Will the Putin fan club go the way of the Mugabe fan club here on DU?

[Throd]

I've been here 10 years. Long enough to remember that some people would defend Bobby Mugabe because he spewed a lot of anti-Western rhetoric. Slowly his supporters on DU withered on the vine as his autocratic and incompetent rule became more and more indefensible.

The term "fascist" is overused, misused, and shopworn, but the Putin regime fits that bill more than an irrelevant population of neo-Nazis in Kiev.

[NuclearDem]

1. Wait, there was a Mugabe fan club?

[shenmue]

2. Were they drunk?

[Kurska]

8. As hard as it may be to believe, yes there was. n/t

[mcar]

9. I must have ignored those threads

Who could even believe anyone would support Mugabe?

But, even though I don't ignore it now, I am still amazed and appalled at the number of DUers who support Putin no matter what. Many refuse to acknowledge anything positive President Obama has done.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. It broke down into roughly three groups

1. Academic Post-Colonialists with multi-paragraph diatribes, complete with footnotes explaining the unassailable virtues of Mugabe's "land reform" program who over time shifted to just blaming the British.

2. Che™ Enthusiasts hot for the latest third world despot spewing nonsense about Western imperialism.

3. Smug assholes who know nothing of white Africans beyond Lethal Weapon 2 taking satisfaction from seeing white farmers with precisely nowhere to go get run off the land by Mugabe's gangsters without much interest in the circumstances on the ground... such as Zimbabwe having millions of acres of fallow farmland.

And they sure didn't like it when I pointed out to them that Mugabe's inner-circle contains most of the same families as Ian Smith's did.

Meet Mugabe's bag men and some of the largest land owners in Zimbabwe: (do not adjust your monitor)



Nicholas van Hoogstraten - Largest land owner in Zimbabwe



Charles Davy - Second largest land owner in Zimbabwe.



Billy Rautenbach - Controls much of Zimbabwe's mineral wealth. Banned from the United States by the Bush administration.



John Bredenkamp - Robert Mugabe's professional weapons smuggler and military adviser. Also banned from the US and has had his UK based assets frozen.

[leftstreet]

3. Where is the DU Putin fan club? n/t

[JackRiddler]

27. Anyone who's not calling him Hitler.

[Dragonfli]

43. In the fevered imaginations of CT's that lack reading skills. /nt

[KoKo]

74. lol's...so true... I was a minute away from "Trash Thread"..but..

your post told me just to see the humor...and not pass it by without a comment...

's

[William769]

4. One can only hope.

[geek tragedy]

5. There were a few random cranks as I recall, but no real

constituency for him here.

This place's worst excesses have always been for pundits, see, e.g., Madsen, Wayne.

[randome]

6. Caesar is not amused by Putin.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[JustAnotherGen]

13. Oh Caesar!

. Loved the first one and the one we saw last weekend. And yep - he probably wouldn't be!

[bemildred]

7. Do you worry a lot about this sort of thing? nt

[William769]

12. Not really, thy are just a bunch of gnats flying around.

Not causing trouble just being irritating. It is funny though to read all their propaganda.

[bemildred]

25. I find the noise level annoying.

Sometimes you have to wade through rivers of this bullshit to find out what is going on.

[sabrina 1]

45. Could you link to some of these Putin fans' amusing posts, I haven't not seen them. Thanks.

[William769]

48. You can start with this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653

[sabrina 1]

53. That's a link to an article. I'm familiar with that DUer, point out where s/he

said something to indicate she is a 'fan of Putin'? Or is this your standard for calling people Putin Fans, what they read or watch seeking all points of view? Wow!

I was called a Saddam fan by Right Wingers for posting links to Al Jazeera, but that wasn't on DU, DU was the oasis from that kind of narrow, ignorant thinking. I thought the OP was satire, riffing on the old Right Wing attacks on the Left for seeking facts and for 'reading the wrong literature', Mooooselim, treasonous trash' as they called AJ.

Pffft, I thought you were linking to something that proves the claims in the OP. Thanks anyhow, deja vu all over again, and on DU. This is getting scary.

[William769]

54. You so funny!

[sabrina 1]

56. Thanks! You too!

[840high]

81. I don't see a Putin fan.

[JackRiddler]

28. The answer is yes.

Just being helpful to the OP.

[Rex]

10. Wow, the desperation here is getting thick.

No doubt another list will be produced by the Usual Suspects.

[TBF]

19. Seriously.

I feel like we are back in the days of McCarthy or Palmer. One must not disagree with the BORG - uh I mean BOG.

[sheshe2]

29. Seriously???

When people lack answers here they attack the BOG...you use a broad brush to attack any and everyone that supports The Presidents achievements. Many here have never even posted in the Barack Obama Group, yet you brush away. Why do you have such a problem with those that support this President? You've already thrown in the funny, tee hee BORG joke. Let me guess what comes next. Obamabot, blind followers, lock step, fearless leader, oh and swooners too. I know I missed some there are lots more on this board.

Why is that? This is a Democratic board, not Discussionist.

[TBF]

35. My main problem is with capitalism as an economic system -

not this particular president. Many of us find the echo chamber re Putin simplistic and nauseating. We got the memo ok - it doesn't need to be posted a hundred thousand times along with pictures of him shirtless. In fact those photos are more disgusting than the rhetoric. This happens every time there is a major political issue. Two very extreme pictures are laid out and we must accept one or the other.

How about raising up the level of conversation a bit rather than demanding everyone think the same way?

[sheshe2]

40. Really?

Then why the snark about the BORG/BOG? The BOG is The Barack Obama Group on DU.

Post #19...You said...

I feel like we are back in the days of McCarthy or Palmer. One must not disagree with the BORG - uh I mean BOG.

You said none of what you are now stating in the post that I responded to. You just attempted a 360.

[Dragonfli]

44. I think you must have meant 180, very few appear to understand geometry it would appear.

[sheshe2]

47. Nope.

I meant a 360...a complete turn around.

I sell chairs that do the same thing, a 360~ Spin it and you are right back where you started.

[Dragonfli]

49. Then your point eludes me completely /nt

[TBF]

37. Also -

I would like to direct you to a thread in which many of us talked about what we liked about the president: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5270307

We may not agree with every issue but we all have things we like about him or we wouldn't have voted for him, whether you personally consider us supporters or not.

[sheshe2]

59. What does that have to do with your original post to me?

Post #19.

I am having computer problems and can not cut and past your comments. You made a BORG/BOG... joke with a frightened figure...this one. You said that "One must not disagree with the BORG- uh I mean BOG.

Wow you made a funny! Not.

And then you try to direct me to a thread in which many of us talked about what we liked about the president. Say what? What exactly are you spinning here? The BOG is the Barack Obama Group. You remember him, yes? He is our President. We support this President. You just ridiculed our group. Stop spinning you are making me dizzy!

[TBF]

63. I think there is a nuance you are not understanding -

1. There is a president. Many support him generally - but take issue with particular policies and/or the economic system itself.

2. There is a Bog. A group of folks who claim to support the president and will stop at nothing to make sure everyone agrees with their stated version of events.

Two different things. #2 is the group I took issue with. I hope that clarifies it for you.

[Rex]

66. I have no problems with 99% of the people here.

Just the ones (and I believe it to be a small number on both sides) that hate/worship the POTUS...it is impossible to have a real conversation with them about Obama and that is a real shame.

I refuse to hate or worship the POTUS...he is just a man after all is said and done, trying his best to the best of his abilities.

He is not a god nor is he the devil. I refuse to talk to anyone that pretends he is either two.

[TBF]

69. Agree on all counts -

and I do get tired of the talking points repeated ad naseum in every other thread.

[geek tragedy]

73. Very ironic that people who freak out when Fidel Castro gets criticized feel persecuted by the very

presence of people who support Democrats, on a Democratic message board.

[KoKo]

75. The next list is in the Secret Vault...waiting to be fully cataloged...

Stamped: "UNAPPROVED." Quite spy-like isn't it. We are not to know......YET! 's

It's cool to be good-natured about it all ....in the overall scheme of things. After all.. 's

[NYC Liberal]

83. Anyone who supports or defends Putin absolutely belongs on a list of people to avoid.

Just as I would avoid anyone who defends any other right-wing authoritarian.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Whenever the next anti-Western leader pops up to defend, probably

the same people defending Putin (or at least castigating the Ukrainian government as "illegitimate" and so on) are the same ones who had nice things to say about Hugo Chavez and Muammar Qaddafi and variously assorted other people whose most salient common feature was a shared opposition to US policy, in one form or another.

[Rex]

14. Funny that you throw Hugo in there.

Didn't know he was an unelected dictator. The things I learn on DU!

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. Putin was elected

doesn't mean he's not an authoritarian (and Chavez tried to seize power in a coup before being elected; ruled by decree; threw political opponents in prison...not my idea of a democratic leader, honestly).

[iandhr]

21. Ding ding ding.

[geek tragedy]

23. Chavez actually respected limits on his power every once and a while

and would play ball with those he publicly demonized.

His successor Maduro, on the other hand, is a much lesser man . . .

[Rex]

67. Well I guess we will see which one stays President for Life. nt

nt

[Caretha]

39. Did you think

that the Saddam Hussein regime was illegitimate?

Just wonderin'

[Hissyspit]

52. Actually some of us just spent time debunking the continual false information about Chavez here.

Usually it linked back to some right-wing rumor site.

[tabasco]

16. Yeah, when they find a new anti-Western hero to latch onto

[TwilightGardener]

22. +1000--much of it isn't so much Putin love, as America/western hate.

[sabrina 1]

46. So this OP is to accuse DUers of being Anti American? Prove it that is a disgusting

and despicable thing to say. We heard that from Freepers when we opposed the Iraq War, to see people here actually dragging that 'anti-American, McCarthyite bullshit to this site is sickening. Either prove your accusations of Anti American against good Democrats here or have the decency to retract it.

Name these Anti American haters on DU. Or they do not exist.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Meh, faux outrage. I've been reading about how much America sucks,

and why, for seven years now on DU from a number of posters and sources. I stand by my statement--some of the support for Putin is simply because he opposes America. There's a few posters who are very invested in America being taken down a notch or two, or want to see a "multipolar" world that necessitates American decline or withdrawal from the world, replaced by China, Russia, etc. Welp, fuck that shit.

[sabrina 1]

61. So there are none, you can't name a single anti American DUer, as I thought.

Same old crap, IDENTICAL to what DUers expercienced from the lunatics on the Right. Not a shred of difference, including your above comment. '

So we wanted to see 'America taken down a notch' (heard that one so many times I can't count them btw) by opposing War Criminals like Cheney/Bush, Rummy the liar, Ledeen et al?

Thanks I know all I wanted to know.

Sickening to see that here. Trust me this is not faux outrage, it is genuine disgust to see such tripe on this site.

[leftynyc]

64. You know calling out is against DU rules

so you can can our outrageous outrage. Nobody is impressed.

[truebluegreen]

77. Likewise.

[tkmorris]

17. I don't remember those people for some reason

Maybe some drive-by trolls? We've always had those.

[Mnemosyne]

32. I never recall seeing such either. Drive-bys at most. nt

[BainsBane]

18. Holy shit

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Warpy]

20. There is no Putin fan club here, you have us confused with Free Republic

There are people struggling to keep an open mind before, what was it? Oh, FACTS become known, when some of the wreckage is analyzed for explosives to determine who made the rocket if it was a rocket (although that seems most likely now) and exactly where that rocket originated and who ordered it to be fired.

Watching people jump to conclusions here based on little solid information is like watching fleas on a blanket, some of the leaps are astonishing.

You know, like the one ASSuming Putin's got any kind of a fan club at DU.

Most of us remember Iran Flight 655 and Reagan's attitude about it. It keeps us humble.

[HooptieWagon]

24. Wow, TWO strawmen.

I guess that gets you a gold star pasted on your forehead.

[Fuddnik]

26. I'm holding out for the Idi Amin fan club!

[truebluegreen]

30. IF there is a Putin fan club here

then, clearly, I have all the right people on Ignore.

[4now]

31. They will merge with the Netanyahu fan club

[geek tragedy]

57. scary thought--the

Kremlinbots and the hasbara folks joining forces

[Stevepol]

34. Not to justify Putin but I might offer some suggestions for critics of Putin

Ask yourself this: If the US were faced with an issue like the Ukraine wanting to ally itself with another power base and preventing the US from gaining access to its only direct access to the sea and threatening the US economy, does anybody seriously think that the US would not start a war to make sure this breakaway nation or state (Cuba? Puerto Rico? Texas?) failed in its objectives? If the US didn't invade (small chance), it would use every conceivable secret and illegal method possible to keep it from happening.

We started a war with Iraq, a country that is halfway across the globe over an issue that was literally fabricated, made up, and we occupied the country until a new leader was elected and got us out of the country more or less. We have invaded a number of Central American countries, we have supported many horrendous dictators because we felt they were good bulwarks against "communism" in our hemisphere. We've used all kinds of secret and conspiratorial methods to keep indigenous movements that seemed to the right wing to be "communist" from succeeding in numerous countries in Central and South America. In fact this is the main reason for the immigration problem on our border at the present moment.

My point is this: we need to have a little sympathy for Putin and for Russia. He's got the same forces inside Russia pushing him to show strength and not back down. Probably the main character trait of every country is PRIDE. How would you feel if you were Russian? I suspect Obama may have a little empathy with Putin in their private meetings and is merely talking big in front of the cameras.

But regardless of that, Putin is no more justified in his handling of the Ukraine crisis than Kennedy was in OK-ing the invasion of Cuba or Reagan was in supporting Somoza and later in funding and training the Contras in the Nicaraguan War. I'm not justifying Putin. I just think we should see the whole thing with a little more humility and less bombast. Maybe we should cast out the beam in our own eye before we start hyper-ventilating over the mote in somebody else's.

[geek tragedy]

72. Putin is exactly like Reagan was towards Nicaragua.

Which earns him all of the scorn he's earning. Reagan was that awful.

Russia already had its seaport--no one was talking about revoking its lease on the bases there.

Mexico is more than free to make its own alliances with China without fear of a US invasion.

[Xolodno]

84. Heh....

"Mexico is more than free to make its own alliances with China without fear of a US invasion. "

...thats utter bullshit and you know it!

If Mexico started buying advanced arms, developed a huge anti-American philosophy...which DOES exist under the surface.. (I'll never forget the graffiti on a wall in Mexicali during a college field trip...roughly translated "The invasion is here! McDonald's, Coca-Cola, etc.)...stopped cooperating with the US government on all "current issues", etc....

I can guaran-damn-tee you "we would have to invade to stop the narcotics terrorists".

If you don't believe that...then you wear horse blinders and believe in unicorns. Elements of the US government are completely corrupt (see CIA spying on Germany without Obamas knowledge or approval).

....................


Putin is an ass...but no more of an ass than some elected US leaders. The damn problem is the CIA and those heavily connected to it are STILL pursuing a policy of weakening Russia via turning nations on its border against it (can't do it via ngo's in Russia since they were outlawed by Putin). The CIA see's a self sufficient Russia who is friendly with the EU, China, India, Brazil, etc. as threat to American Imperialism. In the CIA eye's...God forbid a nation and its people have self determination absent US influence.

Bottom line, the US Government had no business in Ukraine. IF and that's a fucking big "IF", the US had absolutely no involvement in the protests, then the US position should have been neutral, urging calm, asking the government to listen to the demands of its people, etc. Instead we had a fucking neo-con ambassador handing out cookies in public with cameras (to demonstrate US solidarity with the protestors) and the same ambassador saying "fuck the EU". And US propagandist cheer leaders saying..."none of that means anything"...yeah...right...sure pal....we all believe that bullshit.

This problem should have been set squarely upon the EU and Russia....and the US government should have told them to figure out this millennium age problem once and for all. Make Ukraine its own nation that was neutral or partition the pro Russia and pro EU parts. Only dummies believe that the fall of the Soviet Union has solved border, cultural, economic, ethnic, etc. issues once and for all. This is fall out from that...and certain groups *cough*CIA*cough* trying to capitalize.

[geek tragedy]

85. one of us is peddling bullshit, friend, that person is not I

1) You know why Russia's neighbors are turning against it? Answer: Russia and its attempts to dominate its neighbors. Turns out that many people do not like being servants of the Russian empire and its Tsar.

2) Your defense of Putin's odious crackdown on NGO's is nothing short of supporting fascism.

3) Your silly "CIA is persecuting poor innocent anti-imperialist Russia" is kinda belied by the fact that the two main conflicts between the US and Russia have occurred over (1) Russia's support for a dictator whose government used poison gas against his own people and (2) Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

4) Anyone who condemns the handing out of cookies as though it were a war crime does not deserve to be taken seriously

5) Your last paragraph is astonishing in that you think the EU and Russia should cut a deal between themselves to define Ukraine's borders and its future. You don't even consider that maybe the UKRAINIANS should have a voice in the matter.

Good day.

[840high]

82. Wise post.

[Cha]

36. My guess..

No, they're too invested.. they'll keep coming up with shit just like putin does.

[Caretha]

42. Look

I'm a lonely old woman...60ish let's say. I like Putin's chest...yeah really. I know it's a bit flabby in places, and his nips turn down, but him ridin' a flat tailed beaver down a river...or is it a bear? turns me on.

So add me to his fascist fan club will ya? I'm just not that proud, and I could care less about waiting for facts to come in...or if he's guilty or not of pushin that button (he's manly enough you know to push it himself or order it to be pushed).

Well I'll end this just sayin'..I'm a proud member of the Putin is a Great Guy Club (not a selfish power hungry A*%H#@w like the rest of them there leaders - excludin all our American Presidentes of course

[Kaleva]

38. We even have a Ba'ath Party support group here.

Don't say anything negative about any Ba'athist lest you be accused of being "prejudiced" and of "bigotry".

[CreekDog]

41. There are two kinds of people defending Putin here, I consider one kind beneath contempt

it's not those who are simply far to the left.

it's those who don't post liberally and seem to be here mostly to defend Russian actions, policies and criticize those things that Russia (or Putin) has acted against.

i'm referring to those who are as subtle as a Pravda writer during the Cold War.

i'm not calling them communists, i'm calling what they are doing as something that reads like it's the efforts of a PR person posting talking points to influence the debate here.

and it is effing obvious to the core.

[Hekate]

51. +1

[geek tragedy]

70. I would reverse that, actually, the ones who purport to be to the left

but wind up promoting fascism reveal themselves to be fascists themselves, not leftists. There is nothing about siding with Putin that promotes the left's ideas. It's simply knee-jerk partisanship wherein the authoritarians fall in line behind against the enemy they have grown up hating, in this case the enemy being the dreaded 'decadent west.'

the Kremlin's professional trolls are, as an article noted, just selling a political hairdryer. it's advertising copy. nothing personal, but it's just hard finding work in Russia.

[BayouBengal07]

78. Useful idiots.

They're people who haven't realized that Russia no longer represents (if it ever did) the "vanguard party" of the left against Western "imperialism," and they fail to recognize that Putin's crony-capitalist, anti-gay, increasingly Orthodox Church-gripped petrostate is closer to the fascism they purport to fight. The same people buying $20 Ché shirts from the mall.

[DemocraticWing]

55. Putin's homophobia is indefensible

People who try to stick up for him are defending one of the vilest fascist creeps on Earth.

[enid602]

58. Maduro

You don't have to go back 10 years. What happened to the Maduro fan club?

[Behind the Aegis]

62. Maybe they will get their bell rung?

[davidpdx]

65. One can only hope

[Blue_Tires]

68. Some DUers are forced to support Putin

as long as he's giving shelter and protection to you-know-who...

[Codeine]

71. What are you talking about? It's the same bloody crowd!

Some of the names have changed but the posters remain the same.

[KoKo]

76. Does it cause you to itch....like flea infestation...

It seems to cause some discomfort to some...but such joy in posting about it. Does it alleviate the annoying itch...?

[MADem]

79. Not before they drive a lot of old school DUers off the board, I'll bet...! nt

[KittyWampus]

80. Heck, there were DU'ers recently saying Chavez was really just resting…..

[geek tragedy]

86. or that the US injected him with cancer juice nt