Is Dennis Kucinich still a Democrat? Doesnt sound like it

[reddread]

"Who will protect us from our government? That is a central question I have after reading the Washington Post's publication of NSA intercepts given to them by whistleblower Edward Snowden (link below). The article describes an "exponential" increase in NSA spying on American citizens, gathering and storing information about deeply personal, private matters of the heart, health, and finances. What has happened is that under the guise of security, our government has annihilated each individual American's sphere of privacy. I warned of this when, as a member of Congress, I led opposition to the Patriot Act as well as opposing FISA legislation.

Every American's Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure involves the protection of one's privacy. Without privacy, the government, in effect, annexes our personal space, threatening every individual's sense of agency, and causing an extraordinary degree of self-censorship. Prior to our government instituting elements of a police state, there have been long-standing tools in the criminal justice system which describe a process by which the government can obtain a court order to gather information about individuals suspected of criminal activity. Now, however, the assumption is that everyone is a suspect and the NSA's dragnet sweeps up and stores deeply personal information on law-abiding Americans. Under these circumstances, it is not the American people who are suspect, but our government. This situation must change.

The US has been set upon a path which is anti-democratic. I am seeking to enlist the support of individuals who are concerned about this issue, to assist in developing a grass roots campaign in every neighborhood in America to begin to discuss how we may reclaim our right to be left alone, free of government suspicion which makes of everyone a suspect. Your feedback and comments are much appreciated. Dennis"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
Photo: Who will protect us from our government? That is a central question I have after reading the Washington Post's publication of NSA intercepts given to them by whistleblower Edward Snowden (link below). The article describes an "exponential" increase in NSA spying on American citizens, gathering and storing information about deeply personal, private matters of the heart, health, and finances. What has happened is that under the guise of security, our government has annihilated each individual American's sphere of privacy. I warned of this when, as a member of Congress, I led opposition to the Patriot Act as well as opposing FISA legislation.

Every American's Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure involves the protection of one's privacy. Without privacy, the government, in effect, annexes our personal space, threatening every individual's sense of agency, and causing an extraordinary degree of self-censorship. Prior to our government instituting elements of a police state, there have been long-standing tools in the criminal justice system which describe a process by which the government can obtain a court order to gather information about individuals suspected of criminal activity. Now, however, the assumption is that everyone is a suspect and the NSA's dragnet sweeps up and stores deeply personal information on law-abiding Americans. Under these circumstances, it is not the American people who are suspect, but our government. This situation must change.

The US has been set upon a path which is anti-democratic. I am seeking to enlist the support of individuals who are concerned about this issue, to assist in developing a grass roots campaign in every neighborhood in America to begin to discuss how we may reclaim our right to be left alone, free of government suspicion which makes of everyone a suspect. Your feedback and comments are much appreciated. Dennis


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html

[G_j]

1. Are you are implying that true Democrats are for

spying on their own citizens?

[NightWatcher]

2. he's retired and working for Faux Snews last I heard

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Not according to some Democrats who approve of NSA spying and see the 4th as archaic.

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. Approve so long as it's a certain someone

sitting in the Oval O. I really do think that is all it is. HL could be he POTUS and they would not be giving her the same benefit IMHO.

[treestar]

66. Exaggeration

Maybe it's just not thinking that Eddie is a whistleblower and that warranted actions under the law are not the end of the Fourth Amendment? We posted several times legal cases explaining that the FISA is an upgrade from the previous era, where Presidents did whatever they wanted.

[Iggo]

4. He's defending privacy and the fourth amendment.

What's un-Democratic about that?

[Bluenorthwest]

5. Do you know what a Democrat is?

I'm not so sure that you do.

[reddread]

7. are you implying that those ardent defenders of the NSA and detractors of Snowden, et al

are not Democrats?
We may be in agreement.

[HangOnKids]

59. Way to twist words

The poster NEVER said that and you know it. What a hoot. But bad hoot sorry to say.

[TheKentuckian]

6. We are through the looking glass if this is now what doesn't sound like a Democrat.

What universe is this again? In the dimension of time and space I was familiar with Democrats supported our essential civil liberties.

[Maedhros]

17. Those times are long gone, my friend.

It's all go-along-to-get-along now, and if that means that shredding the Bill of Rights gives one an edge with right-leaning undecided voters and corporate donors, then so be it.

[markpkessinger]

8. So "sounding like a Democrat" now requires being an apologist for NSA overreach?`

I don't think so!

(Are you sure YOU are in the correct party?)

[conservaphobe]

9. He lost his credentials the moment he supported a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning.

Attacks on the 1st Amendment are more unforgivable than any other.

[reddread]

10. damn right!

Im gonna go see some horrible movie and shout "Fire!"
(why didnt I think of that during Iron Man 3? DOH!)
then Im gonna run off somewhere else and incite a riot.
thanks for the inspire!

[conservaphobe]

11. When burning a piece of cloth results in people getting stampeded to death, try again.

Until then:

[reddread]

12. yes indeed

when a published cartoon gets people killed, you best believe some strong minded hillbillies would kill a flag burner.
and most likely it would be me.

[conservaphobe]

13. When a published cartoon or flag burning gets people killed,

then an actual crime has been committed by those who react to either. We'll agree to disagree on that.

That being said, I think the NSA should be reigned in and as much as I like this President, I am at odds with him on that issue... but I think Kucinich is an idiot who has always been overrated by the fringe on our side.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I'm not on your side

and I'm not fringe

[HangOnKids]

61. 9 days in and a hide

Keep going.....

[snooper2]

19. How about a publishing a cartoon where fundies kill themselves?

[reddread]

20. DIY

pretty sure I cant follow your reasoning, feel free to expound so i dont have to extrapolate with so little info.

[snooper2]

21. Fundies have issues with cartoons, I have issues with Fundies, how about we come up with a cartoon

where it prompts fundies of various stripes to off themselves instead of innocents?

Then we kill two birds with one stone! We get rid of fundies and keep cartoons!

[reddread]

23. trust me, Ill keep the cartoons, you can have the fundies

my walls are literally papered with comic and cartoon artworks.
Im not sure how you get a funamentalist to respond any particular way other than the old closet case in a suit and a wife with a bleached blond wig, garish makeup and trained tears

[Warren DeMontague]

27. So you think speech should be censored when it might piss off or upset people?

Someone gets on stage in front of a bunch of hard core fundamentalists and says "I'm Gay"... hey, they might freak out. Hell, they might get so mad they riot.

Obviously, it's the fault of the speaker, and the speech must be censored.

That's the logic of these half-wit "'inciting a riot' = "fire in a crowded theater" arguments.

[reddread]

28. Hell's no

I WANT to incite a riot.
In fact, the first threat I ever received from a police officer during the 91 Gulf War protests was being arrested for inciting a riot.
I was just following the logic that might have been behind supporting flag burning amendments.
Now, you wont have to dig far in my posts to find frequent reference to that seemingly abandoned canard.
I guess I should put that sarcasm thingy in my sig?
because some people just cant follow a wildly bouncing ball.
Me, I prefer that kind.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Sorry.

I totally misunderstood your point, there. My bad. I throw myself on the mercy of the wildly bouncing ball.

[reddread]

30. fuck that, youre golden

theres so many deceivers about.
Im just not gonna play to the dummies,
I got standards.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. he recanted that support ... Hillary did not

Clinton supports making flag burning illegal, but without adopting the constitutional Flag Desecration Amendment to do so.[120]
Clinton introduced the Flag Protection Act of 2005. The proposed law called for a punishment of one year in jail, and a fine of $100,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

Dennis no longer supports

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Dennis_Kucinich

[conservaphobe]

15. Then Clinton is wrong on that issue. Good for Kucinich seeing the light.

He's still a buffoon.

[reddread]

18. ever met his wife?

maybe it means nothing to discerning folks like yourself, but Ive seen her in action.
she legitimizes everything about him.

[G_j]

24. not sure I follow..

[reddread]

25. thats a long story, well worth telling, but it will take a bit, and self indicts me in murder n/t

[KoKo]

33. Here's Elizbeth Kucinich's Bio:

(Don't know what your insinuations are about...but, here is who Elizabeth K is)

-------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Kucinich

Elizabeth Jane Kucinich (née Harper; born 22 October 1977) is a British organic food and vegan advocate, a champion for peace, animals and the environment.[1] She is the director of policy at the Center for Food Safety,[2] the producer of two documentaries,[3] ('Hot Water' and 'GMO OMG') and a socially conscious business owner.[4] Married to former 8-term U.S. Congressman and two time Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich. Kucinich splits her time between Cleveland, OH and Washington, DC.

In 2005, after working with rural and urban poor in India and Tanzania, Kucinich moved to the USA to organize the first international conference on monetary reform for the American Monetary Institute. Before joining the Center for Food Safety in May 2013, Elizabeth was the director of government affairs for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) [5] and a congressional liaison for former President of the United Nations General Assembly.[6]

Kucinich is a board director of several notable organizations including Sean Penn's Haitian relief organization, J/P HRO,[7] the Rodale Institute [8] and a fledgling vegan food company, Gardenbar TM.

Kucinich is executive producer of "GMO OMG" a documentary exploring genetic engineering, which premiered at the Berlin International Film Festival in 2013, and producer of "Hot Water" which premiered at the DC Environmental Film Festival, 2013. It is a documentary exposing the harsh realities America faces as a result of uranium mining, from cancer to uncontrollable costs to tax payers.

Kucinich's appearance is often noted in the media. Vanity Fair magazine named Elizabeth Kucinich among the nation's "best dressed" political wives,[9] the Plain Dealer featured her preference for shopping in resale and consignment stores [10] and Cleveland Magazine pegged her as "Cleveland's most interesting".[11] Esquire magazine named her one of the sexiest women in politics,[12] while the Washington Post described Kucinich as "if not a national obsession, then certainly a treasured District landmark" who as "an excellent
Early life

Born Elizabeth Jane Harper, she was brought up in North Ockendon in Havering, England. She attended Coopers' Company and Coborn School in Upminster from 1989-96. According to her mother, as a girl Kucinich was always into human rights and the environment and circulated petitions on animal rights at school and lobbied Parliament from the age of 14 years. After leaving school, she travelled alone to India for six months. There she went to Agra and volunteered at one of Mother Teresa's homes for India's poorest children. After completing her university education in 2002, Kucinich moved to Tanzania where she worked with Voluntary Services Overseas, the UK's version of the Peace Corps, as a community development worker in the rural Dodoma Region.

Education

Kucinich holds a BA in Religions Studies and Theology, an MA in International Conflict Analysis from the University of Kent, U.K. and has completed vocational training in core Skills in U.N. Human Rights fieldwork, SPHERE: implementation training in Minimum Standards in Disaster Response, and the Child Protection Certificate. In alignment with her core commitments, she is also credentialed in Peace and Reconciliation Studies from Coventry University, U.K.

[reddread]

34. that all sounds great, but whatever there is behind her, how often do you get to see someone do the

right thing, for no other reason than it is?

[reddread]

35. for what its worth

damn. I guess its not that easy to post a picture, and I dont have a usable link. What my pictures show is Elizabeth Kucinich kneeling and talking to a homeless woman in a wheelchair. Im going to avoid using names that arent necessary and apologize for not having a link to post here. I guess I will try to do in a thousand words what that experience did to me in 20 minutes.
I can always count on AnnM, or others familiar with the many notable horrors of Fresno's staunch conservative policies and practices that have somewhat famously impacted the homeless and the peace community that Peace Fresno represents with so much dignity, to back up the facts I will try to present here in shorthand.
Sometime close to my birthday in December of 2007, a very special guest of honor was directed to our weekly Food Not Bombs serving at Roeding Park here in Fresno. Apparently a friend of mine was contacted by her appointment manager looking for something to do while coming into Fresno for a fundraiser meet and greet that Saturday night. Lucky for us, we were on the menu and she was able to come out to the park and see what was what.
Unluckily, from a personal perspective, attendance at these meals fluctuates, and as that day proved perfectly, when you need to impress people with the importance of the work, nearly no one showed to eat, when it would be most fortuitous from a PR POV. In fact I would be willing to say it was the least attended meal I have witnessed, although a good number of "volunteers" and other would be attendees turned up. But, there were a few reliable friends present, one of them being a very unhealthy woman named Sherrie, often called "wheelchair Sherrie" an erstwhile comfort person, with severe physical complications, and a recent history of betrayal and disservice by the local Community Hospital which received something like $20 million dollars a year to deal with indigent people and their health problems.
I was personally involved in demanding and receiving promises of real care for her conditions from doctors working for this institution, and although they hold full responsibility for their failure to uphold, I feel ultimately responsible for failing to perceive her husbands inability to protect her interests in a life and death matter. In fact, she died perhaps a month later.
All of that is simply background for what I would like to convey about Elizabeth Kucinich.

For almost her entire time there, and from the moment she got out of the car and walked towards Sherrie, she kneeled and talked with her, listened and cared. I would estimate 20 minutes passed before she got up and shook hands with people.
Its important to realize that although pictures were taken, perhaps video by her fellow travelers, those things were not the point of her actions. She was not going to exploit the situation, if only because practically no one was there, certainly no formal media, and very few observers. She simply saw Sherrie and went straight to her, listening and perhaps trying to comfort. I knew nothing of her background, but immediately sensed a combination of Mother Theresa and Princess Diana.

The saddest part for me, was a few months later when she returned to Fresno and met a packed room of supporters at the Denny's near where I live. A woman who has since departed made the bad decision of informing Elizabeth of Sherries passing.
Elizabeth broke down crying, and I could have strangled the lady who pushed that button.

Really, all of this is simply a way of me trying to convey that the GENUINE heart and compassion of this lady certifies Dennis Kucinich, in my mind as being the real thing, as much as any human can be. Otherwise, I dont think she would be with him.

and that is a really short shrift of a very long story that involves many abused and dead homeless women, including Pam Kincaid.
I suppose I could try and document and emphasize what I saw and how it was more real and IMPORTANT to someone literally dying on the streets, but its hard to get past the fact that I failed to prevent that untimely and horrific departure.
Ms. Kucinich, you will always have my deepest gratitude and admiration.
Snarky scumbags who dismiss Dennis for trying to make a living after what the Democratic National Committee did to this fearless spokesperson for peace and justice?
enmity.

[G_j]

37. Thank You

for taking the time to convey this story. powerful stuff..

[KoKo]

50. Thanks for sharing that info about Elizabeth K.....

I misread your post and apologize now that you've explained more about what you meant in the OP. I first read it as an attack on Dennis and mentioning murder in reference to Elizabeth.

[reddread]

51. those words certainly dont belong in the same mention

I feel extremely culpable for the most ridiculous and tragic ending to a life that few people would value.
its a risky thing sticking your nose into bad situations when you dont know the limitations and failings of
other individuals.
what a rough ride that was, but Elizabeth Kucinich showed the sort of caring and attentiveness that we
should all aspire to.
if only.

and thank you for listening, and hearing (and tolerating my misbehavior .
peace.

[antiquie]

57. Photo by Alvin Valeriano

During the day Elizabeth visited Food Not Bombs at Roeding Park. FNB feeds the homeless in the Roeding Park area.

[reddread]

62. oh those memories

Toms 37 Ford truck, we went to the Turlock swap meet looking for something for him, not much decent there, but I liked that truck.
The woman to the right inserting herself into the situation. her mental difficulties equally deserving of attention,
but not what most people would consider polite at the time.
Alvin picking up the bread and pastries every week.
Never know what you had until its gone.

[KoKo]

38. I always saw Dennis doing that..and that Elizabeth shares his Peace & Non GM FOOD

in Common says they were a match made for "Issues in Common" and that makes me wonder why you posted and then introduced "murder" into the thread?

Elizabeth Kucinich has a great Activist Background.....and I've not seen anything about her to be contrarian to her educational, life experience background that she wouldn't fit with Dennis.

[KoKo]

42. It might just be that both Eliabeth and Dennis really ARE

trying to live up to their IDEALS? Inspite of you trying to say she's involved in some "murder" you might know something about. That you are Implying...

[reddread]

43. Is post #35 invisible to you or is it a literacy thing?

"self indict"
being the key there, in no way could anyone read and misconstrue what I was saying about one of the most painful burdens my conscience carries.
please read AND comprehend. if you need it copied and pasted, let me know
the irony of course, is that the only Koko I know was a DK supporter way back.
you dont have a daughter that shreds on the mandolin and violin, do you?
course not.

[KoKo]

46. You didn't read my reply to you...and I'm not on this post all night reading every reply in thread

in real time. There's no way your "OP" or your insinuating Kucinich's wife into murder registered as anything but an attack on Kucinich and his wife.

I went to your post #35 and frankly couldn't make sense of it. Sorry about that...but, either your OP was some kind of way of posting about Kucinich in a negative way to get attention when in fact you support what he stood for....or you are doing something else.

I have always supported Kucinich ...which is exactly why I posted his wife's Bio.

I have no idea where you are coming from in your OP or Post #35.....because what I read was negative against both Kucinich and his wife, and I responded, accordingly, with my support for both after reading your OP.

[reddread]

47. cant win em all

the OP is DK's words, not mine.
so what exactly are you saying?
the sarcasm of the subject header turns you off?

[KoKo]

48. You were being sarcastic?

?????? It came across as an attack on Kucinich and implying some thing about Elzabeth and some murder? And, you felt I misread?

Whatever....

[reddread]

49. obviously

solidarity, etc

[Bluenorthwest]

64. I don't think it is obvious at all, I took your OP as an attack on Kuncinch, I like Dennis and

Elizabeth very much. Your OP assumes others know your point of view. We don't.

[LanternWaste]

55. We will of course, give your well-reasoned, well-cited editorial all the consideration

"He's still a buffoon..."

We will of course, give your well-reasoned, well-cited editorial all the consideration it indeed, warrants...

[Luminous Animal]

45. And Ms Clinton supported anti-flag desecration legislation.

[Arkana]

22. I'm no Kooch fan but this isn't an indication he's abandoned liberalism.

It just means he doesn't like the NSA shit the government's doing. Neither do I.

[KoKo]

39. I've Supported the Concept of "Department of Peace" in DC to consult with the

War Mongers, NSA and the encroaching MIC/Aligned with the Corporatists as a Push Back against More Wars and "Interventions" disguised as forerunners to war that we are now living with after the Bush Years.

That Dennis met someone with his Own Values is a sign of his CHARACTER...and NOT his WEAKNESS!

You GO....Elizabeth K!

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Fox News. No one else would have him.

[reddread]

32. speaking of lies, look at all of these!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/11/rupert-murdoch-hillary-clinton-and-politics-2016/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rupert-murdoch-loves-hillary-clinton/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/hillary-clinton-rupert-murdoch/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rupert-murdoch-2016-jeb-bush-paul-ryan-hillary-clinton

[whatchamacallit]

54. Right...

Last edited Thu Jul 10, 2014, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course when a well regarded DUer makes regular appearances on Fox, it's hunky dory.

[Tarheel_Dem]

56. That "well regarded DUer" doesn't make a name for himself by trashing Democrats.

[whatchamacallit]

58. Maybe your objections should be based on that

instead of venue. You know... less hypocritical and all...

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. Fuck Dennis Kucinich, whatever "the venue".

[reddread]

63. you do.

[arcane1]

31. Based on that post, he sounds like a DUer. One with whom I agree on this issue.

What that means for "Democrats" is a different issue.

[KoKo]

40. Dennis has always been pretty cool as a voice for "NEGOTIATION" & Not "WAR"

And we used to have a big contingent of those folks here on DU.

"Where did all the flowers go......long time passing....When Will it Ever End.........

[FiveGoodMen]

36. Thanks for volunteering

for the ignore list.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. Sound like a real Democrat to me.

FUCK THE NSA!!!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

52. he has betrayed the party just like Al Gore, Jimmy Carter and Gary Hart in denouncing the

greatly improved and greatly expanded surveillance state. REAL DEMOCRATS have the guts to tell those libertarians like those guys to take their Bill of Rights, their right to privacy and their U.S. Constitution and shove it up their ass!! We don't want it!! It is the people who must be accountable to the government!! - NOT the government who must be accountable to the people!! It's time all those libertarian asswipes learn that!!

[Oilwellian]

53. I totally get your sarcasm

Democrats were against illegal spying under Bush but many appear to be just fine with it while Obama does it. Just read DU to prove my point.

[SomethingFishy]

65. Congratulations. You have managed to confuse me so much I have no idea how to respond

to this.

A person saying that an exponential increase in spying on American citizens is no longer a "Democrat"? Can you please point me to the "rule book". You know the one that holds the rules about what a Democrat in the 21st century is supposed to support. Because if supporting the insane expansion of the NSA is a requirement then I guess I'm done.

[treestar]

67. It's another excuse to tar people who don't think the NSA is

really causing a great crisis of "spying on all Americans" as people who don't care for the 4th Amendment. False.

Dennis has maybe become an Eddie lover, I can't really tell from that completely.

[SomethingFishy]

69. "Eddie Lover"?

You claim that people are being tarred, and then you tar someone one sentence later.

I didn't realize that questioning the reach of authority made you a fan of "Eddie's".

[treestar]

70. What is good for the goose is good for the gander

Not letting them call me a boot licker without calling them an Eddie lover.

[Iggo]

68. Stir vigorously and often.