I am Sick of all the Zimmerman Defenders

[rbrnmw]

He is a lying pos and I don't believe Trayvon was his first murder victim if I was the feds I'd be looking into unsolved murders involving young black people I am not joking either

How can anyone believe Zimms Fairytales any of 3 or so presented thus far?

And most importantly HOW CAN ANYONE DEMONIZE TRAYVON HE IS THE FUCKING VICTIM?

[MarianJack]

1. A tried and true rightist bag of malignant tricks.

Blame the victim and slime the dead.

Bastards.

PEACE!

[TBF]

2. Repugs love to blame the victim -

it's what they do best. Mostly they do it to keep the attention off their own crimes.

[iemitsu]

52. all americans tend to "blame the victim".

we have been trained to do it.

[iemitsu]

55. i meant to say.

as herman cain would say "if you get shot by a vigilante, blame yourself".

[TBF]

59. That's what you intended to say?

Herman Cain is an idiot.

[iemitsu]

64. herman cain is an idiot

and i suppose i am too since i (like norman goldman) keep repeating that dumb phrase of his.
its not really funny either, except when one is commenting on the peculiar american notion that those who are down and out deserve to be there.
sorry.

[TBF]

71. Herman Cain is wrong about why -

it is not that all Americans love vigilantism - it is that some are particularly good at the "blame the victim" thing because it is in their interest to do so. It is the capitalism that encourages the bad behavior (and needs to go), not some flaw in the people.

[iemitsu]

72. TBF, i agree with you that it is our economic system

that causes our bad personalities.
if one lives in a system that requires a large nest-egg (for emergencies) then one cannot afford to be generous (since one can never know when they will need what has been stashed).
if health care and education were covered (like they are in civilized countries) then people could afford to be more community oriented.
the "blame yourself" mime is really a way for individuals to relieve their own guilt for not wanting to or not being able to help others in need.

[TBF]

73. I thought we might be on the same page with that -

that's why I kept responding. It is really sad what this system does to people.

[iemitsu]

74. yep, sorry i'm so obtuse that it took so many posts to get my meaning.

i'll try to be more clear in the future.
ed.: to fix tense.

[TBF]

75. I may be the obtuse one -

No problem at all.

[iemitsu]

76. thanks.

it is probably me.

[Justice wanted]

3. I can't believe ABC's "Enhance Video" showing signs of "wounds" I've seen those kind of marks

from a cousin of mine who shave his head.

[rbrnmw]

7. That "enhancement" is bullshit

the cop next to him looks like he took one helluva beating too. (to any lurking freakers don't run with that I'm saying it was edited not enhanced I don't think the cop was beat up)

[Justice wanted]

11. hell I'll go one step further and say it was photoshoped

[Ecumenist]

4. I agree 100000% with you. It's sickening the way his apologists wrench themselves into pretzels

in an attempt justify and rationalise this murderer and don't seem to feel shame when questioned about his ever evolving lies. His shills can't even their lies straight and even. SMDH

[leveymg]

5. Add ABC to the list of fabricators and dissemblers.

The "enhanced image" of his head is NOT the original video I saw (clearly) on my screen. Besides, what happened to Zimmerman's "broken nose"?

[uponit7771]

16. ...and the blood on his shirt!!! They can say he was hit...but can't argue there was NO BLOOD

...on his shirt

[HereSince1628]

6. Who, what, where? Is this in response to something on the radio or teevee?

[rbrnmw]

9. Not any one thing all of it

I am sick of the LIES

[brooklynite]

8. Unrec'd

Zimmerman's reputation is bad enough; insinuating he's responsible for unsolved murders is uncalled for, as well as implausible. Remember, this is a guy who called 911 for the most trivial of matters. He's sees himself as a wanna-be cop, not a lone vigilante.

[rbrnmw]

10. I disagree I do think he may have murdered before

[brooklynite]

12. ...based on...

[rbrnmw]

13. I think he may have had a practice victim or two

He is a psychopath and he was building himself up to be a big hero. I think he may have done this in a higher crime area to make it look black on black even. The SPD video shows a calm, cool, collected individual, I think if it was the first time he'd be at least a little nervous.

[zipplewrath]

14. I think you watch too much TV

Never attribute to cunning what can be explained by shear stupidy.

By the time that video was taken, it was long after the event and he had gone into self protection mode. He's an idiot that got in way over his head and then made a really REALLY dumb decision after a series of moderately dumb decisions. His 911 call record alone suggests not a guy that was stalking and killing, but a really bored idiot with dreams of grandeur.

[rbrnmw]

15. I don't watch TV n/t

[davidthegnome]

17. Reality is often more scary than fiction

There's a reason a lot of our more popular shows revolve around murder and violence. It's because it's so very common in this Country. I don't think it's too far fetched to think that Zimmerman may have had victims in the past. Still, it is speculation and nothing more.

I would never underestimate an idiot with a gun.

[rbrnmw]

18. If Trayvon can be a thug for wearing certain apparel

then Zimmy can be a budding serial killer

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. That's some rock solid reasoning right there. n/t

[zipplewrath]

29. But he wasn't

Trayvon wasn't a "thug", for any reason. Ergo, Zimmy wasn't a budding serial killer either.

[iemitsu]

54. i love your maxim

"Never attribute to cunning what can be explained by shear stupidity."
a good principle to use when analyzing human behavior.

[X_Digger]

57. Hanlon's Razor..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

[div class='except']Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

At least that's one name and variation of it. (More good info on the wiki page.)

[iemitsu]

66. thank you.

[oldhippie]

43. I think it's based on ....

... MSU (making shit up.)

Sometimes I wonder about the state of our society.

[2ndAmForComputers]

53. What, did you recommend so you could unrecommend?

[jpak]

19. Vigilante apologists suck

yup

[Not Me]

21. IF only they had arrested him.

There would have been booking photographs taken. He would have been drug and alcohol tested. And he wouldn't have had the opportunity to consult with (judge) daddy to concoct a story.

[abelenkpe]

23. Why hasn't he been arrested?! Nt

[Atypical Liberal]

22. It seems hard to defend Zimmerman anymore. His case is falling apart.

As a self-defense and firearms advocate, I wanted Zimmerman to be shown to be justified in what he did.

But it's getting awful hard to defend Zimmerman anymore. His case is falling apart.

There is only one eyewitness who has given testimony to support Zimmerman's story. He is the one who can be heard on camera saying he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. The only other corroboration of this version of the story is the amended police report.

Unofficial voice analysis seems to rule out Zimmerman as being the one calling for help.

The video of Zimmerman at the police station doesn't seem to show much in the way of wounds, though there is a shot of a policeman eying the back of Zimmerman's head for several seconds.

It turns out Zimmerman's dad is apparently a retired judge. It's hard not to wonder if this didn't get him special treatment from the police.

More key evidence that has yet to be revealed will come from Martin's autopsy and forensic analysis of his wounds.

I think Zimmerman is going to get hit with at least manslaughter. It's going to be tough though since the police failed so completely in their handling of Zimmerman after the crime took place. They completely destroyed the chain of evidence.

I don't think Stand Your Ground is going to have any play here because as the initiator (and it is becoming very hard to say Zimmerman was not the initiator) Zimmerman had the opportunity and duty to retreat.

[slackmaster]

33. I believe the decision to charge him with a crime, or not to charge him will be based largely...

...on information that none of us have seen or heard yet.

[Mariana]

46. The autopsy report will be huge factor, one way or the other.

So you're right, of course.

[freshwest]

51. How long has it been? They've got the report already. But this drags on. Sure, it might not come out

Until there's a trial. But at this rate, it's not going to happen. And in the meantime the media is inciting the teabaggers to attack every young black man they see, as that nut did in Pearland...

That was a middled-aged woman who went out of her way to drive on the grass, for crying out loud, to hit a kid on a go kart. She yelled at him that he didn't belong in that neighborhood.

Lunatics are going ballistic as we type...

[JDPriestly]

35. In Zimmerman's original 911 call, he admits he followed

Trayvon Martin, that he suspected Trayvon Martin of something (being black, young and having something in his hands?). He then suggested that they always get away, and he wasn't going to let Trayvon get away.

Zimmerman says that he was just checking the address. The 911 operator had asked Zimmerman to meet the police at the mail boxes. Zimmerman knew that he had a gun. Armed with that gun , Zimmerman sought a confrontation with Trayvon.

Zimmerman might defend himself by claiming that he did not have the intention to kill. But why did he follow a person you he had never seen before when he head a gun? Wasn't he looking for a confrontation?

What could Trayvon have said when this strange man confronted him and asked him where he was going? It is aggressive to walk up to a person and ask them what they are doing. You just don't do that. Especially if they aren't doing anything remarkable.

Trayvon must have been terrified. I would have been. Regardless of what he did after Zimmerman met him on the path, Trayvon was not the initiator of the fight. Zimmerman initiated the fight by following Trayvon while armed.

A person with a gun should not follow another person. Not ever. Not unless they are a police officer of some sort.

[Atypical Liberal]

49. Not everyone who carries a concealed weapon is looking for a confrontation.

A person with a gun should not follow another person. Not ever. Not unless they are a police officer of some sort.

I disagree. Lots of people carry concealed firearms. There is nothing wrong with such people walking up to people and asking questions to people in public, and it does not mean that they are looking for a confrontation.

The implication is that people with concealed weapons should never investigate anything that looks suspicious or illegal. While we might question the wisdom of getting involved, there's nothing inherently wrong with just investigating situations in public, and it doesn't mean that they are out to shoot someone. They might just as easily stop a crime.

I don't claim to understand Zimmerman's motivation. Maybe he was just itching to shoot someone. But that does not have to be the case.

What I think happened is that Zimmerman was an eager-beaver police wannabe. The guy lived on the phone calling 911. I think in his mind he was just chasing down a suspicious person. I don't think he had any intent of an actual physical confrontation.

I think that during his pursuit of Martin, Martin rightfully feared for his safety.

When Zimmerman confronted Martin, there was some kind of physical confrontation. We can't be sure at this point who started the actual physical confrontation, but even if Martin started it, he was probably justified in standing his own ground at least from my perspective. I think Zimmerman than panicked when the confrontation turned physical and he shot Martin.

Note that there is a lot of doubt now as to whether or not there actually was a physical confrontation, or at least, the way it was originally portrayed. There is only one eyewitness testimony who says that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and it was only added to the police report on amendment. All the other testimony and evidence does not support Zimmerman's story.

[bettyellen]

70. "just" + chasing down a person while armed do not belong in the same sentence.

[Atypical Liberal]

78. "chasing down".

So was it "chasing down" or "walking up to someone on the street"?

It remains to be seen.

[iemitsu]

58. it is hard to verify the actual reason for the special treatment

of zimmerman.
you mention, as have many others, that zimmerman senior is a judge, of sorts. this may explain the kid glove treatment.
but, i think that perhaps even more interesting is that grandpa zimmerman was CIA. one of the founding members (perhaps recruited in germany by prescott bush?).
i think that network is likely behind the special treatment of this young man. they have long arms.

[Atypical Liberal]

77. Holy shit I did not know that. n/t

[Gurgen4]

24. Anyone who defends Zimmerman is probably mentally ill

Then again racists are usually mentally ill but not in a way that allows them to claim "insanity" for their actions - they must be punished!

But frankly we knew it was coming. In fact, anyone with an iota of education could see that the racists would snooker people of every stripe into believing that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength. No matter what racists think, they try to pretend like they're always the victims. This fraud, this lie, is just one among the thousands they perpetrate.

I am so sick of racism, homophobia, and bigotry in general. Too many times I turn on the news I always hear of some innocent young black child being murdered. This has got to stop. We need to stand together, everyone, black & hispanic, lesbian & gay, atheists, people of the Jewish faith, etc. We all need to stand up and say enough is enough.

[The Wizard]

25. Zimmermann is the type

who would start a fire so as to be seen putting out and be called a hero. Fucking moron is what he really is.

[slampoet]

26. I will use this case to Tarnish anything that comes out of the Orlando Sentinel forever.

They aren't fit to wrap fish.

[RedCloud]

32. One headline in the 90's "The Lord has risen!"

It was for Easter Sunday. I cancelled my subscription that day due to NO photographic evidence.

[bayareaboy]

27. I don't understand or can fathom folks from Judge Zimmerman on down.

They don't really understand that it is still in most bibles, that you won't bear false witness.

I am so tired of folks playing projection because they need things to be OK for their sensilbities.

Their feelings suck, big time

[SemperEadem]

28. dont'cha know the predominant mindset of his defenders?

That black people are not born innocent. No matter if they are straight A, studious, boy/girl scout, go-to-church-every-sunday-and-sing-in-the-choir, help old ladies across the street--not a one is born innocent.

[Vattel]

30. This sounds like the sort of wild speculation that RWers engage in so much.

I mean, seriously, a serial murderer? We on the left should be more evidence-based. I have to admit that I have been appalled at all of the wild speculation that has appeared on DU. Because his father was a magistrate in a different state, or his grandfather was in the CIA, some DUers have convinced themselves that undue influence was used to help him avoid charges. Some DUers are now claiming that the enhanced video was doctored. How on earth do they know this?

I prefer to admit that I don't know what if any crime Zimmerman committed. I would certainly not be surprised at all if he turns out to be a murderer. I also wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out that the killing was not criminal because, under the law, it was justifiable self-defense.

Please let's not behave like a bunch of birthers.

[rbrnmw]

34. you are right I had been up all night

reading news sites and comments I was so angry I'm sorry

[Vattel]

40. No worries, it happens.

You have a right to be upset about the press demonizing Trayvon Martin. That is disgusting. My friend's neighbor got killed by two police officers and the press demonized him and his family because they just couldn't believe that police officers in their town could be thugs. The press even publicized that he was "on prescription drugs for mental illness" when the fact of the matter was that he was just taking anti-depressants. Later those police officers were caught red-handed brutally assaulting another innocent person and they were fired and then convicted for criminal assault.

[JDPriestly]

37. It was not justifiable self-defense.

Zimmerman was following Trayvon in the belief that Trayvon was up to no good (Zimmerman's first 911 call). Zimmerman's belief about Trayvon was without basis and unreasonable.

The community had given Zimmerman the authority to watch for intruders or suspicious activity and to call the police. That was all he was supposed to do. He had no authority or reason to follow Trayvon.

Trayvon had the legal right to walk in peace without being followed to his father's girlfriend's house from the store.

Those are pretty much the most important facts. They are enough in my opinion to convict Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's wrong was to Trayvon. That was the initial act of aggression.

Hypothetically, what if Trayvon had been your son, or, what if he had been a woman, let's say your wife or daughter.

Ask yourself: Could Trayvon have defended himself against Zimmerman without also having a gun?

Whether Zimmerman was injured is not even relevant because by the time the guys were physically fighting, Zimmerman had already acted wrongly.

[Vattel]

41. Zimmerman did act wrongly first, but following Martin and even confronting him, was not criminal.

If I am rude to you (or even follow you and ask stupid or insulting questions) and then you attack me and I defend myself, the mere fact that I did something wrong first does not undermine my self-defense justification.

[JDPriestly]

44. Trayvon was acting in self-defense.

Trayvon was aware that Zimmerman was following him.

Zimmerman had no right to follow Trayvon or ask Trayvon what Trayvon was doing there. Had I been Trayvon, I would have been terrified to see this man following me.

We shall see what the autopsies say about Trayvon's physical condition and what the medical report says about Zimmerman's.

Zimmerman may or may not be convicted, but he should stand trial. And if I were he, I would be trying to arrange a plea.

Zimmerman could have left his gun in his car. That would have ratcheted the matter down to a fair fight. But Zimmerman was following Trayvon, and while doing that, Zimmerman knew one very crucial fact -- that he, himself, Zimmerman was armed and dangerous. That puts him in a very bad position.

[Vattel]

47. Yes Zimmerman was armed prior to the incident.

But if he was attacked (a big "if" of course), the fact that he was armed doesn't undermine a self-defense justification for shooting his attacker.

[JDPriestly]

79. Have you listened to Zimmerman's first 911 call?

Zimmerman was out for bear. He sounded very angry and had already decided that he did not want to "let another one get away." Those are not precisely his words, but they are very close. Please listen to that. Zimmerman had already decided that Trayvon Martin was a bad guy -- which he apparently wasn't at the time he was shot.

[The Magistrate]

48. Depends On How You Confront A Person, Sir

Do so in a belligerent and threatening manner, and you may certainly give the person you confront grounds to reasonably believe they face a threat of serious bodily harm, and may well cross the line to committing assault. These are grounds for a violent response, and certainly are under Florida law.

[Vattel]

62. You are absolutely correct.

Whether Zimmerman's actions were criminal or justifiable self-defense (under the law) depends on the details of what happened. We do not yet know enough of those details to make a determination.

[JDPriestly]

80. We will never hear Trayvon Martin's side of the story.

That is why it has to be up to the killer claiming self-defense to prove that he killed in self-defense in a court.

[iemitsu]

61. yes jd, if zimmerman had just watched martin

he would have eventually seen him enter the home where he was staying, the father's girlfriend's house.
that would have answered any legitimate questions zimmerman had for martin.
instead he confronted martin and killed him just yards from martin's destination fearing that "another one of them would get away" if he (zimmerman) didn't make his move.
zimmerman was in the wrong.

[RZM]

42. That's a well-reasoned post

I believe that on DU at least, this story has jumped the shark. I think that's an apt description because it's used to refer to a show that has gone on too long and veered off into ridiculous territory.

I think that's what has happened here. I'm not saying that people shouldn't talk about it anymore, but there just isn't a whole lot new that can be said about it, so people are increasingly turning to wacky theories. That kind of thing is pretty much inevitable. Eventually, when every angle of the case has been discussed, you move to increasingly odd angles in order to keep the discussion going.

On a related point, there is also the notion that the dominant narrative here about what has happened has 'settled in.' People are pretty much convinced what happened, so any new information is interpreted in a way that fits that narrative (hence the accusations that the video was 'doctored,' even thought it's not even clear if injuries are evident in the enhanced video).

I've probably done the same thing. I've had the same theory about what happened for a while now (verbal confrontation, followed by a physical confrontation, followed by Zimmerman pulling out his gun and shooting Trayvon in the course of the altercation) and I still believe that's what happened. Whether or not that means charges should be filed I just don't know. I don't have enough access to the evidence or knowledge of the law to say that. My guess is that they might be able to charge him with manslaughter, but I really don't know.

[Vattel]

67. Being able to admit that you don't know something is an underestimated virtue.

[iemitsu]

60. when people don't have all the information or are being denied a plausible

explanation, all they have left is speculation.
this is not necessarily a bad thing. it requires a thought process and is the way one solves problems.
people who speculate that zimmerman was given special treatment actually have evidence that he was treated specially. what one doesn't know is why. so people attempt to figure out an answer. looking at zimmerman's family connections is a logical place to start when trying to figure out this mystery.
we either find out the truth or we don't.
when we don't our speculations eventually, officially turn into conspiracy theories.
then those who deny us the truth get to laugh at us for having to guess.
but one can't blame people for wanting to understand the dynamics of this story.

[Vattel]

63. I have no objections for asking questions like, "Did Zimmermans father help keep him out of jail?"

My objection is to embracing answers to those questions without sufficent evidence.

[iemitsu]

69. yes, i agree that embracing odd and fanciful suggestions

is risky and that one ought to care how he/she is perceived by the academic community.
but beyond that, it is fun to pick on those who seem to have privileges that the rest of us don't have.

[RedCloud]

31. To have an on the top head wound

it meant the much smaller Trayvon picked up the burly Zimmerman and pile drove his head into the ground repeatedly. Most likely as one writer thought yesterday Zimmerman hurt his head racing out the door of his car to get at Trayvon.

Here is something I am sticking in the face of Zimmerman's apologists. Where is Trayvon's right to stand his ground? Or must he be white to do that?

Also why did Zimmerman shoot to kill instead of wound? That leaves a witness, doesn't it?

Also on the tape where the police order Zimmerman to back off, you hear Zimmerman get frustrated because Trayvon is "getting away". Therefore Zimmerman's life was in no danger at all.

[rbrnmw]

36. Trayvon would have to be a Super Duper Superman

To accomplish all Zimmerman claims first he punched him in the nose from behind, then while bashing his head into the sidewalk (had to been holding him by the ankles) he's also holding his mouth shut while UN-holstering his gun this is all with-in a minute at most.

[Mariana]

38. I think most of them know damn well that Zimmerman is full of shit.

The fact that they're making up and spreading proven lies about Trayvon's past, and about the shooting itself, and posting all those fake pictures, and so on, indicates that they know it wasn't a righteous self-defense situation. The're pretending to believe Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and tried to kill him because they're happy that he killed a young black man, regardless of the circumstances. A young black man is dead, and as far as they're concerned, that's always a good thing. They can't say that, of course, so they put on this ridiculous act.

I don't believe you'll find any unsolved previous murders of young black men by Zimmerman and this is why I think so - all this is pure speculation on my part, but I think this is how it was:

I believe Zimmerman's fantasy was pretty specific: to shoot a "bad guy" legally in a defense situation. It so happened that his mental picture of a typical "bad guy" was a young black man in a hoodie, but I think he'd readily have gone after and shot a white man if he saw one that looked like a "bad guy" to him. Anyway, that fantasy is why he got his carry permit and made it his hobby to go out looking for "bad guys". And that's why he sounded so angry that "these assholes always get away", he was frustrated that none of them ever gave him a believable excuse to shoot them. In the recording of Zimmerman's phone call, I swear I hear anticipation in his voice while he's describing Trayvon supposedly making threatening moves toward him (he's coming toward me, he looks like he's on drugs, he's got something in his hand, etc.). He must have been mightily disappointed when Trayvon took off away from him, and made a snap decision that this time, he wasn't going to let the "bad guy" get away. I think if (big if) Trayvon did hit Zimmerman at all, that Zimmerman provoked it on purpose to give him an excuse to shoot, but it's just as likely that Trayvon never touched him at all.

So, I think this was his first. It was almost inevitably going to happen at some point. Zimmerman was going to shoot someone. If it hadn't been Trayvon, it would have been some other "bad guy" (almost certainly a young black man) some other night.

[rbrnmw]

45. reminds me of this guy

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Gregorian]

39. If English isn't your first language, I apologize.

But I can't get past your atrocious grammar.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. There are plenty of Zimmerman apologists right here on DU, and it's disgusting!!!!

[akbacchus_BC]

65. Me too, he was out to get the kid even when the cops told him to stay put! I can never ever say how

disgusted am here and that killer has defenders on here?

[akbacchus_BC]

68. and they ask why black men are not looking after their families. Well hello, you shoot them

whilst black, you incarcerate them for a toke and the courts jail them for longer times as opposed to any other race! And not to mention you saction them whilst driving as a black persion!