Are you okay with the right wing calling Hillary Clinton a bitch?

[Luminous Animal]

23 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	4 (17%)
	No
	19 (83%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Hofbrau]

1. I'm 'ok' with the 1st amendment...

... And outside of government I prefer more speech than less...

So sure...

I reserve the right to call them an asshole though..

[Gravitycollapse]

3. Maybe the goal should be better speech rather than more speech.

While the guarantee of the 1st amendment is essentially universal, outside of direct threats and incitements, it is meant to insure where law cannot infringe, not explicate how language should be used.

It is up to ourselves, both as individuals and as a social group, to use language responsibly and not simply in stupid abundance.

So, when the OP asks if it is "okay" for conservatives to call Hillary a name, they are not asking if it should be legal or illegal but instead whether or not you find it ethically objectionable.

We need to enter these discussions with an implicit understanding associated with 1st amendment guarantees and then move on to the subject at hand.

[Hofbrau]

8. Hence the second part of that statement...

I prefer more speech to less and reserve the right to curse out anyone I deem worthy and expect the same from others.

So ethically I'm still fine...

If you had asked if it was rude perhaps...

[moriah]

9. Uh, that's not necessarily protected by the First Amendment.

The "fighting words" exception comes to mind, for example, if you really did decide to bless someone out who didn't agree that you had the right to do that to them, particularly if you did it to their face.

[Hofbrau]

11. You are overthinking it a bit...

But...

If I were to call Clinton a bitch to her face in polite conversation I would rightfully expect some negative consequences.

Same for Palin, Cheney or that woman down the street who can't keep her dogs under control.

Consequences... Amazing stuff...

[moriah]

12. What I'm saying is, if you really do "reserve the right to curse out anyone".....

... just because you wouldn't mind them doing the same to you, you're going to be in for a rude wake-up call someday.

[Hofbrau]

13. Sigh...

Have we really gone so far that it must be explicitly stated that there will be consequences to actions?

Really?

[moriah]

22. Those consequences may also be legal ones, despite you thinking it's protected speech.

For instance, if the person you cuss out fears that you're about to hit them while you're doing it because you're up in their face, or you're big and scary... that's misdemeanor assault in my state.

[whathehell]

26. Yes, I'm afraid we have..

[H2O Man]

39. Clearly, you are

at high risk of having Dick Cheney viciously attack you -- physically, mind you -- if you express your opinion.

[H2O Man]

43. I'd say that

being brutalized by Cheney would be a negative consequence. And I do believe you brought the topic of physical attack up.

[H2O Man]

46. Actually,

I'm in agreement with you. I'm making jokes about the other person's position. But I'm not very funny on a good day, and so it isn't coming across as I intended.

[redqueen]

84. I wonder if that troll was someone's sock. nt

[Warpy]

57. Thanks, same here, card carrying ACLU member

and I'd rather wince at a few words here and there than see sites that supposedly cater to adults censored in a manner to make them safe for impressionable kiddies who wouldn't read them, anyway.

In fact, every time they call her that, I take it as a great compliment to her. The source of such comments should always be considered.

[Luminous Animal]

60. As is calling Obama a n****r a compliment to him.

And yes. I think the right wing calling a woman a bitch is on the same level as calling Obama a n****r.

And yes, I understand the bizarre implications that I can type out the word bitch and not the word n****r.

[Chan790]

80. St. Bonaventure.

"How like a monkey is man? The higher he climbs, the more you see of his ass." (An astute observation on the nature of public displays, fame, audience size and how actions often reflect on the actor rather than the subject. Also, proof that not all Catholic saints are goody-goodies; St. B. was quite the witticist and social critic.)

I wouldn't go so far as to call any of these a complement, except in so far as some people's hatred of you is something to be proud of.

If people are stupid enough to publicly call the President a n****r, i think it harms them more than it harms him...it's not the first time he's heard that word, I doubt it shocks him to learn that's what they think of him--on some level I think he may even revel in their hatred of him, it reflects so very badly on the speaker. It reflects badly on the causes, positions and affiliations of the speaker.

The same are all probably true of Sec. Clinton; politics at that level requires thick skin.

What does someone calling Hillary Clinton a b***h tell you about Hillary Clinton? Nothing
What does someone calling Hillary Clinton a b***h tell you about that person? Everything

[Luminous Animal]

58. So, you are okay with calling Obama a n****r. Because, you know. Free speech!

[Throd]

92. OK with saying it? No. OK with the right to say it? Yes.

[merrily]

61. The first amendment applies to government prosecution, etc., not to your opinion.

It's quite consistent with the first amendment to think calling any woman a bitch is sexist and very wrong.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. I don't really care what they call her...

it's expected they'll be nasty, and probably the best thing is not to engage them on their terms.

[AuntPatsy]

5. Not true, when you continue to ignore the nastiness, it tends to increase in volume....

I know its a fantasy that all humanity, Americans in particular will find a way to ensure tranquility among us all...something we were once promised would be in our futures, but I do honestly believe that the truth lies in ensuring the truth be spoken, if not, the truth will never be heard...at least not by all that needs to hear it, even if they choose to ignore it, at least you know you've tried....

Words matter, it cannot be said enough...

[msongs]

4. stupid move, just makes women angry and riles up the clintonites nt

[betsuni]

6. But that's obviously the point.

[Enrique]

7. more relevant is whether WE call her a bitch

which I've seen her called here at DU, and the post allowed to remain. Same with Nancy Pelosi.

Of course there were excuses, causes so righteous that it was ok to use that word. In Hillary's case it was that she was running against Obama, and in Pelosi's case it was because she didn't impeach Bush.

[delrem]

10. I'm surprised such posters weren't PPRed.

It doesn't make much sense, if they weren't.

[joshcryer]

15. Do you have an instance of that?

I'd be happy to know the usernames so I could be instructed on their interactions with me in the future.

[Enrique]

16. no, but I don't care much about the individual poster

my interest is in the acceptance by everyone else. Sometimes there were protests about the word, that's for sure.

And one thing I didn't mention is the use of the word toward Republican women, e.g. Condi Rice. Again, sometimes there were protests, but not nearly enough of them for us to feel 100% superior on this issue.

[Katashi_itto]

73. agree, I don't care what the right calls her. I care about what we call her. As long as it's not

Liberal or anything false like that. Proto-Fascist maybe. An architect and supporter of the TPP definitely. I can think of lots of accurate terms for her. But not what the RW calls her.

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. Not especially, but...

I'm more concerned with misogyny on the putative left, honestly, than on the right--plenty of which has been directed at Hillary Clinton, but also at other women, including many I personally have ideological disagreements with; I'm not really okay with people on the "left" calling, say, Ann Coulter "bitch", "cunt" and "Mann Coulter" (which manages to be both misogynist and transphobic). Is she a vile human being? Yes, but that's because of the opinions she chooses to express, and her gender has no relevance to that whatever.

[nomorenomore08]

65. Not to mention there are plenty of profane insults one can use which don't necessarily invoke gender

[JustAnotherGen]

17. My answer is No

But they will anyways.

Newtie opened the door to that years ago. I think it was when he was married to (I forget which number wife) and messing around with his current wife.

Oh fiddle dee - some man who sleeps around outside of his "sacred hetero marriage" calls a liberal woman . . . I don't really respect those people and hold a very low opinion of them due to the rampant hypocrisy they display - so its hard to take one of them seriously.

Now if it came from someone under our big tent - I would flip a shit.

[BlueMTexpat]

18. Frankly, I am NOT OK with ANYONE using

a deliberately misogynistic slur against ANY woman. Each carries a ton of baggage and is intended to "put" a woman "in her place" and literally chill speech or assertive behavior by women generally.

Free speech or not. It is simply not acceptable.

[redqueen]

27. Very well said.

Thank you.

[CountAllVotes]

31. +1,000

Well said! Excellent post!

[steve2470]

71. agree, not against any Republican woman either or anyone nt

[JoDog]

19. Don't like it

but I'm willing to turn it around and use it against them.


TINA FEY: Maybe what bothers me the most is that people say that Hillary is a bitch. Let me say something about that: Yeah, she is. So am I and so is this one. [Points to Amy Poehler]

AMY POEHLER: Yeah, deal with it.

TINA FEY: You know what, bitches get stuff done. That’s why Catholic schools use nuns as teachers and not priests. Those nuns are mean old clams and they sleep on cots and they’re allowed to hit you. And at the end of the school year you hated those bitches but you knew the capital of Vermont. So, I’m saying it’s not too late Texas and Ohio, bitch is the new black!

http://www.salon.com/2008/02/25/fey/

[CBGLuthier]

35. Just because two well-empowered women think it is OK that

does not help the common woman who is called the word for being tough or not smiling or just the general fuck of it by some asswipe.

[Hestia]

50. Why doesn't it? Do you how long it takes to proudly own the title of Bitch? I worked long and hard

to get here and with older women I will sometimes use the word in admiration, especially if she has done something devious; and in rancor admittedly. Why are y'all so scared of words? Especially Title Words for Women. Rubber? Glue?

It is a title of the Great Mother Goddess, as with all multi-breasted animals, providing humankind with Her nourishing enrichment of love, food, home, and succor.

I find it funny whether men say it is or it is not okay for a woman to be called a bitch.

Y'all keep getting all distracted by the bull that the GOP throws, quibbling about words in a dictionary, while we adults sit here on the sidelines working. IOW - who gives a shit? This is what the other side does - getting their knickers in a knot, parsing each and every word, "outraged" at something said, trying to blind people from the real message.

Grow up!

[Luminous Animal]

62. Really. I watched my daughter being called a bitch because she didn't smile when a random stranger

asked her to.

And you are proud that a woman does something devious? Any woman or man should be ashamed to do something devious. And that you would proudly ascribe the word bitch to a deviousness is um, kind of making my point.

And adults who sit on the sidelines aren't working in fact this is one of the most incomprehensible thing I have ever read on DU...

"Y'all keep getting all distracted by the bull that the GOP throws, quibbling about words in a dictionary, while we adults sit here on the sidelines working. IOW - who gives a shit? This is what the other side does - getting their knickers in a knot, parsing each and every word, "outraged" at something said, trying to blind people from the real message."

[nomorenomore08]

66. And if not incomprehensible, then awfully strawman-y... n/t

[RobinA]

75. Touche!

Say it!

[redqueen]

86. Why do you think that how you and your friends use the words matters?

Use it about yourself if you want. Use it about your friends if they like it. I doubt many care.

What we do care about is when these anti woman slurs are used to label women who haven't signed on with the "I love hate speech about women because I'm reclaiming it!" parade.

Do whatever you want but don't pretend that means anyone else should tolerate misogynist hate speech.

[el_bryanto]

20. No. But I'm fine with the left wing calling her a pro wall street middle of the roader nt.

[TBF]

21. And I'm not OK with DU doing it either. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

23. I'm not okay with anyone calling her a bitch,

not even other women.

[cyberswede]

25. I agree. nt

[LWolf]

24. I'm not okay with primitive, juvenile name-calling and bullying

directed toward anyone. Including all those DUers love to do so to.

I'm fine with legitimate criticisms based on evidence. For example, I have no trouble calling HRC a neo-liberal, and that is definitely not a compliment. It's also not middle-school bullying.

[RKP5637]

28. Much of the right wing dialog is that of a 7th grade playground. n/t

[11 Bravo]

30. There are DUers who will call and raise ANYTHING that she is called by the right.

[djean111]

32. I am not okay with the right wing calling ANYBODY a bitch. Why limit it to Clinton?

Doesn't change that I feel she is a corporatist and would rather see someone more progressive as the candidate.
This question seems pointless, somehow.

[CBGLuthier]

33. Now that is a tough one because of course we do not approve of it, but

if they do it they will be seen as the misogynistic assholes they really are and that will hurt them. I am going to abstain from this dilemma.

[conservaphobe]

34. No. And people should also refrain from snarky comments

about her pantsuits and ambition... all sexist bullshit.

[Spirochete]

36. no, but

the days of expecting anything more classy than that from them are long gone...

[badtoworse]

37. I don't care one way or the other. Polite political discourse is a thing of the past...

...and DU is certainly in no position to throw stones.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. I don't really care about much of anything the right wing says.

Whether the Republican right wing or the Democratic right wing (i.e. Third Way, New Democrats, DLC).

[tularetom]

42. It would be better if they didn't do it, but why should anybody be surprised?

Seriously, did you expect a little more class from them?

As far as I'm concerned, if people I seriously dislike use a bad name to describe someone I less seriously dislike, it isn't in the top ten of things I get pissed off about. They've said far worse than that about Obama and we didn't see anywhere near this level of outrage at DU then.

[sarisataka]

44. No but it doesn't surprise me

RWers are usually nekulturny

[McCamy Taylor]

47. As long as I can call Dick Cheney a dick, I figure it is all even.

First Amendment comes first.

[HooptieWagon]

48. Many DUers have called conservative figures worse...

So I don't think we should be taking a holier-than-thou attitude. She's been a public figure a long time, I'm guessing HRC has grown a thick skin inre name-calling.

[Zorra]

51. I don't like it when anyone calls another person that. It's a sexist slur. nt

[napi21]

52. IDON'Tagree with ayone calling Hillary or any other public figure a "B",but

I call myself a Bitch, when I am. And in many instances when it's called for, I'm very proud to be a bitch!

[Warren DeMontague]

53. If the real-world result is that it contributes substantially to them losing a big election to her

... I might be.

[MohRokTah]

55. Anybody who voted yes should be banned from this site. eom

[Luminous Animal]

56. What about Sarah Palin? Would it be okay to call her a bitch?

[nilesobek]

63. Its just a dishonorable thing to do and it would show

shocking weakness that you would have to resort to playground cursing tactics.

[steve2470]

69. it's not OK imho to call Sarah Palin a bitch

Call her stupid, call her morally bankrupt, etc. YMMV.

[MohRokTah]

72. It's not okay to cal ANYBODY that word. eom

[Skittles]

88. it's the usual pathetic folk

at least they had more guts than the "neither option" folk

[RobertEarl]

59. Hell no

Should they be arrested? Not for that.

Should they be called out, and if they wrote that word on DU they were banned? Sure.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

64. I don't think the word should be banned but it's an ugly word I never use

even when some of the female gender have pissed me off so I'm not okay with it. Those up-thread who talk about the First Amendment are implying that because someone condemns the use of a certain word it means we want to ban it as speech. I don't interpret the op's question that way. We have free speech to say that word but also to speak out against the usage of certain words and to call the attention of the public to the lack of civility in those who use it. If the right wants to call Hillary Clinton a bitch, then they're going to bring down hell on their heads not only from women, but from husbands, sons, brothers, fathers, and male friends of women who will see it as being extremely ungentlemanly and barbaric, even if they are Republicans.

Occasionally I've found the use of the word funny if said in jest, such as in the movie Paul, where the old lady who gets reunited with the alien she saw as a child confronts Sigourney Weaver and yells "get away from her, you bitch".

[nomorenomore08]

67. That's fiction, though. I've laughed at plenty of things in movies that would horrify me IRL. n/t

[Gothmog]

68. The right is full of some real idiots

Calling Sec. Clinton any name is wrong

[doxydad]

70. Screw 'em.

Doxy Sr. always told me, "Son...if they're talking about you, they're leaving some other poor sonofabitch alone. wear it with pride. " He was right, as usual.

[Vinca]

74. It's expected from the GOP and I can't say much since I've call GOP women a whole lot worse.

Screaming at my television, of course, not in public. I mean . . . really . . . who doesn't think Marsha Blackburn's a . . . never mind.

[ismnotwasm]

76. Fuck no nt

[bluestateguy]

77. No, but a lot of people here seem to excuse it from LW Clinton haters

nt

[mindem]

78. It isn't ok

But being vile, thoughtless and crude is standard operating procedure for republicans now days. I can't think of the last time I saw a letter to the editor - about anything - from a republican that that wasn't caustic and insulting.

[dembotoz]

79. that is when they are being nice

the right wing hate machine is already in gear and the foot is on the gas

spend a few moments in some of the comments sections on facebook
or your local paper for that matter

[Beacool]

81. No, I'm not OK with the RW calling her that epithet.

Although, it's not just the RW. She's been called worse by the LW.

I'm against sexist terms being used against any woman, regardless of how I personally feel about that woman.

[lame54]

82. It's inevitable - It's how she handles it that counts...

I hope she can be like Obama and rise above it

[Sheldon Cooper]

83. How do we beat the bitch?

I'm amazed that anyone here could think this was okay, but I guess there are some who really want to "embrace" the term. That it was uttered by a woman makes it no less nasty.

[MineralMan]

85. I oppose anyone calling anyone else a bitch.

It's an ugly insult, no matter how it is used to describe people.

[ProfessorGAC]

87. Question Needs An Answer?

Of course not. I know it's a commonly used term when someone acts in a way that irritates, but that doesn't make it ok no matter who uses it and toward whom it's directed.

Since it's common parlance, it would be hard to change the usage, but that doesn't make it ok.

[treestar]

89. NO. Of course, the right wing WILL do it

as they will to any female Democratic politician.

And if someone calls Republican female politicians that, they will duly whine about how wrong it is.

[rock]

90. Now who do think their calling Clinton a "bitch" reflects poorly on?

This is of course rhetorical. So, yes, I'm OK with the shit-for-brains Blics mewling whatever they want.

[AndreaCG]

91. It's not a great term

I've been guilty of using it. I try not to. But it's ironic in my opinion because Hillary may have her faults but her demeanor is not one of them. She is extremely civil for the most part, as befits a former Secretary of State, which is particularly remarkable because she's been dealing with the rabid right wingers irrationality about her and her husband for decades. If anyone has earned the right to be snarky with her critics she has. But more often than not she refrains from doing so.

[TheKentuckian]

93. I oppose their very existence so I would oppose them calling her a child of God.