ok, destroy the tunnels

[handmade34]

and quit killing the children

http://blogs.forward.com/jj-goldberg/202874/gaza-tunnels-how-they-work-what-israel-knew/

"Gaza Tunnels: How They Work, What Israel Knew"

There’s a lively debate right now in the Hebrew press over whether or not Israel realized the full extent of the threat. That is, given that the threat’s existence was long known, is there any truth to the claim that Israel was “surprised”? I’ve got some links below to follow the debate if your Hebrew is up to it. It can’t be understated how misleading the English-language reporting on the topic has been; more on that below, after the translation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28582853

"Israel 'to destroy' Hamas Gaza tunnels - Netanyahu"

Reports from Israel suggest the discovery of the tunnels - and the reality that infiltrators have used them to kill Israelis inside their own country - has shocked many Israelis and bolstered support for the operation.

It launched a ground operation to destroy the tunnels on the night of 17 July, and insists that any ceasefire deal includes the right to continue that mission.

Israel occupied Gaza in the 1967 Middle East war and only pulled its troops and settlers out in 2005.

Israel considered this the end of the occupation, but it still exercises control over most of Gaza's borders, water and airspace. Egypt controls Gaza's southern border.

Hamas says it will not stop fighting until a blockade, maintained by both Israel and Egypt, is lifted.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/7/gaza-tunnels-hamasisraelidf.html

"Hamas' attack tunnels are transforming war with Israel"

[Historic NY]

1. Its HAMAS....

they are at war and they don't care either. The underground war is really an underground war.

[RobertEarl]

12. Underground is the only safe place for women and kids

That's the real reason for the hatred of the tunnels. Missile and air-dropped bombs can't destroy the safe underground bunkers where the women and children can hide.

[malaise]

2. If you believe that shit about the tunnels

I have a bridge to sell

[YarnAddict]

3. Not sure what you mean . . .

Are you saying there are no tunnels?
Do you think the tunnels aren't being used to attack Israelis?
Do you mean that Israel won't stop the attacks if the tunnels are destroyed?

[WinkyDink]

8. Would you believe Hamas itself? 'Cause they videotaped themselves emerging from one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2710200/Shocking-footage-shows-Hamas-militants-attacking-Israeli-army-outpost-hidden-tunnel-slaughtering-guards.html

[treestar]

4. A tunnel that opens in Israel itself?

And this highly conscious security state missed that?

[jberryhill]

5. you'd think it would be easier...

To plug them from the Israeli side, instead of shelling buildings on the Gaza side.

[hack89]

10. It is nearly impossible detect deep tunnels like Hamas has built

ground penetrating radar only penetrates a couple of yards - these things are 60 feet deep. Seismic monitoring can be avoided by digging by hand instead of using mechanical excavators.

The other problem is that they are not built with exits - the last short section of the tunnel to the surface is not actually dug until right before the tunnel is used so it is not an issue of searching Israelis territory for hidden exits.

The reason buildings in Gaza are destroyed is that is where Hamas build the tunnel entrances. The tunnels also go under the buildings so any attempt to destroy them will undoubtedly destroy or damage the buildings above them.

[Historic NY]

13. Hows that working on the US border....

even with sensors they go undetected. The No. Vietnamese had them as a virtual underground city.

[jberryhill]

14. It goes pretty well

What's not going well is ordinary gun violence which kills some 18,000 people a year in the US, and yet we don't shell cities into rubble over it.

If the point is to plug the tunnels, then doing it from the end where the tunnel comes out is going to be a whole lot more effective than doing it by shelling some random building somewhere, which does not even put a tunnel out of commission.

However, the US does do periodic sweeps with ground penetrating radar and other technology. Certainly, if they were being used for mass organized violence, you bet there would be seismic sensors along the entire border.

Tunnelling activity is not difficult to seismically detect, and shelling Tijuana would be a stupid approach to dealing with smuggling tunnels.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-drug-tunnels-rail-systems-found-u-mexico-163343844--finance.html

Since 2006, federal authorities have detected at least 80 cross-border smuggling tunnels, most of them in California and Arizona, and seized some 100 tons of narcotics associated with them.

If you are referring to the recent wave of minors crossing the border, that has nothing to do with tunnels. In fact, their whole plan is to find and surrender to the first border agent they see, so they can get into the process. That's very different from smugglers and laborers.

[WinkyDink]

7. They didn't miss them. (See: Current attacks.)

[NightWatcher]

6. Maybe stop the blockade and allow them to get humanitarian goods through propper channels

If Israel stops shitting on the people, maybe they'll stop feeling the need to lob rockets back at them. They have to smuggle everything through those tunnels (food, medicine, and yes, weapons to fight back with)

[TheKentuckian]

9. The blockade is in place to prevent weapons and personnel coming in

and yes weapons and personnel were coming in through "propper channels".

You relentlessly attack folks refusing to even accept they have a right to exist, they will move to destroy or reduce your capacity to do so if they can and will have ever less concerned about how well you are treated in the process.
Folks will not accept the return of wide spread, consistent terror attacks, with hardened and trained operatives and more sophisticated weapons being used against themselves as "peace".

[hack89]

11. Hamas refuses to allow an inspection regime of incoming goods

to ensure they cannot rearm.