Danziger goes there (Warsaw Ghetto)

[n2doc]

[BillZBubb]

1. Will this toon be flagged as "hurtful, etc"?

Interesting to see.

[n2doc]

2. Well there is a thread with 72 recs so far making the same comparison

So hopefully this can stay.

[BillZBubb]

3. I certainly hope it stays...

but the way things have been going lately...

[Warpy]

37. I've had a thread reply make it for a few days

comparing some of the tunnels to the sewers under the Warsaw Ghetto used to bring in necessary items not permitted by the blockade to be sold at inflated prices in Gaza.

Danziger went there because you have to go there to understand this thing. Our news media are worse than useless.

[Billy Budd]

68. Israel censors

The simple fact of that matter is that the American media is largely in the tank for Israel and people are afraid to point out that America is Israel’s best and only friend for a reason, and when Israel wants to barf up bombs all over the Palestinians, America will be standing there ready to hold Israel’s hair back so that it doesn’t get any on itself......beware this post may be Jury censored

[DeSwiss]

15. As long as it doesn't mention ''her'' in a whimsical, ironic, satirical......

...or plain old grown-up political manner, it's good. What's ''hurtful'' is always relative in a free society.

- Although Orwell didn't think so.....


“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ~George Orwell

[Fred Sanders]

4. "I went there and I lived", is now on my cars' bumper sticker.

"There" being making the contrast and comparison....I think we are right and they are wrong.

[4now]

9. It was a very brave post.

Thanks for showing that one can stand up to the apologists and survive.

[sabrina 1]

63. I think a lot of people are intimidated by the bullying when it comes to this topic.

So you deserve credit for removing the veil of fear and 'going there'. If the shoe fits, too bad if some try to claim it doesn't. Facts are facts and Israel should get no more special treatment on these Dem forums than any other sovereign nation. I don't get it, when they are wrong they are wrong and we will say so, if not here, we will simply say it somewhere else.

The world's news papers are now filled with commenters horrified by the Israeli Govt's slaughter of the Palestinian children, even more angry at those trying to justify it somehow. Some may have lost their ability to feel empathy even for innocent little children but thankfully it appears MOST human beings around the world, have not.

[Warpy]

5. He must be reading DU

I'm not the only one who noticed a parallel or two, especially with the tunnels. People herded into the Warsaw Ghetto to die used the sewers under the city.

[Fred Sanders]

6. The parallels can not be ignored.

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (Yiddish: אױפֿשטאַנד אין װאַרשעװער געטאָ; Polish: powstanie w getcie warszawskim; German: Aufstand im Warschauer Ghetto) was the 1943 act of Jewish resistance that arose within the Warsaw Ghetto in German-occupied Poland during World War II, and which opposed Nazi Germany's final effort to transport the remaining Ghetto population to Treblinka extermination camp. The most significant portion of the rebellion took place from 19 April, and ended when the poorly armed and supplied resistance was crushed by the Germans, who officially finished their operation to liquidate the Ghetto on 16 May. It was the largest single revolt by Jews during World War II.[3]

[Billy Budd]

7. One has to be careful with the subject of Israel and posting privileges

If one criticizes Israel one can easily be taken to a Jury...This even parallels The Warsaw Ghetto with Gaza which is absolutely forbidden....

[4now]

8. If you criticize Israel it is sent to the jury.

Usually with a comment that you might be anti-semitic.

[question everything]

10. Surely you made a mistake?

Criticizing anti semitic comments, real anti semitic, not anti Israel are hidden by jury. 7-0, 6-1.

[PatrynXX]

47. my aunt and my cousin are Jewish

I don't take this lightly. I think Bibi is working for Hamas. Not entirely sure if I would consider him totally Jewish. He is very Israeli

[randome]

17. On the subject of religion, too.

I had my 2nd hide in 13 years over pointing out that those who cling to their religion do as much to enable the killers as anyone.

I won't whine about the jury system itself, which is always hit and miss. But one jury member who voted to hide said my remark was 'stupid'.

As if there would be a Democratic Underground without stupid posts.

But yes, you're right, you need to negotiate a mine field if you want to criticize Israel these days. That's just the way they want it, too.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Billy Budd]

22. I was followed all over DU

because I posted against Israel. They flagged a post I made about Ukraine [this was less than an hour after flagging me on an Israel post]. In order to get me hidden they lied to the Jury and attributed to the author I had cited a quote on "white people" that came from Pat Buchanan who was not the author I cited [ I had excerpted an article by Paul Craig Roberts] ...that quote was cited as the reason for two Jurors [who commented not all jurors do ] to want it hidden....there was a total of four of my comment flagged in less than an hour after I posted a criticism of Israel....beware the Jury system and manipulation of it ....

[Hekate]

11. You tell'm, Danziger

[question everything]

12. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did not have rockets to send over onto Poland

They wished they had.

[Capt. Obvious]

13. They probably wished they had stealth bombers too

or any other weapon that hadn't been invented yet.

[dsc]

25. rockets did exist during ww2

the victory rocket from Germany was the basis for our apollo program.

[Capt. Obvious]

43. The V-1 was launched 3 years after the Warsaw Ghetto was walled in

and 1 year after the uprising.

So yes, there were rockets in WW2 but not during the time of the Warsaw Ghetto.

[EX500rider]

44. No, the Katyusha rockets were developed in 1938.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher

[Capt. Obvious]

45. I stand corrected

I always thought the V-1 was the first.

[n2doc]

14. And if they had access to nukes they probably would have used them

It wasn't from a lack of effort that they failed

"When we invaded the Ghetto for the first time, the Jews and the Polish bandits succeeded in repelling the participating units, including tanks and armored cars, by a well-prepared concentration of fire. (...) The main Jewish battle group, mixed with Polish bandits, had already retired during the first and second day to the so-called Muranowski Square. There, it was reinforced by a considerable number of Polish bandits. Its plan was to hold the Ghetto by every means in order to prevent us from invading it. (...) Time and again Polish bandits found refuge in the Ghetto and remained there undisturbed, since we had no forces at our disposal to comb out this maze. (...) One such battle group succeeded in mounting a truck by ascending from a sewer in the so-called Prosta [Street], and in escaping with it (about 30 to 35 bandits). (...) The bandits and Jews – there were Polish bandits among these gangs armed with carbines, small arms, and in one case a light machine gun – mounted the truck and drove away in an unknown direction."

—Jürgen Stroop, 1943[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

[question everything]

23. The bandits and the Jews... Nice

and people claim there is no anti-semitism on DU.

Nice to know that the words of the Nazis are now revered here.

[n2doc]

26. Hide behind anti-semitism name calling. Go ahead, it is all you have.

[question everything]

30. Oh, you mean the Nazis were not anti-Semitic? Must be news for them

and for present days Germans.

As for who is hiding, you may want to look at a mirror. Because, this really is what you have.

[n2doc]

36. I am sure you can fully understand what I said, and what that quote was about

That you continue to troll means "goodbye"

[aikoaiko]

32. And the jury results are in....

On Thu Jul 31, 2014, 04:29 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The bandits and the Jews... Nice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5318058

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Claiming DU revers the words of Nazis is over the top. This poster had 3 vicious attacks hidden in one thread. I think they are trying to flame out.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 31, 2014, 04:37 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's my policy to leave all posts alone. If you object to what is said, reply with specific criticism.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[question everything]

33. And you had problem with that because?

[aikoaiko]

34. I had no problem with it. What makes you think I did?

Im just reporting the results of a jury on which I served.

[George II]

51. I'm not sure, but isn't revealing the details of a jury decision prohibited?

[Capt. Obvious]

52. No

[Capt. Obvious]

46. Quoting Wikipedia is a well know trick of anti-Semites.

[DeSwiss]

18. No they didn't. So they threw everything that they did have.

Including themselves. While the world watched. And if the Palestinians soon conclude the same thing, they will likely repeat history. Which according to Santayana, is the purview of savages and children.

- Which to me, seems about right....

''Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.''

~George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, - 1905

[center][/center]

[killbotfactory]

35. Now justify the ever expananding settlements.

And the constant harassment and bulldozing of Palestinian homes and farms.

The Christian family refusing to give up its Bethlehem hill farm
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27883685

Israeli Settlers Chop down more Palestinian Olive Trees (having destroyed 800,000 since 1967)
http://www.juancole.com/2013/10/settlers-palestinian-destroyed.html

[COLGATE4]

29. God - not these "maps" again.

They have been debunked over and over again by prior posts here on DU.

[druidity33]

40. links please...

because i've never seen 'debunking' of these maps on DU.

[Maedhros]

55. The "debunking" consists of pointing out that large swaths of the map are empty desert

and that some parts were annexed from lands not originally Palestinian.

However, if one considers just the West Bank, one can see clearly how Israel has systematically stolen land granted to Palestine by the 1947 treaty. Try as they might, the pro-Likud faction here on DU can't make that go away.

[COLGATE4]

61. Too late at night to go back and look for them.

Believe it if you care to, don't if you don't. There have been at least 3 posts in the last 4 days detailing all the problems with the presentation in these maps. Just from memory, a few things - 1) Maps showing few Jews in Palestine at time of Partition. Wrong. Under the Ottomans, Jews were not allowed to own land. Therefore, only a few of the wealthier (or better connected) Jews actually appear as owners of their land, not shown on the maps. 2) The more recent maps pretend that West Bank and Gaza were always Palestinian. No. West Bank is Jordanian, Gaza was Egyptian. To show that as being all "Palestine" is just dishonest. 3) The final map is just an artist's rendition of the borders as proposed in Oslo II. It never existed.

[oberliner]

54. In 1917 wasn't all of Palestine occupied by the British?

Pretty sure most of that land was not under Palestinian control at that time which putting the whole thing in yellow seems to suggest.

[BlueMTexpat]

38. No, it is NOT acceptable for militants to fire rockets

into Israel, but ...

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people,[1] mostly civilians, and injured thousands, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace.[2] Medical studies in Sderot, the Israeli city closest to the Gaza Strip, have documented a post-traumatic stress disorder incidence among young children of almost 50%, as well as high rates of depression and miscarriage.[3][4][5] A public opinion poll conducted in March 2013 found that most Palestinians do not support firing rockets at Israel from the Gaza Strip.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

28 Israeli deaths in 13 years versus >1300 Palestinian deaths in a few weeks.

Think about it. If you would feel differently if the death toll were reversed, then there is something very wrong with you.

Both are wrong. Death is death. Murder is murder. And this murder is disproportionate collective punishment of a hapless population with literally nowhere else to go except into the sea.

[PatrynXX]

48. well the rockets are being shot w/o eyes

mostly falling nowhere. they are being thrown up their to provoke like Hannity likes to do.

[Octafish]

16. Danziger is fearless.

Details: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6843822

[Raster]

65. Bravo, Danziger, Bravo!

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Last of Warsaw Ghetto Survivors Calls for Rebellion Against Israeli Occupation

On Yom Ha-Shoah, one of the few remaining living survivors of the Warsaw Ghetto, Chavka Fulman-Raban, delivered a fierce denunciation of evil and injustice, including the Israeli Occupation. Her speech was offered to guests at the ceremony of Beit Lohamey Ha-Getaot (the Ghetto-Fighters House).

I’ve translated it based on the speech she uploaded to Facebook:

There is a unity in this commemoration–70 years since the [Warsaw Ghetto] Rebellion. We’re also nearing the end of the Shoah generation and the last of the [ghetto] fighters. Most of you in front of me, you are the generations of continuity: the second, third and fourth generations. I have mixed emotions and thoughts about the past, present, and future.

I will tell you about one experience from that time. Spring 1942. I was a courier for an underground operation. I arrived to visit my friend from the youth movement, Dror Bachrubishov, in occupied eastern Poland very close to the Nazis.

I stood in the small railroad station and from the window I could make out, on a field next to the railroad tracks, a great multitude, thousands of men, women, and children. Overseeing them were Germans running wild on horseback. A few meters from me, through the window, I saw four boys digging a hole. The soldiers shot them and they fell into it. The next morning the field was empty. At night, the trains had gone on their way: to the camps, to death.


http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/04/09/last-of-warsaw-ghetto-survivors-calls-for-rebellion-against-israeli-occupation/

[HooptieWagon]

49. +1000

[DeSwiss]

20. K&R

- When the Warsaw Uprising was over, the Nazis razed all the buildings and turned the ghetto into a concentration camp.

[ALBliberal]

21. please tell me about these two pictures thanks

One from Warsaw one from Gaza?

[DeSwiss]

62. The answer is....

...yes, and yes.

- History repeating itself before our very eyes.....

[ALBliberal]

66. the similarity of these two pictures says so much thanks

[DeSwiss]

67. De nada.

[leftstreet]

24. DURec

[malaise]

27. Well said

The parallels are frightening.
Wake up world - we said never again.

[JaydenD]

31. The ugly truth.

[emsimon33]

39. My heart breaks for those suffering in Gaza

[L0oniX]

41. K & R

[BlancheSplanchnik]

42. truly.

I've been reading the re-release, new translation of Night, by Elie Wiezel.

[George II]

50. There isn't even a remote resemblance between the two.

[CTyankee]

53. Did Danziger ask anyone Jewish what they thought about this comparison?

I am just asking.

[Baclava]

56. Not comparable-250,000 to 300,000 Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto were sent to their deaths at Treblinka

It is estimated that 100,000 died in the ghetto either as a result of starvation or disease. On April 19th 1943, a large force of soldiers entered the ghetto. Within four days they had gained control of most of the ghetto and in the process destroyed whole blocks of buildings and killed anyone who they saw. It is thought that over 55,000 people were killed during the uprising.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/warsaw_ghetto.htm

[840high]

57. ...

[McCamy Taylor]

60. When you put it like that, you make me worry that someone is keeping score

and that until the magic number is reached, the killing will continue. Surely that is not what you meant, is it? Murder is murder, whether it is murder of one innocent or ten or one hundred. If the number of innocents makes its worse, then the US is a bigger villain than the Nazis for dropping the A-Bombs on Japan---more kills per second than anyone else in history.

[DeSwiss]

64. It's not about keeping score.

- And regardless, the Nazis got to that 250,000 - 300,000 number by starting with the number 1.

"Life is lived anecdotally, not algorithmically. And anecdotal evidence is not allowed in the new digital corpocracy. As one poster on Democratic Underground put it, “Anecdotal now has this enforced meaning such that no one is supposed to believe what they experience, what they see, hear, taste, smell, etc. The Powers That Be have basically extinguished the notion of inductive reasoning. Everything has to be replicated in a laboratory and since 90% of all the labs in this nation are operated by Corporate Sponsored monies, not much truth comes out of them.”

~Joe Bageant, Algorithms and Red Wine

[McCamy Taylor]

58. Oh what a difference a week makes.

And Israel is the one that made all the difference.

[McCamy Taylor]

59. July 17, I posted this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025254459

I was hoping that someone in Israel would notice and maybe think for a second "Hey, we don't want to be like them!"

But I guess no one in Israel was thinking.