Kids in the car: How do we solve the problem?

[Jackpine Radical]

As long as the focus is on blaming the negligent person, the solutions will tend to focus on punishing that person; however, since the problem has to do with common human faults such as forgetfulness, distraction and dissociation, no amount of threat or harsh punishment will be of much help.

If, instead, we focus on prevention, we might look into devices that remind the driver that there's a kid in the car. I could well imagine warning devices such as the ones we already have for keys left in the ignition, unfastened seatbelts, etc. For example, a system could be designed such that if a kid is present in a back-seat kiddie seat (detected by weight), an alarm goes off when the driver opens the door. That sort of solution is designed to overcome human frailties of attention, and will save lives.

This is really a minor engineering problem, less expensive than airbags.

[CBGLuthier]

1. RFID Bracelet with a very limited range?

Keyed to a cellphone or other device app or even another master bracelet or smartwatch or something and if contact is lost an alarm could go off.

The problem though is the "perfect parent brigade" would never bother with such devices so we almost need something mandatory tied into the use of the car seat.

[treestar]

12. that's the very issue

people are so convinced they would never do this.

[Politicalboi]

2. Cars need motion sensors and breath sensors

Or weight sensors or all 3. We not only have a kid car problem, we have a dog car problem too. Cars are traps to even bigger kids. Locks that won't let you open doors or windows. If panic sets in, a kid could pass out and die.

[uppityperson]

3. My first thought is getting an alarm that needs to be set, but then if you forget to set it.

A weight sensor in the back seat maybe, though some of us carry stuff back there so we'd need to be able to turn it off. In which case if it got annoying a parent would turn it off and it wouldn't be on when needed.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. It could be wired to work in conjunction with a seatbelt.

Not having small kids, I'm not sure, but I think most kiddie seats are fastened in place with seatbelts, no? Thus a combination of weight + fastened seatbelt + opened door (or removal of key from ignition) would trigger it.

[uppityperson]

9. That is a good idea

[AngryOldDem]

4. I've heard this suggestion:

Put something like a phone or a gym bag in the back seat with the baby. Something that you will automatically miss if you get out of the car without it.

This was brought up in a radio discussion I heard about these deaths.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. Great. This post is setting off some thought.

All ideas so far are probably better than mine, which is wonderful!

(I imagine that if I had posted this on "Certain Other Sites," all I would have gotten is demented rants about gubmint interference.)

[Ilsa]

6. Tie some sort of wireless notification to

Cellphones or even a new key fob. Make it weight dependent. If the carseat is full, the key fob annoyingly dings an alarm.

[NightWatcher]

7. Free convertibles with the birth of a baby

Then on hot days we drive around with the top down. If you forget the kid, they'll scream and somebody will notice before the kid overheats.

[treestar]

11. Venting system for the car?

Maybe a possibility. To keep it from heating up like an oven. Even without kids, that would be a nice feature when you get in on a hot day.

[IDemo]

25. Like this?

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2014/07/23/police-dogs-heat-deadly/13068053/

[treestar]

43. very interesting, thanks!

The announcer does raise one issue - don't use that to leave the child in the car purposely. There are idiots who would do that.

[treestar]

10. True, there are alarms for everything else now

Can't get out of the car and leave the lights, keys, etc., because something beeps. It's typical of 21st century thought to believe there must be a device that will work here.

[redqueen]

13. Why not just stress the importance of checking the back seat when exiting the car?

We expect parents to do all kinds of things without the aid of gadgets. I don't know why this one simple act is apparently considered an unrealistic demand.

[leftstreet]

14. Awareness campaign sounds good

Talk of tech gadgets overlooks % of people driving used and older cars, income restraints, etc

[redqueen]

17. Yeah exactly ... it requires no smart phone, no new investments... just a new habit.

I think we feel so bad for parents who mess up this way that we are going overboard in looking at it as something we could never prevent on our own.

[mike_c]

39. because apparently it is, and demonizing people for distraction in a distracting world...

...is not likely to solve the problem. However, it always feels good to point out other peoples' shortcomings.

I don't think anyone leaves the house in the morning thinking "Today's the day I'm gonna leave my kid in the car." Life intervenes, shit happens, people are under pressure to be in three places and do seven things at once. Maybe a better solution is to not have children unless your life is tranquil and predictable, but that's completely unrealistic for most people. I agree with the OP-- this is a social problem, not an individual one. It keeps repeating. We need to accept that it WILL happen in today's world, and devise ways to mitigate the problem.

[treestar]

44. Good idea too

Publicize it and recommend making a check of the back every time you get out of the car - that could develop into a habit.

[demmiblue]

15. There is an app for that:

WINSTON-SALEM – A Surry County couple came up with a new app that reminds parents their children are in the backseat of their car. Kimberly and Shaun Johnston developed "Precious Cargo" with the help of one of their friends, Casey Leftwich, and hope it will prevent children from dying in hot cars.

"We want to save a life. It's not about money, it's not about recognition. We want to save a life. We want to prevent at least one child from suffering from a heat stroke or a heat-related death," Kimberly said.

The couple said they've been working on the app for a year. They said they came up with the idea after researching online and were shocked by the number of children who have died from being left in hot cars.

"Nobody is immune. Your mind is just as susceptible to forgetfulness as everyone else," Kimberly said.

The app works by connecting with the Bluetooth device in your car. Whenever you turn off your car, the app sets off an alarm to remind you of your child in the backseat. In the near future, the app will also be able to use the GPS on your phone and will set off your alarm when you reach your destination.

The app will be available Wednesday for download for Android and Apple devices. The Johnstons said they moved up the release date after learning about the Georgia boy who died in a hot car two weeks ago.

http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news/local/2014/07/01/app-prevent-hot-car-deaths/11953461/

Obviously, there are problems associated with this... lack of appropriate phone, lack of Bluetooth capability, disabling the app, etc. It is, however, a start. I would like to see hospitals give out information regarding this issue upon maternal/infant discharge (maybe even free coupons for apps like the one I linked to).

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. I just can't figure out how/why people do this in the first place

Unless you're whacked out of your mind, intoxicated, under the influence, etc., you don't just "forget" to take your infant, child, dog, etc. out of the car when you get out of it...........period- and it's just not safe to leave ANY kids alone in a car for any length of time, especially during extreme weather conditions. Parental negligence, stupidity, substance abuse problems, etc. Are the real culprits here, though unless we can think of some safety measures that we can put in cars, I'm not sure how to prevent injury/death.

[unblock]

23. read up on the topic first, please. it's overstressed, overtired, and distracted parents who forget

it's usually *not* booze or drugs. one example was a doctor who was on his way to drop his kid off at day care when he got an emergency call. he got engrossed in handling the emergency and forgot about his sleeping baby out of sight in the rear-facing car seat in the back.

all humans are wired to forget things.

*none* of us are immune.

[Fla Dem]

18. On another post earlier this week, I suggested that baby car seats be equipped with a pressure

Last edited Sat Jul 26, 2014, 12:31 PM - Edit history (2)

sensor. As long as anything over 5lbs is in the baby car seat, a chime would ring every 3 minutes. Not annoying, but loud enough and frequent enough to keep reminding the driver the child is in the seat!

As an interim step, parents or drivers should leave their purses, wallets, briefcase or cell phone with the baby on the back seat. Hopefully as they get out of the car they'll realize they don't have said objects and they'll remember the baby. Even if they are so frazzled, forgetful, etc, once they get to where they're going, work, shopping, whatever, they'll reach of the object and it will remind them to get the child. It may be a few minutes, but at least not all day.

[etherealtruth]

21. All sound like good ideas

Clearly, we humans are very imperfect creatures .... we need all the help we can get1

[kdmorris]

32. Probably going to need to increase that weight limit

Our car seats are installed in the car rear facing because our sons are only 13 months old... and the car seats themselves each weight 30 lbs. If it goes off over 5 lbs, it will always go off and parents will learn to ignore the chime.

Our 2014 Suburban has a flashing light that tells me when it's determined that someone is sitting in the passenger seat that is heavy enough to allow the air bag to deploy. If I just put my purse there, it turns off the air bag.

[Fla Dem]

42. Not talking about the automobiles's car seat, talking about the baby seat you put in the car.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. This would be an easy addition car seat makers could add to their products.

[kdmorris]

47. OHHHHH

Duh... sorry, I get easily confused these days!

:wave:

[Politicalboi]

19. Most of the distractions seem to be due to cell phones

I know this has been happening BEFORE cell phones, but in all the stories, each person was distracted due to cell calls.

[WinkyDink]

20. Make the seats with alarms, like hospital bed pads. Or, you know, realize one's a parent.

[DocwillCuNow]

22. The Romney solution would be out of the question.... n/t

[MineralMan]

24. I don't think WE can solve the problem.

Only individuals can. Technology will never be universally adopted or used. Only habitual attention paid by individuals can prevent these tragedies. People need to check the back seat out of sheer habit if they can't remember putting a child in a safety seat.


An alarm equipped Lexus is not the solution for someone driving a 10-year-old Toyota. It is that simple.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. The same arguments could have been made regarding seatbelts in 1960.

[MineralMan]

40. Yes, and they were made.

It took a long time before the majority of cars on the road had seatbelts, too. Even now, not every state enforces seatbelt laws and there are many people who refuse to use them.

My point is still the same. There's not a tech solution for this that will protect children right now. Instead, education to teach people to always check their car after driving it for unsuspected or forgotten passengers is a better solution that can work now, not later.

[abelenkpe]

26. Imagine many parents would want

Such a system if it was available. There is a website called I think kidsandcars.org dedicated to preventing and reporting child hazards in and around cars. Many stories of forgotten children and other tragedies like kids getting harmed in back up accidents, automatic windows and doors, trunks and while playing in a car unsupervised. They have many sad stories but also tips on avoiding such tragedies.
I was always afraid of forgetting my kids when they were little. Between little or no sleep, working overtime and the monotony of our routine and commute. Anything to prevent such a thing would be welcome.

[csziggy]

27. There is a company that makes bracelet alarms

That warn when a child gets beyond a certain distance from the parent. That's not a bad idea for kids in cars or in public places.

They had sponsored one of the videos about kids in cars that was posted here a couple of weeks back. I watched their video about their bracelets. They are trying to raise money to produce and promote the item.

Ah - here is the video:

I know nothing more about the company, just thought it was one way that might help with this problem. It would also work for pets in cars, too!

[valerief]

28. Some people just shouldn't have babies. But that takes birth control, and we

know how that's being treated in our country now.

[Boom Sound 416]

29. Are we so hopelessly reliant and self absorbed

That we humans, capable of so many great achievements cannot remember to bring our children who we, you know, brought with us (because our car is not a destination) without a chime or a text or a slap in a face from an electric hand.

I hope not.

Not trying to #%^* on your post, I agree with your sentiment. I just hope this is a bad, terrible, awful streak and it will end.

On the other hand maybe we are just going a little nuts with the whole smart phone thing (as one example) and need to exercise a little self discipline. Just as least as much that made parents not to forget their child at home when they left.

[PasadenaTrudy]

30. Don't have kids? N/t

[Barack_America]

31. Whatever you carry with you, get in the habit of keeping it in the back seat.

Whether you have the kids with you or not.

[Codeine]

33. Stop being idiots.

Pretty fucking simple if you ask me. My stepson passes dead out in his carseat every time I drive more than ten minutes or so. He sleeps hard and is not awakened by the car stopping, doors opening, etc. yet somehow I've never manage to forget him because THAT'S MY JOB!

[flvegan]

34. How about an app that sends a text when the body temperature of your kid rises

above a certain degree. It could be in a pacifier, or a bracelet or the car seat itself. Considering that far too many people these days pay more attention to their phone/device, it's one way to help them be responsible for who is really important.

BTW, if you think this is a great idea based on knowing if your kid is sick, good for you.

If you think this is a great idea because you forget your kid but remember to check your texts, fuck you. Don't have children, you're too stupid.

[IcyPeas]

36. has this always happened?

are we just hearing about it more now?

[LeftyMom]

37. It increased when car seats were moved to the rear seat.

That still saves MANY more lives in collisions though, so putting babies in front seats isn't the answer.

[Mariana]

41. How many lives are saved by putting them in the backseat?

Where can I find those numbers?

[LeftyMom]

45. Start here:

Lives Saved FAQs - Research - U.S. Department of Transportation

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=UL_TU-msF-XgiwKy4YHQDA&url=http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811105.PDF&cd=10&ved=0CDwQFjAJ&usg=AFQjCNEuyqhA_-o1Zwy6Jv1SE_1zQZnYMg&sig2=V08ALEkX6Bb4kAyWz2OeTA

[Mariana]

46. That doesn't have any information at all

about the number of lives saved by putting babies in the back seat vs. the front seat.

I did look for it before I asked you, and I couldn't find it either - just comparisons between car seats vs. no car seats, with no mention of their placement in the car.

[LeftyMom]

38. Emphasize routines.

When one has a baby building new routines is part of the deal. Before you walk out the door you check the diaper bag, you empty and restock it when you get home. You totally redo your grocery list, your laundry routine, your routine before bed and when you wake up. You get used to small errands taking longer than you were used to.

You fuck up the diaper bag once or twice, and figure out that you really need to check before you leave. You only have to wrap a wet baby in Dad's undershirt once.

You start out taking forever to put baby in seat, seat in car, bag in car, stroller in car, you get faster.

The same way you remember to bring your purse/wallet, phone and keys everywhere. You pat yourself down every time you walk out a door until it's second nature.

You actively and conscously build new habits. Yes, while slerp deprived and hormonal. No, it's not easy.

[jmowreader]

48. Automatic murder investigations and mandatory charges

Make sure it's well publicized that this will happen. Use any means available - tweets, texts, billboards, newspaper, radio and tv ads, pop-up ads...

Further, the act of leaving your child in the car to die must ALWAYS be punished. We have a lot of levels of "causing someone's death" laws, from Negligent Homicide to Capital Murder. Somewhere in that range we can find the right punishment for any death-by-hot-car case.

I can hear it now: "But that's awfully harsh for an accident!" No, it really isn't. For one thing, I don't believe they're all accidents. In the glory days of the Internet (before it became a huge marketing scheme), Usenet mattered and one of its groups was alt.support.childfree. A lot of people on that newsgroup believed ALL child-in-hot-car (CIHC) deaths were intentional. I won't go that far, but I believe intentional CIHC deaths are more common than you think.

Using technology to solve this is a nice thought, but consider: What if the family can't afford a new car? Or the driver disables it somehow? Imagine the government mandating that a child-in-car-seat detection system be installed in all 2017 cars. And let's say this device has a weight sensor in the driver's seat, a weight sensor under the child seat (which you can tare-out to compensate for the seat itself) and a sensor to determine if the LATCH belts are hooked up. If the belts are hooked up, there's weight on the child-seat sensor and none on the driver's seat sensor, it waits three minutes then sends a text to the driver's cell phone. Now, assume you wanted to commit a CIHC murder and you didn't want to be reminded of it. There are three ways to disable the system: unhook the LATCH belts until the baby dies (then hook 'em back up before you go to the cops, to erase the evidence), tare-out the baby-seat sensor with the baby in place then re-tare before you go to the police and hope like hell the cops don't hook up their OBD 2 reader and look at the last time you set the tare weight, or tell the car to text 867-5309 and pray Jenny doesn't call the cops on you. And naturally, none of this matters if you have a 2016 car. Or for that matter, a 1986 one.

The only thing that's going to solve this is the fear of pain. Seat belt usage wasn't popular until the cops became empowered to write traffic tickets with huge fines for doing it, and it REALLY became popular when the cops were empowered to pull you over only for not being buckled up. (I have seen a LOT of cars made before shoulder belts were invented with "Car Only Has Lap Belts" signs on the back...those folks get pulled over ALL the time.) Condoms weren't popular until AIDS reared its ugly head...they didn't care about the pregnancies they caused, didn't care much about the occasional case of the clap but sex can now KILL me? A dozen Trojans please, and make it quick! The fear of pain has solved more problems than anything else in the world, and it will solve this one too.