JUST. STOP. IT.

[Triana]

[Xipe Totec]

1. Fucking brilliant! nt

[BootinUp]

2. Fugelsang is a patriot imho. nt

[Triana]

4. Damn @MSNBC ought to give the man his own show.

Last edited Wed Jul 16, 2014, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

He'd set the network afire with his humor and brilliance. Ratings thru the roof I bet. They should give him a try on his own show.

PETITION to Phil Griffin, MSNBC CEO:

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/please-give-john-fugelsang

[spooky3]

12. He was the best of the Sexy Liberal show tour.

Clever and insightful--and funny.

[Marie Marie]

15. I second this!

He needs his own show.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Although I have used some of those same types of arguments.

[99Forever]

5. Damn right.

[SummerSnow]

6. I'm sure it was quoted on DU before , but repeating it is so appropriate

:large

[Triana]

10. +1

I LOVE that one!

[calimary]

7. I'd push it farther - on the pro-choice front, that is.

If you really, seriously, ardently, and truly believe you're "pro-life," then here's what you can no longer support:

The death penalty. PERIOD. Pro-life means Pro-LIFE. EVERYBODY's life. Even the felons and the murderers. Yes, even the bad guys. If you're gonna be that staunch about it, if it's LIFE ABOVE ALL ELSE, then this one's gotta go. It's simply OFF your list. Sorry.

The Second Amendment - free, open, unregulated, wanton access to guns. They DO kill people, no matter how you try to rationalize it or qualify it or split hairs about it. And yes, people kill people. WITH GUNS. PERIOD. Guns lead directly to death. Even when it's a so-called "bad guy" and sometimes that distinction is only in the eye of the (be)holder. If you're REALLY AND TRULY pro-LIFE, then NO MORE GUNS for you! Sorry. Them's the breaks. It's all or nothin'. Either you're all the way pro-LIFE or you're not. No wiggle room.

The Pentagon. Wars kill people, repeat - WARS KILL PEOPLE. Especially innocents. You know, the innocents like you claim that masses of differentiating cells in the first trimester are, too. You can't be for war or American imperialism or "police actions" where people get killed. If you're TRULY pro-life, then YOU cannot go there, either. You have to turn your little pro-life self into an ardent peacenik. Sorry!

republi-CON governors - who refuse the Affordable Care Act or ANY efforts from Washington to send money to the states so more of their citizens can qualify for Medicare and other aid. People DIE when they can't afford health care, or the insurance coverage of same. They get sick, can't afford to get treated until it's probably too late, and they DIE. You're pro-LIFE, you say? Well, then you better get behind that dreaded "Obamacare" you hate so much. Sorry. Hate to break it to you. Like it or not, that Obamacare you hate so much is saving lives.

The Government. Regulators and regulations. Sorry - heck, DOUBLE-Sorry! Those in the government you hate - who test your food and your meds, impose strict standards for safety, cleanliness, truth-in-advertising, testing of household chemicals, milk, foodstuffs, the safety of cars on the road, civil engineering that ensures bridges don't collapse and levees don't break and your roof is solid and won't fall in every time it sprinkles, the safety of tires, water quality, electrical appliances and anything else with a UL-Approved rating, insulation, proper airline maintenance, heating elements, chemicals leaking from the power plants and coal-refineries near you, imports from China (you okay with your baby wearing cheap-ass flammable PJs every night?), a livable wage, all those things, those rules, those laws, those regulations, those restrictions, those governmental "interferences" into your life - ALL THOSE THINGS SAVE LIVES. ALL of them. If you're REALLY pro-LIFE, then you have to be in favor of ALL those things - and rather STAUNCHLY in favor of ALL those things, too. Because without them, people WILL die before their time. Without them, people will be killed.

Sorry, but that's how it is. Either you're pro-LIFE - or you're not. And being pro-"life" goes a helluva lot farther than just making sure some woman who works for you can't afford to get contraceptives because you think your religion is more important than her health and well-being are.

[LuckyLib]

18. Yes! Submit this as a LTTE to your local

paper. This needs to be seen by lots more folks!! Well done and right on target!

[merrily]

23. Yep. This is why no one who is pro-choice should use the term "pro-life" or let

anyone who is not truly pro-life get away with using it.

If someone doesn't believe in protecting life that is outside the womb from hunger, illness, war, random shootings, state mandated murder or other unnecessary suffering or unnecessary death, that person is anti-choice, period. Please label them correctly as "anti-choice," even "anti-women's health" and push back every time anyone in your presence claims to be pro-choice.

Words matter. Frank Lunz (to name only one) has made a lucrative career out of choosing different words for awful things, to make them sound less awful. That's because words influence how we think and how we think influences how we speak and act.

A bit of history on the linguistics of the subject for those who may not know: The lingo started with "anti-abortion" and "pro-abortion."

Then, pro-choice people got that they were not pushing abortions, per se, but advocating only that a woman should have a right to make choices about her own body and her own health needs. (No one cheerleads for abortion per se.) So, they dropped the inaccurate "pro-abortion and substituted the more accurate "pro-choice."

For about a minute and a half (figuratively), the two sides were "pro-choice" and "anti-abortion." That was not accurate, either, though because, as Hobby Lobby showed, it is not only abortion they are against. And they do not limit their opposition to their own lives, but insist on removing choice from others as well. Also, "anti-abortion" implied the other side of the issue was proabortion, which it is not.

Soon after "pro-choice" came into use, the anti-choice people claimed they were not really "anti" anything. They were simply "pro-life." And our disgusting media immediately took up that lie. A huge lie from people who never (until Obama?) met an alleged casus belli they couldn't get behind, who applauded Ron Paul when he mentioned the specter of someone's dropping dead outside an Emergency Room door for lack of health insurance, who applaud their Governors when they speak of how many their state executed that year, who begrudge every penny that does not go to private profits, etc.

Pro-Life? I think not. It is not merely a word choice. It's a huge lie. Don't let anyone get away with a lie that huge.

[riqster]

26. I call such people "anti-choice", "pro-forced-birth", and "big-government types".

It's important to choose words that are both accurate and powerful.

[merrily]

28. Agreed. My preferences are "anti-choice" and "anti-women's health."

But, whatever works best for you is great.

[freebrew]

30. Rape enablers...nt

[Enthusiast]

25. They're not really pro-life.

They are selectively pro-life.

[ErikJ]

8. Their comeback-But thats Soshalizm!

They have been thoroughkly brainwshed by the 1% that anything the govt does is socialism.

[merrily]

29. Print out the dictionary definition(s) of socialism and hand them a printout.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialism

Of course, you may also have to explain what government's owning the means of production actually means. For example, if Obamacare were actually socialist, the government would be owning the health insurance companies, the hospitals, the labs, the X-ray machines, etc., hiring and firing doctors and nurses, etc.

Because if they think Obamacare is socialism, they have no clue. You can tell 'em I said so, too!

[ErikJ]

32. Varying degrees of socialism-That's 100% socialism

Youre right but I believe "socialism" is by degrees. 100% socialism is communism and what we have in the US is probably 30% socialism with Europe being 40-50% socialism.
But they have them so brainwashed that even 1% is 100% socialism or communism.

[merrily]

33. I don't think we have even 30% socialism.

Our government does not own the means of production.

All governments give certain benefits to their citizens, even if it's only traffic lights, roads and polio vaccine. Giving benefits to citizens does not convert a capitalism based economy to a socialist based economy. Government's owning the means of production does that.

Our government may SUBSIDIZE the means of production in various ways, but ownership remains in private hands. (A government loan is not socialism, either.)

No, we like public losses and private profits, the worst of both the socialism and capitalism worlds.

We're even on the road to privatizing the US postal service, which is part of the US Constitution, ffs. Even our military is supplemented by private contractors.

[ErikJ]

35. Agreed but I never saiid the US owned any means of production like pure 100% socialism/communism

In fact I cant think of anything the govt manufactures for distribution in the US. They do make the roads and govt buildings, courts and VA hospitals , sidewalks, sewers and service stuff like that. They do pay private co.s for equipment they use.
But I dont think anybody wants the govt to make our shoes and cars etc.

The totality of all the govt services and infrastructure we use on a daily basis makes us probably around 30% socialistic.

[merrily]

36. Owning the means of production is the definiton of socialism.

Without that, you don't have socialism.

In fact I cant think of anything the govt manufactures for distribution in the US. They do make the roads and govt buildings, courts and VA hospitals , sidewalks, sewers and service stuff like that.

Do they? Or do they hire private contractors to make them? (VA hospitals are an exception. Government does own them. So far, anyway. Since the scandal, there has been talk of privatizing veterans' care as well.)

The totality of all the govt services and infrastructure we use on a daily basis makes us probably around 30% socialistic.

I disagree. Again, the dictionary definition of socialism is government's owning the means of production.

What definition of socialism are you using that says citizens using a road that government paid private contractors to build is some percentage of socialism?

Put another way, how are you defining "socialism"

[ErikJ]

37. The socialist spectrum

I dont care about black and white labels and definitions. RWers do that. Everything black and white. Either its socialist or American freedumb.
I prefer to think of it as a socialist spectrum.
0% socialism would be 100% libertarianism in which everything is privately owned and managed or privatized.
100% socialism would be where everything is govt owned and managed or socialized.
We are clearly between the 2 extremes. A mild kind of social democracy.
Wikipedia:
Social democracy is a political ideology that officially has as its goal the establishment of democratic socialism through reformist and gradualist methods.[1] Alternatively, social democracy is defined as a policy regime involving a universal welfare state and collective bargaining schemes within the framework of a capitalist economy. It is often used in this manner to refer to the social models and economic policies prominent in Western and Northern Europe during the later half of the 20th century.

[merrily]

38. Again, how do you define socialism?

If you don't care about definitions, how is anyone, including you, supposed to know what you are talking about?

Dictionary definitions are for the RW now? LMAO. (Yet you also claim not to care about labels.)

Using words to mean whatever you feel like having them mean is RW, not dictionary definitions.

Sorry, I cannot continue an alleged discussion based upon terms you can't define, nor one that labels dictionary definitions RW. Nor one in which you first claim socialism, then, when asked for a definition of socialism, switch over to "social democracy." But, mostly calling dictionary definitions RW.

[ErikJ]

39. HA! How do you define conservative or liberal then?

Same thing with socialism. Extreme socialism is communism where no private property everything owned by govt. Mild socialism is the govt owning the fire dept etc.

[merrily]

40. I use standard definitions, not stuff I make up to fit the post I'm making at the moment.

So, no, it's not at all the same thing as your willingness to call our economic system 30% socialist, even though it does not fit the dictionary definition. Not even close.

Sorry, ErikJ, but your responses have devolved. You're on your own in this "discussion."

[ErikJ]

41. Youre just wanting to debate.

I know you understand what I'm claiming. Look up social democracy sometime. I'm out.

[DeSwiss]

9. K&R!

[littlemissmartypants]

17. Love it! nt

[riqster]

27. Freakin' awesome. +1

[FailureToCommunicate]

11. Thanks for posting another golden nugget from Fugelsang, Traina.

[ReRe]

13. K&R

The man is brilliant AND funny (not to mention easy on the eyes. ) He subbed for Stephanie Miller week before last while she was on vacation and I watched him every day. He used to have a show on Current and I always watched him there on DVR, as his show coincided with the MSNBC line up.

[sheshe2]

14. KnR

[WillyT]

16. K & R !!!

[Triana]

19. Petition to get Fugelsang his own show on MSNBC

Wouldn't he be a fabulous addition to their line-up?

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/please-give-john-fugelsang

[Iwillnevergiveup]

20. Thanks, Triana

Signed!

[Triana]

21. Thank you!

Please share it too?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. Some of these "Patriots" are CONVINCED they are in the majority in wanting to execute Liberals.

[Enthusiast]

24. Kicked and recommended! Just the kind of insight I would expect from Fugelsang.

[JayhawkSD]

31. "If you are afraid of a public option and competition..."

When Sprint agreed to sponsor the NASCAR championship part of the deal was that no other mobile phone company would be allowed to advertise at any of the racetracks or on any of the race cars. That was when I quit going to NASCAR races and cancelled my Sprint phone account.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Triana.