Is it ever okay for white people to listen to, play, or sing along to Ni@@as In Paris?

[Snake Alchemist]

I believe the word is slowly losing its power and to think that its power will not diminish through the ages is foolish.

Ah, have to add that this is a BLOCKBUSTER song by Kanye and Jay-Z. It's actually really good.

[whoawhat]

1. huh?

[habitual]

2. I'll have whatever you're having...

make it a single tho, the double is too much.

[cali]

3. wtf? You've managed stupid and offensive in one short post.

[Snake Alchemist]

4. There was a recent post about the n-word where people were saying that it would always be off limits

even 100's of years from now. I think that is ridiculous. I think that like all words it will lose it's acidity as time flows on.

[cali]

25. maybe so, but not now and not in the near future and you could have

said this in your op instead of posting offensive shit for shock value you could have made your point- which you did not.

[Snake Alchemist]

28. I thought the body of my OP explained it well. I did add some explanation to it after a poster made

a suggestion.

[snooper2]

48. If EVERYBODY would just have been informed by this we wouldn't need all these fucking threads

[HappyMe]

5. Wtf?

[MrBig]

6. You should probably add

That it was a hit song by Kanye West and Jay-Z that sold over 2 million copies.

I think some people think you just made up a random song.

[Snake Alchemist]

9. Wow, never occurred to me that people would not know the song. nt

[Fawke Em]

19. A lot of people don't like hip-hop.

I, personally, never listen to it.

I know the names of the people who apparently sang the song, but I couldn't tell you a thing they sing.

That, BTW, doesn't make me a racist. I don't listen to country music, either.

[Snake Alchemist]

21. I should have realized that. I'm a bit fan of hip-hop. My wife LOVES country.

Somehow we make it work .

[one_voice]

44. It's workable for sure...

[Fawke Em]

58. I like old rap, FWIW.

Once it degraded to nigga, bitches and 'ho's, I kind of just left it.

I guess I'll get flagged for what I posted, but my point is that I simply haven't liked it since the early 90s. However, I would NEVER tell someone else what to like or not like.

[Ikonoklast]

7. Maybe. I Really Try

not to judge what other people might enjoy doing, unless it is harmful in some way.

But do a little experiment first: Walk up to the first random black person you see and ask them that question.

[trumad]

8. Dude--- walk away from the pipe.

[Marrah_G]

10. Do you really want to say it that badly?

Seriously, WTF?

[Snake Alchemist]

11. No, but I do believe that it's slowly losing power and don't mind it in hip-hop. nt

[Marrah_G]

12. Your OP is really offensive

I would ask you to consider self-deleting this.

[Snake Alchemist]

13. Why is it offensive? nt

[LiberalAndProud]

15. Sadly, I believe this is a genuine question.

Clearly, you have never had the word directed at yourself or at someone you love for no offense except for being in the same place with some slime who feels entitled to hurl the word. It doesn't hurt until it touches you.

[Snake Alchemist]

16. I am most often mistaken for being hispanic, but only occassionally for being black.

Interesting when you're kind of between shades.

[LiberalAndProud]

27. So you say.

I'm puzzled by your non-responsive response. Bafflement.

[Snake Alchemist]

30. All I can do is say. I won't be posting any pictures. nt

[trumad]

14. Well the jury voted 3-3 to leave it alone

Idiot jurors.

[Fawke Em]

22. It's offensive to quote song lyrics?

Why?

Maybe you didn't come back here after the OP added that it was a song. I wouldn't have known that it was, either, but I now that I know, I don't find the OP offensive in the least.

[agenda 21.]

59. Why? Does it challenge you too much? n/t

[demmiblue]

17. So... anyone have the original jury results?

Unbelievable that this tripe was left to stand.

[Marrah_G]

20. I alerted on this

Here were the results:

Mail Message
At Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:18 PM you sent an alert on the following post:



REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

This sort of post is offensive and divisive.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:18 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Thank you.

___________________________________

Since the juries won't step up and put a stop to this sort of thing all we can really do is put those who continue to behave like this on ignore.

[demmiblue]

23. I would love to see the jury comments.

Ughh.

[Marrah_G]

32. I didn't show me any

Not sure why

[Fawke Em]

26. The jury apparently had facts you didn't.

Like the fact that this is song lyrics.

[Marrah_G]

33. In my opinion the lyrics don't matter

It's the intent of this post, to be offensive and divisive. It used to be called flamebait.

[Snake Alchemist]

36. The intent is to foster discussion. I'm a fan of hip-hop. Some consider the use of the word

within the songs to be offensive and some do not.

[bighart]

51. It does seem that intelligent discussion that actually produces positive results about some subjects

is almost impossible.
I find the whole notion of using "n word", "b word", "c word" in what could, and should, be an intelligent conversation about racism or sexism to be juvenile and it detracts from the conversation. It reminds me of the way parents used to use euphemisms for things like sex, alcohol and drug abuse etc. It detracted from the conversation and kept them from engaging in productive conversations with their children.

Shame and fear have no place in discussion with the intent to address a divisive topic in a productive and understanding way

[Fawke Em]

57. Then your problem is with Kayne West and Jay Z, not the OP

They created the song.

The OP wasn't eloquent in his/her presentation, but he/she didn't write the song.

[bighart]

61. Don't have a probelm with the op or anyone else,

just making an observation.

[MrBig]

31. I think the question posed is a legitimate question

Given the dialogue that has been posted on this website, it's a legitimate question. Is it offensive to use a highly charged and racist word if said while singing/rapping along to a famous song?

This isn't a rhetorical question, but rather one that I think would produce some interesting conversation.

If you answer that it is not offensive, why? Despite the fact that it is being used in a song, it still carries the weight of being an offensive word. If

If you answer that it is offensive, why? It's a lyric in a song/rap, and not being said in the context of the meaning of the word, nor is it being directed at anyone.

[Marrah_G]

34. It's not the song or the lyrics that are offensive, in my opinion

Rather it is why it was posted now, why it was posted here and what the intended effects of the post are.

In my opinion it was posted as flamebait, rather then as a legitimate question.

[The Straight Story]

41. Probably posted now because it is a current topic of discussion of late

Next week it will be something else.

If it was posted totally out the blue (ie, other threads not being around to be relevant) someone would ask "What prompted you to ask this now?"

I can see it being relevant because I have heard on the one hand "If the person hearing it is offended then it is considered offensive" and on the other hand "If the person is in a majority it can't possibly be offensive."

Kind of like hearing "I am all about your body and your choice" and then saying "Adults 21 and older shouldn't be allowed to smoke in bars, they need me to make that choice for them and their body." It's not really about the actual principle, just how people can use that when they see fit.

[WinniSkipper]

43. And another conundrum.....

I have tried to find recent demographics for the hip hop/rap audience. I cannot find any - perhaps someone with better knowledge of the industry can locate.

Can I assume that rap/hip hop audience is 50% white? With the size of the market the genre commands - thats probably a conservative assumption. Last real number I saw was 65% in early 2000s but that's almost a decade old

Our youth (both black and white) - must be supremely confused. I'm not talking about most of us here. I am talking young, impressionable kids. Who look up to a lot of these stars like gods, or at least as someone who knows what they are talking about. What are they supposed to think? They do not have the benefit of knowing the history of the word. Where are they supposed to learn? The mixed signals these kids are receiving are perplexing.

And don't forget - these are not just any two guys. Jay-Z and Kanye West are two of THE MOST POWERFUL men in the industry. These are two highly intelligent men, they are both seasoned businessmen, and incredibly successful. I would love to hear their thoughts on the issue (that's not sarcastic - I am serious).

[MrBig]

45. Interesting addition

I think you are spot on with your discussion of youths and the word. It will be interesting as it appears that with each passing generation, people become less and less aware of the terribly racist history of the word and associate it more with pop culture references.

[WinniSkipper]

47. Thanks for the reply

I have spent a good portion of the last decade around the teen/early 20s demographic. No bad jokes, please

We, as the elder generation, have the benefit of the understanding the significance of the world as it was "originally" used. The majority of the younger ones do not.

And call me crazy - but here is how some of the kids I had a discussion with put it. (paraphrased from many discussions) "The word you are talking about is xx@@-ER. We don't use that. It's xx@@-A- totally different".

Now - whether I actually agree with that statement - not pertinent. I have a different perspective. But you cannot ask kids to have the same view of the word we did. It was "forbidden" when I grew up. Commonplace when and where my grandparents grew up (for all the wrong reasons).

And it's Top 20, everyday slang for today's youth.

[Snake Alchemist]

50. Do we have the benefit or do they have the benefit? I wonder sometimes. nt

[WinniSkipper]

52. Thats a great question.

My vote (on this issue - not all) - it is "they".

It doesn't seem like our "benefit" has us coming to a consensus on the issue. Quite the opposite.

Whereas - their generation - black, white, all colors - seem to be in the process of defining their language of society. Which is what we did/do.

One interesting notion - we on this board (the "old" folks) are actually behind them on one respect. They grow up where the "baseline" of communication is not face to face words - it's bits and bytes.

Their style of communication is a lot more "impersonal" than you or I were brought up with. Think of it - what - 50%, 60% of their communication is not in person. Ours - it was 5% over the phone the rest in person. They dynamics of how kids learn to socialize is so far removed from even a decade ago, I am not sure we (the elder set) even can understand how the roots of their social interaction work. So how are we supposed to tell them what to do?

I would like to ask - folks under 25 - what are your opinions?

[MrBig]

53. What I find interesting

Is the increasing popularity of arguing for a distinction between using "-er" and "-a". The idea being that one is the racist and offensive use of the word, whereas the other is the socially acceptable use of the word.

I wonder how this usage will continue in future generations.

[WinniSkipper]

54. I think it will - at least for the near future

And I think the genesis from that argument will come mostly from the younger generation.

It's interesting. I think back to one of the more amazing things I saw in the MTV heyday. When Run DMC and Aerosmith teamed for Walk This Way. That (IMO) was the beginning of full integration of rap/hip hop going mainstream.

At that point - you have not just genres but cultures coming together. Cultures involve languages, prejudices, curiosities about each other. So now - black culture had a true white audience. I think this drastically differs from Motown in the 60s.

The adoption of Motown style and culture to a white audience pails in comparison. Look at the influence hip hop has had on white culture, specifically teens. Language. Fashion. Music. An appreciation and respect for the other race.

[MrScorpio]

18. Here's a great place to ask

https://twitter.com/yoisthisracist

I'm serious.

[Kingofalldems]

24. I have a question:

Is this your first time as a DU member or have you been here before?

[Snake Alchemist]

29. I was here yesterday? nt

[Rex]

35. Do you do so?

Just curious.

[Snake Alchemist]

37. Sometimes. I feel a little weird when I'm blasting the songs in my car in a parking lot

or during slow traffic with my windows open. I'm not black, but am fairly brown from mixed heritage.

[Rex]

40. If I own a CD and there are words in some of the songs

that are racist, does that make me a racist?

[doh1]

38. I would say that if you are singing a song, you are not meaning it in a degrading way.

singing it in a song is different then directing it toward an individual.

[Snake Alchemist]

39. I would agree. I'm also not offended when the artists use it. nt

[doh1]

55. I agree.

[LanternWaste]

42. Try asking this (or doing this) in a an predominantly black neighborhood...

Try asking this (or doing this) in a an obvious and loud fashion in a predominantly black neighborhood.

I imagine you'll receive your relevant answer one way or another...

[agenda 21.]

60. So basically you're implying that some form of violence

would occur? I DESPISE when I hear subwoofers & (c)rap blaring from a car. Sometimes I look and it's some White dude. And the N-word is being thrown around left and right (the area's diverse). How could anyone get mad at someone listening to a popular "artist" who just happens to have a limited vocabulary and vulgar mentality?

[treestar]

46. No

But then I have to wonder why black people use this word - especially in a song like that. Are white people even supposed to listen to this song? This word is terrible so if I were black I would not use it either - why use it then? Though I get the idea of owning it - as with women, using the "b" word that way. I also notice the B word getting less weighty with females calling each other and their friends "bitches." But I wouldn't like men using it. It must be in the tone or intent, and if you're white, the tone or intent can never come across "right" for the ownership type aspect of the use.

[bighart]

49. I am utterly dumbstruck by this comment:

"Are white people even supposed to listen to this song?"
Is that a serious question?

[treestar]

56. Well we aren't supposed to use the N word

Certainly we are racists if we USE it - so why would it be permissible to listen to this song? Like the OP said, you might hum along with a song or sing the lyrics - certainly a white person could not sing lyrics that contain the N word, even like that?

[morningfog]

62. If you have to ask, the answer is no.

[TacoD]

63. That shit cray (nt)

[Fla_Democrat]

64. Chin Check

N.W.A.