The wailing on the 911 call looks bad for Zimmerman

[Enrique]

First of all, it's almost certainly not Zimmerman. A voice expert says it's not him. The surveillance tape in the police station undercuts the idea it might have been Zimmerman. Look how casual everyone is, especially Zimmerman himself. Just moments ago he was wailing away the way we hear on the video? This big dude who worked as a bouncer, who once assaulted a police officer, and who had a gun in his hand was crying for help like that?

No, it was Trayvon making those terrified noises. And Zimmerman shot the boy who was crying for help like that.

And then there's the fact that the police tried to get a witness to change their story about who was wailing. That looks really bad...

[uponit7771]

1. After hearing that tape I damn near cried at work, it's horrific sounding to me cause I know so many

...other teenage black males who sound just like Trayvon....I knew it was Trayvon...with the under-pronounced p that ran into the m in me...

I pray justice is served and mercy administered.

[janedum]

20. And to think, Zimmerman's dad WANTS him to get off scott-free! After TORTURING Trayvon.

[jpak]

2. So why, oh why - can anyone who assaulted a police officer get to carry a conceeal weapon?

Only in GOP/NRA Gun Nut Land

yup

[freshwest]

5. Someone said 'Cowboyism.' Wild west movies had plenty of psycho's with guns.

Lot of John Wayne wannabes in both those groups, at least the older ones. Guess the younger ones were brought up on shows, movies and video games like Cops, Starship Troopers and Mortal Kombat.

Lack of respect for others and a hyped up sense of kill or be killed entitlement are among the themes there, and not taking time to reflect, just reacting. From the number of media trophisms the family has put out in the media, they know the dog whistles.

[Mariana]

6. Because he wasn't prosecuted, so he wasn't convicted.

There may well have been shenanigans that caused the charges to be dropped, but they were dropped. As far as the law is concerned, he is not guilty. We can't punish people for being accused of committing a crime, and we shouldn't.

[Atypical Liberal]

10. Exactly.

We can't punish people for being accused of committing a crime, and we shouldn't.

Great post.

[freshwest]

11. True, but when you take the totality of charges even if dropped, he's unstable. I don't know if any

Of the states with CCW ask for anything more than a criminal background check. Some would say asking them to fulfill some sort of mental health requirement would be an intrusion into freedom of thought. But we let the media Goebbels intrude there everyday to get our emotions riled up, like Zimmerman was.

But as far as I know, the defenders of the second really do want the sale, possession and use of firearms to be exactly as it was in the days it was set to paper. Just a matter of commerce, like buying a screwdriver. Their argument is always set that way, 'guns don't kill people, people kill people.' No shit, Sherlock, I haven't heard of any bears in the woods shooting people, not yet, anyway.

The example is brought up that a person could kill another with something else, a hammer, a kitchen knife, an axe, whatever. But those tools have more than one function, guns have no other purpose but to kill. Honestly, do you saw wood with gunfire?

I don't want a society where every action a person does is circumspect to some political consensus of who is and isn't competent, etc. But IMHO, the ALEC push to have these laws enacted in every state, and their fear mongering meme, Obama is coming for your guns! is really about preparing for violent revolution, which will open to the door to outright strongman fascists. They've played Americans like a fiddle.

[Mariana]

28. I don't like Florida's gun laws.

I don't like laws anywhere that legalize this behavior. I don't like that someone can do what Zimmerman did - FFS, going out with his gun looking for a "bad guy" he could legally shoot was his fucking hobby! He's not the only one, either, there are more like him. Who knows how many "justifiable homicides" are like this one, where the shooter deliberately created the circumstances so that he could get to kill someone and not go to prison for it.

It doesn't matter. He hasn't been convicted of anything. The accusations can't be used to deprive him of his rights - and, whether we like it or not, in Florida that includes the right to carry a gun.

[pnwmom]

52. They should have made dropping the charges conditional upon his agreeing

not to own a gun.

I know someone this happened to in a domestic violence case.

[Atypical Liberal]

9. Simple - he was not CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW.

In the United States, we have a concept of innocent until proven guilty. People are not penalized because of mere suspicion or even arrest.

Most people here are like myself and dead-set against authoritarian bullshit like suspension of Habeus Corpus, extrarodinary rendition, prisoners held indefinitely at places like Guantanamo, secret no-fly lists, and the executive privilege to execute even American citizens without due process of law.

These are hallmark progressive ideals.

[jeff47]

12. Because he did not assault anyone

Have to be convicted for it to count. At least in regards to things like CCW permits.

[uppityperson]

37. Wrong. Just because you aren't convicted in a court doesn't mean it didn't happen.

That is for your subject line. For your message, yes, you have to be convicted for CCW permit to be pulled.

[jeff47]

50. So you agree with me but I'm wrong?

As far as the law is concerned, Zimmerman has never harmed anyone. Whether that's actually true is irrelevant when it comes to how the government treats Zimmerman.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. They need protection from their victims.

[janedum]

21. His FATHER IS "JUDGE" Zimmerman, that's why he can do whatever he damn well pleases, including KILL!

[Lasher]

26. No, he's not a judge.

Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered "judges" and do not possess trial jurisdiction.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/robert-j-zimmerman-trayvon-shooters-dad-a-magistrate-in-virginia-court-system.php

[freshwest]

30. In his application for sheriff's academy and excuse for his arrest record, Z uses the term 'judge.'

Magistrate judge is what he wrote, along with a reference to his mother's work as a court clerk.

The term is used in his own words here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002504626#op

Why are you objecting so much to the term judge?

[Lasher]

31. The title, 'magistrate judge' has been widely used to describe Robert Zimmerman

Zimmerman has claimed the title, magistrate judge himself. But just as a Lieutenant Colonel is not a Colonel, it is misleading to characterize a magistrate judge as a judge.

In the United States federal courts, magistrate judges are appointed to assist United States district court judges in the performance of their duties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_magistrate_judge

It should be further noted that Zimmerman is a retired Virginia Supreme Court magistrate. As you can see in the Wikipedia article I linked above, there are differences among the states in this respect.

I therefore defer to Kristi Wright, spokesperson for the Department of Legislative and Public Relations in Virginia. She refers to Zimmerman as a retired magistrate (not even a magistrate judge) and goes on to bluntly say that Virginia magistrates are not considered judges.

[freshwest]

34. No offense, but irrelevant to the thrust of her post, which perhaps you missed.

But it's more about a person in authority, or their kids, getting away with killing, not a specific word. Perhaps she will come back and take your correction to heart, I'm not sure why you pointed it out. This is not a court of law nor a military tribunal. It seems your citation is related to your life experience. Perhaps the term has more meaning to you, and I'm not being facetious or criticizing. Still, we managed to bump this thread. n/t

[Lasher]

35. I made it pretty clear why I pointed it out.

A judge is more powerful than a magistrate. And so his perceived potential for sinister behavior is exaggerated by calling him a judge when he's not. Words matter and so does our collective credibility.

How do you think my citation seems related to my life experience? Please elaborate.

[freshwest]

36. Sorry, but I've lost interest in this altogther. Going by example only. Let it go, okay? n/t

[janedum]

45. The TROLL KNEW what my point was. I just ignored him.

[freshwest]

48. With 18,666 posts, not a troll. So let's get back on topic.

I see your point and feel the outrage and am also not interested in the esoteric importance of single words that can divert a thread or as a technicality.

Everyone's mind works differently, so that's his right. He thinks he has a point, I don't, it doesn't make him a troll.

I am less interested in Zimmerman and his collection of family and stooges than Wolfinger and the rest of these characters. There's definitely something seriously rotten there, and it needs to be cleaned out for the good of the people of Florida... and other states, as well.

[Catherina]

32. Father says he was a magistrate judge. They have enough power to subpoena Twitter on Wikileaks

It's hard to put any credence in anything coming from a Zimmerman's mouth at this point but if true that Robert Zimmerman was a Chief Magistrate Judge/Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court, that puts him a little higher.

These guys aren't powerless clerks just handling routine traffic tickets as some people have tried to paint them. Here's just one example

On December 14, a magistrate judge in the Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria, issued an order requiring Twitter to provide information pertaining to several subscribers who have been associated with WikiLeaks in the past. The order seeks a variety of information about the account holders, including all IP addresses from which the subscribers have tweeted from November 1, 2009 to the present and identifying information concerning anyone with whom they have communicated through Twitter’s private messaging feature. The order was issued pursuant to the Stored Communications Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2703, which allows the government to seek a court order requiring disclosure of customer information from an electronic services provider upon a showing of “reasonable grounds” to believe that the records “are relevant and material to an ongoing criminal investigation.” There are very likely other sealed orders against Google, Facebook, and other e-mail or social networking providers seeking additional information about these individuals.

The ACLU and Electric Frontier Foundation represent one of the targeted individuals, Birgitta Jonsdottir, a member of the Parliament of Iceland. We have filed a motion to vacate the order to Twitter, and a motion to unseal the government’s application for the Twitter order, as well as materials related to any similar orders to other ISPs. The motions were heard on February 15, 2011.

...

On March 11, 2011, the motion to set aside the Twitter order and motion to unseal similar orders to other ISPs were denied by the Magistrate Judge. We appealed to the District Court, which on November 10, 2011 ruled that the government can collect the private records of three Twitter users as part of its investigation into WikiLeaks. The court also refused to unseal or publicly list all orders and other court documents relating to the parties in the case, including orders that may have been sent to other companies besides Twitter. We have appealed.

Court Documents (click link to view .pdf)

https://acluva.org/7364/in-re-%C2%A72703d-orders/

Earlier someone at DU posted that Magistrate Judges in Virginia mostly handle traffic tickets and it's a low-paying position of about $36,000/yr.

This isn't true. It's not relevant to your post but I'm just throwing this up here since I have the page up and want to add this to my journal for future reference.

The salary range for a Virginia Magistrate Judge is between $128,000 to $179,567 a year, depending on the area.

http://www1.salary.com/VA/Judge-Magistrate-salary.html

[Lasher]

46. Please consider my reply #31 so that I can limit repitition.

Here is a direct link to it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002510511#post31

As I noted in that reply, Robert Zimmerman is a retired Virginia Commonwealth Supreme Court magistrate and might be using the title, 'magistrate judge' improperly. But what the heck, it looks better on a resume.

You have cited a case from a US District Court, which is part of the federal justice system. There appear to be significant differences between Virginia court magistrates and federal magistrate judges. Do you think you might find some common ground in your prior discussion if these differences are taken more into account?

FYI, in my state's court system they are called magistrates, not magistrate judges or judges. There is pending legislation to set all their salaries at $57,500

http://www.wvrecord.com/news/242455-leaders-urge-passage-of-magistrate-salary-equalization-bill

[markpkessinger]

40. Nevertheless, he's well-connected ...

... to local judiciary and law enforcement. I think that's the larger point to be made.

[Lasher]

51. I think that's true.

Although he moved to Florida after retiring from Virginia, it's reasonable to assume he's still connected. Although state laws vary, he would at least have experience in how things work. I think he has a law degree but I'm not sure of that.

[yardwork]

3. The 911 tapes did it for me. As the mother of two boys, I knew instantly that that was Trayvon.

I couldn't sleep for a week. Thinking about those tapes still upsets me a lot.

[freshwest]

19. I know how that feels. Sorry you heard that. Let's protect the kids, heck, all of us.

[yardwork]

27. I'm glad that those tapes were released so that America could hear them. This must stop.

[uppityperson]

38. I just listened. There is no way that is Zimmy.

Even the timing, yelling "help help help" and then the gunshot. If Zimmy, as he claims, was getting beat on, how the hell could he have then pulled his gun, shot Trayvon, gotten to his feet, stood over Trayvon with his hands on his back, without getting blood on him, in that brief second?

It doesn't work. And the voice. That is, sigh, big sigh, fuck. A 17 yr old being scared shitless then shot. I am sorry I heard it, am glad it was released.

Hugs to you, mom, from another mom of a boy.

[yardwork]

43. ....

[freshwest]

4. Glad I didn't click. I've heard boys cry in terror and pain and can't take it anymore.

[Mariana]

7. I'm with you - I can't bring myself to listen to it.

I have a daughter Trayvon's age.

[riverwalker]

8. former co-workers

said he would "just snap" and because of his anger, lost his job as private security because of it. I think he snapped on Trayvon, went ballistic, and Trayvon knew the guy was out of control and called for help.

[Ganja Ninja]

13. Also if you listen to the recording you can hear the volume change and get louder.

To me it sounds like Trayvon was moving and getting closer to the 911 caller's location. That would indicate the struggle was over and the two were more than a few feet apart. It could also be that Trayvon had turned to try and escape thus the direction of his cries turned toward 911 callers direction and got louder as a result.

[uppityperson]

39. Yup. Waiting for the autopsy report. Betting more and more it shows he got shot in the back.

[Snake Alchemist]

14. And if it turns out to be Zimmerman? nt

[Evasporque]

16. TRayvon will still be dead....shot by Zimmerman who hunted him down and intiated a confrontation.

That is what.

[Snake Alchemist]

18. That will definitely be the prosecutions case.

I think everyone is waiting for the autopsy to be released.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. Where have you been in the last two days?

[Occulus]

22. SA was looking in another direction

Easy to do when you're bending over backward that way.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. LOL!

[Surya Gayatri]

24. +1,000! Word! n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

25. That would be Chameleon Alchemist. nt

[markpkessinger]

41. Several voice analysts have said definitively that it could NOT have been Zimmerman n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

42. And several witnesses said it was him.

I think a lot will hinge on what the autopsy shows.

[markpkessinger]

44. There are conflicting witness accounts . . .

. . . which means their veracity will need to be established by other means. Forensic analysis comes down on the side of those who have said the voice was not Zimmerman's. Also, the fact that these purported witnesses came out of the woodwork after the fact renders their claims to be worthy of a good dose of skepticism.

[Snake Alchemist]

47. I think everything is worthy of skepticism at this point.

I have to wonder why the state hasn't released the autopsy yet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Several has been reduced from two

John and his other neighbor, to one. It's been established John was nowhere near.

[Cali_Democrat]

29. When is this asshole going to be arrested?

[Solomon]

33. The wailing means first degree murder. my wife made

me shut it off. She couldn't bear to listen to the kid scream for his life and she had tears in her eyes.

[Matariki]

49. The question is, why have the police been covering for Zimmerman?

[shimonitanegi]

54. I think the police was in a denial mode

If the voice was Martin's, that meant Zimmerman killed him in a cold blooded manner.
What kind of person could shoot a kid crying for help and begging for his life?
The police just couldn't imagine that Zimmerman was a cold blooded killer.

[grasswire]

53. Not many of us have heard a person wail and be killed.

We've heard TV actors do that.

But I doubt that very many of us have heard that moment of extremis; the "excruciating" sound of someone screaming in mortal fear.

Now we have. And it can't be unheard.

In a way, we are all victims, too.

[Raine]

56. So sad to hear, not only is he screaming "HELP" & "HELP ME" but I'm sure I hear "WHY?"

Makes me to think of the fear he must have felt with that POS pointing a gun at him.