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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZimmermann and the "lie detector"
Found via Skepchick an article from AntiPolygraph.org News
A lawyer for George Zimmerman ... has told WOFL television news that his client passed a voice stress test administered by the Sanford, Florida Police Department.
Snip/
However, voice stress testing ... has never been proven to work at better than chance levels of accuracy. A job posting by the Sanford P.D. indicates that ... it uses is the Computer Voice Stress Analyzer (CVSA), which is marketed by the so-called National Institute for Truth Verification ... NITV has acknowledged in federal court that the CVSA is not capable of lie detection
The final point in the post is supported by a case in San Diego, reported by the Indianapolis Star archived at Truth in Justice; the reporter was John Tuohy.
Please note that it doesn't mean that GZ had to have had any special expertise to "pass" this test, just that the Sandford Police wasted money on the stupid device and the training of its officers in the use of this pseudo-scientific woo-woo.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)hunting down a 17-year-old black youth.
In his mind, killing this kid is OK - he was black and therefore a thug killer/robber/burglar wanna-be.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)what is the standard in Florida law now with the Stand Your Ground law?
Is it enough if a killer subjectively thinks that his killing another was justified because he thinks that he reasonably needed to defend himself by killing someone?
Or does a jury need to decide whether his belief that he needed to kill another in order to defend himself was reasonable and therefore that the killing was justified?
Who defines "reasonable" or "reasonably believes" when a killer claims self-defense? That will be the big question.
Apparently the police initially decided that the killing was justified and that Zimmerman's belief that Trayvon was enough of a threat to reasonably justify Zimmerman's killing him. But how was that decided?
I personally think that a jury needs to decide whether Zimmerman's shooting was reasonably justified. But, let's face it. I don't know all the evidence that the police considered when they arrived at their judgment. None of us do.
Ford_Prefect
(7,919 posts)Does the use of "Reasonable" hinge on Zimmerman's grasp of reality rather than any establishment of the facts of the event?
I doubt that a coroner would rule this is a case of "Death by Opinion".
krispos42
(49,445 posts)...if he started the confrontation, IMO.
The law specifically does not give you any kind of protection if you start the fight. The exceptions are a) if you manage to break off the fight and back away wholeheartedly and unambiguously, or b) the victim responds with grossly disproportional force.
An example of "a" would be if I shoved you after you made a rude comment, we tussled then I broke off and ran out of the building. If you chased me to finish beating me to a pulp, then our roles reverse.
An example of "b" would be if you made a rude comment, I shoved you, and you drew a gun and shot me.
I don't see either of those happening here.
Since Martin was unarmed, not a martial artist, and 10 years and 100 pounds lighter than Zimmerman, I don't see how either "a" or "b" could be applied.
So, then we have Zimmerman the aggressor. Regardless of any belief Zimmerman had that Martin was a criminal (and this belief may be rational or irrational, "acting suspicious" or "walking while black" , I don't see how Zimmerman can legally use lethal force.
If at any point he "reasonably believed", either subjectively by his (possibly twisted mental state) or objectively (by the standards of a panel of normal people), that he was in imminent danger of death or severe bodily harm, it was AFTER he had started a conflict on a smaller, younger, more vulnerable person.
The more I write on this, the more I come to the conclusion that Zimmerman simply wasn't going to lose a fight to a "goon". In other words, racist ego.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)...should not prevent him from getting charged and the case going to a jury..
Now, some SYG laws have a preemption clause that says that if conditions a, b, and c are met, then the defender can't be charged in civil and/or criminal court. Some don't, and I don't recall what Florida has exactly but I think it's just civil-suit protection.
If Martin had managed to kill Zimmerman in the fight, then the preemption would prevent HIM from being charged with murder or from being sued by Zimmerman's estate.
Devil_Fish
(1,664 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Archae
(46,345 posts)They're nervousness detectors, and are worthless (more than worthless) for being "lie detectors."
Robert Hanssen at the FBI passed three polygraph tests, all the while he was selling secrets to the Soviets.
Travis Walton passed a ploygraph test about the time he was "abducted by an alien" as part of a scam.
Gurgen4
(39 posts)
hunting down a 17-year-old black youth.
In his mind, killing this kid is OK - he was black and therefore a thug killer/robber/burglar wanna-be.
This is a good point. It's not the fact that Zimmerman shot someone that is so disturbing. After all people make mistakes and things can go wrong.
The problem is what was going through Zimmerman's mind as he shot someone. He deliberately stocked out a black youth, who knows, maybe because he was a racist who got a kick out of killing innocent black people. In Zimmerman's mind, all people are guilty if they're black and that's why the lie detector test came back as "passing".
starfox172
(33 posts)and its psycho gov. he even robocalls constituents to convince them to like him... HA
krispos42
(49,445 posts)intaglio
(8,170 posts)How dare you make fun of such an advance in woo-Tech?
and anyway it was for explosives
perhaps
with added kwantuum
and vibrations
and a stupid price tag ...
Sorry ...