaker/

[sufrommich]

84. That's equally dishonest. What really happened:

Israeli newspaper censors blogger calling for genocide.

[redqueen]

92. It's even more dishonest, actually. nt

[TheKentuckian]

155. Damn Will, that is even more of a misdirection and false.

Now you are framing it up as being an article which means it would be editor approved copy representing the publication in full, which is far greater sanction than an editorial.

Dude, I know blogger post definitively lacks the punch you clearly are shooting for but you have doubled down at this point on a lie. I don't think that is what you are about regardless of how passionately you feel.

[leftynyc]

79. It wasn't an article, it was a blog post

(by an American, by the way) that was almost immediately deleted and an apology posted. Aren't things bad enough without people misrepresenting things like this?

[marions ghost]

98. it was posted as "When Genocide is Permissible"

http://a1.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_154,w_300/ur5fxh6buz3y9c3oc0hi.jpg

So the editors did not know about the article being posted with that inflammatory headline? (Which they didn't refer to by title in the apology).

I'm sure the apology was meant sincerely but it's hard to believe they did not see the headline.

I understood that it was an American news source, which makes it no better.

[leftynyc]

212. NO - they didn't know

it's a blog post and if you look at their policy you will see anyone can post a blog post. When they saw it, they deleted it. I wish people were as concerned about what hamas has in their charter as they are for this nobody schmuck making a blog post.

[marions ghost]

236. You can see this a couple of ways

your way

my way

And neither of us knows for sure. But I have some knowledge of the business, and say that for that particular headline to slip past the editor for any amount of time is amazing. Hence the consternation about it. Since we don't know how long it was before they pulled the post, neither of us can say what was going on with the editor. And editors don't talk about their gaffes.

I think it is a valid topic for discussion.

[oberliner]

81. Better Thread Title: Israeli newspaper immediately deletes hateful post by American blogger

That would be a little more factually-based reporting on what happened here.

[Fred Sanders]

242. Yes, the talking point is let's not talk about the thousands of dead...silence!

[redqueen]

93. +1

[lark]

91. Holy shit, they have become the people that drove them out of Europe!

OMG!! I can't believe how craven the US is in supporting this country to increase the wealth of our war machines and get more $$ from the zionists. We can't give healthcare to our poorest children in the south, yet we fund Israel to such a degree that everyone there gets 100% medical coverage. We can't rebuild our roads and bridges and put middle class folks back to work, but we fund their war machines so they can wreak geonocide on the Palestinians.

[brooklynite]

96. Of course, there's good historical precedent...

Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

1 Samuel: 15

[regnaD kciN]

161. Not to mention the destruction of Jericho (Joshua 6:20-21)...

We normally think of the story of the trumpets bringing down the wall of the city. Rarely do people actually read the passage that follows.

So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpets, they raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat; so the people charged straight ahead into the city and captured it. Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.

It should be noted that nowhere in the account do the people of Jericho ever attack the Israelites -- they just happened to be living on land "promised" to the latter, and therefore had to be eliminated.

[Bettie]

99. It is good to know what people are thinking

This guy wrote it and wanted it published.

How many more are saying the very same thing behind closed doors?

Probably more than we'd like to think.

I wish I were surprised by this, but then, I see how many here declare that there are no innocents in Gaza (in various terms) and that the only victims are Israelis.

I think it was a test balloon, to see what reaction it would get.

[GoneFishin]

186. Yep. People could not sit silent to the ongoing slaughter if they did not harbor some

twisted thinking to justify the heinous acts. This guy wrote publicly what others are very probably thinking. Most know to keep it to themselves, because killing innocent women and children is usually taboo, but they demonstrate their approval by their silence or excuses.

[Bettie]

195. Yes, they do

I've seen this thought expressed by a few people in various places.

It is sick and sad.

And I do believe it was a test, just to see how accepted it would be.

I'm glad that most don't approve and those that do mask their approval with arguments that it was taken down, as if that negates the message.

[Baitball Blogger]

100. Geez. This is going to get so bad that there will be a point when every

Allie for Israel will throw their hands up in despair and say, "That's it. Society's moral obligation is paid in full. You're on your own."

[hifiguy]

111. Netanyahoo (sic)

could say "I am putting the Palestinians in concentration camps tomorrow. All of them. Forever" and the US government - of any party - would issue a "strongly worded statement" while doing absolutely nothing to stop it.

[regnaD kciN]

162. Not true!

The U.S. government would declare that "we support Israel's right to act in self-defense" first.

[GoneFishin]

187. Spot on correct.

[senseandsensibility]

105. Edited because I don't know who actually wrote this

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

or the circumstances as well as I thought I did. I'm glad it was deleted.

[brooklynite]

107. UPDATE: 'Palestinian Genocide is Permissible' Writer Yochanan Gordon Launches Twitter Defence

International Business Times:

An American Jewish blogger who called the genocide of the Palestinian people a "responsible" and "permissible" goal has continued to defend his position on social media despite widespread criticism.

New Yorker Yochanan Gordon said there was only one way to "neutralise" Gaza and talked of "rooting out" the territory.

"5 ceasefires all breached through missiles and kidnappings. There is only one way to neutralise the threat. Wake-up!" Gordon tweeted.

"The existence of Israel and the Jewish people is at stake. How do you suggest we neutralise this threat?" he wrote.

[lisby]

108. Holy shit.

My last ounce of respect for them just went down the crapper.

[1monster]

113. What ever happened to "Never Again"? I guess some people think that was meant

only for them. I grew up believing that it was meant for everyone...

[1monster]

119. You are asking me? This appeared in The Times of Israel. It doesn't really matter

who wrote it.

[brooklynite]

125. FWIW, the Times of Israel reportedly doesn't edit its blog submissions.

[maddezmom]

126. Bet they will start after this mess up.

[1monster]

130. Oh how clever! Plausable deniability for the Times of Israel.

[onenote]

144. This didn't appear "in" the Times of Israel

It appeared ON a blogsite that the Times makes available to readers and which is not edited.

[smokey nj]

123. What's really sad, Will, is the number of people in this thread who have a bigger problem with you

than with the guy who advocates genocide.

[oberliner]

128. The American blogger who advocated genocide is despicable

Which is why the Times of Israel deleted his blog post almost immediately.

[onenote]

145. I have a huge problem with the American blogger who posted this crap

I also have a huge problem with people knowingly or unknowingly mischaracterizing it as an expression by the Times of its viewpoint or of the viewpoint of Israelis and/or Jews in general.

[oberliner]

127. How many responses to this thread have people comparing Israel to Nazi Germany?

Someone want to do a rough count?

[jimlup]

132. I did the count...

The answer is ZERO

It appears whatever point you are attempting to make is a strawman.

[LTX]

214. This has got to be satire. If it's not, then you have the wrong avatar.

It should be the Chimpanzee covering his eyes.

[hifiguy]

133. Such a comparison would be inappropriate

but the methodologies and justifications are far too close for comfort if you have within you any humanity and empathy.

[DeSwiss]

134. Well, there are examples aplenty......

...of Israel being given ''deity-approved'' genocide rights. It's just that they're all ancient practices from 4,000 years ago. Not to mention barbaric.

- And practiced by barbarians.....

K&R

[Crowman1979]

136. Not surprised at all.

Just read the Old Testament and you'll find out how the formerly enslaved Jews were all right about enslaving people from the nations they conquered along with slaughtering entire cities.

[pintobean]

141. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Fri Aug 1, 2014, 04:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Not surprised at all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5323313

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is out and out anti semitism and nobody would ever accept this kind of bigotry against the muslim religion here on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 1, 2014, 05:03 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Old Testament wise the poster is correct so I will not hide
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: True but it used to promote antisemitism
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post is fine. Expresses a point of view that is factually correct. I'm sick of posts relating to the Israel-Palestine conflict being hidden for no good reason.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I remember reading stuff like that in the Bible too. The Old Testament is actually a pretty violent book.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Scootaloo]

151. Jurors need to read some goddamned context, I think

[onenote]

147. Just read the US Constitution and you'll find out

how the fundamental law of this country was all right about enslaving people. Of course, that was only 150 years ago, so let's ignore it and condemn Judaism for biblical history several thousand years old.

And while you're brushing up on your history, give some thought to the slaughter that was engaged in against Native Americans so that you could have a nice home here in the US of A.

[Crowman1979]

194. I'm not bashing Judaism. I'm bashing all religion.

Judaism is just one part. The Quaran, Holy Bible and other religious texts are just as deluded.

[Crowman1979]

198. Well no s*** Sherlock!

Don't have this false assumption that I'm giving my own country a pass on all of the horrific violence it has inflicted over the past two centuries.

[sendero]

137. At least they are honest..

... because their policies amount to genocide, period.

[onenote]

146. Who is "they"?

Just curious if you've read any of the posts that point out the origins of this piece of shit blog post.

[LTX]

154. Do you really have to ask?

The patently dishonest o/p that started this thread had one purpose, and one purpose only. To fan the flames of hatred. It did so spectacularly well. I feel reasonably certain that others who have started threads with the identical purpose are jealous of the expertise on display in the o/p here.

Whatever you do, don't wear a kippah outdoors.

[marble falls]

138. Absolutely gobsmacking.

[sadoldgirl]

149. It makes me wonder

How many Israelis of that 95% war approval group are thinking the same thing while asking only for "quiet", but don't dare to use that particular word.

[ColesCountyDem]

152. You need to correct the title of your OP. n/t

[BillZBubb]

156. I don't understand all the hoopla about this.

Israel has been using a gradual ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land since its inception. Since the Israeli land grab in 1967, the Israeli policy of marginalizing the Palestinians has been in constant motion. Israel seizes Palestinian land and forces them to move on either by force or intimidation. The settlements expand.

The settlements prove conclusively Israel's ethnic cleansing strategy. Genocide or ethnic cleansing, the end result is Israel annexation of the useful parts of the West Bank.

This American blogger only put into words what many Israelis think, but won't say out loud. It shouldn't surprise anyone who pays attention.

[cpwm17]

168. That's all true, except the OP needs to be corrected n/t

[4now]

158. Sometimes peoples true feelings come out.

When they are under stress.
You can see why they wanted to hide the hateful post as soon a possible.

[TNNurse]

165. As long as the fanatic Right Wing Christians in governement

Believe that Jesus will come back (and maybe in their lifetime) to Israel, they will do and support ANYTHING to protect the State of Israel. The irony of a Jew or Jews condoning genocide is lost in their rabid hope to see Jesus Christ. I actually wish he would show up and teach them how wrong they are.

I was slow to catch on why Southern Baptists were so pro-Israel, but now I understand what they are thinking.

[KamaAina]

166. That would be "Never".

[LittleBlue]

167. "I didn't intend to hurt anyone"

Yeah it's just genocide, that never hurt anyone. lol

Israel and her blind defenders have really jumped the shark this time.

[NealK]

169. Thanks, Will.

Genocide Is Permissible. Lets repeat that... Fucking butchers.

[DeadLetterOffice]

170. Some of the posts on this thread make me ill.

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)

As a human being, I deplore the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza -- they make me sick. I think Netanyahu and his cronies should be ousted forthwith and charged with war crimes. I think the US should stop funding this insanity immediately.

As a Jewish woman, some of the posts in this thread have also made me sick to my stomach. Particularly the ones which state or strongly imply:
-- Jews in general/lots of Jews support the genocide of the Palestinian people (posts #27, #37, #99, #149)
-- Jews are acting like Nazi's/WWII Germans (#39, #43, #67, #91, #114)
-- Jews have a history of enslaving and killing off people so why is anyone surprised that they're doing it again (#96, #129, #134, #136, #161)
-- Jews think 'never again' only applies to them (#9, #32, #113, #160)
-- Jews are barbarians (#134)

We Jewish folk share a religion, and/or a cultural heritage -- we don't have some bizarre hive mind that makes us all think alike or agree with everything the Israeli government does. Jewish individuals are INDIVIDUALS first and foremost. And those posts I pointed out seem to have lost track of that.

When did painting an entire group in such a negative way become acceptable at DU?

I've been here well over a year and this is the first time I've thought 'I don't feel safe here right now.'

Wtf, DU?

[sufrommich]

174. Notice how many times this lone blogger is

referred to as "they". Yeah,DU has jumped the shark.

[sadoldgirl]

179. I think that you are perfectly safe here.

All generalizations are somewhat dangerous. Having quite a number of Jewish friends, who deplore what the state of Israel has been and is doing now. Right now the anger against the Israeli government is very strong here, but it is not directed at you. Please, don't take it personally. Just think of it as a total frustration from many on this forum, since we know that we are helpless and know that our own government has put on the blinders. Peace!

[DeadLetterOffice]

188. When posters stop saying "Israeli government" and start saying "Jews" or even "Israelis"...

... it starts feeling very personal.

Imagine someone posts that the Russian people don't care about civilian casualties, which we know because (1) Putin helped the rebels shoot down a civilian airliner, and (2) Putin is extremely popular in Russia. And then someone else posts about how awful a history Russia has had for the last 5000 years and how we shouldn't be surprised that they don't care about civilian casualties. And someone else speculates about how ex-pat Russians, or people of Russian descent, probably feel the same way about what the Russian government is doing.

It kinda feels like that.

Btw - the 'safety' thing is psychological, not physical -- never being quite sure when you're going to come across a post that trips your trigger can make things a little harrowing. I do recognize that it's my issue, not anyone else's responsibility.

[LTX]

216. One quibble. The safety issue may not be physical in the U.S. Yet.

But I landed at DeGaul Wednesday morning, and the safety issue is physical here.

[BillZBubb]

181. You have not honestly commented on my post, #156

I never made a blanket statement about Jews, in fact I made sure not to do so. I did say that many Israelis likely support the views in the article in question. Not all, not most, but many. I gave my evidence for such a belief.

For you to mischaracterize what I said in such a way makes me wonder about all the other posts you accused.

I am sorry if painting Israel in a negative way frightens you, but Israel is doing the painting, not me.

[DeadLetterOffice]

184. Painting the Israeli government in a negative way does not frighten me.

And if I misapprehend the similarity between the phrases "many Israelis" (yours) and "lots of Jews" (mine), then I sincerely apologize. But from here they really do seem pretty much the same.

[BillZBubb]

190. So, in your search for latent anti-Semitism, you equate Israel and the Jews?

That smacks of paranoia. It seems you have the belief that anyone criticizing Israel or Israelis is attacking Jews in general. And, you project that bias into an argument.

To anyone without prejudice "many Israelis" is far, far different than "lots of Jews". To someone hypersensitive or distrustful of others motives, apparently not.

[DeadLetterOffice]

191. Thank you for the clarification of your meaning.

I will trust your assertion that *you* do not equate "many Israelis" and "lots of Jews," and edit my original post accordingly.

I will point out however that you could have accomplished your clarification without calling me paranoid, hypersensitive, and distrustful. In general, insulting people doesn't much win them over to your point of view. Just a thought. And I do believe I've stated quite clearly that I think anyone criticizing the Israeli government is simply showing common sense and intelligence.

[GoneFishin]

193. No doubt that bigots and racists exist, but I interpret the frustration

here as mostly directed toward government policies, not individuals.

[1monster]

204. Since you mentioned my post (#113) in your post, allow me to tell you

my post was a visceral reaction to the entry by Yochanan Gordon that was posted in the Times of Israel and another location.

I'm not sure how

'What ever happened to "Never Again"? I guess some people think that was meant only for them. I grew up believing that it was meant for everyone...'

came to mean all people of the Jewish heritage (bold added by me). I used the word "some" advisedly, because that is just what I meant.

As for anti-semitism, I'm told that my maternal great-grandparents were Jewish, but as my mother was adopted after the death of her mother, I never met them. So, apparently, I'm partially Semite myself and I am not a self-hater.

I have not lived your life, so I cannot necessarily understand you taking something so personally that was not directed at you at all.

People are people regardless of heritage, color, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. None of that matters to me at all. It is how people act and treat others that is important to me.

Shalom

[Behind the Aegis]

205. Happens every time.

If you go to some other threads you can see posters justifying/excusing anti-Semitism, calls for Jews to be purged from Israel, even "it all the Jews' fault." At least the last one finally got banned, surely a victim of the Zionist agenda.

[JI7]

206. which one got banned ?

the one i thought you were talking about is still here .

[Behind the Aegis]

207. This one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=161457

Like Billy McKinney said...It's the damn Jews!..sorry, but it's the truth.

6-1 hide.

[JI7]

257. good

i alerted on that one. .

another one i alerted on was recently banned also. but the post i alerted was allowed to stay . but he said something similar again and was finally banned.

and these are both long time posters here .

[alp227]

210. Decided to examine each post:

Alerted on #'s 27, 43. 27 was kept 3-4 - NONE of the "leave it alone" voters had ANY explanation.

#43 was kept 2-5.

#37, #99, and #149 are very speculative and unfounded for predicting people's thoughts, but could have a smidgen of truth.

#39 merely points out that the author of the article is advocating the same terminology that accurately describes Nazi German's actions!

#67 is only talking about the article not Jews in general!

#91, the use of "$$ from the zionists" is problematic. And accusing Israeli govt of "genocide" - too strong a word.

#114, so what facts do you know that debunk such a claim about the concepts of "Master Race" and "Chosen People"?

#96: Just quotes the Bible. What's your interpretation of that passage. And do you not think religion influences the pro-Israeli side?

#129: Comparing Israelis to Rwandans: Problematic, again.

#134: The "barbarians" reference probably refers to the old testament times not modern Israelis.

#136: Kept in a 1-6 decision (see reply 141). So can you show anything factually incorrect about that post?

#161: Again just dissecting the Jewish religion.

#9: Your description doesn't match what this post is saying.

#32: Ditto

#113: You're right about this.

#160: You're right too.

[Behind the Aegis]

217. a small comment.

#114, so what facts do you know that debunk such a claim about the concepts of "Master Race" and "Chosen People"?

The "Chosen People" refers to Jews, not Israelis. It also doesn't imply Jews are better, as "Master Race" does, it indicates Jews were "chosen" by G-d to receive His law or that Jews "choose" to follow the laws of G-d. It is not about racial superiority. So, in essence, the poster is creating a false analogy to Nazis and JEWS, not ISRAELIS.

[alp227]

246. Ok. Alerted it, was already alerted yesterday

Kept 2-5.

[McCamy Taylor]

171. No one would post this under their own name. Would they?

Maybe it is a prank. Maybe someone else wrote it and posted it under his name. Mr. Gordon, if you did not write this you need to get out here and defend yourself. This is some crazy shit that has your name on it.

[JI7]

173. there are hateful people on both sides

you can look to the US and teabaggers with their racism , their terrorizing little kids , but that doesn't make us all like them.

[cpwm17]

176. You should change the OP, or delete it

This appears to be one blogger who only represents himself. He's not alone in his views and Israel's actions are really bad, but that doesn't change the fact this blogger is just some nobody with access to a keyboard.

[Purveyor]

197. Interesting indeed. Thank you for posting. +1 eom

[Egnever]

202. Wooohooo another intentionally misleading post from WP

You must be so proud.

[ColesCountyDem]

215. Notice how often he's been asked to change the thread title, but hasn't done so?

Journalistic integrity at its finest.

[Jesus Malverde]

203. Apology from Yochanan Gordon

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

I wish to express deep regret and beg forgiveness for an article I authored which was posted on 5TJT.com, Times of Israel and was tweeted and shared the world over.

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

With that said I pray and hope for a quick peaceful end to the hostilities and that all people learn to coexist with each other in creating a better world for us all.

Yochanan Gordon

http://5tjt.com/apology-from-yochanan-gordon/

[lovemydog]

232. Interesting.

[Enthusiast]

225. I have no words.

[seveneyes]

229. Gaza imam calls for Jews’ extermination

http://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-imam-calls-for-extermination-of-jews/#ixzz38za6xu3h

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

252. Thanks for posting this seveneyes

Lately, most of my posts have been in condemnation of the mass killing being carried out by Israel on innocent women and children in Gaza. But if we are truly liberals supportive of human rights, peace, and against racism, we have to give some attention to the fact that others in Gaza are not exactly boy scouts. Some of them are worthless pieces of religious fundamentalist fanatical shit. This probably deserves an OP of its own.

“”Our doctrine in fighting you (the Jews) is that we will totally exterminate you,” he says. “We will not leave a single one of you alive, because you are alien usurpers of the land and eternal mercenaries.”

[OregonBlue]

235. So now Israel has become the Facist state. Ugly.

[cpwm17]

237. It was a lone American blogger

Regardless of what one thinks of Israel's actions (I think they're unforgivable) the OP isn't entirely accurate and can't be justified. It was just one blogger's posting that was quickly deleted.

[OregonBlue]

241. Yes, I read he was fired but still, how many Israelis agree with him? Lots I suspect.

[TransitJohn]

239. Fuck Ron Paul! Nader! Snowden boxes!

Thanks for posting.

[bigtree]

240. writer got shitcanned today

Talking Points Memo ?@TPM 1h

Times of Israel gives writer the boot after "unacceptable" genocide post: http://bit.ly/1qzJK46

[Zorra]

243. Frightening what conservatives expose about what they really believe when they let their guard

down.

Mr. Manifest Destiny is alive and well and as sick as ever in the new millenium.

[DJ13]

244. Sad

“Monsters exist, but they are too few in number to be truly dangerous. More dangerous are the common men, the functionaries ready to believe and to act without asking questions.”
― Primo Levi

[2banon]

248. I think he meant to say Palestinian "gentrification" is ok n/t

[WinkyDink]

258. Every nation has its nuts.