"There is no wiggle room. I am not running for President."

[brooklynite]

Elizabeth Warren on Thursday. (From Today's Boston Globe&quot

[PowerToThePeople]

1. "am"

am
am/

1st person singular present of be.

Tomorrow is not now.

[LiberalElite]

6. very different from LBJ declaring he wouldn't run for a second term -

-snip-
Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party...."
-snip-

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. So to you....she is a liar unless she speaks THOSE exact words.....because YOU demand it!

[LiberalElite]

17. Not at all -

just commenting on the verb tense. I'm not "demanding" a damn thing. Relax.

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. apparently so.....

because she didn't say those exact words then obviously she is just sandbagging us all huh?



Isn't that how you see her? Because I don't....that is why I like her...

[NM_Birder]

60. bit of a tantrum over reaction don't you think ?

nobody DEMANDED IT !, nobody is calling anyone a LIAR !

Seemed like pretty benign playfulness, hoping that maybe there is still a chance,...even if it's just wishful thinking she might change her mind.

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. Desperate....adjective...

present tense...

[PowerToThePeople]

11. you sound it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. I'm not....I am the one that is supporting Elizabeth Warrens wishes...

[PowerToThePeople]

13. I bow to your superb telepathic powers. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. I don't need telepathy YOU are using it by saying she doesn't really mean what she says....

I am taking HER word for it!

Now about your telepathic powers.....they need a tune up!

[Orsino]

14. Our need for a president like Warren is the only significant desperation.

I had no hope of her running this time around. Maybe next time, if there's still an America.

[VanillaRhapsody]

20. Of course you mean if a Republican wins right?

[PowerToThePeople]

22. If a fascist wins.

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. meaning a Republican right?

looks at the words on the glass door door out front ...."yep...."Democratic" Underground all right"....

[PowerToThePeople]

25. Tis but thy name that is your enemy

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

Myself, fascism is my enemy, regardless of what party affiliation it comes from.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. So are you.....or are you not a Loyal Democrat?

Are you committed to vote for whomever wins "our" primary?

[PowerToThePeople]

62. Loyalty oath?

let me point you to this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10823416

And, I have voted straight D in all elections so far.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. way to skirt the question....

dodge faster!

[JackRiddler]

78. Voted to "LEAVE IT ALONE."

"We all hate illogical, bullying, annoying, and plain stupid posts, like this one basically equating Democratic politics with McCarthyite tactics. But it's not a rules violation."



"The alerter has a good point and I don't think this alert was frivolous; however, given the context of the thread, which is about potential Dem candidates, I can see how discussion of past voting preferences, etc. can come into play. So because of the context of the discussion, I didn't take the comments about party loyalty to be over the top."

[PowerToThePeople]

80. Someone alerted on me?

I was not the one requesting the loyalty oath.

Weird.

edit- oh, I see. we have reached that deep in the subthread. I didn't alert on their McCarthyesque loyalty oath request, but I can see how someone would want to. Good info.

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. So I take that as a no.....

moving on....

[PowerToThePeople]

82. I owe you absolutely nothing

Which is exactly what you will get.

[VanillaRhapsody]

83. figures....

I wasn't expecting anything either....

[PowerToThePeople]

85. A couple of blue links

should clear things up for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024469471

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024420135

[VanillaRhapsody]

96. sure....whatever you say...

[oldhippie]

136. Show me your party papers, Citizen .....

... or else. (Kinda what it sounds like to me.)

[VanillaRhapsody]

137. no just show me whether you are s Democrat or

An Independent.....its quite simple really....no trees needlessly should die...

[oldhippie]

139. Uh, no ....

I am not required to show you anything.

[VanillaRhapsody]

140. never asked you to show me anything

Just to tell WE Democrats you are one of us or not. Or just a feckless Independent or other. We Democrats vote in a primary and elect our candidates...if you cannot commit to accepting our selection......then you are not one of us really. It is quite simple...if you are truly a Demorat.

[oldhippie]

141. You didn't?

137. no just show me whether you are s Democrat or

Methinks you did.

[VanillaRhapsody]

143. thats not a thing....

Are you arguing semantics? OR are you a Democrat?

[oldhippie]

144. never mind ....

This isn't going anywhere. Tie it up.

[Orsino]

112. Electing a Republican would drive us over the cliff sooner, sure.

I am all for electing any ol' Democrat to stave off the nigh-inevitable collapse, but if this is a purity test I may not pass.

[VanillaRhapsody]

114. are you or are you not committed to voting for whomever WE decide is OUR Primary Candidate?

It's quite a simple question really....for a Democrat.

[Orsino]

115. I think that's what I just posted.

Very simple, as you said.

I guess this was a purity test.

[treestar]

120. Our need for a liberal Congress

Geez why put so much on the Presidency? They can't do anything if Congress stays Republican or Third Way or whatever other insults you have. GOTV in midterms and quit obsessing that the right President can do it all. The right understands you need more than just the presidency.

[krawhitham]

63. +1

[NanceGreggs]

79. I have seen some outstanding ...

... straw-grasping in my day - and this is straw-grasping at its very finest.

[cheapdate]

102. That's great!

It depends on what your definition of "is" is. Exactly.

[whatthehey]

121. So....

"I am getting married" can only be properly said during the service? "I'm not having any kids" is only a statement that a person is not, this minute, delivering a child? "I like it here, I'm not emigrating" only means the speaker is not currently on a one way flight?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. Not on Thursday, she wasn't.

[rock]

3. Not within the time frame of that statement

I.e. (say) a 5 second window.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Yes. It's kinda like what a famous philosopher once said (forget who, lol): "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

[rock]

90. That was exactly his point

He didn't say there hadn't been a relationship; he said there isn't one. You see what he got for being exquisitely exact!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

94. Yup yup, and Elizabeth is bein similarly exquisitely exact - why people can't see that I have no idea.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Too damn bad. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

5. She's got y'all pretty nervous

It would mean the end of the Third Way - Wall Street feast on the 99%.

[Scuba]

8. Bingo!

[randome]

51. Sorry, most of us don't do 'nervous'.

And we don't cackle with strawmen in an attempt to sow discord, either.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[MannyGoldstein]

59. .

[LordGlenconner]

134. +1

[L0oniX]

61. I don't consider the Third Way to be Democratic.

[LuvNewcastle]

116. Me either. Not in the least.

[JackRiddler]

100. So it seems. Annoyed, too.

Most of all, that people want her passionately for political reasons, because they want real change, and are not supporting her as a team thing or as an American Idol thing or as a money thing, like with most of these politician critters.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. told Y'all!

the woman doesn't lie.....that is what I love about her!

[whatchamacallit]

15. I'll be relieved when Hillary says the same. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you...

but haters gotta hate....even the "Democratic" ones..

[whatchamacallit]

117. I still want a democrat

just not that democrat. What, is my attitude too democratic for you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

122. Why? She's the Democrat that CAN win!.....Every poll shows it over and over and over again

I want to WIN!

Just having your moral convictions is not enough....you gotta WIN! And right now...SHE is the winner...she's our Micheal Jordan at the moment. But no....lets keep Micheal Jordan on the bench....that makes perfect sense!

And she seems to be good enough for Elizabeth Warren to support her candidacy....who says she is herself not running.....Do you think you are more astute politically than Elizabeth Warren? I don't think I am....so I think I will take Elizabeth Warren's word for it that Hillary Clinton is Left enough....so should you! Unless of course Elizabeth Warren's opinion is not good enough for ya!

[whatchamacallit]

123. Absurd. As a freethinking adult in a democracy, Elizabeth Warren's opinion is immaterial

If her opinion is more important or valid than mine, she should just vote for me. Also, convictions are paramount, electing someone without them is not winning.

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. Right.....you keep telling yourself that...

nobody said "validity"...did they?

How about Rachel Maddow? Do you consider yourself HER political equal too? Oh that's right....you think that is about "validity"...

[whatchamacallit]

129. Wtf? It sounds like you're saying we should ignore our own assessments

and let "political experts" tell us how to vote. I don't think you understand this privilege and responsibility called voting.

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. i am saying

Some people ARE better experts....psrticularly when its thier career. I don't take medical advice from non-experts....do you? I will therefore take cues from an expert....Elizabeth Warren and DR. Rachel Maddow. By the way....any idiot can cast a vote......just doing so doesnt make them an expert does it?

[whatchamacallit]

133. Wow... bizarre appeal to authority

Let me help you out, their presumed expertise in politics or in covering politics does not make them right about all things. Also, and this is a big one, their personal desires, interests, and values may not be the same as mine. Their opinions are likely to be influenced by what THEY believe to be important, just like mine. I can factor-in their opinions regarding the political process, but my vote will always go first to the candidate who best reflects MY values and principles, not automatically to the most "electable" candidate. If you can't understand this, we have nothing more to discuss.

[VanillaRhapsody]

135. uh what???

Talk about bizarre.....you love Elizsbeth Warren why? Because you "trust" her.....pretty simple concept and not st all related to fealty to authority.. .but then you know that. Or maybe beause you dont want to feel like you trust anyone else's opinion you do self surgery?

[whatchamacallit]

138. Nope wrong again

Trust has nothing to do with it. I like EW because I agree with some of her positions. Anyone who believes her tepid and politically calculated endorsement to be a canonizing of HRC, is a fool. The notion that agreeing with someone on some things means you agree on all, is just plain nuts. Sorry, I don't trust ANYONE enough to relinquish my choice.

[DrDan]

16. lost words here

those 11 words will be twisted in all ways to hold on to the delusion

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. I guess she would have to write them in blood for some to believe them!

a blood oath is the only real evidence worthy!

[DrDan]

34. I am sure some would still question the blood-type chosen

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. OMG you are sooo right!

[JoePhilly]

142. They need a new Messiah.

The old new Messiah turned out to not be the real new Messiah.

Obama was the old new Messiah ... Warren is the new new Messiah.

I remember the right wing mocking Obama supporters, claiming those supporters saw him as the Messiah. I thought this line of attack was silly.

But I now think that there were some on the left who did see Obama that way. And the right picked up on that way back when.

And then the instant it turned out that Obama wasn't actually the liberal Messiah, they turned on him as a false profit.

"I thought he was a real liberal, but he's just a 3rd wayer!!" On and on and on.

And so they are off in search of the new Messiah. And Warren appears to be it, at least for now.

So for some folks to blaspheme and claim she won't run because she said what she said ... that's heresy.

[FrodosPet]

145. Will she be forgiven for supporting Israel's right to self defense?

Or is she about to take a trip under the bus for the sin of not hating Israel?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025258116

[JoePhilly]

146. Early on, any non-pure position will ...

... be rationalized and be acceptable.

Were she to become President, it wouldn't take long for her to make a compromise, and the screaming to start.

[tridim]

27. Do "The..." "Wiggle"! "I am" "running for President"!

Easy.

[DrDan]

36. "not" - that's the one that seems to be ignored

[NightWatcher]

26. Maybe her fingers were crossed behind her back

[Thinkingabout]

28. What has so many got against Elizabeth Warren being Senator?

[Jamaal510]

64. Good question. eom

[Hekate]

72. You have to wonder who would fill her vacant Senate seat? A Repub? nt

[loyalsister]

105. No kidding!

With a stronger Democratic congress, her leadership could actually help move the country further left. She's one of the best we have seen for a very long time. We will be much better off if she stays in the Senate rather risking losing her seat and the presidency. Her voice is way more effective in the Senate, anyway.

[kentuck]

29. But she will take the VP if offered?

She probably knows she is not ready for the top job? But, who is?

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. You are still asking that question?

seriously????


the one that can kick Republican ass!

[leftyohiolib]

30. there's always room for the wiggles

[Phlem]

57. OMG

It's been 6 years since I've watched them with my daughter, I can't believe they're still around.

[leftyohiolib]

95. me too, i used to watch them with mine. we used to silly dance with the songs

sometimes we'd get her mom to do it too. now if it doesnt come across her iphone she aint interested

[SidDithers]

31. But those are only her words...

Obviously, in her mind, she is thinking the complete opposite.

Sid

[Renew Deal]

32. Of course she's not. A poll came out the same day giving her only 7%

And in third place. For all the hype, there's not a whole lot of support there.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. because some on Democratic Underground do not realize they ARE a minority....they are not the base

that they think that they are....they are about as influential as the Teabaggers are in their party...

[brooklynite]

70. Actually far less influential than the Tea Party...

...who also spend lots of time online, but also go out in the real world and work to elect (and defeat) political candidates. For all the posts about nominating Warren or Sanders, I haven't seen a sign of any active organizing for either.

[Armstead]

76. I wish the "minority" here were as influential as the Tea Party

As for who the "base" is, I' say it is the Corporate Elite and Wall St.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. So tell us how you really feel about your fellow "Democrats"

please continue....

[oldandhappy]

33. funny, brooklynite

When I saw your post headline, I clicked expecting you meant yourself and it would be a funny quip about running for president. Maybe next time!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Which provides an excellent reason for Bernie to run.

[Savannahmann]

37. Allow me to say....

And let us not forget.

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. Allow me to say....Bernie has even LESS of a chance than EW does...

[Savannahmann]

69. So again we are doomed to the lesser of who cares.

We sure are setting that bar high.

[hrmjustin]

38. I support Hiloary but I think the senator woukd make a great candidate.

She can change her mind and run. Right now she sees Hillary's numbers and is saying why bother.

Give her some time.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. OH you just think that its because of Hillary's polling numbers she is saying this?

not because she (like you say you do) supports Hillary Clinton?

[hrmjustin]

52. I think she doesn't want to do it now and I think that can change.

And for the record I voted for Hillary 5 times already and hope to do so again.

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. I think she is a truth teller...She is NOT running AND she has already supported

Hillary Clinton's run....just like YOU have!

She won't run against her...and here is another reason why...

[hrmjustin]

54. We shall see but your probably right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. A picture is worth a 1000 words...

[hrmjustin]

56. I tend to think Hillary can win the general by 10%.

[VanillaRhapsody]

109. and that is why we should ALL support her candidacy...

those of us that are Democrats anyways...

[hrmjustin]

110. And the fact she would make a great president!

[VanillaRhapsody]

111. that went without saying!

[lunasun]

104. Wow the repugs on top Huckster and Paul scary!!

OK any of them would be a nightmare but those two esp. IMO

[BainsBane]

39. We could spare ourselves the agony of trying to read the tea leaves

by focusing on the actual election at hand, the 2014 midterms and state elections, and worry about 2016 when the time comes. How about it folks?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

41. Hear, hear! I'm glad you said it because it's the goddamned truth. +1,000,000 nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. we could also spare ourselves...IF we would stop discounting what the woman herself says!

how about that?

[winter is coming]

66. Or you could stop worrying so much about the folks you characterize as an insignificant minority.

Because all the energy spent on repeating that Warren's not running or Sanders isn't a Democrat or that neither of them is electable is a huge honkin' hint that we're not talking about an insignificant number of people.

[LuvNewcastle]

118. That's what I don't understand.

For such an insignificant minority, there are some here who are very determined to get us to see things their way. If we're so insignificant, what difference does it make what we think? Why not just do their thing and let us do ours?

"You aren't being loyal to the Party. Besides, you're insignificant. So follow us." Okay, I bow to that logic.

[brooklynite]

128. Can you promise us...

...that if we leave you alone to "do your thing" and Warren decides not run (as some of us have been suggesting for some time) you won't complain that THEY (insert evil political entity here) wouldn't "let" her run?

[TDale313]

130. Ya got that right.

There are some people here determined to bully anyone who even thinks they may want someone besides the establishment candidate into submission. I'll support whoever gets the Democratic nomination, but I refuse to accept that Hillary is inevitable, or that I must just roll over and accept that an actual liberal is doomed and I should feel foolish for even wanting one.

[Phlem]

58. Just voted so now I can focus on 2016.

Thanks Though.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

40. Nope, she sure wasn't running when she said that. No room to wiggle at all when you're not

doing what it is you're supposed to be wiggling about.

[Cali_Democrat]

42. Funny how some of Warren's biggest supporters...

....are essentially calling her a liar and a typical hack politician who doesn't really mean what she says.

[JackRiddler]

101. Or trying to get her to change her mind.

What's it to you?

[MineralMan]

43. Nobody's running for President right now.

Some people are testing the waters to see if a run makes any sense for them, of course. No announcements of a run will be made until after November 2014. Hillary won't announce, and neither will any other Democrat.

Instead, you'll see people who are even slightly considering a run going around talking to people, seeing what "independent" committees are actually doing in gaining support, and looking at polls. But nobody is running yet.

Once Election Day in November is over, though, you'll start seeing people actively taking another sort of position and putting themselves forward. Not now, though. Like we all should be doing, they're focusing on November of 2014. I suggest we all do the same and:

GOTV 2014 and Beyond!

[TheKentuckian]

67. Who cares? Build a movement and someone will fill the space be it Warren or someone else.

It doesn't matter if Warren is the placeholder/shorthand for the movement or the actual candidate, only that the movement be fostered.

[Eleanors38]

124. And THIS ^^^ sums it up.

[brooklynite]

127. So, you want people to do actual WORK...

...rather than just post a message on a political blog.

[TheKentuckian]

131. Work is implied just like posting "2014!"implies work beyond typing those characters on a board.

[CK_John]

68. Not understanding the process is our biggest problem. You do know that once

a declaration is made all kinds of rules and legal obligation come into play.

[Hekate]

71. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Some here must have absolutely loved that construction. Others are just extremely irony-impaired.

Hekate
*No, I have not yet filled in my 2016 ballot.
**I pity Senator Warren from the bottom of my heart if she does take the bait, runs, and wins. The fantasy-castles being built for her at DU (not BY her, FOR her) will crash in the first month of her putative presidency, and then it will get very very ugly at DU.

[Historic NY]

73. “There is no wiggle room. I am not running for president,” Warren said. “No means no.”

For Warren’s speech Friday, many in the crowd donned old-fashioned “Warren for President” hats distributed by a group campaigning to draft her to run in 2016. They chanted “Run, Liz, run,” as Warren waved her hands to tamp them down.

“We can whine about it, we can whimper about it, or we can fight back,” Warren said as she laid out opposition to trade deals, big banks, and the power of lobbyists. “I’m fighting.”

Warren has pledged to fill out her Senate term, which runs through 2018. But more recently, she is using the present tense to say she is “not running for president,” appearing to leave some wiggle room should she change her mind. She repeated that phrasing in an interview Thursday when pressed, while still insisting it was a firm denial.

“There is no wiggle room. I am not running for president,” Warren said. “No means no.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/07/18/hillary-clinton-backers-try-woo-left-conference-fervent-liberals-detroit/cIOfLVn4atgXzkj0EDoE3L/story.html

[Cha]

88. Thanks for the link, Historic NY. nm

[BlueCheese]

74. The allure of Warren is that she's not the usual kind of politician.

The language is as plain as day-- I take this to mean she will not be running.

If she indeed means that she is not currently running for president, but may do so later, well, this is exactly the kind of squishy talk that makes people tired of the usual kind of politician.

[yodermon]

84. Still not a Sherman statement. She should make a Sherman statement to shut us all up. n/t

[stevenleser]

86. I'll bet she feels that she has made that kind of a statement.

What she is saying looks pretty clear.

[whistler162]

92. Not really she used that word instead of

this word and her left had was pointed to the east instead of to the north at the time of her statement. So obviously she meant that for the next 3.5 milliseconds she is in no way running. Besides the wether outside precluded a honest statement.

[Cha]

87. Not that I don't believe you but there's no link.. I one of those who does like a link. nm

[randome]

93. Well aren't YOU special?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[steve2470]

97. here you go, my friend, mahalo Cha !

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/07/18/hillary-clinton-backers-try-woo-left-conference-fervent-liberals-detroit/cIOfLVn4atgXzkj0EDoE3L/story.html

[Cha]

98. THanks steve! I saw one earlier but not when I wrote that to the OP. :)

[brooklynite]

108. Here

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/07/18/hillary-clinton-backers-try-woo-left-conference-fervent-liberals-detroit/cIOfLVn4atgXzkj0EDoE3L/story.html

I was in the car with a mobile device; this is why I didn't post in LBN.

[davidpdx]

89. Oh why can't we just get over and coronate Hillary now

Nice source btw

[LuvNewcastle]

119. There's no need to even have primaries this time.

It's Hillary's turn, after all.

[brooklynite]

126. Funny how the only people saying that are anti-Hillary people...

...nobody on Hillary's side is opposing a Primary. You just don't seem to want to find someone who actually wants to run.

[whistler162]

91. Sounds like a WT Sherman comment

June 5, 1884 in History
Event:
William Sherman refuses Republican presidential nomination saying "I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected"

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1884/june_5_1884_61323.html

[JackRiddler]

99. My, this is soooooooooooooo important to you!

Why? Why can't people call for it anyway? Got a problem with that?

[brooklynite]

103. Do I have a problem? Not at all.

I'm happy with the organization in place to encourage Hillary Clinton to run. I'm also happy with the effort I've personally made (which, amazingly enough, doesn't involve blog posts) to encourage Brian Schweitzer to run if Hillary doesn't. And I actually have no problem if, unlikely as it seems, Elizabeth Warren decided to run. What I DO have a problem with are people who "call" for her to run, but make no actual effort to convince her, and then will be first in line to complain that "they" stopped her from running when it will be obvious that she never wanted to run in the first place.

[JackRiddler]

106. So many assumptions.

And to hell with anyone who voted for the 2003 war of aggression on Iraq. This is inexcusable.

People will want an alternative to the paper tiger of Clinton, just like in 2008.

Plenty of people are encouraging Warren to run directly, as her thunderous reception at Netroots shows.

This is the real active base of the Democratic party, not the Clinton money machine's astroturf.

Sorry!

[brooklynite]

107. I guess that Elizabeth Warren has a different view than you do...

"All all of the women — Democratic women I should say — of the Senate urged Hillary Clinton to run, and I hope she does. Hillary is terrific," Warren said during an interview broadcast Sunday on ABC's "This Week," noting that she was one of several senators to sign a letter urging Clinton to run in 2016.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/27/elizabeth-warren-i-hope-hillary-clinton-runs-for-president/

[doxydad]

113. That's fine....

E. W. can do MORE as a Senator. Let Hillary run the show and get more women deeply involved to kick start the purge of these Obstructionists.