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RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:19 AM Jun 2014

Father Charged with Murder in Death of Toddler Left in Car.

We hear about them every year.

COBB COUNTY, Ga. —


The man who left his child in a hot car Wednesday has been charged with murder.

Justin Ross Harris was charged with felony murder and cruelty to children in the first degree. He was being held with no bond Thursday.

According to Cobb County police, Harris was supposed to take his 22-month-old to day care around 8:30 a.m. Police said the father forgot and left his child inside his vehicle while he went to work.

"Apparently, he forgot the child was in the car seat in the back of the automobile and went to work, left work sometime around 4 or 4:15," said Sgt. Dana Pierce of the Cobb County Police Department.

Dale Hamilton witnessed the emotional scene as a father realized that his child was in the car.

After leaving work and making the discovery, the father pulled into Akers Mill Square near Cumberland Mall.

"Laid his son on the ground, started doing CPR trying to resuscitate him. Apparently the child wasn't responding," Hamilton said.

Police said the man had to be physically restrained once it became clear his child was gone.

"There were a number of witnesses, passersby in the area who observed basically the father in a very distressed moment," Pierce said.

"He kept saying, ‘What have I done? What have I done?’ And that's all that I could ascertain that he was saying," Hamilton said.

The child was pronounced dead at the scene.

Link: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/father-who-left-child-hot-car-charged-murder/ngNzp/

96 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Father Charged with Murder in Death of Toddler Left in Car. (Original Post) RiffRandell Jun 2014 OP
Very sad yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #1
I was thinking the same. tosh Jun 2014 #8
A better solution would be a smart alarm that detected breathing in a hot parked car. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #10
I like this idea. surrealAmerican Jun 2014 #35
We need something for dogs too Politicalboi Jun 2014 #78
Even simpler would be a weight detector under the child seat jmowreader Jun 2014 #49
Another possibility: Orrex Jun 2014 #50
Another possibility.... peace13 Jun 2014 #63
That's also a good suggestion Orrex Jun 2014 #64
I agree, but don't know what the answer is. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #11
As awful as this was, it sounds like an accidental or at most negligent homicide. Tanuki Jun 2014 #2
I know. A tragedy all around. tosh Jun 2014 #5
All it takes is something to distract from a routine... JHB Jun 2014 #13
That was an excellent read. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #29
Sleep deprivation is a big part of it. Nothing wrecks your concentration faster Warpy Jun 2014 #76
An app for that would be nice. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #3
And I am not trying to diminish the pain of the situation, but an app would help busy parents... Tikki Jun 2014 #12
Or just putting something you'll be taking with you back with the child JHB Jun 2014 #19
absolutely... I don't know about men, but a woman would never leave a car without her purse renate Jun 2014 #87
I agree with you 100 percent yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #14
Already exist (as do non-app methods, as noted above) JHB Jun 2014 #20
Thank you yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #37
More. proverbialwisdom Jun 2014 #43
Another tragedy. proverbialwisdom Mar 2015 #96
I'll never understand how someone can forget their child is with them in the car. In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #4
it could happen to anyone with a brain because brains aren't perfect. unblock Jun 2014 #24
I've seen news reports about it many times. In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #25
Neither did many of the parents who've done it, until it happened to them. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #27
It really is sad for everyone involved. In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #30
I did it. Granted, it was only for less than a minute, but I seriously, seriously forgot I even msanthrope Jun 2014 #68
"It was only for less than a minute," In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #69
I don't get it either TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #86
"Apparently, he forgot" becomes murder? Orsino Jun 2014 #6
Neglient homicide maybe 2nd Degree Murder avebury Jun 2014 #58
Yes. Bullshit. Orsino Jun 2014 #66
Looks like 3rd degree at the most, from a Georgia lawyer definition muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #74
We had an entire subset of DU rage against a Good Samaritan earlier this week Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #7
Well, get used to that subset. It ain't going nowhere. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #17
not the same thing at all and shame on you for attempting to make it so. CBGLuthier Jun 2014 #18
How is it not? Neglect is neglect. Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #39
Nothing happened and you don't know those kids IVoteDFL Jun 2014 #48
A few years ago a father left his child in his car in Broolyn Park and the child died. Jenoch Jun 2014 #60
you should be damn proud of yourself. and of your family renate Jun 2014 #88
+1 not the same at all lunasun Jun 2014 #40
If someone had seen the child in the car, I'm certain they would have. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #41
You know what? Sissyk Jun 2014 #46
I was just thinking of that. 840high Jun 2014 #53
Another subset is conspicuously quiet too Boom Sound 416 Jun 2014 #70
Yes it is davidpdx Jun 2014 #90
Not to minimize this, but... cilla4progress Jun 2014 #9
From the Consumer Reports article linked above csziggy Jun 2014 #56
Yep. cilla4progress Jun 2014 #75
so tragic. Any decent day care or school should start calling immediately for no shows. Sunlei Jun 2014 #15
This isn't the responsiblity of a day care kiva Jun 2014 #22
this is absolutely something all day care providers should do. unblock Jun 2014 #26
If daycares want to have this a part of their business, kiva Jun 2014 #38
i get reminders from doctors and dentists a couple days ahead of my appointment unblock Jun 2014 #44
no, any business taking care of living beings should always check on no shows. a kid is not a pizza Sunlei Jun 2014 #45
I was thinking of this too. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #34
Terrible incident similar to this one occurred here... Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #16
I read an article once about a woman who was chatting on her cell phone and left tblue37 Jun 2014 #83
A tragic incident, but I think the DA way overcharged. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #21
I'm not trying to be argumentative, kiva Jun 2014 #31
I think the emotional guilt if it were a daycare worker and also purely accidental.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #36
+1. nt tblue37 Jun 2014 #85
You don't know what actually happened, do you? LisaL Jun 2014 #94
This isn't a case of felony murder. sinkingfeeling Jun 2014 #23
And you know this how? LisaL Jun 2014 #93
THINGS YOU CAN DO TO TRY TO AVOID THIS: unblock Jun 2014 #28
Excellent suggestions! theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #33
Terrific suggestions Orrex Jun 2014 #51
Excellent List BrotherIvan Jun 2014 #62
This would be my suggestion, too. phylny Jun 2014 #79
So very sad BrotherIvan Jun 2014 #80
The problem with the stuffed animal in the front seat is the same as the problem I have remembering tblue37 Jun 2014 #84
that's right. in a way it's amazing we don't lose more kids than we do. unblock Jun 2014 #91
'Felony murder?' I question this, elleng Jun 2014 #32
And reasoning like that is why so many are not avebury Jun 2014 #55
It appears not to have contained the prior planning elleng Jun 2014 #57
2nd Degree murder does not require prior planning. avebury Jun 2014 #59
I believe 2nd Degree murder does require intent, though. yellowcanine Jun 2014 #67
Agree. Where is the Mens Rea (the guilty mind)? Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2014 #81
Gene Weingarten's Pulitzer-Winning Feature, 'Fatal Distraction' Crabby Appleton Jun 2014 #42
wow -- that's quite a read fishwax Jun 2014 #73
This is just so sad. Sissyk Jun 2014 #47
you know a read a study about this, and it seems that while it is awful La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2014 #52
But you know that avebury Jun 2014 #54
If He Accidently Shot His Child otohara Jun 2014 #61
How can it be "felony murder" if the account is correct? yellowcanine Jun 2014 #65
felony murder is when a death occurs in the commission of a felony -- so I guess the felony here is fishwax Jun 2014 #72
maybe daycares need to call the parents if a Child doesn't show up JI7 Jun 2014 #71
That could happen to a lot of people. You think it could never be you but you never know. brewens Jun 2014 #77
Yet when a parent leaves a loaded gun within the reach of a child, tblue37 Jun 2014 #82
There might be more to the story. LisaL Jun 2014 #92
Oh God. Such a heartbreaking story, every time this happens. Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #89
Absolutely horrifying ... for everyone etherealtruth Jun 2014 #95
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. Very sad
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:25 AM
Jun 2014

Are we 100% sure that not having the kids in the front seat is better? Perhaps a better car seat for the front seat? I feel for this father. I know he was wrong, but murder?

tosh

(4,423 posts)
8. I was thinking the same.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:34 AM
Jun 2014

Child seat in back of car...might be part of the reason this happens so often.

Plus, we (collectively) are so mentally "busy" juggling so many different things in our heads all the time to the point of absent-mindedness where auto-pilot takes over.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
10. A better solution would be a smart alarm that detected breathing in a hot parked car.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:39 AM
Jun 2014

It should be possible to detect the changing CO2 concentration, along with the fact that the car is heating up and not running. Of course it would have to be some kind of very specific and identifiable alarm so people did not just ignore it.

surrealAmerican

(11,361 posts)
35. I like this idea.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

It might not even have to be something so involved as that. A simple alarm built into the child's car seat could prevent this sort of tragedy.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
78. We need something for dogs too
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:45 PM
Jun 2014

So maybe a inside motion and air detector in the car that sounds an alarm that says living being inside and calls your cell phone. This father should be punished, but murder is too harsh IMO. It wasn't like he was at a bar or partying and was a bad father.

jmowreader

(50,559 posts)
49. Even simpler would be a weight detector under the child seat
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:00 PM
Jun 2014

There's a specified place to put child seats in newer cars. Build a strain gage under it, and tie it to the car's computer. You would tare-out the seat upon installation. When you put a kid in the seat it would know; when you shut off the engine the car would speak "there's a child in the car seat."

Do babies produce enough CO2 to detect within a car?

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
50. Another possibility:
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:03 PM
Jun 2014

A smart alarm that distinctively rings the driver's phone if the phone moves, say, 20 feet from the car while the car seat is still buckled.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
63. Another possibility....
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

The day care center obviously was expecting the child. A courtesy call would have saved a life. I'm not relieving the father of the responsibilities here. Just wishing that someone would have made the call.

People are so distracted today by many things. A simple reminder on the computer bag, or telephone....say a baby shoe tied on, would remind the parent that a sleepy baby was still in the car. Funny how folks rarely forget the phone.

My heart goes out to this family. Their lives are changed forever.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
64. That's also a good suggestion
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

We've never had our kids in daycare, but I've asked a number of coworkers, and I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that about 60% of them report that their daycare centers do call if a child doesn't show up at the site on an expected day.

I understand the logistical constraints that might prevent some sites from offering that service, but it would be great if it could be implemented.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
11. I agree, but don't know what the answer is.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014

Unless he doesn't normally bring the child to day care? I've seen it happen quite a few times in GA but statistically around the country it's probably considered too rare for a front seat design.

You would think his child might cross his mind at some point during the day and he might of realized; I hate to judge as what he is feeling must be indescribable.

I'm thinking his attorney will probably plea to a lesser charge.

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
2. As awful as this was, it sounds like an accidental or at most negligent homicide.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:26 AM
Jun 2014

I don't see how you could "forget" that the child was in there, but that is what the police said happened. It's not like those cases where the parent deliberately leaves a child in the hot car while shopping at the mall or gambling at a casino. I would think that a charge of murder would require intent to harm. Poor little kid. Terrible thing to have happened.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
13. All it takes is something to distract from a routine...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014
Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

***
The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

Last year it happened three times in one day, the worst day so far in the worst year so far in a phenomenon that gives no sign of abating. The facts in each case differ a little, but always there is the terrible moment when the parent realizes what he or she has done, often through a phone call from a spouse or caregiver. This is followed by a frantic sprint to the car. What awaits there is the worst thing in the world.

Each instance has its own macabre signature. One father had parked his car next to the grounds of a county fair; as he discovered his son’s body, a calliope tootled merrily beside him. Another man, wanting to end things quickly, tried to wrestle a gun from a police officer at the scene. Several people -- including Mary Parks of Blacksburg -- have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat.
***
“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Do read the whole article. It's the same process that can cause you to leave your keys in the car or lock yourself out of your home. No one wants to think it's possible that it might happen with a kid instead.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
76. Sleep deprivation is a big part of it. Nothing wrecks your concentration faster
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jun 2014

Most parents I know say that sleep is the first thing to go when the kids start to arrive.

Unless there was clear and chronic neglect, I can't see how this is a crime. It's tragic, yes, and it will wreck his whole life and family. I don't see a crime here, just a terrible accident.

Tikki

(14,557 posts)
12. And I am not trying to diminish the pain of the situation, but an app would help busy parents...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014

Something that would make a loud enough sound until the parent releases the child to day care.


Tikki

JHB

(37,160 posts)
19. Or just putting something you'll be taking with you back with the child
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:50 AM
Jun 2014

Purse, briefcase, coat, anything, put in the back so that you have to go where the child is, and not just get out of the car and go onto whatever you're doing.

Less dire example: I commute by train regularly, so I'm accustomed to only having what I have with me on my seat and lap. Occasionally I'll use the same train to travel to a relative's house, with luggage in the rack above my seat. After the second time I hopped off the train without my luggage, I started tying something to it that would dangle down -- nothing that would bother me or anyone while seated, but when I got up for my stop it'd be in my face. Just a reminder not to simply act on "this is my stop" reflex.

renate

(13,776 posts)
87. absolutely... I don't know about men, but a woman would never leave a car without her purse
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:47 AM
Jun 2014

That's an excellent idea. If you need to swipe a card to get into work, maybe, that would be something to put in the back seat when you're not following your usual routine. Or if you drive an automatic, your left shoe.

It's been many years since I dropped a child off at day care but I don't blame this father one bit. Parenting a young child is EXHAUSTING and lack of sleep can really mess with a person's brain function.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
14. I agree with you 100 percent
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

If somebody could come up with an APP that asks if you remembered your child in the back seat may just save a ton of baby's lives. I love the idea and think that they could easy make one and even if they sell it for a couple bucks, it would be well worth it.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
43. More.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:36 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.amazon.com/The-First-Years-IAlert-Black/dp/B00A8EZQ0M

Customer Questions & Answers

Q: How does the device connect to the internet to send alerts? If it's connected to the bluetooth on my phone and I leave the car, doesn't do much good?
A: We actually bought it to evaluate the technology (http://smallonessafety.com/our-story.html). We were developing our own technology (SOS, coming July) to remind you that you have a baby in the car: http://smallonessafety.com. Consumer Reports didn't have much good to say about the iAlert. I think they are going to stop making the iAlert. Bottom line: it doesn't work.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/09/the-first-years-true-fit-ialert-car-seat/index.htm

Published: September 19, 2013 09:00 AM
by Michelle Tsai


An average of 38 children die each year from heat stroke after being left in a hot car. It is a tragic mistake that can happen to anyone, particularly when someone alters his normal schedule. Despite public awareness campaigns, it has been difficult to prevent these horrible accidents, but an innovative new child safety seat may help.

<>

Our preliminary findings are consistent with a study previously done by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia that found similar technologies unreliable. What’s more, the True Fit IAlert currently retails for a $299.99, exclusively through Amazon. That’s between $70 and $100 more than the standard True Fit C680 without the IAlert technology. A big price difference for a feature we’re not so sure of.

Rather than go the high-tech route, here are a few no-cost ways to remember your precious cargo in the back seat.

* Simple rule: Never leave a child unattended in a vehicle, not even for a minute. In addition to being dangerous, it is against the law in many states.

* Check the car to make sure that all occupants leave the vehicle or are carried out when unloading. If you lock the door with a key, rather than with a remote, it would force that one last look in the car before leaving it.

* Always lock your car and keep keys and remotes away from children.

* To serve as a reminder, keep a stuffed animal on the front passenger seat when carrying a child in the backseat.

* Place something in the backseat that you would need, such as a purse, briefcase or cell phone, when transporting kids.

* Have a plan that your childcare provider will call you if your child does not show up as scheduled.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
96. Another tragedy.
Sat Mar 14, 2015, 02:55 AM
Mar 2015
http://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboro/index.ssf/2015/03/da_death_of_baby_left_in_car_a.html

DA: Death of baby left in car at Intel was 'tragic and unintentional accident'

By Rebecca Woolington | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on March 13, 2015 at 8:25 PM, updated March 13, 2015 at 8:45 PM

unblock

(52,243 posts)
24. it could happen to anyone with a brain because brains aren't perfect.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

What kind of person forgets a baby?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

...

“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
27. Neither did many of the parents who've done it, until it happened to them.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jun 2014

Having sleeping children in the back seat is a big part of it as is exhaustion and breaks in routines.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
68. I did it. Granted, it was only for less than a minute, but I seriously, seriously forgot I even
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

had a kid one tired morning.

In_The_Wind

(72,300 posts)
69. "It was only for less than a minute,"
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jun 2014

I don't consider that a problem.

Let me explain where I'm coming from: I was an investigator for Child Protective Services. From my point of view there is nothing as important as the life, safety, happiness and in short the total wellbeing of a child.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
86. I don't get it either
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:03 AM
Jun 2014

I'd never ever forget my dog in the car, I can't imagine forgetting your child. I just don't understand how anyone can become unconscious to who is in their car. Bad enough that most people seem to drive as though they're a passenger.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
58. Neglient homicide maybe 2nd Degree Murder
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:38 PM
Jun 2014

Second degree murder does not require pre-planning. A reasonable person would not leave a child in a car for hours. A reasonable person would know that leaving a child in a locked car on a hot day can result in the death of a child,

Leaving a child in the child is child endangerment which is a crime. Loss of life in the commission of a crime can result in murder charges. The child died as a result of a criminal act on the part of the father ergo he can be charged with murder. I think that 2nd Degree is the most probable charge and negligent homicide at a minimum.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
66. Yes. Bullshit.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jun 2014

On a par with kids being tried as adults.

Unless some evidence of criminal intent has been uncovered.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,320 posts)
74. Looks like 3rd degree at the most, from a Georgia lawyer definition
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:25 PM
Jun 2014
Chances are you’ve watched a movie or the news and have seen a clip of a person in court and have heard a jury read the words “we the jury find the defendant guilty of first-degree murder.” But what is first-degree murder? This is considered the most severe type of murder because it is planned and was done on purpose. For example, a husband plans for months to kill his wife by burning down their house one night while she is asleep.

Second-degree murder often results in less serious penalties because the person acted unusually and beyond their normal self control due to an intense situation. This may occur after a man finds his wife having an affair with their marriage therapist and is so enraged that he kills his therapist right then and there. This would also be called voluntary manslaughter.

The last type of murder is in the third-degree and is involuntary manslaughter. Many times, drunk drivers who have killed another driver or person on a highway are charged with involuntary manslaughter. While the person was negligent by driving drunk, this person did not intend to kill another human being.

http://www.georgiacriminaldefense.com/georgiamurder.html


This is negligent but with no intent at all.
 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
7. We had an entire subset of DU rage against a Good Samaritan earlier this week
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:31 AM
Jun 2014

Because she "narced" on a negligent parent. I wish someone had reported this to the police in time to save this child.

What a preventable tragedy.

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
39. How is it not? Neglect is neglect.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:19 AM
Jun 2014

Those kids in the apartment could have experienced any number of emergencies at any time. Emergencies that require immediate adult intervention, such as choking or fire or poison / chemical ingestion. Or a fall or other traumatic injury.



IVoteDFL

(417 posts)
48. Nothing happened and you don't know those kids
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:00 PM
Jun 2014

I'm normally just a lurker here, I don't often feel like I have a point to make that someone else hasn't already made, but some people here just don't seem to get it. I grew up in a working family who often had trouble keeping an eye on me 100% of the time. I also hate to keep this damn topic going, but since some can't let it die and it amazes me how many people here, of all places, just don't understand what it's like to come from a family that HAS to work. Now that I think about it the last time I posted here it was on a different topic about denigrating the poor. Sigh.

My mom worked days and my dad worked overnights. Someone was always home with me, but they had to sleep sometime. The worst thing I ever did was that I tried to make Banana Bread by myself when I was like 5. I don't remember much, but my mom said she came home to a horrible mess, but I'd otherwise done a good job! I was pretty proud of myself. I cooked for me and my dad pretty regularly after that, though I did take better care to clean up.

I never had a lot of supervision, even when we lost our home and had to move into my grandparents house. Everyone worked. I saw myself to and home from school by 3rd grade I was a crossing guard and I took other kids home, I did my homework without being asked, I took the dog for a walk, I made dinners for the entire family. By the time I was 10 years old, I was the best cook in the house. Easily.


I like to think that I'm a lovely young independent woman now, and I'm currently pursuing a career as a chef. Who knows if I would love to cook so much if I hadn't been left to my own devices when I was young? I wouldn't trade my upbringing for ANYTHING in this world. I love the way I turned out. I look at a lot of people in my age group and they cannot say the same thing about themselves. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or say that I'm flawless, on the contrary I've also been in some trouble, but I'm happy with myself and that is a relief to me. I also love my working parents and grandparents fiercely and if anyone had tried to take me away I'm sure I would have been devastated beyond belief.

Edited to add that by the time my grandma was ten years old she was already built like a football player from doing farm work and had already helped deliver at least two of her younger siblings.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
60. A few years ago a father left his child in his car in Broolyn Park and the child died.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:53 PM
Jun 2014

He was not prosecuted for the death of his child.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
41. If someone had seen the child in the car, I'm certain they would have.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:26 AM
Jun 2014

I'm sure the father would have appreciated the call as he wouldn't be in jail facing murder charges and his son would still be alive.

I have enough faith in the human race to believe had someone noticed, they would have called.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
46. You know what?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:10 PM
Jun 2014

I bet the father wishes someone had seen the child still in the car all alone and called the police. He would have been very grateful that someone saved the life of his child!

This is not the same thing AT ALL!

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
90. Yes it is
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 03:43 AM
Jun 2014

It reminds me of the CSI episode in season 4 where they find a baby in the car. At the end of the episode Catherine is sitting in the car with the air conditioner off watching the temperature monitor as it went up to like 124.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
56. From the Consumer Reports article linked above
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

I like these two suggestions:
* To serve as a reminder, keep a stuffed animal on the front passenger seat when carrying a child in the backseat.

* Place something in the backseat that you would need, such as a purse, briefcase or cell phone, when transporting kids.

Either would be a reminder to a busy person.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
22. This isn't the responsiblity of a day care
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jun 2014

or a school - how many people 'forget' to call to say their child won't be there or that they are running late? No, this one is on the parents.

unblock

(52,243 posts)
26. this is absolutely something all day care providers should do.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:05 AM
Jun 2014

yes, they will certainly get a lot of "sorry i forgot to call you" answers, but they absolutely should do something to try to potentially save the lives of their customers.

yes, whoever is with the child obviously should be responsible for the child, but why on earth would we say no one should help?

unblock

(52,243 posts)
44. i get reminders from doctors and dentists a couple days ahead of my appointment
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:05 PM
Jun 2014

and pizza delivery places sometimes call back for confirmation.

i see this a day care provider calling if someone unexpectedly doesn't show up as similar.
it's just good business, even if it didn't have the potentially life-saving aspect.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
45. no, any business taking care of living beings should always check on no shows. a kid is not a pizza
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:10 PM
Jun 2014

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
34. I was thinking of this too.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jun 2014

I know day care can be a financial burden, but when the children are picked up, a staff member could ask if the child will be returning the next day, and if the parent answers "yes" and they don't show, a designated staff member goes down a list and makes calls. A child may be home sick, but it's one idea even though I agree it's not their responsibility.

They could charge an extra mandatory fee.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
16. Terrible incident similar to this one occurred here...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:46 AM
Jun 2014

the parent was on the cell phone the whole time. Cognitive dissonance can be deadly.

tblue37

(65,391 posts)
83. I read an article once about a woman who was chatting on her cell phone and left
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:43 AM
Jun 2014

her baby on a bus. I also read about a woman who left her baby in his carseat on the roof of her car when she drove off. The baby's carseat protected him from injury when it fell from the roof of the car, and another driver found the child by the side of the road.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
21. A tragic incident, but I think the DA way overcharged.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jun 2014

Negligent homicide at most. And probably a suspended sentence and probation as a punishment.

If it was truly an accident--and believe it or not, many of these incidents are completely freak accidents with no malice intended--the emotional punishment and guilt that the parent will carry for the rest of his life will be more than punishment enough.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
31. I'm not trying to be argumentative,
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:09 AM
Jun 2014

but I have an issue with 'the parent will punish him/herself for the rest of their life' because we do not feel the same about other crimes and other people who are responsible for the death of children.

If this was a daycare worker who forgot to take child out of a van after a field trip, we wouldn't say that; if a school bus driver didn't realize a child was left in the bus and he or she died, we wouldn't say it. We tend to see the death of a child that is the fault of a parent as an accident, but if anyone else is involved that person is charged with a crime. Assuming it is an accident, I cannot imagine anyone not feeling lifelong guilt if they caused the death of a child (or anyone, for that matter).

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
36. I think the emotional guilt if it were a daycare worker and also purely accidental....
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

....would also be pretty overwhelming.

unblock

(52,243 posts)
28. THINGS YOU CAN DO TO TRY TO AVOID THIS:
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/what-parent-leaves-child-in-broiling-car_n_3497956.html

So what to do, systematically, to lessen the chances of such simple but fatal errors? Kids and Cars sums up their suggestions with the acronym BE SAFE:

Back seat: Put something in the back seat whenever you strap a child in, so you have to open the back door, or at least turn around to find that item, when you get out of the car. Your handbag or briefcase, cellphone or employee badge.
Every child should be correctly restrained in the back seat.

Stuffed animal: Keep a brightly colored one in the car seat when your child isn’t there. Then move it from the car seat to the front seat after you strap your child in, to remind you when your baby is in the back seat.

Ask your baby sitter or child-care provider to call you within 10 minutes if your child hasn't arrived on time.

Focus on driving: Avoid cellphone calls and text-messaging while driving.

Every time you park your vehicle -- every single time -- open the back door to make sure no one has been left behind.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
62. Excellent List
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:11 PM
Jun 2014

I have also heard some people literally take off a shoe and put it in the back seat.

Parents are so overtired I can absolutely believe this. My poor friend has a four year-old that can't sleep wean off of co-sleeping and keeps them up all night. The baby sleeps a little better than the toddler but they wake up at different times so it's constant. Both parents are about ready to have a nervous breakdown and on the brink of divorce because they can't sleep. I have shared your list with them to make sure this does not happen. If you're a walking zombie, accidents like this are possible.

phylny

(8,380 posts)
79. This would be my suggestion, too.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:49 PM
Jun 2014

There are times I'll put my car keys on top of something (even if it's in the fridge) that I need to take into work the next day. As soon as I look for my car keys, there it is, and I remember.

Today I was actually thinking that it was so freaking hot here in Virginia, and I was pleasantly surprised we hadn't heard of one of these incidents yet all summer, and now, here we are. Poor family.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
80. So very sad
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

I thought the shoe trick was a good idea. Perhaps also an alarm on one's phone, especially if that's something you do every day. Anything to help people remember. So sorry for this parent and I don't agree with criminal charges in this case as it truly seems like a horrible accident.

tblue37

(65,391 posts)
84. The problem with the stuffed animal in the front seat is the same as the problem I have remembering
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:58 AM
Jun 2014

to take my reusable canvas bags in with me when I go shopping for groceries. I actually keep a bunch of them in the front passenger seat, but I am always thinking about a million things, and I never realize they are still out in the car until I get to the checkout lane and the person starts bagging my groceries. I have gotten better about it, but I still forget them at least half the time, and probably a bit more than half the time.

Modern life is simply not what we were evolved for. We cannot juggle so many issues, commitments, problems, etc., without dropping something.

Remember several years ago, when day planners first became all the rage? They had whole stores devoted to selling nothing but day planners, and those stores would actually have seminars, lasting from an hour to even 8 hours on a given day (usually a Saturday) to teach purchasers how to efficiently schedule their lives with their day planners!

Very little of our minds are actually conscious. Most of what goes on in there is taken care of by what are sometimes called subconscious zombie programs. Unless we are extremely diligent, the subconscious zombie programs lead us by the nose in pretty much any situation where we have created a routine.

Even the parent usually responsible for dropping the kid off at daycare has only been doing so for a short while when the child is a baby or toddler, compared to how long he/she has been following a completely different routine; and both parents are going to be stressed and sleep deprived under the best of circumstances. It would take very little for those subconscious zombie programs to reassert primacy and cause the parent to forget the baby in the back seat.

If the parent is the one who doesn't usually drop off the child, then it is almost a miracle if he/she doesn't forget that the kid is in the back seat!

unblock

(52,243 posts)
91. that's right. in a way it's amazing we don't lose more kids than we do.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 07:48 AM
Jun 2014

add to that a normally talkative kid who this time just happens to be tired and takes a nap and this time makes no noise.

the other day mrs. unblock asked me to stop by the school on the way to work to pick up mini-unblock's meds (it being the last day of school). i got in the car and took my usual commute and just continued to drive to work, on auto-pilot. blew past the turn off to the school without a moment's thought. didn't realize it until i walked into work and started to think about my tasks for the day.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
55. And reasoning like that is why so many are not
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:29 PM
Jun 2014

held accountable for criminal acts like this and make no mistake it is a criminal act. You can debate at what level of charge should be file but he does deserve to spend time behind bars.

elleng

(130,945 posts)
57. It appears not to have contained the prior planning
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:34 PM
Jun 2014

usually required for 'felony murder,' depending of course on the jurisdiction.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
59. 2nd Degree murder does not require prior planning.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:43 PM
Jun 2014

Prosecutors generally start with the highest chage possible with lesser included charges (call it a shot gun approach). Starting out with 1st Degree murder also might help them in obtaining a plea agreement with prison time.

I would have no problem with a 2nd Degree Murder Charge but could live with negligent homicide.

Negligent homicide is a pretty cut and dry charge. The Prosecutor would have no problems proving the father was negligent. The death occurred as a result of an existing illegal act - child endangerment. Laws frequently allow for a murder charge if death occurs as a result of a criminal act. This might be why they are starting with 1st Degree Murder.

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
67. I believe 2nd Degree murder does require intent, though.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

For example, two people get into an argument in a bar, one guy pulls out a gun and shoots the other. Or a road rage incident where someone shoots into an occupied car and hits a passenger instead of the offending driver he was supposedly aiming at. Those could be 2nd Degree murder. The way the story reads here this would not even be a close call. For a prosecutor to go for a charge which is not justified by the facts in the hope of getting a guilty plea to a lesser charge is prosecutorial misconduct and could be a breach of judicial ethics resulting in criminal or administrative sanctions against the prosecutor.

Second Degree Murder: Definition
Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html#sthash.lH2zecSH.dpuf

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
81. Agree. Where is the Mens Rea (the guilty mind)?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:31 AM
Jun 2014

There isn't any in the "child endangerment" alleged by the poster up-thread and there isn't any in the manslaughter allegation.

Child endangerment also requires an intentional act - leaving the kid alone in the car intentionally in this instance.

There's no intent in any part of this chain. And you need one to get to the other.

Crabby Appleton

(5,231 posts)
42. Gene Weingarten's Pulitzer-Winning Feature, 'Fatal Distraction'
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Two decades ago, this was relatively rare. But in the early 1990s, car-safety experts declared that passenger-side front airbags could kill children, and they recommended that child seats be moved to the back of the car; then, for even more safety for the very young, that the baby seats be pivoted to face the rear. If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

...

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
47. This is just so sad.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:16 PM
Jun 2014

And in today's hectic lifestyle can happen too easily.

If for some reason my husband took our son to day care when he was a wee one, I always called him when he arrived at work just to verify he had dropped the kiddo off. It wasn't that I didn't trust him, it was that it was not his normal routine.

It never bothered him that I called either. We were parents that both had to work, and needed to work together for the safety of our child.

I feel for this father and the child's family.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
52. you know a read a study about this, and it seems that while it is awful
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:12 PM
Jun 2014

there really are no predictors to who will do this (across bad and good parents, gender, race, SES etc.). it's likely that this is an mistake that occurs really really accidentally.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
54. But you know that
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 01:25 PM
Jun 2014

if the child had been home and got ahold of a loaded gun and shot himself or someone else the father would not face criminal charges.

It shows the hypocricy of our society that the father would face prison time in one situation and not the other.

It is horrible what that child went through.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
61. If He Accidently Shot His Child
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

there would be no murder charges, maybe no charges at all.

That's how we roll in Murika when it comes to guns/children

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
65. How can it be "felony murder" if the account is correct?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:39 PM
Jun 2014

Unless there is more to the story this is at most child endangerment and negligent homicide.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
72. felony murder is when a death occurs in the commission of a felony -- so I guess the felony here is
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:45 PM
Jun 2014

the child endangerment, and the felony murder comes from the death occurring in the commission of that felony.

JI7

(89,250 posts)
71. maybe daycares need to call the parents if a Child doesn't show up
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

i'm not sure how all daycares work. if there are no regular schedules they can do something like require parents to call on the day they want to drop the child off. and if a child doesn't show up they contact the parent again to see if they are still coming.

for kids who have regular attendence they can call the parents if the child doesn't show up before a certain time.

maybe make some device that you can keep on yourself such as car keys which will start to beep if another device which is attached to the baby seat is not removed after a certain time. the one attached to the baby seat is required to strap a child in and to remove them.



brewens

(13,589 posts)
77. That could happen to a lot of people. You think it could never be you but you never know.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:32 PM
Jun 2014

I don't have kids but I don't know how many times I've set out to go by the post office and drop something off on my way to work, forgot about it and noticed the mail sitting in the seat next to me. Or meaning to go to the bank on my way home, once on the way, I forget and remember as I'm walking up my steps. It's too easy to revert to the usual drive like you do every other morning or afternoon.

i'm sure a woman did exactly the same thing a few years back. Her husband usually dropped the kid off at day care. She was in her office when it dawned on her what she had done if I remember right. It was too late that time too. I feel sorry for anyone that has something like that accidentally happen. It's not like he intentionally did it and was in the bar drinking. His marriage is probably over and his life is ruined now.

tblue37

(65,391 posts)
82. Yet when a parent leaves a loaded gun within the reach of a child,
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:37 AM
Jun 2014

resulting deaths are considered to be no more than "tragic accidents" rather than negligent homicide or murder.

They are obviously overcharging this poor sap. Involuntary manslaughter is the most I can imagine.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
92. There might be more to the story.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jun 2014

Thankfully police is investigating rather than accepting this as a tragic accident.

""Much has changed about the circumstances leading up to the death of this 22-month-old since it was first reported," Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce told CNN. He would not elaborate, citing an ongoing investigation, but his words made it clear this was not just another case of a young life left and lost to heat exposure in a hot car."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/?sr=google_news

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
95. Absolutely horrifying ... for everyone
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:38 AM
Jun 2014

Sadly, we hear this story every year ... it is terrifying.

This is tragic ... Unless the DA knows something we don't ... the charges against this father are inappropriate.

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