It's time to start proceeding directly to Single Payer...

[MrScorpio]

Do not pass go, don't collect private insurance lobby campaign funds.

[onecaliberal]

1. I completely agree

But so many Dems still think a blue dog in a red state who won't back single payer is better than a Repuke.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. Well ...

a blue dog in a red state who won't back single payer IS better than a Repuke.

But that said, the ACA changed the healthcare financing calculus, forever. With the expansion of Medicaid, in a number of districts, the relative popularity of the ACA among those benefited by the Medicaid expansion, and the healthcare losses in those states that didn't expand Medicaid, it is a lot easier for Democrats to envision single-payer, but more likely, the next step in the evolution ... a public option.

[onecaliberal]

25. IMO the Clowne Court will kill ACA

This time around. It will be generations before the subject is not toxic again.

Republicans are the effing death panels but dumb fucks in this country continue to elect those who would destroy 99%

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. That is not the majority opinion ...

among legal commentators; but with this Court, who knows?

[onecaliberal]

72. I would be thrilled to be wrong.

I just don't have any faith in this reich wing activist court. The ridiculousness of it would be laughable if not for it being so destructive to America.

[valerief]

86. Who pays legal commentators?

[1StrongBlackMan]

88. The ones I listen to ...

are either seated on a judicial bench or work for law schools. I rarely take what anything anyone on the TV machine says, as an unbiased legal opinion.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

90. are there any blue dogs left?

who?

[Louisiana1976]

2. I agree 100%--we need single payer.

[elleng]

3. DEAR Mr. Scorpio,

as much as I admire you, I must disagree. FIRST, GET A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE, THEN, Do not pass GO . . . .

[BrotherIvan]

7. Campaigning on Single Payer might be the way to achieve that

We always let pukes frame the argument. Why not get doctors in ads telling everyone why they want single payer, how it will be so much cheaper to give better service or get prescriptions. Talk to people about supplementals if they want Cadillac healthcare. Trot out the many reports that have been done that tells just how much single payer will save--billions. Refute every negative death panel story with the millions of people who have experienced single payer and love it. I'll throw in mine. Get small/medium business on board talking about how it will help them and they can put people on full time again. And if that is too scary and people want to cling to their shitty health insurance like their Bibles and Fox News, then open the rolls of Medicare. Figure out how to pass it and do it.

We will never get the damn fundy or TP vote. But why are we always running scared from them? If they're such idiots, why are they running the country as a minority?

[elleng]

9. Good points, BrotherIvan.

[BrotherIvan]

10. Thanks, I hope I live to see it happen in this country

There are so many reasons to lose hope. But we know that everyone has a relative on Medicare, and chances are very good that (except for the prescriptions) they love it. I hate my health insurance which denies everything first and makes you fight them. Or tries to cancel you in sneaky ways. I dealt with Medicare for my mother and her supplement and did not have one problem. Only the dumbest people would want to keep the system as it is. But I think the huge amount of doctors that want it would convince everyone.

[daleanime]

26. Amen....

[Doctor_J]

21. you mean "was the way"

the "guaranteed" PO was a big reason a lot of people showed up in 2008. His cave-in was a big reason they didn't in 2010. Now we know it wasn't a cave-in at all, but that for-profit mandates were the real goal all along.

[BrotherIvan]

27. Yes, it was a very big disappointment

I still don't know how without supermajorities of Democrats in every branch of government, we have perpetual Republican rule. Well, I do have a very strong suspicion... More and louder cheerleading is mandatory, but will never outcraft those brilliant Republicans! They're just too smart for us!

[Dustlawyer]

41. It's because many Democrats take the campaign donations too! They then represent their

Donors instead of us. That's why we can never get much past, Equal pay for Women, background checks for assault weapons...

Let's organize and protest in cities around the country to GET THE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS!!! I propose we demand Publicly Funded Federal, State, and Local Elections and do it in front of local TV and radio stations 9/13 - 11/4 and beyond. The more money a candidate raises the more we ask what they have to do for the money? Make raising more $ hurt!!!

We win if we can raise awareness and change the conversation! Start organizing your area, contact the different organizations that have suffered as a result of things like the Hobby Lobby decision, not passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act for a Equal Pay for Women...

[BrotherIvan]

47. I agree with you very much

That is the heart of the matter.

[Doctor_J]

105. time to stop calling them campaign contributions and call them what they are

Kickbacks

[Enthusiast]

67. You are exactly correct.

Just think of the long term results of that 2010 election.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. Yeah, okay! ...

the "guaranteed" PO was a big reason a lot of people showed up in 2008.

IOW ... No it wasn't. It may have been why YOU showed up in 2008; but "a lot of people" ... Nope.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. Yep ...

And if that is too scary and people want to cling to their shitty health insurance like their Bibles and Fox News, then open the rolls of Medicare.

That's a plan, as (literally) millions of folks have experience with Medicare, the vast majority of which had positive, if not, not negative experiences.

Figure out how to pass it and do it.

We know how to do that ... 60 in the Senate and 217 in the House!

Get Out The Democratic Vote in 2014!

[BrotherIvan]

48. I agree, Medicare is a winning brand

You don't have to convince most people that it is an excellent, efficient program. There are lots and lots of studies showing how much could be saved by expanding it. Now we have many reasons to add more people that the repubs have hacked away from the ACA: women who are denied contraception, red states without exchanges and subsidies, employers who won't give full time work, etc. Find some crafty way to open the rolls and ram the legislation through. It can be done without a super majority of Democrats, just enough who are willing to fight (or have the fear of god put into them). Get those files on everyone out of the drawer and blackmail them, I don't care how you do it. Just do it!

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Agreed ...

I would add that this effort (read: Pressure) needs to be led, not by President Obama (for obvious racial resistance reasons ... I can go into it if someone wishes). We need Harry (in the House) and a Medicaid expanded Red state Democrat House member (in a 2014 race) to lace up their boots and introduce the legislation.

It's a winning brand and a winning (and distinguishing) message.

ETA: It may be too late for this cycle, as the House will soon be in long recess; but it can be introduced upon return ... and though, it may violate tradition (i.e., introducing major legislation during the height of an election cycle), it's a ready made campaign issue that will suck the air out of most races.

[Enthusiast]

66. "why are they running the country as a minority?"

Clearly it's part of some elaborate scheme to preserve the health care status quo. Give them a huge microphone. The media always quotes the wise words of the Tea Party as if they are some sort of benevolent guiding force.

[Doctor_J]

96. Sadly, candidate Clinton has already said that she is against SP

So the congressional candidates can either

1. Get on board the "I'm for profiteers" bandwagon, or

2. Run against the person at the top of the 2016 ticket

Really bad choices

[BrotherIvan]

100. Well, hopefully it's all 11 dimensional chess

I mean, if the plan is to govern opposite of what you campaign. Aw shit...

[rurallib]

12. the first step to single payer is to get the vote out

[obxhead]

20. It can't be done.

No amount of GOTV or the MSM actually reporting facts will change the house.

None of it will change until they fix the BS gerrymandered districts.

The south and midwest is locked up with no end in sight. The house is gone until fair district lines are drawn.

SO,

I would say, until the MONEY is out of politics and more importantly the politics are out of the Financial industry, then we can move on.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. Not true ...

Last edited Wed Jul 23, 2014, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

None of the gerrymandered districts had anywhere near a 50% voter participation rate among eligible voter.

[mac56]

76. ^ THIS ^

[mrmpa]

87. I agree...........

I live in western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh to be exact), my district was gerrymandered into the next county over, which is rural. The Congressman that gets voted in every time, is, Tim Murphy. An SOB if you've ever met one.

The needs of my area of living is vastly different than those in the next county over, and he never listens to those living in the urban areas.

[Doctor_J]

22. The Dem HHS secretary has promised Big Insurance there will be no SP on her watch

And you seem to have blotted out the fact that we had huge majorities in both houses of Congress in 2009-2010. I cannot figure out why you believe that a Dem majority will lead to SP.

[AndyTiedye]

51. Vote #60 was Joe LIEberman (d?, Insurance companies)

No way was the Senator from Aetna going to vote to put the health insurance industry out of business. No way that could ever happen.

[Doctor_J]

54. you're going to blame this entire debacle on Lieberman? Really?

And that there were "only" 59 democratic senators? Do you realize how pathetic this sounds? The dc dems own this now.

[bigwillq]

4. K and R (nt)

[bigdarryl]

5. How the heck are you going to get a single payer healthcare bill

With a republican congress.Not going to happen its wishful thinking on our part.

[SunSeeker]

34. No kidding. They won't even agree to pay to maintain Eisenhower's highways. nt

[blkmusclmachine]

6. Good luck with that, in these United Corporate States of America!

[slipslidingaway]

8. knr, at the very least it should be included in discussions n/t

[Doctor_J]

95. It is. Hillary Clinton, presumptive Dem (lol) nominee says she's dead set against it

I guess that makes it part of the discussion.

[slipslidingaway]

106. Sounds more like the policy by Dems of killing any discussion ...

but I guess it can be counted in an odd way.

[Half-Century Man]

11. At least put a feeler out to the public for

Universal comprehensive Health care including prescription, dental, mental, and vision.
With full powers for negotiation of prices.
Paid for in part by a income tax with no salary cap, All above poverty level pay according to their income.
Paid for in part by a organizational health tax with no loop holes. All incorporated entities pay their fair share.


Any other parts?

[Doctor_J]

97. No need. Support for UHC usually polls north of 60%.

but the politicians would rather have the support of 100% of insurance executives (and other 1% ers) than 60% of the voters.

[Scuba]

13. Medicare for All, including dental, optical, hearing aids and mental health services.

[Half-Century Man]

17. Sorry Scuba

I gotta call for completely publicly financed health care.
Socialized Medicine.
We just have to find a way to better present socialized medicine.

[Swede Atlanta]

19. I do not support socialized medicine.........

I have seen its ups and downs in various countries around the world. The evidence suggests the overall quality and delivery of care suffers when the government owns the hospitals and clinics and employs all the doctors and nurses.

But single payer countries fare much better where there is a single insurer that can negotiate for services and products such as pharmaceuticals but leaves it to the private sector to deliver quality.

[Half-Century Man]

24. I mean that the Government covers the costs of health care.

Hospitals and clinics are run privately.
That which is now handled by insurance, becomes a public burden. The monies currently going to insurance companies now go to a health care dept.

[Scuba]

30. Sounds like Medicare for All to me!

[Half-Century Man]

50. 100% coverage.

not 80/20

[stillwaiting]

79. Stamp. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. However, the UK came top in the Commonwealth Fund rankings

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

[Scarsdale]

60. NHS

My relatives in the UK LOVE their National Health Service. It works in their neck of the woods. No waiting, no delays, efficient care. Anyone who wants to go private can, there are specialists for them, the same ones who attend NHS patients for consultations!!Watch Michael Moore's film about healthcare in other countries, it is worth watching My realatives are appalled at the stories they read about the healthcare in the US, and how much it costs. They wonder WHY people have tolerated such a system all these years.

[RagAss]

14. That's 75 years away.

[scarletwoman]

16. Then we had best get started as soon as possible!

[Enthusiast]

68. +1

Like yesterday.

[lovemydog]

42. If the majority got behind it and vote, it could happen in five.

I'm in favor of it and I vote.

[obxhead]

15. However, we now have a massive wall in front of us called the ACA.

The insurance companies will not go quietly, especially when you consider they got 20 million new victims, most of which are subsidized by the government.

Single payer was a dream 6 years ago, now it's an all out battle where we have snap pops and they have stealth bombers.

ACA is better, but a turd in the hand is better than a turd on your nose too. Either way you're still dealing with shit.

[Scuba]

32. Perfection is the enemy of progress. Bad as it is, ACA is better than what we had before it.

[Doctor_J]

23. Wow. Even the ACA fan club is waking up.

But as another poster already mentioned, Heritage Care has made SP nearly impossible. It was contrived and configured for that very reason.

[MisterP]

36. funny how quickly they all jumped on the "ACA is the gateway to Single Payer" bandwagon

like the new "TRUE Warrenistas say ..." thing

[MrScorpio]

37. My position was that the ACA was always supposed to be a stepping stone to eventual SP

The process required that our feet got put in the door and that SP would happen incrementally. There's not one single social safety net program around today that's exactly the same as it was when it was first implemented.

I never believed that the ACA was the end all and be all of health care coverage in America, but I did believe that its passage heralded the first victorious skirmish in a long war towards a health care coverage system to rival those others in each and every other western democratic country.

It's time to start taking it to the next level.

[Doctor_J]

53. how can a system that is the exact opposite of SP be a stepping stone to SP?

1. SP - no one pays extortion money or otherwise interacts with for profit insurance companies

2. Obamacare - EVERYONE pays extortion money to and interacts with for profit insurance companies

See?

[MrScorpio]

57. In two ways...

One, the biggest hurdle was aways getting some sort of universal program on the books. Many have tried before, and they've always failed. This somewhat flawed ACA is the biggest achievement since the passage of Medicare and Medicaid fifty years ago and we shouldn't ignore that.

And, programs always are changed, through a process of both legislative initiatives AND legal rulings. We've already seen that process undergoing in the courts. The other part demands a demand.

The next stage is clearly political… We need to put Democrats BACK into both Houses of Congress and keep sending MORE Democrats to the White House, in order to refine the ACA into something that would be a single payer program. Yes, it's what it is right now and the insurance companies are the clear beneficiary here. But, with Democrats working toward changing the system into single payer, at the behest and backing of strongly organized Democratic support, it could most definitely happen.

This next stage requires that all Democrats get out the vote to effectively elect the right people AND fervently demand that it actually happens.

Twiddling our thumbs and not doing this will definitely ensure negative outcomes from here on out. Both the will and activism demands an imperative.

[Doctor_J]

91. Alright, I guess I'll take back what I said about the BOG seeing the light

This somewhat flawed ACA is the biggest achievement since the passage of Medicare and Medicaid fifty years ago and we shouldn't ignore that.

The ACA is not "slightly flawed". It is an abomination that made the insurance companies part of the government. It will be next to impossible to extricate it, what with Big Insurance now having hundreds of billions to lobby with. Second, comparing Heritage Care to Medicare and Medicaid is not only misguided, it borders on blasphemy. You should be ashamed to have posted that.

The next stage is clearly political… We need to put Democrats BACK into both Houses of Congress and keep sending MORE Democrats to the White House, in order to refine the ACA into something that would be a single payer program. Yes, it's what it is right now and the insurance companies are the clear beneficiary here. But, with Democrats working toward changing the system into single payer, at the behest and backing of strongly organized Democratic support, it could most definitely happen.

This next stage requires that all Democrats get out the vote to effectively elect the right people AND fervently demand that it actually happens.

Already done. The result was locking the insurance companies into the system - the exact opposite of what was promised during the 2008 campaign. The current Sec of HHS, appointed by that most liberal president of ever, Barack Obama (one of the WH democrats you are sure will implement SP), has guaranteed Big Insurance that there will be no Single Payer while she has anything to say about it. The presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton, is on the record as opposing single payer.

Let's review

1. Dem WH and giant Dem majorities in 2009-2010 gave us mandatory for-profit insurance. Appointed HHS secretary who is sworn not to implement SP

2. Probable next Dem president is sworn to not implement SP

How in the world do you get from 1. and 2. to

We need to put Democrats BACK into both Houses of Congress and keep sending MORE Democrats to the White House, in order to refine the ACA into something that would be a single payer program.

????????

[MrScorpio]

102. That's why politics is hard, as is activism...

If this is what the majority of Democrats want, then this what we have to demand of the people that we elect to public office.

Our problems are abundantly clear:

Too many have made the perfect the enemy of the good, so in the absence of real unity, the lowest common denominator was allowed to come to the forefront, in the form of the ACA.

Democrats were obviously not sufficiently unified in the aftermath of the elections. Apparently that's still a problem, so I don't know when that's going to get fixed.

Rather than maintaining a high level of involvement and activism, too many Democrats simply disengaged and expected the President to carry the bulk of the water. This is the kind of thing that you never see on the right, those people are ALWAYS engaged, making constant demands of their leaders, win or lose. We need that duplication of effort, in order to remind those whom we've elected that we're always looking over their shoulders.

We need to go back to the fifty state strategy… It's always a numbers game, and we need to get more of us than there are them. Yes, that would mean that we'd risk getting elected some pretty less than liberal Democrats. But if we can't achieve and hold the leaderships of each House and the Oval Office, the political purity of our politicians wouldn't matter one bit, as they would be stuck in the minority. Get the leaderships and then worry about whipping the yellow dogs in line later. No point in having flawed priorities about this.

Do these things and it'll be a good start.

By the way, the BOG is not my hangout group. Is that where you think I hang? I mean that I don't have anything against the BOG, but I don't get your BOG ref.

[SummerSnow]

28. You're so correct

[cantbeserious]

31. Agree Completely

eom

[ReRe]

38. K&R

Single payer with total healthcare, including dental. Instead of Medicare, just call it "TotalCare."

[Bonobo]

39. Too late politically IMO.

We had a bullet to fire. We fired it already. And we got Obamacare. It is over for the foreseeable future.

Because what we REALLY did was reset the bar for what we expect. Obamacare, essentially a retooled Republican plan for that supports the current insurance company-run medical insurance system has been REBRANDED as socialism.

True "socialism" in health care will, as a result, be a long, long time coming.

[defacto7]

45. "REBRANDED as socialism"

You make a hell of a point that I would like to disagree with but can't.

What needs to be rebranded is the word socialism, at least in the minds of the less liberal minded.

[Bonobo]

49. It's the same mistake Clinton made (IF it was a mistake)

You try to be "reasonable" and your centrist efforts get rebranded as "Extreme Left" anyway.

NOW you are faced with the deeper problem that you have shifted the political goalposts to the right since center is now considered the LEFT. Meanwhile the Right goes ever to the right.

It is negotiation 101 and that is what makes me suspect it is not actually a mistake.

[defacto7]

56. Negotiation is a nice word isn't it?

It gives the impression there is balance and reasoning in the works. But if you are politically minded all one needs to do is slowly adjust definitions to exclude any anchor which in turn eliminates "out of bounds". No out of bounds, no limit to how far you can pull the system with you and all the while the people say, Ooooh we are so well managed.

Politicians are the tool, money is the grease, stupid is the key and people can be rather gullible.

[Chathamization]

40. Yep. State by state. N/T

[lovemydog]

43. I would hop on a bus to Washington, DC for a demonstration for single payer.

Partly 'cause it would be fun.

[Overseas]

44. K&R. Yes please!

[defacto7]

46. I'll dream that dream. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

52. There IS the option for States to Do a Public Option IN the ACA

Vermont is doing it.

[TT_Progress]

55. If only

We would save money and cover everyone. That just seems to make too much sense.....

[Romulox]

59. Um, the ACA locks the private, for-profit insurance industry into all our lives. By law. Forever.

Thanks, blind supporters!

[Enthusiast]

62. Widespread greed has made single payer an imperative.

They® had their golden egg laying goose but it was never enough.

[B Calm]

63. Lets win back congress and make this a reality!

[NorthCarolina]

64. Our heir apparent to the 2016 Presidential Race would disagree with you...

Hillary Clinton has confirmed, to a paying audience of 20,000 sellers of electronic health records systems, that she supports Obamacare, and opposes single-payer health insurance.

Speaking to a closed-to-the-press meeting of the "HIMSS14" (Healthcare Information and Management Systems Conference 2014) in Orlando Florida on February 26th, she condemned the Canadian and other nations' single-payer healthcare systems by saying, "We don't have one size fits all; our country is quite diverse. What works in New York City won't work in Albuquerque." The presumption is that what works in Canada cannot work here, that local control must trump everything in order to fix what's wrong with American health care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

As much as I think single payer is the correct and moral thing TO DO, the third-way still calls the shots in the Democratic Party, and it is quite obvious that they and their GOP counterparts have no intention of going there.

[Enthusiast]

69. PLUS ONE!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

81. Thank You for posting that and for mentioning Third Way.

[stevenleser]

65. As soon as you figure out how to make Republicans in the House pass the bill, I'll be there

...until then, I'll be doing other things.

My windmill tilting quota is done for this decade.

[salib]

70. It's already happening

Come to Vermont. http://vermontforsinglepayer.org

[stupidicus]

71. well, apparently getting it on the radar is our job

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025177005

Single payer is kinda like that Harry Potter character who must not be named to most of our "leaders". As you can see here in the responses, most of the responses to the dreaded "Why not?" question revolve around political realities and hurdles, not the efficacy and desirability of it that examples around the world have provided.

ANd given that the next dem pres, should she decide to accept it, is opposed to SP, well, "we" collectively have no one else to blame for more waiting but ourselves, no?

[freebrew]

73. I totally agree...

I'm one of the unfortunate slobs that can't afford the ACA.

My SO's employer has raised our insurance 3 times in the last 2 years.
So, if I drop the insurance, I get penalized for not having insurance I can't afford.
Or, I could get a divorce after 33 years, but then she would be stuck with higher income taxes.

Damn, I love this POS country.

[raouldukelives]

74. Haven't you heard? The battle for health care is over. We won.

Now we have to work on getting rid of those pesky trade, I mean, we have to help America by strengthening and expanding the global corporate marketplace.

[cilla4progress]

75. Can we get there from here,

with these recent court decisions?

[lupinella]

77. K&R n/t

[pampango]

78. Why is Single Payer preferable to a UK-style National Health Service?

If we are going to 'proceed directly" to our ultimate goal, should it not be an NHS?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

80. Way Past Time but, I nitpick. K&R

[demigoddess]

82. american citizens are moving to foreign

countries because of the lack of single payer in the US. I have heard some people tell me personally and a certain medical professional has lost patients who move overseas as soon as they retire, presumably for the health care.

[Maedhros]

101. If I could make it happen, and afford it for myself and my daughter, I would be out of here

as quickly as possible.

[hughee99]

84. If the ACA act works well, we won't get there for a long time.

if it works poorly, I don't think people are going to be up for turning more control over to the people who brought them that system. Either way, it's not happening anytime soon.

[valerief]

85. It's ALWAYS been time for that. nt

[marble falls]

89. A-freaking-men! I love my VA single payer coverage.

[The Wizard]

92. Campaign funds

is a euphemism for bribes.

[zipplewrath]

93. It's coming

And the GOP will bring it to us.

The multinationals will soon want to stop carrying this cost on their own, especially when their competitors don't. They'll get to the Chambers of Commerce and the other Wall Street backed lobbies and get the GOP and the conservative/Third Way dems to pass a single payer. And it will suck, and it will have high out of pocket expenses. And it will result in a multi-tiered system with union workers and the lower middle classes receiving 3rd rate care and the 1% will get the "platinum plan". They'll even have their own hospitals, or at least the "poor entrance" around back.

Oh, and the conservative dems will declare a "progressive victory" because they finally got "single payer" passed.

[Puzzledtraveller]

94. k&r

[IronLionZion]

98. Whip the votes in congress for HR 676

and send it to the president's desk to sign into law. Should be easy enough for you to have done this afternoon, right?

Good luck!

[devils chaplain]

99. If only it were that easy. n/t

[TheNutcracker]

103. Just got kicked out of new group signed into, not enough doctors. they moved us....

and the third set of cards coming.

SINGLE PAYER NOW!

[rustydog]

104. 100% correct my friend