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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUSA! Keeping kids in kennels
?1405990953Two refugee girls sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, as hundreds of mostly Central American immigrant children are processed and held at the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
Fucking animals -- the border enforcement people, literally putting kids in kennels, conservatives foaming at the mouth at the presence of desperate children, and the Obama Administration, trying to make it easier to deport these kids.
Just think how desperate you have to be to send your children off on this dangerous journey north -- it's a Sophie's Choice between near-guaranteed death at home at the hand of criminal gangs or drug cartels, or some chance of survival in the United States (or Costa Rica or Panama, which are also facing a refugee influx). These kids aren't looking for better economic opportunities or a better life, they are looking for life itself.
And then, after their harrowing journey north, they get placed in kennels.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/38SPBUV1P3Y16/ref=cm_wl_rlist_go_o?page=1&filter=all&layout=standard&sort=date-added&reveal=unpurchased&id=38SPBUV1P3Y16&type=wishlist&itemPerPage=24
MORE:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/22/1315753/-Keeping-kids-in-kennels
peace13
(11,076 posts)we would go to jail. This situation is out of control.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Put them on top of a train and send them 2000 miles away unsupervised? Yea, you would go to jail for that ... hell, you can't leave you child alone in a park to play without going to jail.
Damn straight it is out of control, what is your solution ... besides throwing money at it. I live in Texas and there are hundreds of thousands of people, some children, standing in parking lots all over the place trying to get whatever work they can. What's a few thousand more, right?
Come down here to Houston and try to get a job as a carpenter ... $8/hour with a line of undocumented people willing to take that work, with no benefits or protections from workplace abuse. Where do you think these kids should be taken, the system is full ...
peace13
(11,076 posts)They are not criminals. A camp would at least make us appear to be human. I feel your pain. I live in Ohio and it's hard to find a job with a living wage. It appears to be a national problem. Texas like Ohio is lead by people who do not think about anything but the money they can steal from the state and it's people. That is where the anger should be directed.
Because an article calls something a kennel does not make it a kennel. According to the article it is a holding cell at the US Customs and Border protection facility. Once the building is full, which it is, what do you do?
What defines a "camp" as compared to this facility? I think that separating these people by age/gender and keeping the truly vulnerable ones separate from those who may attempt to harm them is the very least we should do. Because you are being separated from a group of people by chain link fence does not mean you are being treated poorly ... sometimes it is for your own protection.
What do you think the reaction would be if the world found out that we left these children to fend for themselves and they were being raped?
Again, what would you do? Once the facilities that you have become full you have to do the best you can to make sure ... at the very least, that these kids are not being assaulted. Behind that fence, secure from harm, fed with plenty of water to drink, lying on a clean blanket, may be the very best situation these kids have been in for weeks ... maybe months, or even their whole life.
kcr
(15,318 posts)The space is no bigger than a dog kennel. Fact.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)What is your suggestion?
I just put you in charge, you have a couple of thousand young vulnerable children among them are pre teen girls, how do you keep them safe?
The facilities you have are full. You have very little money. Even less staff.
What do you do?
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)They still have to be safe ... tonight.
Where do you put them, right now?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Are you planning to take a child into your home? Because that is what foster care is about. Many American children who are said to be in foster care are actually living with grandparents, aunts, etc.
I suggested housing the children on military bases. Everyone was aghast. But I know a little about how abandoned or abused or neglected children are dealt with. It isn't easy to find qualified homes for all of them. The work does not pay real well.
A lot of very well intentioned people respond to this situation with their hearts on their sleeves and their heads in the clouds.
It is going to take a lot of money and time and effort to help even a few of these children.
The best course is to press for improvement in the law enforcement in their countries of origin because many of these children, after being processed through our legal system, our immigration courts may be sent home. Actually, they should not have to come here for safety. Their home countries should be safe places for them to stay with their families.
The only institution in the US that is national and large enough to really deal with so many immigrant parent-less children is the military, maybe national guard. I am assuming when I say that that we will see an even larger influx of children in coming months. If that assumption is false, we may be able to deal with the children through civilian, religious and charitable organizations.
But I don't have much hope for that. Think about how many Americans are homeless at this time. Think how many American children and families rely on food stamps and charity for something to eat. It's nice to feel sorry for people, but caring for people takes real work, organization and lots of money.
kcr
(15,318 posts)Huh? You don't have a cure for cancer at the ready? Then stop complaining about it. Shut up about cancer!
Think the above is stupid? Of course. Just like claiming because you and I may not know exactly how ti handle this means we can't criticize this. There are and have been plenty of similar societal problems that weren't dealt with this way. Budgets are low and facilities full all the time. And yet this didn't happen.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)This is shameful. After any weather emergency we figure out how to house thousands rapidly. We bring in cots, we bring in food and water, we bring in adults with training to help people meet their basic needs.
These children are being kept like strays because we're treating them as such. We have the resources to do better by these kids. We just don't have the political will to do so (thank you, obstructionist GOPers.)
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Really??
After any weather emergency we have 50,000 children with no family members who need care?
When did this ever happen?
We have displaced FAMILIES, alot different to put up a FAMILY in temporary housing then unattended CHILDREN.
When Katrina came through our facility in New Orleans got wiped out, I put up a co workers FAMILY in my place in Conroe for six months until they got back on their feet. I would not have let CHILDREN stay there with no supervision.
FFS, if you can't see the difference there.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)We have the resources. What we don't have is the political motivation to treat them better.
Some state officials have stepped forward and offered to help.
http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/07/elizabeth_warren_immigration_ed_markey.html
There's no excuse to have these children sleeping on the floor in overcrowded holding facilities.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)And where are "foster parents" to be found---at the local Costco?
TBF
(32,086 posts)The Former First Lady
Barbara Bush Calls Evacuees Better Off
"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas," Barbara Bush said in an interview on Monday with the radio program "Marketplace." "Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality."
"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway," she said, "so this is working very well for them."
Mrs. Bush toured the Astrodome complex with her husband, former President George Bush, as part of an administration campaign throughout the Gulf Coast region to counter criticism of the response to the storm. Former President Bush and former President Bill Clinton are helping raise money for the rebuilding effort.
White House officials did not respond on Tuesday to calls for comment on Mrs. Bush's remarks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07barbara.html?_r=0
What's that have to do with me saying these kids are being kept safe?
Is it ideal? No.
Are they they being kept from harm? Yes.
Fuck all of the Bush family, still is not a valid comparison as the FAMILIES being housed are not the same as CHILDREN who require special consideration.
TBF
(32,086 posts)may be the very best situation these kids have been in for weeks ... maybe months, or even their whole life.
And it made me think of Barbara's statement re the Katrina refugees. I wonder why.
These kids are comming from third world situations, the people BB was speaking about came from a city in the US.
You don't see a difference?
One group was fleeing a storm, the other is fleeing true poverty and third world conditions.
Yea, same thing.
Not.
TBF
(32,086 posts)"oh these people have never had it so good".
It makes me ill actually.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)There is no dog kennel being used, look at the picture. See the yellow stripe, this is something that was thrown up in a parking lot.
You're being dishonest.
50,000 children put in hotel rooms? Who makes sure no one abuses them? The hotel owner? Who feeds them?
Where are all these $35 rooms? You talking the hourly ones where the hookers hang out, the ones that rent by the hour? Yea, they'll be safe there ... no pimps or nothing bad around those places.
Get real, you ever been anywhere near the border?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)a tent with chain link fencing and dog kennel sized stalls where children sleep on the ground.
way to make your case!
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Where do you put them?
Tell me.
Where?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Kick ass.
1000.
The numbers are 50,000 in 10 months. That is 166 per day.
Great, you just took care of 6 days worth. After the logistics of getting them there ... what do you do with the 166 that you received today?
Where they going? Not tomorrow, the sun goes down in 4 hours ... where you putting these kids so they do not get abused.
On busses? Trains?
No, you do what you have to do to keep them safe, right now. If that means they are in something that looks like a cage ... then that is what you do.
Unless you have some other idea?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)There are 49 other states. Do the math. This is initial support, mind you, not all potential support.
Fifty thousand kids didn't appear overnight. There were mistakes made early on in not recognizing the scope of the issue. We're long past that now. There is absolutely no legitimate excuse to warehouse these children this way. None.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)You think there is some other option, right now, and this is being done why? They want to do this?
No, pretty sure they are doing what they think is best ... Right this minute.
Keeping these kids safe is the number one concern.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)but we can't find a decent place for kids to sleep.
Buy a soul.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)We are doing what we have to keep these kids safe, your alternative is what???
Put them in the superdome?
Let them fend for themselves on the streets?
Give them a bottle of water and send them into the wilds?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You are then unable to remember how and where the U.S. has housed people during and after emergency evacuations?
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)In these kinds of numbers.
No.
When did that happen?
liberalhistorian
(20,819 posts)suffered horribly being put in what, essentially, ARE dog kennels despite your semantic gymnastics, doesn't bother you then there really isn't anything left to talk about with you. Sheesh. Sometimes I can't believe what I read on here anymore.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)All of the other options that were proposed in this thread ...
Mass has taken how many of these kids - 0
How many have been put in foster homes - 0
How many have been put in hotels - 0
250+ more have crossed the border in that time, the number is 57,000 now and predicted to hit 90,000 by the end of the year.
So, what we are doing now is keeping these kids out of harms way.
Your option, other than telling me I am barbaric, is what?
Tell me what you would do.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)The same people watch the kids who watch them now. A hotel room is a heck of a lot better conditions then a parking lot floor in dog kennels!
Here's google search of $35 hotel rooms. And yes I have been to mexico border areas scores of times and also lived in Mexico for a couple of years! No way anyway the border area will be lodging other than a day or two for those children. The USA side of the close border used to be very nice but the American border program has ruined the local economy close to the border. It's a horrible place to be now. (on the USA side mostly)
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=35+dollars+a+night+hotels
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)That is a horrible place to be and you want to spread these kids out over miles and hope for the best. The facilities are understaffed and they can't deal with numbers now, you think there are enough hotel rooms within a couple blocks? No, they would be spread out over multiple locations.
Who takes the blame when a ten year old refugee child is abducted, raped, and murdered?
As bad as the conditions are, they are safe.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)They haven't even given any border guards polygraphs to see which ones help smugglers for cash yet.
They move the kids out of those kennels into the other states. There are no good hotels within 150 miles of the border anymore. The USA border economy has been ruined for about the past 15 years.
Anyway almost all those children will go to their USA family members soon and they have to wait about 2 or 3 years for their immigration hearings as the courts are backed up.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Until that happens, and they get moved ... They need to be kept safe.
Right now, that is happening, these children are being kept safe. What else is there to be done ... You still can't answer that, what would you do different today?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)What do you do with them tonight? Sun goes down in three hours.
How do you know they all have families?
Why did they turn themselves into immigration if they had somewhere to go?
These kids are not being caught, they are seeking out border personnel to claim refugee status ... Why would they do that if they had somewhere to go?
Speculation on your part, still have to deal with these kids right this minute, and you have no answer to that except to say the fact that they are being kept safe is somehow mistreatment.
Assuming way below average over fifty children need some sort of shelter today, right now, arrived in the last few hours. Beds are full, what do you do with them?
Right now.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Not tomorrow.
What do you do with the kids now, they are crossing the border now.
Not when we have the capacity to deal with them, they are crossing now ... When we don't have the capacity.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Army does it all the time. If FEMA can't do it, send in the fucking Army, like they did after Hurricane Andrew.
Sounds like you've never been in the military.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)You know my history now?
You agree with dipshit sending the Guard to the border than?
tabasco
(22,974 posts)This is America. We're supposed to be better than this.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)to grab them!
Not a good idea even for adults.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)go to the Houston walmarts and there are the same 30 or so cars walmart allows to park in back . They are homeless families not undocumented persons. People looking for "basic-anything work" stand in the same places, corners and in side of some stores in the same numbers they have been for the past 15 years I've noticed them.
All my 'undocumented' friends have had jobs or small businesses for many years. They can't travel to the home-country to get their kids/family out because the USA will not let them back in.
Most of those children have family in the USA, they will end up with their family members. Our country lets refugees stay. There are thousands more children waiting to cross in the churches (cared for) just inside mexico. They're coming aswell to join their families, the 8 or 9 million undocumented Americans.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Go down to Gessner/Clay, turn up Gessner to drive to Hempstead highway ... try to count. That is one place. You know just as I do that The Home Depot/Lowes parking lots have at least 30 people in them every morning. To say the numbers of people looking for this type of work is the same as it was 15 years ago is dishonest, or uninformed.
It's the subcontractor dance, the general contractor can not hire people who are not eligible to work here so they sub the work out to someone who does not follow the rules.
The influx of this labor force has driven the wages of all of the trades down, it will continue to happen until we get a handle on this problem and make it so these people can not be treated differently than those who are documented to work here legally.
How does an "undocumented" person have a job, or run a business? They lie about their status. So you have a employee/business that is not paying any taxes because they do not have a SS# to pay them against? How is that fair to someone who is playing by the rules that now has to work for the lower wage but has to pay taxes?
Why would they not be let back in? If they couldn't get in, how the hell did they get here? And pretty much every source put the number well over 10M.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i don't know what it is that you do, perhaps they really are a threat to your employment.
but i doubt these children are any threat to you. perhaps you can ask God why these children are treated so well and you so unfairly.
let us know what He or She says in response.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)All I am seeing from you is BS.
No one is taking my job, I'm doing fine.
The question still remains, what do you do with these kids?
think
(11,641 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Peter J. Meier chairman of the Board of Selectmen in Bourne, which includes part of Camp Edwards said the board is set to discuss the plan Tuesday. He said 80 percent of the residents in Bourne he has spoken to oppose the idea.
Still accounts for less than one week of the numbers crossing border.
alstephenson
(2,415 posts)Thanks for posting.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)this is the best you can do?
this is similar to when you LOL'd at people affected by the government shutdown saying that nobody had been hurt by it.
i don't know why you seem to limit your compassion to matters concerning yourself.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)of them, who have good jobs, worked hard for many years, with their USA born kids in school, who are 'undocumented'.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)Undocumented people have no ss# so they pay no income tax. People who play by the rules and have work visas have to pay these taxes but are forced to work at lower wages ...
How is that fair to those who immigrated the correct way?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i can't figure out why you even want to be here on DU.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,038 posts)So where do you put these kids, not tomorrow, not later today ...
Right now.
Where do you put them so when the sun goes down this evening they will be safe??
It's nice to tell me where I should be, and what my thoughts on proper care of children are ...
But, right now we are keeping these kids safe. I am not hearing any horror stories of abuse coming out of the detention centers, no rapes or beatings.
Is it ugly, damn straight it is. What's your option?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Come down here to Houston and try to get a job as a carpenter..."
You're confusing the skilled profession of carpentry and the unskilled profession of roofing. Having done roofing, and having lived in Houston, you merely incorrect-- at best, at worst... well, fill in the blakn here.
Warpy
(111,329 posts)You don't want them, you'll never want them, and they can't count on humane treatment in Texas. We know that.
Some of them can be sent next door to NM, especially to Albuquerque and Santa Fe, both sanctuary cities. Others can be sent to other sane states. Massachusetts has offered to take at least some of them in. Other states will eventually step up if they can shut the Republicans up long enough to do so.
You just don't get it, do you? That 2000 mile top of a freight train ride was better than getting raped and/or butchered in the mean streets of El Salvador or Honduras or Guatemala. The situation there is so dire thanks to right wing death squads, drug gangs, and even the governments that daily survival has become difficult, especially for children. Families knew they'd left the violence to leave on top of a train and there was a better chance to survive that ride than try to live another day in one of those countries.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,819 posts)I think you really mean to be on that "other site".
malaise
(269,157 posts)to an American in Louisiana
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025274707
whistler162
(11,155 posts)enclosure. Not just the little bit that makes the story seem real.
2 - How long are the refugees kept in the facilities?
3 - Where would you keep the children safe until they can be moved to a different facility?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"How about a picture of the full enclosure..."
No doubt that the sincere inquiry of that line would be scouring for those very pictures as we type, and post them in all their royal splendor for all to see. Much as no doubt the insincere inquiry would simply ask the question without taking it upon themselves to the find relevant answers...
whistler162
(11,155 posts)the job of the OP of the "author" of the referenced DailyKOS post job for them.
I so enjoy these knee jerk posts that attempt to show how bad the U.S. is.
I noticed the the OP doesn't or can't answer the questions. Likely actual facts would destroy their harangue.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Nice sleeping spots available next to the portajohns!
Space blankets for a restful sleep!
USA! USA! USA!
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)and what are your ideas for a secure, for the children, temporary facility.
The author of the article that went with that picture, iirc, didn't even bother with those questions.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I fear the worst is in store for them, once we deport them back to their home countries.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)change the law in order to deport the kids quickly.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)needs to step up. This is an international crisis not just a U.S. crisis. The U.S., Canada, Britian, Spain, Italy all should offer to take in at least some of these kids so they don't have to go back to their dangerous homelands.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)UN pushes for migrants to be called refugees
By ALBERTO ARCE and MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN, Associated Press | July 8, 2014 | Updated: July 8, 2014 9:32pm
SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (AP) United Nations officials are pushing for many of the Central Americans fleeing to the U.S. to be treated as refugees displaced by armed conflict, a designation meant to increase pressure on the United States and Mexico to accept tens of thousands of people currently ineligible for asylum.
Officials with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees say they hope to see movement toward a regional agreement on that status Thursday when migration and interior department representatives from the U.S., Mexico, and Central America meet in Nicaragua. The group will discuss updating a 30-year-old declaration regarding the obligations that nations have to aid refugees.
While such a resolution would lack any legal weight, the agency said it believes "the U.S. and Mexico should recognize that this is a refugee situation, which implies that they shouldn't be automatically sent to their home countries but rather receive international protection."
Most of the people widely considered to be refugees by the international community are fleeing more traditional political or ethnic conflicts like those in Syria or the Sudan. Central Americans would be among the first modern migrants considered refugees because they are fleeing violence and extortion at the hands of criminal gangs.
Central America's Northern Triangle of Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras has become one of the most violent regions on earth in recent years, with swathes of all three countries under the control of drug traffickers and street gangs who rob, rape and extort ordinary citizens with impunity.
Honduras, a primary transit point for U.S.-bound cocaine, has the world's highest homicide rate for a nation that is not at war. Hondurans who are used to hiding indoors at night have been terrorized anew in recent months by a wave of attacks against churches, schools and buses.
..more..
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)is involved! I just hope they expand the pressure to more countries than just the U.S. and Mexico though. I would like to see some other nations volunteer to take in some of the refugees. We can't even get the Pukes to agree to take care of people born in the United States, let alone tens of thousands more. I think it needs to be a shared effort with the U.S., Mexico and other major industrialized countries doing what they can to help.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)We're number one.
wandy
(3,539 posts)these children are unaccompanied and are coming in the large numbers reported.
Something like finding every child in the neighborhood stranded on your doorstep.
For the moment you do the best you can until something better can be worked out.
Let us just hope that we have the courage and the resolve to do better.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)shove them in some $35 hotel room and tell them to show up for a hearing in the future. You have to keep them secure and HORROR of HORRORS that means fences and a secure facility.
wandy
(3,539 posts)give them a Teddy Bear and stuff them on the first boxcar heading south.
I keep going back to that every kid in the neighborhood analogy.
Some of 'em might end up sleeping in the bath tub or a dresser drawer. Do what you can until you can do what you want to do.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Response to kpete (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)Nothing against the puppy OP. I love puppies and kittens. But the stark difference in images is striking. Human children in dog pens, and dogs on baby blankets.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025277419
Throd
(7,208 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It isn't a question of where they come from. The problem is that our society assumes that a child is in a family.
I think the children should be housed on military bases.
A lot of DUers think that sounds cruel, but military bases have chow halls and barrack and doctors, etc. With construction of temporary buildings, they could also house schools. The other alternative is to place the children in private homes. But finding enough homes? We don't have enough decent foster care housing in our country for needy parentless, neglected or abandoned children born in this country.
To say military bases sounds cruel. But think of it. There may still be bases that were abandoned after the end of the Cold War and that are not in use, but I doubt it. Another alternative is to build housing in parks.
Cages seem to me to be the worst choice.
Juvenile Halls that are actually jails or prisons for underage children tend to be full but are a possibility. I'd prefer military bases to that.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)in "boxes" at the ready for humanitarian efforts - water, electricity, sleeping facilities, hospitals, etc.
why are these not being considered?
children in kennels?? america is indeed inhumane, and these pictures are disgusting.
thank you, kpete for the link for something to do to help.