What can we do about the obesity epidemic?

[Harmony Blue]

better self awareness? More group outdoor activities? Cheaper and more readily available vegetables and fruits?

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Development that's less-focused on cars

people are less physically active in many places because it's simply not an option; how many people live in subdivisions miles away from anything at all, with no sidewalks and no pedestrian and cyclist-friendly infrastructure?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Yes, I gained weight after moving from Portland to mostly car-dependent Minneapolis

but that's only part of the problem.

The other part is that bad food is cheaper than good food, unless a person knows how to and has the time and facilities to cook from scratch.

But home ec. was dropped from a lot of schools because it was a "frill."

[laundry_queen]

112. Yep, vegetables and fruit are prohibitively expensive, except for some 'basics'.

I did and experiment this year where I made all my dinners from scratch - including dressings, sauces, etc. Everything was made with herbs, plants, fruits and vegetables etc. Plus, lean cuts of meat, complex carbs and so on. It added 35% to my grocery bill. And that was just adjusting my dinners, not breakfast or lunches.

I did a comparison in the grocery store - my kids take bagged lunches to school so I need to buy things they can transport easily and can last until lunch without refrigeration. But every time I looked, healthy alternatives cost 2-3 times more than a cheap alternative. 6 apples or 12 granola bars. A pint of strawberries or 2 family size bags of chips. A bag of grapes (to last a day) or a bulk box of 'cereal bars' (to last a month). We stuck to celery and carrots for vegetables for lunches because those are the only vegetables around here that are a reasonable price.

I know some people here declare it's easy to cook from scratch cheaply - I disagree. I think you can with beans and rice, but that's hardly well rounded nutrition and for someone like me it's too many carbs. We need more vegetables and fruits to be readily available. I look at the diet my grandparents had - so many fruits and vegetables at every single meal - ironically, because they were poor and that's what they grew in their garden or gathered in the woods. A typical day at my grandmothers was toast with homemade jam, eggs from the chickens and rhubarb compote for breakfast. Some kind of soup, vegetable based with hints of beans, chicken, beef, noodles or barley depending on the type of soup, w/bread, a chunk of left over meat from the night before and a salad for lunch and canned or fresh blueberries for dessert. Dinner was usually some kind of roasted meat (raised on the farm or killed while hunting), gravy, bread, 2 kinds of salad, potatoes, cooked vegetables (usually green beans or carrots or peas) and canned fruit or a fruit pie for dessert. Snacks were often things like fresh berries or canned fruit w/cream or canned tomatoes w/bread, or raw veggies (in the summer). They ate well, but every meal was FULL of veggies or fruits (well, breakfast not so much). Everything was gathered, or from the garden or from the farm (so cheap or free). It's not something that is attainable for my family. The same amount of fresh fruits and vegetables is extremely expensive. I have my own garden but I have a very tiny yard so it's just not enough.

I really wish they would subsidize fruits and vegetables the same way they do corn.

[raccoon]

86. That would be the first step, I think. nt

[yeoman6987]

89. How about leaving people alone to live

Their own lives.

[Spider Jerusalem]

93. Does that actually mean anything?

"Urban planners, zoning boards, and real-estate developers" aren't "people" in the sense of "individual homeowners/citizens", but their decisions affect the ways thousands, or millions, live. More sensible planning focused on things like public transit and pedestrian and cyclist infrastructure is beneficial for everyone and contributes to reducing dependence on cars and thus lowering oil consumption and emissions (among other things); this is something that has impact beyond just obesity.

[JohLast]

144. this

[Marrah_G]

2. Bring back cooking and nutrition classes to schools.

[YarnAddict]

39. Good idea

But make them mandatory for both male and female students. Let's not go back to the days when girls took "Home Ec" while the boys took "Shop."

[deafskeptic]

77. Personally, I think all students should take both shop and home ec! n/t

[YarnAddict]

79. Yup!

There have been many times I've wished I could have been taught to fix things. My parents were older (Depression/WWII era) and the division of labor I grew up with was women took care of the house, men worked and fixed things. I married a man who has a completely different idea of the way things should work. More like, "If you want something fixed, fix it yourself, or call a repairman."

[awoke_in_2003]

135. Agreed...

doing minor repairs and knowing the basics of cooking are vital to both sexes.

[phylny]

172. You are spot on, Marrah_G.

I work in a lot of houses for Early Intervention and made the comment to my daughters that many families don't cook, they "heat stuff up." That's the case for most families I visit.

[Marrah_G]

185. Yes- and they don't even know the basics

Also basic budget and banking skills. Longer school days and more life skills would go a long way in improving lives.

[packman]

3. Destroy every hand held device in America

At a cardiologist office waiting my turn. 13 people in chairs , 8 on devices or with cell phones pressed to their ears and most of those eight obese.

But, Americans need to really realize what portion sizing means. A few days stay at a hospital can teach you rather quickly about how much you stack on your plate and how much you really need to survive.

OR-- there's alternatives to that "exercise more, eat less" nonsense:


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[treestar]

21. Wonder if capitalism would allow for

a cafeteria or restaurant that did that. I would patronize that.

Though some people do have will power. My mother brings home half her entrees when she goes to restaurants.

[Silent3]

146. A "hand held device" has been a huge aid in weight loss for me

My smartphone makes it easy to look up calorie counts and other nutritional information on all kinds of food.

Using GPS and the Walkmeter app, my phone tracks the speed, distance, and calories burned when I walk, run, and hike mountain trails.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. I'd start by stopping subsidies for corn and sugar.

Treat sugar-laden kiddie foods like cigarettes - no advertising them on tv, in magazines.

Put nutritionists on staff at k-12 schools, give nutritionally appropriate free breakfasts and lunches to all kids at school.

Put nutrition and biology classes as ongoing parts of school curricula.

Oh, and ban the shelving up things like candy and gum in checkout lines at stores. You can still sell it, but customers should have to get it from regular aisles in the store, not have it surrounding them constantly as they're waiting with whining kids in lines and are desperate to shut them up.

[polichick]

41. Yes - get the crap out of our food supply. Criminal that we're forced to pay for it too!

Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2014, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

[lunasun]

136. +1

[Arugula Latte]

55. Bingo. Start with the subsidies.

[NutmegYankee]

6. Shaming is just legitimized bullying.

Only assholes and rapists shame people. Obesity is a health problem and is now being linked to many environmental and chemical factors as well as the modern diet. Attacking the obese is in many ways attacking the victim.

[AngryAmish]

9. So social ostricization of racists is bullying...

Most things in life is not due to laws but social pressure. Do you think it is ok to tell the obese that they are perfectly normal and not killing themselves and their kids?

[Ms. Toad]

71. Obese does not inherenly equal killing yourself, or even particularly being unhealthy.

I invite you to see if you can keep up with me and my little obese body on a 150 mile bike ride 2 weeks from today.

I am generally healthy, and have no weight related health conditions (diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc.)

Treat the health conditions, not the umbrella of obesity. Fixating on obesity does two things. First many obese people have had the experience of being told, "If you'd just lose weight, Symptom X wouldn't be an issue - only to establish later that Symptom X had nothing to with weight and had progressed while the doctor was twiddling his thumbs waiting for the patient to lose weight. And second, even some of the diseases traditionally associated with weight are not connected in a particular person and, again, while the doctor is treating by urging weight control, the disease progresses.

[nomorenomore08]

75. Why is it okay to socially ostracize the overweight? You really think that'll help anything? n/t

[WinkyDink]

96. Racism is the equivalent to you of obesity? That's effed-up.

[AngryAmish]

107. You win for not understanding what is an analogy

Jeez.

[whistler162]

127. No you made your views very

clear.

[cyberswede]

165. It was a poor analogy.

The factors making up obesity and racism are totally incomparable.

You might get more traction out of the smoking comparison, except that the decrease in smoking is due much more to education, eliminating smoking in public areas, cost, etc. than to socially ostracizing smokers. Even this comparison is fairly weak, because smoking is a choice, whereas eating is not.

Obesity is a systemic side effect of our culture, and until we treat the problem as the public health epidemic that it is, it will continue to be a problem.

[laundry_queen]

115. Yeah not even close.

Studies show shaming obese people makes them...more obese. And a newer study showing it's pretty much impossible to lose weight and keep it off long term. So you go ahead and in your mind justify your bullying of fat people (and equate them to racists) to make them skinny (even though it never works). Good for you, you should be proud.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/diet-fitness/fat-shaming-actually-increases-risk-becoming-or-staying-obese-new-f8C10751491
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585

[whistler162]

126. So you think obese people are the

same as racists! OKAY!!!!

[AngryAmish]

130. Have you ever heard of an analogy?

If not, then I am lost. The debate of ideas is over.

[alp227]

160. A jury gets it too.

The "shame" post was hidden in a UNANIMOUS jury decision!

[NutmegYankee]

161. Thanks!

That was one of the most horrible things I've seen on DU in a long while. There are so many people who really really don't want to be overweight, and on top of that despair people heap additional emotional trauma by thinking that it will correct them being overweight.

[handmade34]

8. uh... no, lots we an do

make corporations that market food responsible

teach nutrition and food preparation (educate people about what is in their food)

increase the minimum wage

put more emphasis on physical education in school (including more funding)

end subsidies for sugar and corn and extend them for fruits and vegetables

encourage people to grow gardens

follow Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" project

make access to health care easier

etc.....

[All_Corners]

28. Ahh...

I thought you wanted to talk about what worked...

Study after study shows that people will go out of their way to eat junk that is farther away and costs more than healthier alternatives. They found that folks ate more fast food when they saw how many calories were in a #2 super size meal. So much for education...

What really changed smokers from 80% of the populace to 20%? Every nosey busy body hacking their lungs out every time they got a whiff of cigarette smoke and everything associated with it...

[BuelahWitch]

32. Care to give a link to your "studies"?

[All_Corners]

33. I'll start you off...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/15/calorie-labels-fast-food-menu-restaurant_n_4269147.html

The rest are out there...

[BuelahWitch]

40. These studies refute themselves

"After labeling began in Philadelphia, about 10 percent of the respondents in our study said that calorie labels at fast-food chains resulted in them choosing fewer calories.... another study showed that New York City residents actually purchased more calories after mandatory labeling went into effect in the city. However, a study in teens showed that they were less likely to buy a full-calorie drink if they saw the calorie counts for drinks posted near a beverage case."

So no, not everybody decided to eat more calories after the calorie counts were posted.

[cyberswede]

162. Here's a study that showed positive results

I think it's a good start.

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/op/concessions

Pep-rallies, marching bands, cheers, chants, and savory, indulgent foods sold at concession stands are all beloved features of the American high school sports tradition.

In contrast to the nutrition requirements on breakfast and lunches sold in school cafeterias, foods sold at concession stands do not follow the standard nutrition guidelines because they are typically sold for fundraising purposes. Is there something that can be done to improve the healthful features of concession stand food, and preserve the profits they generate?

In this study published in the Journal of Public Health, we identified two successful strategies for improving the nutritional quality of foods sold at concession stands: 1) offer 5-10 healthy food options 2) modify the ingredients of popular items to contain less saturated and trans fats.

Here's the article in the Journal of Public Health:
http://jpubhealth.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/03/12/pubmed.fdu015.abstract

[eShirl]

19. 'Fat shaming' actually increases risk of becoming or staying obese

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/diet-fitness/fat-shaming-actually-increases-risk-becoming-or-staying-obese-new-f8C10751491

[nomorenomore08]

76. +1000

[JackRiddler]

152. Can you believe people say such things?!

I despair!

[AngryAmish]

7. Social pressure

Make being overweight unacceptable. Shame those abled bodied people who drive 1/4 a mile to the store.

Stop enabling people who say they are healthy when they have pre-diabetes. It is not polite to refuse to tell people that they should not consider cheetos to be an acceptable meal for them or their children.

Children do not need sweets everyday. In fact they should not. Juice boxes are a treat. Same with cookies. Cake is for birthdays.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. Try moving somewhere with no sidewalks or pedestrian infrastructure...

and see how you feel about walking anywhere. (Especially in the summer when it's 90+ out with the sun beating down directly overhead.)

[Chan790]

45. I do like that you're the only person thus far to note connections between obesity and muni-planning

It's the big thing. Not diet, not education, not portion-size, not corn-subsidies, not where in the store the goddamned candy is, not posting calorie information...the magic bullet is in how we design our communities. I just moved from Washington DC to rural CT about 7 months ago...changing nothing about why or how I eat, exercise, or anything else--I gained 40lbs. (Actually, I was probably eating healthier post-move as there's no longer a Chipotle downstairs.)

The difference is that I'm no longer walking 1/4mi at a time 10-20 times/day to catch buses, make transit-transfers, walk to/from my destination, do my shopping. All that walking necessary and possible to live in cities or even well-designed suburbs adds up...it's the difference maker. We're not really going to correct this problem without a great deal of willpower and effort or changing how we design and build community.

Germans aren't thinner than us because they eat healthier...in fact, their diets are terrible...Manhattanites aren't thinner because they eat healthier either. They're thinner because their lifestyles are largely car-free and pediambulatory.

[BrotherIvan]

50. ^^This!^^

A million times! Yes, we do need better nutrition, but we also need outdoor common spaces, public transportation and correctly planned cities (sounds pretty good for the environment and mental health too). But that would mean we put health and welfare over maximum profits and we can't have that! We have so far to go to have the mindset of European countries about health that we will never get close.

[nomorenomore08]

78. +2

"Germans aren't thinner than us because they eat healthier...in fact, their diets are terrible...Manhattanites aren't thinner because they eat healthier either. They're thinner because their lifestyles are largely car-free and pediambulatory."

[former9thward]

109. A good book for city planners or those trying to influence city planners

is Walkable City: How Downtown Can Save America One Step at a Time by Jeff Speck. The book is full of workable ideas and examples of how to get people walking again.

[laundry_queen]

119. Yep, even a small amount of walking makes a difference

I've noticed a really horrible trend in my area - 'mega' schools. They are cheaper because it's only one building to manage instead of many. So many older elementary schools spread out over the neighborhoods are being closed down in favor of larger schools in a centralized location. Obviously, this means kids are far less likely to walk to school. They simply cannot. For instance, my 7 year old goes to a school that is a 40 minute walk away. There is no being able to walk for her, especially in the winter. However, a new school near our house (we got lucky - the new mega school is in our neighborhood) is going up and she will be able to walk. But at her old school - very few kids walked, and we are a very safe community, with a large population of stay at home mothers. Most were just too far away. I've noticed this 'mega school' trend is becoming more common for school districts looking to save a buck - and to the children's detriment. One bit of exercise kids always used to get was walking to and from school. Increased paranoia about abductions as well as distance from schools has taken away that extra exercise kids used to get every day.

[smirkymonkey]

170. +1000

[Arugula Latte]

180. I think it is more complicated than "people walk more in cities."

There is also a strong cultural component to eating, which is hard to nail down.

It has to do with the types of food and portions of food that are culturally "the norm," and attitudes toward eating and weight.

I live technically in a city, but it is closer to a suburb in terms of the way people live their lives (most must drive to shopping, etc.) But the cultural norm is to eat healthily, go to farmer's markets, mostly shun fast food except as an occasional treat, exercise and work out regularly, etc. In the local schools obesity is very, very unusual. I'd say 95 percent of the kids are of a healthy weight.

However, not far from here in a close-in suburb, where the amount of driving/walking that goes on is roughly equal, but the culture is different, being overweight to obesity is far more common.

[snooper2]

203. explain Mexico then-

[Chan790]

206. What about Mexico? n/t

[laundry_queen]

116. Or in the winter with a windchill that will freeze exposed skin in 10 minutes. nt

[hughee99]

18. Exactly. Fat people should feel bad about themselves.

Their problem is that their self-esteem is too high. If we can just make them feel bad about themselves, they'll be healthier.

[All_Corners]

29. Some of them...

[raccoon]

87. I guess those who are overweight because of their meds could carry a

sign that said so.

[treestar]

20. Sounds like a right winger

Enjoys judging others. And wants the chance for it to be considered "polite" to get in their face about it. And to enjoy feeling superior for supposedly being thinner.

[eShirl]

22. yes.. if only this country had been fat shaming all along there would be no problem now

Fat shaming works in the sense that Abstinence-Only Sex Education prevents unwed teen pregnancies.

[All_Corners]

31. Talk to the smokers...

... and ask them.

[jeff47]

37. You can stop smoking. You can't stop eating or you die.

The same tactics and systems can not be used for both.

[All_Corners]

63. It's a 90% solution and it's well underway...

There just happens to be a bigger force pushing back on it that wasn't there for the smokers.

[jeff47]

111. No, it really isn't.

You have to keep eating or you die.
You can stop smoking and still live.

Yo-yo dieting happens because people go back to their old eating habits because they still have to eat to survive.

[All_Corners]

123. You don't have to eat like crap...

... in America.

[jeff47]

124. Yet you still have to eat

That's the entire point that keeps whistling over your head.

And, btw, you can get fat eating healthy food. Too much of any food will cause you to gain weight.

[All_Corners]

143. Not eating like crap includes not eating to excess...

If anyone is stupid enough to think they can eat 15 pounds of brown rice and chicken every day and all will be well... They deserve what they get as much as the guy snarfing down whoppers 3 times a day.

[jeff47]

156. So....are you always utterly oblivious?

The point: You can't stop eating or you die. You can stop other vices like smoking. Strategies for the one do not work for the other.

It's been pointed out to you repeatedly, yet you just refuse to even think about it.

So....you mentally challenged, or just unable to consider anything beyond your scope of experience?

[LanternWaste]

223. More often than not, there's going to be That Guy who pretends he knows who deserves what...

"they deserve what they get..."

More often than not, there's going to be That Guy who pretends he knows who deserves what...

[RebelOne]

97. It is easier for me to stop eating than to stop smoking.

Unfortunately, I am addicted to nicotine but not addicted to food. Nicotine helps curb my appetite. I am 75 years old and have been smoking since I was 16. I only stopped smoking twice in my life and that was when I was pregnant with my two children. Cigarettes made me sick, but right after the births I started smoking to lose the baby fat. It would be nice if I could trick my body into thinking it was pregnant.

[jeff47]

110. Briefly. Then you'll find you want food. Somewhere around 3x a day. (nt)

[laundry_queen]

121. LOL only if you believe it was shaming that made them all stop

instead of rising cigarette prices. Every single ex-smoker I know quit because of the cost, not because people were being assholes to them about their smoking.

[AngryOldDem]

38. But I see this happening, eventually....

I posted in another thread yesterday that my employer has now offered a break on health insurance if people 1) take an online questionnaire about their health and health habits; 2) get a biometric screening; and 3) sign up to commit to walking at least 20,000 steps a month (counted with a pedometer, which is provided and free). Right now this is all being marketed with an upbeat, exercise-and-losing-weight-can-be-fun attitude. Teams have been formed and exercise events have started to make this more attractive.

But I think sooner rather than later all this will change into a more draconian policy of lose the weight or lose the job. This is already the possible outcome for employees who signed a smoking cessation pledge. There are far, far too many obese and morbidly obese people where I work and this has to be costing the employer big time -- more than what it is wiling to pay.

Employers will next target obesity, as much as they did smoking.

That said, the same people who sign up for this program also go down to the cafeteria for breakfast and lunch everyday, and are treated to a menu full of fried foods with generous portions, which can be supersized if desired. Outside of the salad bar, I see very little healthy eating options here.

[2theleft]

60. We might work at the same place!

We do an option in one of several cafeterias in our complex that are a healthier alternative, but not completely healthy. I just sent a request to our department leading this effort to invest in laptop friendly treadmills or recumbent bikes at some of our "cube" farms... I would love to take a stroll on the treadmill while doing e-mail or working on a presentation.

[Freddie]

133. Used to work in a hospital

And the food, while delicious, was shockingly unhealthy! Huge portions (the only burger was 8 oz) and much of it swimming in sauces or fried. Yes there was a salad bar and fresh fruit, which was the most expensive thing there.
I think that's a major part of the problem, that the healthy choices are always the most expensive. With limited resources, would most people get a $6 salad or fill their bellies for $4 off the dollar menu?

[jeff47]

36. Your advice is utterly terrible.

I've been overweight my entire life.

Social pressure and shame doesn't fix it. All those do is make the overweight person retreat more. Thus getting less exercise and doing more comfort eating.

It results in thinking, "I'm never going to stop being fat, so I might as well just eat this large pizza and a gallon of ice cream".

[Ms. Toad]

72. Just stop it.

I am obese. I am healthy. I do not have pre-diabetes. And I rode my bike 17 miles to work, and 17 miles home on Thursday - and will at least twice next week.

[WinkyDink]

94. Because there just hasn't been ENOUGH in the last 150 years!

[REP]

181. Hey, can I try that on dipshits who post moronic bullshit?

Let's make being uniformed, awkward and just plain stupid unacceptable. Shame those who post idiotic crap, because if they don't know better, the only way will is is enough people point out just how painfully, embarrassingly stupid their "great ideas" are, and that they should hide inside forever lest anyone catch onto just how unbelievably mindless they are.

If I saw your post on the sidewalk, I'd make sure not to get it in my shoes. If your post were on fire, I wouldn't cross the street to piss on it. I've read some really, really stupid things on the Internet, but holy shit, you must have worked extra hard to come up with something that fucking dumb.

How's that working for ya? Smarter yet?

[Marrah_G]

186. Shame does the opposite of what you want it to do

[Little Star]

11. Get growth hormones out of our dairy and beef cattle....

Common sense tells me that those hormones get passed along to humans.

[laundry_queen]

122. +1. And endocrine disruptors out of everything else. nt

[pleinair]

157. Totally agree n/t

[Codeine]

167. Or, even better, get dairy out of your diet.

Cow's milk is not appropriate for human consumption.

[Little Star]

168. People have been drinking milk for thousands of years....

Most people have no problem consuming dairy products.

[lovuian]

12. In Germany the state offers free sponsored sports teams

Sports teams for fun are sponsored by the government

such as basketball soccer ice hockey volleyball etc...

facilities uniforms and referees all paid by the government
and they encourage the programs

they encourage bike riding and walking .....by using mass transportation
people don't need a car

[eridani]

132. Taking the commuter train from downtown Munich to the airport--

--suburbs and then small towns. Every train station had a huge covered bike rack area.

[workinclasszero]

13. Refute the high carb/man made-frankenfood/low fat/gov-big food companies lies and propaganda

with scientific reality.

http://www.examiner.com/article/time-magazine-debunks-calorie-myth-low-carb-paleo-style-diet-aids-weight-loss

No human being on this earth should consume more than about 20 teaspoons of sugar a year...ever!

For millions of years thats about all humans would get, and our bodies are still set up that way.

The obesity and type 2 epidemic is the result of the massive overload of sugar in the last 50 years or so.

Also the bogus low fat is good for you theory pushed people into stuffing bread, pasta, chips, junk foods to numerous to mention down our collective throats because "its good for you".

All lies!

[flvegan]

14. Start with an adequate nutrition curriculum in medical school.

It's damn shameful that most physicians can't tell a patient how to properly fuel their body.

Next, mandatory nutrition classes in junior high and high school. Not some shit corporate sponsored class, either.

Cheaper, more readily available quality food would be an excellent shift as well.

[Gormy Cuss]

139. I like the school idea and would add integrating school cafeterias as labs for those classes.

Edible schoolyards too, because it teaches kids to think about the source of their food.

[99Forever]

15. Stop spending the majority of our lives...

... looking at pixels on a screen.

Yesterday, I watched in amazement, as a young lady (18ish?) couldn't even stop texting while she was checking out items at the self-serve checkout in a grocery store. Seemed a perfect example of what our society has become to me.

[TheDebbieDee]

16. To start, ban WHITE sugar!

Then, ban those motorized wheelchairs for paraplegics under 40! Most young paraplegics were very fit from pushing themselves around in their wheelchairs.

[Codeine]

67. White sugar has been around a lot longer than the obesity epidemic.

As with everything, it's fine in reasonable moderation.

[TheDebbieDee]

74. White sugar HAS been around for a long time...

But it's only been cheap enough for EVERYONE to buy for the last 40 or 50 years. Before that , the poorest of us had to settle for the much healthier molasses or raw sugar.

[nomorenomore08]

80. Removing refined sugar and/or corn syrup from products where they're not needed -

there's HFCS in ketchup nowadays for Christ's sake - would probably make a difference.

[Spider Jerusalem]

108. The USDA maintains price supports on sugar at 18.75¢ per pound above the world market price

as a subsidy to the corn industry (which is why HFCS is used as a sweetener in everything in the USA instead of cane or beet sugar).

[treestar]

17. Social rules

About eating. Eating being involved in most get-togethers. Eating having to be on a schedule.

I could do much better if I could always eat alone and only when hungry. And had total control of what was in the house. I can do OK at restaurant as most of them have something that will work.

I am OK with exercise but could imagine a lot of people need less pressure to be in certain places at certain times.

[Mnemosyne]

23. Maybe start with people minding their own business. Walk a mile in others shoes and all. nt

[lost-in-nj]

141. I am thinking the same thing

it really blows my mind that some people feel the need to put others down with out knowing what is going on with their lives.... but then again, it's all about the drama.. start a thread that hits home to some people and sit back and watch the show..... sad but true


lost

[Mnemosyne]

166. Judging people by their weight is sickening. They have no clue what those people's lives

are like. I took the drug Zyprexa and it caused me to gain much weight and haven't been able to shake it off after 10 years of trying.

People have been manipulated by media to believe that their only value is in what they own and how they look, pitiful.

[WinkyDink]

24. How about anorexic kindergarten girls?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/anorexia-nervosa-strike-kill-early-kindergarten/story?id=18581747

[nomorenomore08]

81. Two sides of the same coin. A lot of obese people have eating disorders too -

just in the opposite direction.

[WinkyDink]

99. It is the SAME side. How do you think kids GET the idea they should be skinny?

[nomorenomore08]

101. This country has a totally screwed-up relationship with food and the human body.

You see that reflected in both mass obesity and mass anorexia/bulimia.

[AngryAmish]

91. The number one eating disorder in the first world is overeating.

[WinkyDink]

92. It isn't a "disorder." It may well be a vice (gluttony), but it is in itself not a disorder.

[AngryAmish]

100. Anything that reduces quality of life and years of life is clearly disordered.

Does riding in the wal-mart amigo seem like a good and normal thing? Should society encourage that?

[HereSince1628]

25. First thing, move towards understanding that obesity is a shared outcome

of multiple processes, and that some people seem to well tolerate obesity.

Most people don't even realize the associations of many of these processes.

How many people do you know who talk about obesity and sleep disorder, and the multiple things that can cause sleep disorders?

I'd bet very few, and proportionally, I'd bet 100 times less often than people mention over-eating and inactivity.

Oh, and do we realize that over-eating and inactivity are sometimes symptoms of untreated mental illnesses?

Hmm. IMAGINE THAT?!!!!!!!


Once we get clear on that we might move towards helping people towards solutions to the potentially various processes that are at work in their individual lives.

[Scout]

197. thanks for bringing in the sleep disorder issue!

i just started using a CPAP machine ... and among other positive changes one MIGHT expect from now getting proper sleep are weight loss, normalized blood pressure, migraine headaches stop and no need for the medicine.

fortunately i don't suffer from diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, but i am overweight.

[tabbycat31]

26. Stop subsidizing crap foods

And I would start by teaching nutrition in school (including to doctors, who see weight loss as a product they push. A friend tried to lose weight and her doctor put her on some powder diet and she couldn't eat real foods. Why didn't the doctor tell her to eat more produce).

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. $4.00 a gallon tax on gas.

Outlaw Mountain Dew.

Program video game consoles to only work for two hours out of three.

Lots of stuff we *can* do.

[HereSince1628]

30. The V.A. thinks both my type 2 diabetes and heart disease are from Agent Orange

and not obesity. When diagnosed, I was overweight, but not clinically obese.

Lots of stuff we 'can' do to make people healthy are based on overly broad assumptions about causation.

Before getting too far down the road soing "what we can do", we need to understand that most of us don't understand the multifactorial contributor to the bad outcomes often associated with obesity.

While the statistics suggest that many obese people are associated with bad health outcomes Some people tolerate obesity pretty well. And many things can contribute to bad health outcomes.

We ought not be as concerned about what we can do as we could be concerned about what we SHOULD do.

What should be done is very likely to vary between and among individuals.

[hughee99]

44. Exactly. Making sure poorer people can't afford

To get to work will make people healthier. All that money they used to spend on food will now be spent on gas.

The government would just need to take a VERY active role in people's daily lives (what they do, when they do it. How long they do it for) and I'm sure we can fix this. Who's could possibly object to the government setting your daily schedule for you?

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Then the Op should have asked a different question.

"What will we do?"

The answer of course is "wring our hands and gnash our teeth".

[hughee99]

58. Perhaps we didn't read it the same way.

I read it as a "what steps could we take to combat this" not "what theoretical steps could an all powerful government with the singular goal of making people thinner" take.

Why not forced liposuction? It won't make people much healthier, but it will make them thinner.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Something I've completely lost patience with...

Is collective responsibility for individual choice coupled with hypersensitivity about criticism of those choices.

This thread is a perfect example.

Q) What do we do about the social problem of obesity?
A) Compel, encourage and educate people to change the lifestyle that makes them fat.
Q) We can't do that! That's fat shaming!
A) Okay then, it's not my problem.
Q) How can you be so irresponsible and heartless?
A) If none of the tools for fixing the problem that are within our social control are useable, then I'm we're not collectively responsible for the outcomes.

There's an element of having it both ways at work here. If we believe in individual freedom, then obese people should be respected in that choice. If we believe in collective responsibility, then we need to accept that the people for whom we're intervening would prefer otherwise.

Most of the "we can't" responses to this or any number of perceived problems have nothing to do with "can't".

People can't tolerate high gas taxes because they consume so much fuel.
Governments can't afford public transportation because they have so many miles of roads to maintain and police.
Governments can't afford good schools because jails are so expensive, etc, etc.

We can't afford to do the right thing because doing the wrong thing has become so expensive.

[hughee99]

70. I agree with you to a certain degree.

Society can't "fix" a problem of personal choice through any method anyone here would find acceptable. At best, society can only make people aware of the consequences of their choices and hope people chose to make the "right" decisions. You can't make one person responsible for another's personal choices.

[nomorenomore08]

83. "If we believe in individual freedom, then obese people should be respected in that choice."

To be honest, I lean a bit more that way myself. A stranger's weight is none of my business.

Also, being a bigger guy myself, I'd rather not be hypocritical about this.

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. The problem here is that people ordinarily don't decide to be overweight the day they become adults

I think we do have a responsibility to "compel, educate and encourage" kids to model behaviors which promote their success as adults.

We don't let them buy alcohol or cigarettes and we pay millions for PSA's for this reason.

[nomorenomore08]

95. Totally agree there. But positive reinforcement is the way to go about it. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

103. I'm not so sure.

Kids are discouraged from smoking by making it illegal and punishable to sell cigarettes to them.

Am I extrapolating an obesity campaign from this example? No, not really. I'm simply saying that not every public problem should be addressed by a carrot. Sometimes the stick is useful.

[nomorenomore08]

104. "Sometimes the stick is useful." True enough. n/t

[Harmony Blue]

120. You can advocate for broad social change via law

but I think self empowerment and knowledge do more in the long run.

Someone up thread brought up that they live in an area where there are no sidewalks and it is 90 degrees outside. Living myself in Florida that is pretty much a reality for most neighborhoods as well along with combating the humidity. But yoga and tai chi are all options for those that must be indoors. Free weights tend to be harder for those inexperienced but also an option. Most people don't realize how many calories you can burn by doing stretching routines or simply walking for 5-10 minutes.

Diet is an important aspect of it but as you have pointed out activity is the bigger part of it. European foods or even Asian foods are not known for being light when it comes to calories, fats, or carbs. But the people in Europe and Asia tend to be more active though.

American foods tend to be fattening but not that much more than South American, Mexican, Canadian, European, African, Asian, etc.

Portions and activity are not emphasized enough in the U.S. education system IMO. As others have pointed out that charts we have been taught as children about the food pyramid is so wrong.

[Dreamer Tatum]

49. Exactly. The calorie count in gas is outrageous.

Has anyone here ever looked at the nutrition facts on jugs of gasoline? It's pretty sobering. Doubly so when you consider that we are dependent on the Middle East for the oil required to refine that junk. Look, a little gas isn't bad. It's when you overdo it that causes the trouble. My mom always used to marvel at how much gas I was drinking. She'd say, "boy, leave some for the car!".

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. Americans, of course, are the only people who go to work.

therefore, the solutions that work elsewhere, won't work here.

[Dreamer Tatum]

59. Way way way WAY too late on that

The average commute is about 20 minutes by car.

That's at least an hour by bike. Plus, people like cars.

Eat less and exercise more. Period.

[All_Corners]

64. Great plan....

Anything to fuck the folks who don't live in the heart of the city just a little bit more...

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. If obesitiy is a big problem, then it needs big solutions.

If it's not, then let's move on to another topic.

Obesity is largely a consequence of personal behavior. To the extent that "we" have any influence over that behavior, it will naturally be something that many people would prefer to not do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. Bathroom scales at the DMV?

Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2014, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

"Please step on this scale. If your W/H ratio is less than 2.5, then you can obtain your motor vehicle license at the next window. If not, you can collect your bike at door #2."

I think that a cultural shift is in everyone's interest.

[tabbycat31]

174. It is not feasible to ride a bike everywhere

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE riding my bike, but I would never do so as a commute unless my workplace offered showers. I'm a sweaty mess after a bike ride, and I would not want to go into work like that.

For some people, they don't look presentable after a bike ride (let alone the smell).

[lumberjack_jeff]

191. It should be feasible to ride a bike between home, work and the market.

If they are not, then municipal planning is the problem.

And in my experience, bike riders tend to "look more presentable" than drivers do.

[tabbycat31]

192. You assume a short commute

But someone who drives 1/2 hour to get to work is not going to ride a bike. If I lived a mile away, sure. But riding a bike long distance would work up a sweat (in my personal experience) and I (personally) need a shower after working up a sweat. I would no way interact professionally without one.

(FTR I've got along fine taking the bus to work when my car was in the shop)

Also when it comes to the supermarket, I can if I absolutely had to (I would have to cross a major highway), but there's only so much you can carry back on a bike. When I go grocery shopping, I buy at least a week's worth of food so I don't have to go every day.

[lumberjack_jeff]

193. 90% of us *should* be able to ride a bike 20 minutes to get to the bus/train.

If not, it's a failure of municipal planning.

[tabbycat31]

210. I'm not sure where you live

But I can tell that it is either a city or near a city. Buses and trains only run in major cities and the surrounding areas. I've lived in urban and rural areas over the last few years, and I can tell you that only 3 of the 6 areas I've worked in had public transportation. In fact some didn't even have taxi service available. And everything in rural areas is so spread out, it's not shocking to see houses that are 1/2 mile from the nearest neighbor. If you didn't have a car, you either had to rely on friends/family or you were SOL.

(There are several mid size and larger cities in the US that could use a better public transportation system, but try getting funding for that in this political climate).

As for bike commuting, again I'm not sure where you live, but I personally know nobody who does that (this could vary greatly by area). To me, bike commuting is an abstract concept I've only heard about online. In this neck of the woods, often the summers are too hot and the winters are too cold and snowy. So that would leave you half the year to commute by bike in good weather. IN the last week or so, we've been under flash flood advisories and the sky has completely opened up, so you have to take that into account. And most employers would not want their employees to come to work looking like a drowned rat.

I'm saying this as a municipal planner's daughter but getting a city to install bike lanes and/or mass transit is not easy. Without mentioning the financial costs of mass transit, I know from the stories my dad has told me that people don't want to view riding a bike as fitness or leisure instead of transportation. There's no way in hell that bike lanes would be approved in the town my dad works for (bedroom community for a MAJOR city-- one of the few in the country where having a car is a burden. The train ride would be about an hour each way). I'll confirm this with my dad next time I talk to him, but I will put money on the fact that the people in his municipality would not approve of bike lanes for commuters.

Another factor to mention is the capacity for bikes on mass transit. One of the cities I used to live in (when my car broke down and I used the bus system) had 1-2 bikes allowed per bus depending on the bus (if the bus had a rack in the front for the bike). I just looked up the transit system that services my dad's town, and they allow a maximum of 4 bikes per rush hour train. So if even one municipality on the train line encouraged people to bike commute, that would fill up the capacity (I do realize you can park your bike at the station too but not everyone will depending on if they need it on the other end).

I rode my bike to school as a kid (4-6 blocks in a suburban area depending on the school I attended) and it was difficult even then. Nobody wanted bike riders on the sidewalk, and my parents were uncomfortable with a 3rd grader riding on the streets.

[lumberjack_jeff]

212. Widespread bike commuting would represent a change.

This change would necessitate other changes, such as buses that can accommodate more than two bikes.

I'm 52, I'm a bit overweight and I live 7 miles from the nearest bus stop. If gas were significantly more expensive and our buses ran on workable schedules, I would make use of it frequently on moderate weather days. That would be 60 minutes of daily cardio which I didn't have to buy from the gym.

I rode my bike all over when I was a kid, living in a similarly rural area to the one I live in now. It was a roughly 10 mile round trip to go hang out with my friend, and we didn't sit in the house watching TV while there.

The things that discourage it today:
1) Modest economic incentive. The hour of biking only saves $10 each day.
2) Schedule conflict. Our buses run a limited schedule, which often meshes poorly with the work day.
3) Poor ridership. The clientele on our buses are mostly those who cannot obtain (or keep) a license.

[jeff47]

34. Step 1: Ignore the morons that try to use shame and other negative tactics

Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2014, 01:48 PM - Edit history (2)

I can assure you from my lifetime as a fat-ass, shame just leads to the overweight person thinking "Fuck it, I'm never going to get there. So I might as well eat this gallon of ice cream and entire large pizza".

Step 2: Have "ideal" weight based in reality.
"Ideal" weight was selected more-or-less based on the opinions of some researchers. They didn't really have the long-term data to back up where they drew the line.

Long-term data is now in. You live longest if you're mildly overweight - roughly 20 lbs over where they drew the line for "ideal".

Step 3: Realize that different people are different.
Height-weight charts are utterly fucking moronic. BMI is just a height-weight chart. Neither are a good basis for calling someone "overweight". They massively oversimplify weight to just how tall you are. Unfortunately, there's a lot more going on - some people are supposed to be larger due to things like muscle and bone mass.

Instead, you need to get a fat percentage on the person, and use that to measure how overweight they are. It's a direct measurement of what you actually want to control - excess body fat.

However, it takes more than a second to do, so people keep using BMI charts instead. BMI chart says I should weigh 140. Fat percentage says I should weigh 200. Which would make me quite obese on the BMI chart.

Step 4: Raise minimum wage.
Cheap food is crappy food. So people struggling to get by eat crappy food. More income means more money, with which then means they can actually buy fresh fruits and vegetables.

ETA Step 5: Stop pretending there is a magic demon chemical that is making people fat.
It's not eating fat that makes people fat. Low-fat foods do not magically make people thin.
It's not eating sugar that makes people fat. Low-carb foods do not magically make people thin.
Eating too many calories makes people fat. It doesn't matter what food makes up those calories.

It's really easy to eat too much low-fat food. It's also really easy to eat too much low-carb food. It's also really easy to eat too much low-protein food. Because it's easy to eat too much low-(whatever) food.

The people pushing solutions keep looking for the single magic food to solve the problem. There isn't one. It's calories in vs. calories burned. But that doesn't stop them from constantly changing the magic food.

[nomorenomore08]

84. Best post of the thread!

[eridani]

134. High blood pressure is more closely correlated with lean body mass that with fat

Particularly in males. Linkage with either is much less in females.

http://www.ijpp.com/IJPP%20archives/2014_58_1_Jan%20-%20Mar/39-44.pdf

[BuelahWitch]

35. Off the top of my head

1. Take away the corn and sugar subsidies and give them to healthy vegetables and fruits. When you are poor it doesn't make sense to blow your small grocery budget on stuff that is expensive and will spoil quickly.

2. Teach people *healthy* ways to handle their stress, especially kids, so they can carry it over into adulthood. Many people eat high carb/sugary foods when they feel stressed.

3. Build low priced grocery stores in cities with food deserts. If all you've got is a Mini Mart full of junk and McDonalds, that's what you're going to eat.

[nomorenomore08]

85. Having lived in West Oakland where there are literally zero grocery stores, #3 is dead on. n/t

[marions ghost]

106. You are the first to mention stress

I read all the way down hoping to see it mentioned as a huge part of the equation.

Combined with:

High sugar/carb content of foods -- hard to avoid!
Lack of exercise is a national problem
Supersizing and excess portion sizes
Alcohol consumption, particularly beer

----------
BUT the fact that so many people are under constant stress should also be considered as a critical factor. We have very little support for how to manage stress in this society.

[BuelahWitch]

149. I think that stress eating is a big part, especially for the working class

You are right, we get little support for managing stress. If you're stressed, it's considered to be a weakness. During high stress periods at my job (twice a year, during peak season) I "feel better" and have a better attitude if I have a stash of Reeses Peanut Butter cups in my desk drawer. I'm going to try and forego them this year, as I have some health issues that they will intensify. But it won't be easy.

[marions ghost]

204. Yep

stress eating is never addressed.

Thanks for helping make the point.

[AngryOldDem]

42. I, for one would like to see more free time so people can be more active.

And, sorry, but the exercise stations at the desk and desktop treadmills DON'T count. Unlike the rest of the world, Americans' work schedules are killers, because people are afraid to take any kind of vacation or downtime out of fear of losing their jobs. People are chained to their work 24/7, either by physically sitting at a desk, or working virtually from home, or being "connected" through BlackBerrys, iPads, beepers, what have you.

When you're constantly working, it makes it that much harder to eat healthy and you're tempted to take the easy way out with junk food, fast food, etc. It also wears you out so that even the thought of any kind of exercise is thought of as a Bataan death march. (Been there, done that NUMEROUS times. In fact, in the winter I really can't work out at all because of an absolutely insane work schedule.)

I have lost weight in the past and it takes every bit of willpower to make such big changes in your lifestyle. Some people can with little angst, while others can't, which means every kind of encouragement must be given to help the latter succeed.

Food is definitely another issue, as many here say.

[CBHagman]

163. So would I.

I was shocked to hear how many Americans with paid vacation don't take all the time they have coming (I thought I was a rarity in that regard...).

We also can't overestimate the degree to which technology in general has made us more sedentary, with disastrous results. I'm not saying we should bring back clothes wringers and the like, just consider how we spend so much time hunched over or slumped in front of a device.

[AngryOldDem]

173. Exactly. Could not agree more.

I have a boatload -- and I mean a boatload -- of comp time built up from my never-ending workdays over the winter. I've been taking a day here and a day there and long weekends around holidays like the 4th and Memorial Day, and damn if I don't feel like a slacker when I do. It doesn't help when you also overhear catty comments from co-workers when other co-workers do the same thing with time that they have rightfully earned.

And yes, back in the day when most labor was agrarian or other manual jobs, people were a lot healthier. That's why I really don't welcome the new devices of desktop treadmills, etc. They are poor, poor replacements for exercise, which should also be just as much for the mind as for the body. You need to be able to leave work totally behind at some point, even if just for a few hours.

We are just so backward as a society in how we view work and its place in our lives. There is no healthy balance anymore.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

215. so very true

[Quantess]

43. Do not feel pressured to eat. That bit of advice doesn't apply to everyone, but

from my experience, there is overwhelming social pressure to EAT, EAT, EAT!!!
"Did you get enough to eat?"
"Look what I baked!"
"Sit down and eat with the rest of us! Look at all this food!! Eat up!"

The social factor cannot be underestimated.

[moondust]

46. Stop overeating?

Self-discipline!

I think Michelle Obama has done about as much as anyone can do to encourage healthy living.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

47. Commercial television is a non-stop parade of ads for fattening food

If it's not an ad for a fast food chain, from Sonic, to McDonald's, to Burger King, to Dairy Queen, to Wendy's, to Lil Caesar's, to Papa John's, to KFC, to Pizza Hut, to Del Taco, to El Pollo Loco, to Arby's, to Taco Bell, to Carl's Jr. ... it's ads for soft drinks, for cookie brands, for ice cream brands, for Sarah Lee, etc., etc., etc. For some of these foods with extremely high fat content (and not the good HDL cholesterol but the bad LDL one) they might as well be advertising getting intravenous injections of raw fat. This is brain-washing on a par with the non-stop ads for cigarette brands I saw on television as a kid in the 50s and 60s. I guess I would be seen as an un-American anti-capitalist or communist though if I suggested some limits or moderation in the number of food ads on TV.

[jeff47]

52. Know which large restaurant has the consistently best salad?

As in you order it, and it's reliably not full of wilted and brown lettuce. And if you get grilled chicken in the salad, it's actual chicken and not 50% gristle.

The answer is McDonald's.

Just because there is crap on the menu doesn't mean there is only crap on the menu.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

62. I'm talking about the cumulative effect of constant food enticement

of hot dogs at Der Wienerschnitzel to the new Memphis BBQ pulled pork sandwich at Burger King. Along the way, there may be some healthy items served at McDonald's and Subway and that's good but it's the constant entreaties to eat, eat, eat from commercial television that I think is part of the problem. I've lived in Europe where most people eat at set hours and where commercial TV and radio don't have so much emphasis on food. Europeans who visit America have remarked to me that Americans seem to eat at all hours of the day and I think it's part of the food brainwashing from the tons of commercial ads.

[IcyPeas]

51. smaller supermarkets

I know that sounds silly. But just an observation. When I was growing up we didn't have these hangar sized supermarkets. We have so much damn food in this country. They recently upgraded a Ralphs supermarket in my neighborhood and re-did it and it's twice the size that it was. It really is like an airplane hangar. When this much food is on offer, people are going to eat it. Go down the chip aisle. The cookie aisle. The cereal aisle. The soda aisle. The liquor aisle. It's ridiculous!

and yes FAST FOOD.

[jeff47]

57. Why would the smaller supermarkets only stock healthy food?

The crap sells better and has a higher profit margin.

and yes FAST FOOD.

A quarter pounder with cheese meal is around 800 calories, assuming diet beverage.
Terrible, right?

Pecan-Crusted Chicken Salad from TGI Fridays. A salad so it must be healthy, right?
It's 1080 calories. Without any dressing.
(This particular salad chosen because its nutrition information is readily available. You'll find a similar salad at many restaurants)

One of the ways we keep failing at fighting obesity is oversimplification.

[HockeyMom]

54. How my skinny (100 lbs.) cravings work

Last Summer I had a craving for ice cream, specifically Dairy Queen soft vanilla cone. I had ice cream once all last Summer. Yesterday, while at the supermarket I suddenly had a craving for Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia; the frozen yogurt, not the ice cream. All they had was the ice cream one and I did not buy it, or anything else. Just mentioned it in passing to my husband, who is obese. Well, I totally forgot about it today when I went shopping at the Mall, and walked around for 4 hours outside in the 90+ degree heat of South Florida. Who in their right mind, would want to EXERCISE (jog????) in that?

My husband said HE went out looking for that frozen yogurt for ME. Very nice of him, but by today I totally forgot about it, and don't feel in the mood for it anymore. It works the same with Big Macs, fries, and soda. About every 6 months or so, I crave that too. If I see a McD's, I will get it, and won't have it again for a very long time. I will not go to a Burger King instead. If I don't see a McD's, that craving goes away.

Think about how differently my husband and I reacted to my longing for ice cream. HE went out searching for it. I forgot about it. All this "junk" food doesn't matter that much to me, or I would eat it far more often. HOWEVER, should it be made more difficult for me too when I also want it very infrequently?

[2naSalit]

61. Get rid of

shitforfood aka fastfood laden with so many synthetic chemicals that one is hard pressed to find any nutrients in whateveritis that one finds wrapped in paper, styrofoam or plastic wrap.

The lack of nutrients available in most prepared "food" is a major element in the epidemic. If real food items were more widely available, the problem would subside immensely in a short time... but some lifestyle changes would also be needed like our national dependency on things advertised as "convenient".

[Arugula Latte]

73. A lot of people don't get that people can be obese AND malnourished.

They think malnourished = starving, but starvation is just one form of malnourishment.

Thousands of of empty calories just don't provide enough nutrients for a body.

[2naSalit]

128. And all the

phony food elements just create problems for the digestive system which eventually result in diseases.

[Brickbat]

82. Chill the fuck out about it and stop calling it an epidemic.

[Spider Jerusalem]

98. It's more like "endemic" at this point

Useful comparisons: obesity rates in 1985...



and 2008:

[Brickbat]

114. What's interesting is that rate has leveled off in the past 10 years -- it's not getting worse.

Worldwide, obesity rates have halted or declined. And the problems associated with obesity haven't played out in larger trends either -- life expectancy continues to rise and overall health continues to improve.

[Spider Jerusalem]

117. Comparison of 2003 and 2010 doesn't look "levelled off":

And in fact, life expectancy among some segments of the population has declined:

Yesterday, the New York Times reported on an alarming new study: researchers have documented that the least educated white Americans are experiencing sharp declines in life expectancy. Between 1990 and 2008, white women without a high school diploma lost a full five years of their lives, while their male counterparts lost three years. Experts say that declines in life expectancy in developed countries are exceedingly rare, and that in the U.S., decreases on this scale “have not been seen in the U.S. since the Spanish influenza epidemic of 1918.” Even during the Great Depression, which wrought economic devastation and severe psychic trauma for millions of Americans, average life expectancy was on the increase.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_09/shocker_stat_of_the_day_life_e040058.php

[Brickbat]

118. There are certainly changes in rates by state in your maps, but CDC information shows that

there has been no significant change in obesity rates in the U.S. population as a whole between 2002 and 2012.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1832542

[JackRiddler]

151. Notice that the "no data" of 1985...

includes all the (predictably) fattest states in 2010.

[Spider Jerusalem]

153. Here's 1994 (first year for data from all 50 states):

[Scout]

196. yes. and STOP using BMI as a measurement that means anything.

it's a ridiculous standard, and does NOT reflect overall health.

[U4ikLefty]

88. Move your ass (excercise) for 1 hour/day & good diet.

If you are "heavy" after all that work, it was meant to be...no apologies. Biology will dictate your body-type...especially as you get older.

I had a buddy whom I we used to call "Brick" (because he could shoot the 18 footer on a dime) on the B-Ball courts in the 90's...he was heavy, but could run the full court for HOURS. He was "fat" but in shape...don't think big boys (or girls) can't deliver.

Keep to healthy living & let the consequences bear out...we all are different.

[HockeyMom]

102. Us Skinnies can too

I can lift myself up on my kitchen counter tops and climb an 8 foot ladder at 65 years old. I have done this my entire life, and I still can, and am not going to have a heart attack doing it.

[U4ikLefty]

105. That's what I'm talking about!!!

I hope I can kick ass at 65...kudos!!!

[llmart]

138. Yep, me too.

I'm 65, never been overweight in my life. I rarely, rarely eat out. Americans eat out all the time compared to when I was growing up. Eating out was reserved for special occasions. Also, my family was large so my parents couldn't take us out to eat.

I clean my own gutters on an 8-foot ladder too. I'm always shocked at the number of my neighbors who feel the need to comment when I'm up on the ladder "Oooohhh, you could fall and hurt yourself." Hell, these same people are overweight and don't get that they are hurting themselves by being fat! I ride my bike 15 miles when I do ride. I walk every single day. I take no medications and never have.

I think an awful lot of the obesity is due to not only stress as was noted upthread, but boredom. We have all the bells and whistles nowadays and so do the children, but having everything with nothing to look forward to leads to boredom. When I was growing up, you ate at regular mealtimes and there was no constant snacking and drinking 24/7. I have grown nieces whose little children are allowed to eat whatever they want whenever they want.

[SoCalDem]

113. Eliminate lobbying to start with

and regulate what goes INTO packaged/processed foods. If they become too expensive to produce, we will see less of them.

People USED to not have "foods" we now have littering every aisle and end cap of every supermarket...and we all did just fine.

It only takes a few minutes longer to prepare real food, than it does to nuke a chemical stew.

[Drew Richards]

125. Ban HFC...

[eridani]

129. Designing cities to make biking and walking less dangerous.

In the Netherlands, bike lanes have their own traffic signals. Also reducing work week and simultaneously raising wages.

[Katashi_itto]

131. Use Bulldozers from Soylent Green to chase people.

Great exercise.

[vanlassie]

137. Breastfeeding reduces obesity. A newborn's tummy can hold 1.5 teaspoons at birth.

On days 7-10 it can hold 1.5 -2 ounces. Babies are overfed from day one. It is no surprise that they end up overweight.


Breastfeeding Protects Against Obesity

"Breastfeeding has long been recognized as a proven disease-prevention strategy. More recently, breastfeeding has been found to play a foundational role in prevent- ing childhood overweight and the development of later obesity. A recent analysis, which included 61 studies and nearly 300,000 participants, showed that breastfeeding consistently reduced risks for overweight and obesity.1 The greatest protection is seen when breastfeeding is exclusive (no formula or solid foods) and continues for more than three months.2,3 "

http://www.calwic.org/storage/WIC_WORKS_Breastfeeding_Can_Reduce_Obesity.pdf

[laundry_queen]

142. +1

I breastfed my 4 kids until they self weaned. They have a much healthier eating pattern than I do. I was bottlefed (soy formula, which I believe had something to do with my PCOS although I cannot prove it - I cannot find any studies save for one Chinese study that showed a link between soy formula and irregular periods) and my mom admits to trying to get me to take more until the bottle was gone. She also talks about me constantly projectile vomiting up everything I ate. Likely, she was feeding me too much. I was the only baby bottle fed on both sides of the family in several generations - and I'm the only obese one in the family and I don't think that's a coincidence.

I also think that needs to be extended to how parents teach their children to view food. I could tell many stories about how my parents demonized certain foods, shamed us for eating others, had rules that taught us to ignore our full/hungry signals and so on. I don't think how my parents taught us to view food is an anomaly in our society.

With my kids, we don't demonize any foods. I don't force them to finish meals or comment on how little they ate or shame them for the left overs. If they are hungry between meals, they get healthy snacks with no judgment about if they should be hungry or not. I don't use junk food as a reward. I think my kids have a much healthier relationship with food than I have. They certainly are good at being able to tell if they are full or not. I'm not as capable with that as they are.

[vanlassie]

145. Laundry-queen, I would not be surprised if there turns out to be a link between

soy formula and numerous life long problems. Soy formula is only allowed by prescription in some countries. It's quite worrisome.

And yes, the ability to observe hunger AND fullness cues is lost when feeding is not self directed. It is an elephant in the room when bottle feeding is followed. It is practically impossible for parents to remain focused enough to be able to know if their baby is full. Especially when they prop the bottle.

[laundry_queen]

159. I didn't know that

about only being allowed by prescription. Interesting. I was switched to soy because of colic and it was assumed it was the milk based formula causing it. At least my mom did consult the pediatrician but that was eons ago, LOL.

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

154. I think it's a definite connection with soy

I also have PCOS and one of the first things doctors tell me is to avoid soy. I never had soy milk as a baby though, and my weight went up dramatically with no changes in habits when I went through puberty at 11 and it's all because of PCOS. I would love to be able to just eat right and exercise to lose weight, but it's nearly impossible to see any results. Very depressing.

[laundry_queen]

158. I totally get it.

It was the same with me - I began to really struggle with my weight in my early teens not long after puberty. I wasn't diagnosed with PCOS until I was 26 years old and only after already having 2 babies and bringing it to my doctor's attention when my period stayed very irregular after baby #2 (I was on the BC pill before baby #1 and after her, so this was my first experience with 'natural' cycles) and I couldn't lose weight. He took one look at me and said I was a 'classic case' of PCOS with the exception of not being infertile (though it did take a year of trying each to get babies #1 and #2 and I was young!)

But yeah, I've tried it all and I lived with my extremely thin mom as an adult (with my kids too, lol) and ate what she ate, and exercised when she did (Actually more because I walked my kids to and from school) and I couldn't lose the weight. She managed to lose 5 lbs though. So aggravating!

[Silent3]

147. Especially when done at Olive Garden. With a pit bull.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[vanlassie]

148. I understand. Somebody had to do it...

[CBHagman]

140. 1. Walkable cities/towns (sidewalks, pedestrian zones).

2. More bike routes.
3. More bike-sharing options in cities.
4. Consistent PE throughout education -- pre-school through college. This doesn't have to be dreary (We can vary the activities), just a habit.
5. Enlist various figures (Colbert, Stewart, many others) to do public service announcements (Hey, the anti-smoking ones worked on me!).
6. On edit: Get corporations involved and make it a life-or-death matter. We've got to look at what we're going as a society, and we can't afford even higher rates of diabetes and heart disease. We're going to have to look at quality of life, and we're going to have to encourage mass change in society. Again, the exercise habit must be obtained, can't be taken for granted. We need to look at our workdays as well as our city designs.

[JackRiddler]

150. Stop subsidizing crap food.

Start subsidizing good food.

Subsidies are not just on the production side. The government and schools are the biggest single buyers of food. My biggest first step would be for all schools to provide two squares a day to all students, without means testing or any other requirement. Insofar as possible: non-sugary (the key!), minimally processed, locally sourced, in season, organic (minimal use of pesticides and fertilizers, no antibiotics), sustainable, plant-based (fruits and vegetables, not grains), so as to develop these forms of agriculture and food production.

A national dietary standard implemented through good food at all public schools seems a lot worthier to pursue as a federal policy than the imposition of standardized testing and common core policies. It would cost a tiny fraction of the current warmaking budget.

Every school should have its garden space!

Same with physical education, sports, arts, music, martial arts, all forms of moving activity. These should be the national standards for what schools provide, instead of teacher ratings!

Cut the Pentagon in half and put half of the savings into such programs for the schools.

BIKE LANES EVERYWHERE. More parks. Pedestrian zones. Mass transit. Start putting plexiglass cover over sidewalks and bike lanes, to overcome some of the weather obstacles. Make it FUN not to be in a car, at least in densely populated areas.

[Zambero]

155. Boycott all-you-can-eat buffets

Notably the ones that feature a massive selection of high fat and fried foods, deserts laced with refined sugar, and empty carbs. If the only people who dined there were the 5 platers with obvious weight issues, these establishments would quickly go broke. This wouldn't solve the problem in its entirety, but the enablers-for-profit would no longer be able to satisfy the the insatiable demands of junk food addicts who are unwittingly eating themselves to death.

[CBHagman]

164. Instill habits early on, where possible.

This means enlisting the schools, houses of worship, community centers.

Create habits later, if necessary, at colleges and universities, workplaces and retirement homes.

One of the problems we have in the United States has been the media emphasis on special diets and regimens, rather than on looking at the big picture and instilling cradle-to-grave habits of exercise and good eating, as well as work-life balance.

[McCamy Taylor]

169. Treat the underlying sleep disorder. I mean this.

Studies have shown that sleep deprivation increases the appetite. Sound studies. I linked them over at Kos in a recent journal if you want to look them up. It's a survival thing. If you are under stress, you binge eat in case your next meal will be a long time away. But with sleep disorders, you are under "stress" every day--and the refrigerator is full.

This is not a joke. One out of ten of us has the sleep apnea gene. That plus everyone else who misses sleep for work or who has another sleep disorder is at risk for obesity because of this stupid survival mechanism. And we can't change our genes---but we can improve our sleep.

[Stuart G]

171. Get out the one important fact: We (USA) are addicted to ...salt, sugar and fat..and combos of them

read this: "Salt, Sugar, and Fat, How the Food Giants Hooked Us" by Michael Moss

http://michaelmossbooks.com/books/salt-sugar-fat/

[redqueen]

175. This thread reminded me of this comic

?w=590

[The empressof all]

177. Seriously....

I am in complete agreement

With everything that is going on in the world right now it is quite hysterical that people continually choose to be distracted by this eternal question....."What about the fat people?"

Lets talk global warming, factory farming, gmo's, false advertising, wars in progress, wars a coming, elections, selections , hegemony and misogony.....

But for god's sake....Leave the fat people alone already.....

[redqueen]

187. But there are fat people who aren't ashamed of themselves for being fat!

This will not do!

[The empressof all]

189. The answer is quite easy....

They need to die.....A long slow lingering death that will torture them for all their years.....

Death by Twinkie... For all the fat people!



In all serious though I do know quite a few very healthy eating fat people.... Its a frustration for them because many of them would rather be a bit more slender but it's the card you are dealt many times..

I also knew two thin athletic men who keeled over in the forties....Go figure!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

176. cut out added sugar, encourage smaller portions

Encourage high protein lower carb. With plenty of exercise veg anf fruit.

[lovemydog]

178. Sports in schools for all

[JDPriestly]

179. Eat less sugar and exercise more.

More vegetables, less meat, fewer prepared foods.

No fast food, greasy spoon restaurants. Cut out alcohol. That applies especially to beer. No soft drinks either.

Walk, don't drive. People who love people make sure everyone walks a half an hour a day. That's just about right to the nearest bus stop if you live in a medium-sized city, just about right to the grocery if you live in a small town. Buy a cart and shop on foot.

Do floor exercises and other calisthenics.

Take walks with friends instead of going to restaurants.

Cook at home.

Write down everyting you eat and count calories. We all eat more calories than we admit to ourselves. Watch cheese and processed meats. They can be a problem.

I like to keep my weight right because it makes me feel better. I think that my knees do better if I am not overweight.

But it is hard.

[Puzzledtraveller]

209. I cut out sodas, began running a cpl miles a week

reduced carbs dramatically, breads and such and dropped 40lbs in a about 7 weeks. That was in 2006, I have so far been able to maintain a healthy weight.

[JDPriestly]

211. Wonderful!

Great job. It can be done.

[mercuryblues]

182. wha ever

you do, don't say the Obamas suggested it.

People are so freaking stupid that if Michelle Obama said dog shit is not safe to eat, they would send dog shit in their kids lunch bag. To show her that she can't tell them what is and isn't appropriate to feed their kid.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

183. Unconditional basic income.

Make fast food places an expensive rarity, and free people from the perpetual cycle of precarious work that can only afford shitty massed produced food. Those that want to work at fast food, and similar places still can. Others would be free to cook healthy meals and provide care for their elderly and their children, as well as engage in active lifestyles. Communities of like-minded, newly liberated people can collectively farm. Still, others can further their education in areas that contribute to healthy societies instead of being compelled to study in fields that are only market friendly.

[MineralMan]

184. We can look to our own weight,

and be examples. We can educate those who ask how we manage our own weight. Beyond that, we can do almost nothing. Those who are calling for bans on this and restrictions on that have no power to do that, and probably no power to control others' s lives in any case.

We can deal with our own issues and educate. That is the limit of what we can do. That is, I maintain, all we should do. Each person has agency over his or her own choices. Those who seek to control others' choices should be concerned about others controlling their choices. What we do to others can be done to us.

[Silent3]

221. +1 n/t

[Live and Learn]

188. Don't worry, climate change is likely to solve the problem

by lessening the food supply and increasing cost. Then we can worry about how to keep from starving instead.

[JEFF9K]

190. How did this post ...

... get past the jurors? They censor every thread or comment mentioning w**ght Do they not know the meaning of obesity?

[Harmony Blue]

195. It is an open ended discussion and my question is open ended indeed

there are downsides however to this approach, but the conversation has been civil for the most part, so I have no complaints.

[cyberswede]

201. Dude...you need to get over that post.

It wasn't even hidden.

And, regarding your post that WAS hidden, there's a difference between "mentioning weight" and referring to overweight people as "lardbutts."

[JEFF9K]

205. The post about New Year's Resolutions was made inoperable.

It was either SHUT DOWN or LOCKED or HIDDEN or VANISHED or WHATEVER soon after I posted it. That fact that it can NOW be called back up isn't relevant, except maybe to show that their system is somehow screwed up.

It took at least a couple hours to write. It's not like I spent five minutes posting a link to someone else's work.

And lots of my original stuff has been illegitimately censored on this site, including a video that took several hundred hours to put together, including original music and lyrics.

If the goal at this "UNDERGROUND" site is to win elections for Democrats, their rules don't make much sense.

One of the most effective fighters for the Democratic cause is Al Franken, who's book RUSH LIMBAUGH IS A BIG *** IDIOT topped the best seller list for many weeks. In the book he made constant use of words like lard**** and lard*** and dozens of other words in referencing Rush Limbaugh's w**ght.

I wonder if they even allow mention of Franken's book at this "UNDERGROUND" site.

[madville]

194. Illegal immigration plays a factor

40 years ago poor whites and blacks did most of the manual labor in this country, farming, construction, etc. Here it seems like it's 90% non-native Hispanic now and the poor whites and blacks are sitting around unemployed and on whatever benefits they can get.

Lack of participating in manual labor jobs plays a large role. It's not just the demographics either. Technology and automation have eliminated many if not most of the manufacturing jobs that used to require heavy labor and burn more calories.

[dilby]

198. I am failing to see the epidemic.

I see normal people every day, where in America do you see a bulk of people who are 400-600 lbs? For me if people are in that 400-600 lbs area they are obese and those people are very far and few between. However I see people who regularly make comments about perfectly healthy looking women and say they are obese. Sorry but I like curvy girls and I don't want to live if all the women in the US start looking like Kate Moss stick figures.

[CBHagman]

207. This is not about the curvy ladies but societal trends towards unhealthy living.

I know what you mean about rude comments about perfectly normal people. What we're talking about in this thread is a troubling national trend towards obesity in this country and all the attendant problems, including the phenomenon of children (!) developing type 2 diabetes.

[cyberswede]

216. +1

Exactly.

[redqueen]

217. The problem is the way the word "obese" is used. And the focus on weight as opposed to health

Just as people tuned anti-drug zealots out, they are now tuning out the anti-fat zealots.

I was considered clinically "obese" when I was at my peak level of physical fitness. Many fat people are actually not unhealthy and many thin people are. Focusing on fat, as opposed to health, is a mistake. Yes, being very overweight is likely to cause health problems - but focusing on fat instead of good health habits makes many people who are fed up with the superficial nonsense tune out the message.

[dilby]

219. Bingo!

I agree with you completely.

[lumberjack_jeff]

213. 400 lbs is the lower boundary of "obese"?

Sure, there's no problem if we just scale up all the yardsticks of health.

At 5-11 and 225, I am about 40 pounds above the average man's weight, which itself is up 14 lbs since 1990.

I don't think that obesity is measured on a curve. 250# is too heavy despite the fact that it's common.

[dilby]

218. My problem is I am 6'1" 220 and on the BMI Charts I am labeled as Obese.

I ride my bike 50 miles a week, hit the gym 3 times a week and my doctor says I am in exceptional health for my age. Now I could afford to lose 20-25 lbs but it would be completely impossible for me to hit the 160 lbs that they have listed as what I should be on the BMI chart unless I started amputating appendages.

Most people I see are like me and have some extra weight they could afford to lose but it's probably not a major issue when it comes to overall health. I think weight is a poor way to determine health and it's a lot easier to check overall health through a doctor. So if you see someone like me and you say that guy is 50 lbs over the BMI Chart so he is unhealthy and needs to be told he is fat, maybe you should talk to my doctor who would tell you that I am perfectly fine.

[Silent3]

220. Not that BMI is any more than a very rough guide anyway, but 189, not 160...

...is all you'd have to get your weight down to to be in the "normal" range, albeit at the top of the normal range.

The scale looks crazier at the lower end. You could get down to 139 lbs. before you'd be considered underweight. I'm close to your height - 6' even -- and the one time my weight got as low as 165 I began to look almost skeletal. For my height that's supposedly about 5 lbs. over the middle of the normal range.

I'm pretty sure I'd either die of starvation, or be blown away by the next strong wind, before I reached the 137 lbs. that's supposedly still within the normal range for me.

I'm a 178 now, just a few pounds under the top of the normal range, and some people think I'm too skinny. I can't find jeans with my waist size without settling for an inseam that's a bit shorter than I'd like.

[pipi_k]

199. I dunno, maybe I'm oversimplifying here...

but it would seem to me that one way to deal with it is to go back and take a look at how we were living before obesity became as prevalent as it is now.

I remember being in school where there were maybe two obese kids in the entire school. I graduated HS in 1970, so let's go back to the mid 60s and before.

What were we eating? What were we doing during the day? How were we spending our free time?


Do all that stuff now, and see if things change.

Couldn't hurt.

[Ilsa]

202. More "real" food, less processing and HFCS.

Cheaper fruits and vegetables. More medically-guided dieting.

[Puzzledtraveller]

208. Soylent Green

solves numerous dilemmas.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

214. living in cities that use public transportation instead of cars. cheap real food instead of cheap

processed food. developing a conversation around health instead of focusing on fat only.

[KurtNYC]

222. We can continue the progress which is under way...

Soda sales have declined every year for the past 8 years and the trend is accelerating:
http://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/soft-drink-sales-decline-accelerates/292409/

School lunches are eliminating unhealthier foods:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlife/food/diet-nutrition/2011-01-12-schoollunch13_ST_N.htm

And we are seeing the results:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/health/childhood-obesity-drops-in-new-york-and-philadelphia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0