Who is Hillary Clinton to say Assad must go?

[cqo_000]

Isn't it up to the people of Syria to decide whether they want Assad or not? Whether Hillary Clinton likes it or not Mr. Assad maintains substantial support in Syria and it is far from clear that a majority want to see him gone. Clinton's anti-Assad rhetoric makes her no better than the rebels that are perpetuating atrocities against the people of Syria.

[Skip Intro]

1. Obama admin's SOS, voicing the views of the Obama admin?

[gateley]

4. Yep. She (and others in the cabinet) don't get to REALLY express their opinions. She wouldn't

be saying this if the Administration didn't want her to. I'm guessing that's exactly what it was -- an "official but not really" statement from the United States of America, and since she's the SOS, she was the one who had to deliver it.

Politics.

[karynnj]

76. agree - except one detail. HRC saying it makes it official

given her position.

[gateley]

81. Agree. nt

[jberryhill]

2. The United States Secretary of State

Did you have another question?

The fact that you cast this statement as some sort of personal thing of hers is appallingly demeaning. She is stating the policy of the United States of America, and not some personal opinion of hers.

[cr8tvlde]

3. US has been doing this for Decades

Usually, it's through Foreign Aid/Bribery, or a little dust-up here and there until we get the one we want in there to let us build our military bases, it's just those Arabs and Persians are so difficult to work with...they just don't listen and they don't get it. We can do it all friendly, or we can do it through Regime Change.

It's also a bit harder now with the internet and social media.

[sabrina 1]

28. Same thing in South America. So you are correct. Nothing has changed, except that South America

has finally broken free from their US backed dictators while the US was busy in the ME.

US foreign policy and its wars, are racist to the core. It's way past time to end these Imperial policies and start respecting the sovereignty of other nations.

Welcome to DU.

[pinto]

5. Secretary of State. Our rep to the rest of the world, including Syria.

Seems to be part of the job description.

[Cleita]

6. Somebody has to say he must go. HC is SOS and it's her job.

The people of Syria have said they want him to go. Just watch ME news programs and they pretty much show a majority want him to go. He has killed thousands of his own people. Mr. Assad hasn't the substantial support you are claiming except from his sycophants, of which I suspect you are one of.

[HiPointDem]

38. I didn't see any news shows about the recent vote showing Syrians want Assad to go.

You're saying that watching US news gives Americans a good handle on what people in other countries believe about their government?

So, it was true about those incubator babies, eh?

[Cleita]

41. Watch Al Jazeera and you will get the real news about Syria and

what other ME nations think about Assad. I don't know where you read in my post the US news gives Americans anything. I said nothing of the sort. You know that there are huge refugee camps on the border of Turkey where Syrians are fleeing to be safe from Assad killing them. The reporters interview the refugees on that ME news network.

Here is where the up to date reporting is happening: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Syria

[HiPointDem]

75. Al-Jazeera, owned by the state of Qatar and its 186-year hereditary dynasty, the Al-Thani family.

Installed by the Brits.

Yep, that would be my go-to source for all things Middle Eastern.

[Cleita]

80. Well, maybe your cavalier dismissal of what is a good news source, regardless of who owns it,

is why you are so pathetically uninformed about the ME. I'm sure it doesn't add up to the Fox News coverage you seem to prefer under the control of the tabloid Emir, Rupert Murdoch.

[HiPointDem]

82. Personal attack is no substitute for facts.

[Cleita]

84. Here are some facts.

You allege that workers have no rights so why is their a booklet written that addresses their rights?

http://www.nhrc-qa.org/resources/userfiles/NHRCWorkersRightsBook%20E.pdf

You have gone on a rampage attacking a country you seem to know little about.

[HiPointDem]

85. Because something is written in a 2009 booklet, that means it's the usual practice?

You seem to have missed the reports from Amnesty and other Human Rights orgs, as well as from the US State department, alleging human trafficking etc.

I guess the booklet trumps all, albeit that a high percentage of the imported workers in Qatar can't even read it.

[Cleita]

87. You seem to find stuff that suits your agenda while ignoring

what is inconvenient to you. Yes, there are human rights violations. I said that. I also said they are trying to address them. We who live in this glass house known as the USA shouldn't be throwing stones. The bottom line though is that regardless of what happens in Doha, it has nothing to do with using a reliable news source for information. You seem to think that because the Emir owns the Al Jazeera news outlet, even when they use western reporters from here and England to report the stories, it's not valid in your mind. With that mindset you will be wallowing in a lot of ignorance of ever changing situations that they keep close tabs on.

[HiPointDem]

90. I have an agenda, but you don't? The fact is that Syria, like Libya and Iraq before it, is not

being targeted for overthrow because of human rights abuses or lack of democracy. The powers targeting it are quite willing to tolerate those things in friendly regimes, and we all know it. We also know that there are big power issues behind the scenes.

The fact that Al-Jazeera has western reporters is no more relevant than the fact that Fox News or CNN or Russia Today or the BBC has western reporters. Your statement implies that western reporters are more likely than other reporters to report "the truth". But people everywhere are most inclined to act as their pocketbook, self-interest and personal safety dictates, and that's as true for western reporters as anyone -- as even a casual overview of US reporting demonstrates. Besides which, as we all know, REPORTERS DON'T DICTATE WHAT APPEARS IN MEDIA. They are the low guys on the totem pole. Their stories are killed or rewritten all the time.

Yes, yes, I'll take your comments about my "ignorance" for what they're worth.

[Cleita]

94. Okay, you want to talk about human rights violations?

I once lived in a foreign country in an American mining camp enclave. Americans hired maids and other domestic workers from the indigenous population as young as twelve, worked them from dawn to sundown and paid them the equivalent of $10 a month. Many of the young girls were forced to sleep with their male employers. Here in the USA I worked with illegal immigrants who were also exploited by their employers because of their illegal status. I didn't hear anyone crying about the injustices. Yet, that didn't stop me from reading the New York Times because I didn't approve of the way we treat those underlings we exploit.

So again what does that have to do with the integrity of Al Jazeera? Absolutely nothing. Your strawman is duly noted.

[HiPointDem]

98. I'm afraid that the strawman belongs to you. I've been discussing actual practice in Qatar in

relation to the family that owns and runs the country, including Al-Jazeera. The fact that the Al-Thani family runs the apalling slave-labor regime called Qatar reflects poorly on the reliability of their media outlet as a source of unbiased news on the ME. As does their 186-year history of being British compradors.

Do the owners of the NYT run the US as their personal fiefdom? I hadn't heard. Are 70% of US residents non-citizens brought in from poor countries to labor for the ruling dynasty? Hadn't heard that either.

[Cleita]

100. "Hadn't heard that either."

Of course not because no one is reporting it. Is Ruppert Murdoch, through Roger Ailes of Fox News, not running our country as his personal fiefdom? Otherwise we wouldn't have been subjected to eight years of Bush/Cheney. Now the New York Times has sold out as well, which is why I'm going anywhere else to get the REAL news. When it comes to the ME Al Jazeera has the best reporting.

[HiPointDem]

102. You're saying that Rupert Murdoch and Fox News run the country? I thought it was the owners of the

NYT?

Is Fox News a state-owned media outlet with a protected monopoly and does Murdoch hold hereditary office in the US? Jeepers, he's only been a US citizen for 26 years; quick worker. Did he lose power after Bush left office, or are you saying that Obama and the Democratic Party are also his creatures?

This conversation is becoming increasingly ridiculous.

[inna]

118. welcome to DU - and thumbs up on a very good/solid series of posts!

impressive

- and extra credit for your patience, too, btw! Cleita is really not one of the "bad" ones, she's just unfortunately misinformed on this particular issue... Al-Jaz, humanitarian interventions v.2.0, and... all that "good" stuff. hard to blame her


Hope to see more of your posts! DU has a shortage of good posters, as of recently - and i'm not being sarcastic at all.

[Confusious]

7. Who are you? The voice of Assad?

Last I heard, it was he who was committing the atrocities.

Seems everyone wants him gone, including the Arab league, excepting of course, china and russia.

[Cleita]

8. +++

[tiny elvis]

24. if it is a one sided conflict, then the rebels do not have enough political support

inside the country to rule
if the rebels are in realistic contention for power by arms, then it is a civil war
in our civil war, the union army's siege of richmond was also atrocious, else the end justifies the means

do syrian rebels have enough support to make a civil war, with atrocities to be named by the winners?
in what way does the sos describe her confidence in assad's replacements?

on the other hand, if the op does not respond to anyone, then
we bin trolld 4 teh lulz

[Cleita]

64. Assad has a powerful army to squash any dissent and yet

the Syrian people bravely face being killed every day in spite of that. When people are so desperate that they have nothing to lose but their lives should tell you what is going on.

[Ian David]

9. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground. We support Democracy, not Dictatorships.

I think you're on the wrong message board.

[sabrina 1]

30. Sorry, we have a history of supporting dictators. Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, The Shah of Iran,

every dictator in South America for the past six decades. We support dictators or puppet governments because they are willing to sell their country's resources to the highest bidder. South America is currently and finally holding trials for their war criminals, most of them former allies of the US. Show me a democratically elected leader of a South American or ME country, or African nation, that this country supported or who was not assassinated and replaced by a puppet with our assistance (Chile, Iran, Iraq, the list is long).

To say we do not support dictators, is to ignore history, recent history.

[Ian David]

31. Message board policy and U.S. policy do not always agree. n/t

[sabrina 1]

32. No they don't. I do not support US support for dictators, neither do most Progressive Democrats

anywhere, including on Message boards.

Edited to add the US currently supports the Brutal Bahrain Regime, the dictatorship in Yemen, the vile dictator of Uzbekistan among others. So they can be added to the long list, including recently toppled dictatorships in Egypt and Tunisia, of dictators supported by the US.

[Ian David]

34. I don't believe I said that you did. n/t

[Cleita]

55. Our country certainly does support dictators who are obedient to our interests, however,

I don't think this website does and that's what the poster meant.

[pinto]

10. US, Britain, France seek formal UN deadline for Assad (AFP)

US, Britain, France seek formal UN deadline for Assad

(AFP) – 5 hours ago

UNITED NATIONS — The United States, Britain and France are working on a UN Security Council statement putting a formal stamp on an April 10 deadline for Syria to withdraw troops and guns from protest cities, diplomats said Monday.

The statement would again warn President Bashar al-Assad of possible "further measures" if he reneges on a promise to UN-Arab League envoy Kofi Annan to start implementing Annan's six-point peace plan.

The United States and other western countries have expressed strong doubts that Assad will move to end the year-old crackdown on protesters and opposition groups in which the UN says more than 9,000 people have been killed.

"Annan wants a statement by the council on the April 10 deadline, on the UN preparing an observer mission if there is a halt in hostilities and on the need to agree a political transition," said one UN diplomat.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jX396GBdgOif9tQbT0mm8jhZkQ3w?docId=CNG.d3426359c7bf8d0824de3e71ac0df446.401

[cthulu2016]

11. A stridently pro-Assad post. Awesome!

[jberryhill]

12. Shh... Is clever psychological war operation

Is post on American political forum for making minds to agree with us.

Everybody to get from street!

[Richardo]

21. +1000 bonus points for "The Russians Are Coming" reference

[Lil Missy]

13. She is United States Secretary of State. And, the people of Syria DO want him to go,

but Dictators don't do what their people want.

Enjoy your stay.

[arely staircase]

14. on this ms. clinton and the syrian people are on the same page

so fret not.

[Firebrand Gary]

15. In my opinion, this post is absurd! I am trashing it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

17. Actually, Syrians seem quite divided on whether he should go or stay.

I've read that about 30% want him dead and gone, about 30% are strong supporters, and about 40% would like to see reforms, but not at the price of civil war.

Civil war is exactly what we are preparing to encourage. Be prepared for years of bloodshed. And hope it doesn't turn into an all-out regional sectarian bloodbath, with Shiite Iran and Shite-led Iraq lining up with Assad against the Syrian Sunnis, the Sunni Saudis, and the Sunni Gulf States.

Our media, our mass TV media in particular, have been terribly simple-minded in their coverage of what's going on there.

[Cleita]

19. Our media has barely covered this.

The Middle East media, which you can get if you hunt around the internet enough, is pretty much saying he has to go. They are documenting the atrocities. The other countries of the ME really don't want to interfere militarily, but the situation there is very bad.

[HiPointDem]

44. Who is "the middle east media"? Just as our home media slants coverage toward certain political

and class interests, so does "the middle east media".

For example, Arab Media Group is part of Dubai Holding, which belongs to the government of Dubai, and 97% of it to one man, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the PM and VP of UAE, who is married to the daughter of King Hussein of Jordan, among his many family and business connections to "royalty" throughout the ME.

Al Jazeera, which was played up as some kind of "radical" news outlet during 911, is owned by Qatar Media Corporation, which is itself owned by the state of Qatar, and specifically by the Al-Thani family. It was the emir of Qatar, Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, who put up the money to found Al-Jazeera.

The ruling class of the Middle East controls its media, and they're a tight little group organized along familial lines. And as they were often installed and supported by western powers, they maintain financial, business and political links to western powers.

I'll add that most of these revolts have as much to do with conflicts between big players, both domestic (ME ruling families) and foreign (big-power rivalries fought by proxy) as they do with the spontaneous actions and desires of "the people".

[Cleita]

48. Al Jazeera, for all your sneering, has pretty good unbiased coverage of a variety of

things going on around the world, including our country. They have been covering the Arab spring much better than we do. But go on and praise the tinpot, murderous dictators if you must just because a Sheik owns the media outlet. Also, Free Speech TV carries Al Jazeera here in the USA. If they were nothing more than a propaganda outlet as you seem to be alleging, I don't think the same cable channel that carries Thom Hartmann and Amy Goodman would allow them on the air.

[HiPointDem]

49. It's not sneering. I am pointing out that Al Jazeera, and ME media generally, is owned by very

specific interests.

As for Free Speech TV and the like, those outlets are also owned and managed by people with a certain set of interests.

Just because something is on Free Speech TV doesn't mean it's truthful, virtuous, or even necessarily "left," just as seeing something on Fox News doesn't make it truthful, virtuous, or even necessarily "right".

Have you never heard of the various supposedly left wing media outlets in the US that were shown later to be largely funded and staffed by hidden actors such as the US State Department?

You would, I'm assuming, be the first to acknowledge right-wing funding of things like the Tea-party. Do you think there is no "left" equivalent?

Besides which, nowhere have I praised any tinpot dictators. However, can the Al-Thani absolute monarchy that has ruled Qatar since the 19th century, and that also owns Al-Jazeera, be voted out of office by the "people"?

just asking.

[Cleita]

50. Really? Free Speech TV isn't left and Fox isn't right?

Boy, are you mixed up. Can the Queen of England be voted out of office? Does that mean England can't have elections? Qatar's 2005 Constitution incidentally calls for elections for parliament. They aren't as oligarchic as you want to paint them.

[HiPointDem]

52. Prime Minister of Qatar is an Al-Thani. PM has been an Al-Thani since the Brits installed the

family back in the 19th Century. Current Emir (an Al-Thani) is also the Minister of Defense. etc.

The government and military are controlled by the ruling family, de facto and de jure, and "constitutional reform" has not changed that picture.

It's a family-run oligarchy, and achieved that through the western powers it works hand in glove with.

[Cleita]

53. But if he's a good PM, why not?

The fact is that he is no longer an absolute ruler, but must answer to a representative government. I mean we have dynastic rule here too at times. What the heck are the Bushes?

[HiPointDem]

58. You neglected the "et cetera," which encompasses the Al-Thanis holding the rest of the pivotal

offices of the State and military. As well as their syncophants and bought-off henchmen.

No sense discussing it further.

The democratic media of the democratic Middle East have spoken, along with the representatives of American democracy.

No need to think outside that box in any way whatsoever.

PS: There has never been an election in Qatar. That is scheduled for the future, next year to be precise.

Syria, on the other hand, has elections slated for May of this year. But perhaps we will go to war before that.

[LanternWaste]

60. Additionally, the people of the Middle Easy have spoken...

"The democratic media of the democratic Middle East have spoken, along with the representatives of American democracy..."

Additionally, the people of the Middle Easy have spoken, are speaking, and will be speaking, regardless of whether what they say deflates your contrived narrative calling itself trendy skepticism...

[HiPointDem]

68. Some are speaking. Others are being arrested.

BLOGGER DETAINED INCOMMUNICADO IN QATAR

Sultan al-Khalaifi, who is a Qatari blogger and the founder of a human rights organization, was arrested on 2 March and is being detained incommunicado. He is at risk of torture or other ill-treatment. The reasons for his detention are unknown.

Sultan al-Khalaifi was arrested in the evening of 2 March by around eight individuals in plain clothes, believed to be members of the security forces. He was leaving his parents’ house at the time. The individuals took him to his own home, which they then searched, seizing CDs and a laptop. His family’s car was also searched. According to information received by Amnesty International, he had told his wife earlier that day that State Security had contacted him, asking him to report to them, but that he did not know why.

His whereabouts are not known, but it is believed that he is being held in the custody of State Security. It is not known why he was arrested. Amnesty International is concerned that his detention incommunicado puts him at increased risk of torture or other ill-treatment.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE22/001/2011/en/a90ca459-7bf5-479d-ba4d-903c7f476e26/mde220012011en.html

[jberryhill]

72. Is that somewhere near New Orleans?

[HiPointDem]

105. Here are a few that are speaking: the corrupt potentates in SA & Qatar call to arm Syria's rebels.

While the PM of Iraq rejects that call, saying that the call by Qatar and Saudi to arm Syrian rebels "will leave a greater crisis in the region."

He also cautioned that "those countries that are interfering in Syria's internal affairs will interfere in the internal affairs of any country."

The socks of the leadership of SA & Qatar predictably attacked the Iraqi PM.

"Gulf (states) should boycott Maliki and his government," wrote Tariq al-Homayed, the editor of Asharq al-Awsat, calling for the "punishment of all who stand with the tyrant of Damascus, first and foremost Maliki's government."

"Boycott him to prevent the emergence of a new Saddam or another Bashar," wrote Homayed in the Saudi owned pan-Arab daily referring to the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and Syria's embattled President Bashar al-Assad.

The Saudi media campaign against Maliki came after the Iraqi prime minister said Baghdad rejected "any arming (of Syrian rebels) and the process to overthrow the Assad regime"


Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Apr-03/169051-saudi-media-attacks-iraq-pm-over-syria-stance.ashx#ixzz1r1WYZ4Gu
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

[Cleita]

61. We are talking about Arab countries here that are under the rule of their

sheiks from as far back as the Bronze Age so they aren't going to be like us. However, Qatar treats their women better than their neighbors in Saudi Arabia. They can vote, get a higher education, work, drive, go out alone to do their errands and they don't have to wear an Abaya. The Sheik and his family have built an educational structure that requires all the children to be educated through the twelfth grade. They have the most modern health care system in the area. In contrast to other ME countries except maybe Israel, they are really trying to modernize and build a democracy. Yes, they still have problems especially when it come to human rights of their immigrant population, but they are passing laws and trying to rectify what is cultural. And they have the highest GDP in the area and seem to be using their gas and oil revenues for the people, not to buy property in Beverly Hills and gamble in Monte Carlo. I mean I think they are a far cry from Assad and Syria in their approach.

[HiPointDem]

69. But Syrians are supposed to be "like us"? Why do Qatar and SA get a pass when Syria doesn't?

Are you aware that the MAJORITY of people residing in Qatar are workers imported in from somewhere else? And that those workers DON'T enjoy any of the benefits you are touting?

The population of Qatar is close to 2 million, but only about 350K are Qataris.

"Qatar is a destination for men and women trafficked for the purposes of involuntary servitude and, to a lesser extent, commercial sexual exploitation. Men and women from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Ethiopia, Sudan, Thailand, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and China voluntarily travel to Qatar as laborers and domestic servants, but some subsequently face conditions of involuntary servitude.

These conditions include bonded labor; job switching; withholding of pay; charging workers for benefits for which the employer is responsible; restrictions on freedom of movement, including the confiscation of passports and travel documents and the withholding of exit permits; arbitrary detention; threats of legal action and deportation; false charges; and physical, mental and sexual abuse....Qatar is also a destination for women from China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Morocco, Sri Lanka, Lebanon, India, Africa, and Eastern Europe for prostitution, but it is unknown how many are trafficked for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,QAT,4562d8cf2,484f9a3732,0.html

The Government of Qatar does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so. Provisions of the Sponsorship Law condone forced labor activities and slave-like conditions. In addition, Qatar failed to enforce criminal laws against traffickers, lacks an effective victim identification mechanism to identify and protect victims, continues to detain and deport the large majority of victims rather than providing them with protection, and sometimes penalized workers who complained about working conditions or non-payment of wages.

[Cleita]

79. I addressed this in my other post. It's cultural and Qatar is passing laws to take care of

the abuses. Unlike what your link says, it seems they are trying to fix this, maybe not as quickly as we are fixing the immigration problem we are having in this country. It's not like they are sending their army into the streets to kill civilians like the Syrian government is. Also, my post was about Al Jazeera and their reporting, not about the country of Qatar. So please hang your straw dogs someplace else.

[HiPointDem]

88. "It's cultural". I'll remember that. "Qatar is passing laws." That too. Does that apply to every

culture, or only to the ones the west is buddies with?

[HiPointDem]

67. Human rights violations in Qatar

According to the US State Department’s 2011 Trafficking in Persons Report, Qatar is a destination country for men and women subjected to forced labor and, to a much lesser extent, forced prostitution....

These conditions include: threats of serious physical or financial harm; the withholding of pay; charging workers for benefits for which the employer is responsible; restrictions on freedom of movement, including the confiscation of passports and travel documents and the withholding of exit permits; arbitrary detention; threats of legal action and deportation; threats of filing false charges against the worker; and physical, mental, and sexual abuse...

Like other Persian Gulf nations, Qatar has sponsorship laws, which have been widely criticized as "modern-day slavery."[4]Under the provisions of Qatar’s sponsorship law, sponsors have the unilateral power to cancel workers’ residency permits, deny workers’ ability to change employers, report a worker as “absconded” to police authorities, and deny permission to leave the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar


Despite the progress made by the government of Qatar, allegations of torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment continue to be reported, albeit sporadically, and there are not adequate systems in place, in practice, to ensure prompt, independent investigation of allegations of torture or ill-treatment and adequate remedy or redress for victims. Sentences of flogging continued to be imposed.

Qatar's domestic legislation fails to define or adequately prohibit torture. Article 36 of the Constitution states "…No one shall be subjected to torture or degrading treatment. Torture shall be considered a crime publishable by law". However, this is not reflected in Qatar's Penal Code of 2004, which contains no provision specifically prohibiting torture and fails therefore, to give legislative effect to this important constitutional safeguard.

Incommunicado detention is standard practice by State Security forces in Qatar. Amnesty International has received reports in recent years of dozens of people being detained incommunicado by State Security forces for weeks or months, followed by prolonged arbitrary detention without charge or trial.

Article 35 of the new Qatari Constitution bans all discrimination "on grounds of sex, race, language, or religion". In practice, however, women remained subject to gender discrimination under a range of laws and practices, such as laws concerning marriage contracts that favor men. Women must also obtain approval from their husband or guardian before traveling, and children of Qatari women who marry foreign nationals do not qualify for Qatari citizenship, unlike children born to Qatari fathers and foreign mothers.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/qatar

[HiPointDem]

70. Filipino women in UAE jailed for consensual sex

The Dubai government’s Islamic Affairs and Charitable Department has been conducting counseling sessions for Filipina inmates in United Arab Emirates (UAE) jails, Khaleej Times reported.

According to the report, the Filipinas were reminded about the value of women in society and the Islamic culture of the UAE.

“I know that many of them, particularly Filipino women, have sent all their money to their families in the Philippines without saving something for their future," Khaleej Times quoted Wafa Kasimieh, senior adviser of the Islamic Affairs and Charitable Department.

In the report, Kasimieh mentioned that 85 percent of the female inmates are jailed for “consensual sex" or illicit relationships.

http://www.filipinosabroad.com/ofw-news/pinay-inmates-in-uae-receive-counseling.html

[HiPointDem]

73. Children of jailed women in Dubai live in prison

Kids of OFW inmates live inside Dubai prison
By abs-cbnNEWS.com, on August 6th, 2011

MANILA, Philippines – Some 15 overseas Filipino workers (OFW) who are jailed in Dubai, United Arab Emirates are with their children inside the prison.

This information was leaked by a female OFW inmate who was recently released from Muraqabat prison for women in Dubai....

An expatriate friend of Monterona, who works as a reporter in Dubai, confirmed that there are children inside the Muraqabat jail.

Monterona’s friend said the children “don't ever get to go out of the prison compound and receive no education.”

Monterona said some of the inmates claimed that they gave birth inside the prison after their employers sent them to jail for charges such as stealing and illicit affairs.

Several inmates said they were sexually abused and got pregnant.

http://www.filipinosabroad.com/ofw-news/kids-ofw-inmates-live-dubai-prison.html

[HiPointDem]

74. Qatar: Camel jockeys = kidnapped children

Gulf Arab monarchies are trying to bring order to the national sport in the face of protests over the trafficking of young children from the subcontinent as jockeys.

The US State Department and human rights groups have raised the alarm over the exploitation of children by traffickers who pay impoverished parents a paltry sum or simply resort to kidnapping their victims.

The children, mostly from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Pakistan, are then smuggled into the oil-rich Gulf states.

They are often starved by employers to keep them light and maximize their racing potential. Mounting camels three times their height, the children - some as young as six - face the risk of being thrown off or trampled.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=11612

[HiPointDem]

77. Qatar: slave-labor state, a nightmare for migrant workers

In connection with the upcoming 2022 World Cup, many international trade unions have urged FIFA, the governing body of soccer, not to stage the tournament in Qatar, likening labor conditions in the country to “modern slavery.”

“Migrant workers in Qatar have no labor rights, wages are exploitative and occupational health and safety risks are extreme,” International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC) general secretary Sharan Burrow said in a statement.

Indeed, Qatar's fabulous wealth has come at a terrible price.

"We asked the FIFA secretary general if they wanted their stadiums to be built by slave workers, by exploited labor," Ambet Yuson, general secretary of Building and Wood Workers International told Reuters.

"Ninety-four percent of workers are migrants in Qatar. It's basically modern slavery. They are migrant workers from India, Nepal and Bangladesh; they go there and their passports are withheld, sometimes they don't get paid their salaries or they are six months late and they have no other options.”

Yuson further said: "It's terrible; I was there, their living quarters are really bad, it's a bad situation. FIFA said they will use leverage, because Qatar wants the World Cup. We told them it's serious and we are going to campaign. We said we want to see some action in six months."

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/297616/20120213/qatar-migrant-workers-wealth-abuse-labor-rights.htm

[HiPointDem]

78. Al Jazeera Journalist Sacked and Deported from Qatar Due to HIV-positive Status

9 March 2012: The International Trade Union Confederation has called on Qatar-based Al Jazeera to reinstate a South African journalist who was sacked and deported from Qatar after a health test revealed to the authorities, without his knowledge, that he is HIV-positive.

The Qatari authorities have also been called upon to withdraw the law which bans HIV-positive foreigners from working in the country.

http://www.ituc-csi.org/al-jazeera-journalist-sacked-and.html

[Cleita]

83. This is old news. They use robots now.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0715_050715_robot_jockey.html

[HiPointDem]

86. Is 2010 "new" enough for you? "Despite Ban, Child Camel Jockeys Are Still Racing"

In 2005, the United Arab Emirates finally caved to international pressure to ban children, many of whom were slaves, from being jockeys in camel races. However, Anti-Slavery International claims that as recently as last month, children were seen competing in dangerous races in Abu Dhabi. Despite claims that children have been replaced by robots in the sport, the practice of using enslaved and exploited kids to drive camels for sport continues in UAE.

The use of children as camel jockeys goes back years in countries around the Persian Gulf, including the UAE. Camel racing is a popular sport in this region, and for years racing companies would traffic children from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Northern Africa to ride and whip the camels into the winners circle.

The treatment of these children was appalling. To make them as light as possible for racing, many children were intentionally starved and stunted in their growth; some subsided on as little as a couple biscuits a day. They were forced to work 18 hour days for little or no pay. Some of the children were sexually abused in the camps near the racetracks where they lived. Children as young as four have been used as camel jockeys.

http://news.change.org/stories/despite-ban-child-camel-jockeys-are-still-racing


BTW, you consider kidnapping, starvation, and forced labor of children to be "old news" not fit to talk about if it happened in 2004-05?

[Cleita]

89. And this has what to do with the Al Jazeera news?

Also, we have a politician here in the USA who wants to use children as janitors in their schools. What do you say about that? I don't condone the practice or a lot of the cultural things that persist in the ME like their treatment of women, but change is coming and instead of condemning a country that really is trying to come into the twenty-first century out of the twelfth century, without their citizens having to hit the streets to be shot at by their army, is really what the ugly American image is all about. Nice way to make friends and more importantly influence those new friends.

And this has what to do with the Al Jazeera news considering that they have done several reports on this situation?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2007/07/2008525125853552371.html

Browse the website. Learn something.

[HiPointDem]

93. The article is about Dubai, run by the Al-Maktoum family since 1833, also creatures of the British.

But they don't own Al-Jazeera.

Qatar is a slave-labor camp run by the Al-Thanis, owners of Al-Jazeera.

our search - (filetype:html ) qatar indentured labor - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing &quot filetype:html ) qatar indentured labor".

Your search - (filetype:html ) qatar slave labor - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing &quot filetype:html ) qatar slave labor".

Your search - (filetype:html ) qatar labor violations - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing &quot filetype:html ) qatar labor violations".

Your search - (filetype:html ) qatar labor standards - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing &quot filetype:html ) qatar labor standards".

http://www.aljazeera.com/Services/Search/?q=qatar%20labor%20standards&s=as_q&r=15&o=any&t=r

[Cleita]

95. The ban which came from the United Nations applied to all the ME countries that used child

camel jockeys including Qatar. Just because that article was about UAE doesn't mean that it didn't cover Qatar as the National Geographic article did. If you are so hot and bothered about their reporting do Mosaic on Link TV which airs news coverage from all over the ME or RT on the internet. They all are from different countries and pretty much are on the same page as Al Jazeera's coverage of Syria, which is what this thread was about before you hi-jacked it. Al Jazeera is the easiest to access and I'm grateful because our worthless press doesn't give enough coverage ever since Ted Turner sold CNN.

[HiPointDem]

96. Did Al-Jazeera report on labor violations inside Qatar? Has it ever? I can't find it. What does a

UN ban on child labor have to do with actual practices in Qatar or the impartiality of Al-Jazeera's reporting? I can find stories about slave labor in China, discrimination against blacks in Norway, arrest of porn rings in the US -- but nothing along those lines ever happens in Qatar apparently.

[Cleita]

97. The English version doesn't report much about Qatar, but that's probably

because local stuff wouldn't be of interest to an international audience IMHO.

[HiPointDem]

99. LOL. China is also "local stuff". So are Egypt, Syria, Russia, Bahrain, Norway and other locales

Al-Jazeera has reported negatively on.

You're saying discrimination against black Norwegians is a hot topic for international audiences? Please.

[Cleita]

103. Well, I gotta say buh bye.

You just have a stick up your ass about a ME country you know nothing about and you would rather wallow in ignorance than admit your biases and prejudices. You are a waste of my time.

Sayonara

[HiPointDem]

104. How many times is that now that you've called me 'ignorant' and otherwise attacked me personally?

Now count how many times I've attacked you personally.

[sad sally]

46. Saying Assad must go validates the US mercenaries currently operating in Syria.

Via Jeremy Scahill, this news from Alakhbar English (Lebanese paper) on the WikiLeaks Stratfor emails:

US government officials requested that an American private security firm contact Syrian opposition figures in Turkey to see “how they can help in regime change,” the CEO of one of these firms told Stratfor in a company email obtained by WikiLeaks and Al-Akhbar.

James F. Smith, former director of Blackwater, is currently the Chief Executive of SCG International, a private security firm with experience in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. In what appears to be his first email to Stratfor, Smith stated that his “background is CIA” and his company is comprised of “former DOD [Department of Defense], CIA and former law enforcement personnel.”

“We provide services for those same groups in the form of training, security and information collection,” he explained to Stratfor. (doc-id5441475)

In a 13 December 2011 email to Stratfor’s VP for counter-terrorism Fred Burton, which Burton shared with Stratfor’s briefers, Smith claimed that “[he] and Walid Phares were getting air cover from Congresswoman [Sue] Myrick to engage Syrian opposition in Turkey (non-MB and non-Qatari) on a fact finding mission for Congress.”

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2012/04/02/stratfor-emails-pentagon-hired-mercenaries-intervening-in-syria-since-december/

James Smith told Scahill “he’s been operating in both Syria & Libya the past year” but that “Stratfor’s internal description of his work was ‘inaccurate.’” The December date of the emails coincides with previous Stratfor revelations about covert operations inside Syria.

[Art_from_Ark]

115. According to John Adams, those were roughly the same ratios

that existed at the time of the American Revolution

http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=TTCj-SUyf9oC&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=proportion+of+supporters+of+American+Revolution&source=bl&ots=vjzcxckjHm&sig=vY7th_s-gsh2P-VNjXuycFzsBD4&hl=ja#v=onepage&q=proportion%20of%20supporters%20of%20American%20Revolution&f=false

[geek tragedy]

18. Who pimps a dictator like Assad on a progressive website? Nt

[pinboy3niner]

20. The internets must be back up again in Damascus :)

[RZM]

33. While I've never quite seen anybody here overtly pimping dictators like Qadaffi and Assad

A lot of posters come very close to doing so. The usual approach is to change the subject to past and present US misdeeds, point out bad things about the rebels, and peddle the false narrative that being too much on the side of rebels and/or against the dictators makes one a proponent of war between the US and the country in question.

[center rising]

22. Who is this Bashir Assad???

The whole freaking world wants Assad to step down. Anyone who doesn't, condones the killing going on in Syria!!

[jberryhill]

23. Thank you for bringing rare unity to DU

[msanthrope]

39. Reread the thread...the guy's got support....nt

[Beacool]

25. Assad, is that you?

You ask that question after Assad has had thousands of his people butchered????????

You must have supported Gaddafi too.

This place is plum crazy.

[dionysus]

45. ahem.. just where have YOU been young lady? gallavanting around, i am sure...

[Beacool]

106. An Easter banky!!!!!!!!

Thank you, it's so pretty!!!!

I come, read the headlines, peruse some of the articles, comment here and there, and then move on. I don't participate as much as DU2.

I hope that all is well with you.

Happy Passover / Easter!!!!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

51. The place is crazy because one dude posted a fringe opinion and is getting pounded for it?

[Beacool]

107. Nope, it's always been nutty.

BTW, I love Mafalda, Susanita and the rest of the gang!!!!

[Fool Count]

26. That is just an example of wishful thinking on her part. And an example of party-line

narrow-mindedness on the part of most commenters on this thread. Hillary must have just read
Steve Jobs' biography and decided to give a go to his famous "reality distortion field" to achieve
one of the long-standing goals of US foreign policy - regime change in Syria. She thinks that she,
with valuable help from brainwashed American public, can wish Assad into resigning, regardless
of what Syrian people want. It's like another variation on the "Secret" - if you wish for something
really-really strongly it should somehow come true. Just keep repeating "Assad must go, Assad
must go, Assad must go,..." and, who knows, he may go. This approach may somewhat lack in
effectiveness, but it sure as hell is less costly than what McCain proposes, and is definitely more
humane than bombing Syria. So she certainly gets points for that. The only down side here, really,
is that if somehow Assad fails to comply and doesn't go, she and the whole US government would
look silly and lose credibility, but that's just what international community expects from them anyhow.

[leftynyc]

63. Do you honestly believe

SOS Clinton is expressing her own views here? Don't you think if she was expressing something not in line with the administration we would have heard about it with either her firing or resignation. Do people understand what her job is?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. It's an ambitious politician trying on her tough guy cowboy hat for 2016.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

[MADem]

29. A person with a moral center, speaking in her official capacity as SECSTATE of the USA, voicing the

POV of the present leadership of our nation.

Lots of tinpot dictators are supported by those who benefit from a brutal regime--it doesn't make it right.

[onenote]

35. Hit, meet run

[Kaleva]

36. "the rebels that are perpetuating atrocities against the people of Syria."

LOL

[WilliamPitt]

37. This place cracks me up lately.

[dionysus]

43. it ain't your father's DU anymore will....

[LeftishBrit]

40. A lot of people in Syria are saying exactly that...

and too many said it, and are now dead.

This isn't 'Extreme Right Dictators' Underground'; I think you may have missed your stop.

[dionysus]

42. ROFL ... "the rebels that are perpetuating atrocities against the people of Syria."

[Ikonoklast]

54. By splattering them with their blood, I suppose.

Damn rebel scum, got my boot dirty while I was kicking his teeth out.

[Comrade Grumpy]

110. "Syria rebels committed serious abuses, Human Rights Watch says"

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/20/world/la-fg-syria-rights-report-20120321

Syria rebels committed serious abuses, Human Rights Watch says

Human Rights Watch alleges Syrian opposition fighters have carried out kidnappings and torture, and reportedly executions, in contrast to their freedom fighter image.

March 20, 2012|By Patrick J. McDonnell, Los Angeles Times

Syria'sarmed rebels have committed "serious human rights abuses," including kidnappings and torture, and reportedly executions, of security personnel and civilians, Human Rights Watch said Tuesday.

The group painted a dark picture that is in stark contrast to the "freedom fighter" image that the rebels and their political allies outside Syria have sought to project to the world.

[cali]

47. hey honey, go peddle your support for that murderous fuckwad dictator somewhere else.

[Little Star]

91. +1

[AtomicKitten]

56. Who is she? She's the Secretary of State. You're welcome.

[The Northerner]

57. Agreed. The Syrian people should manage their affairs and

the US people should manage their affairs.

Foreign sovereignty must be respected.

[HangOnKids]

65. Clown Car

More clowns climbing in.

[The Northerner]

66. Is there something wrong with respecting a foreign country's sovereignty?

Should US politicians dictate the affairs of other countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Vietnam, Somalia, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Bolivia, etc.?

How would you react if another country's government decided that it would decide the affairs of the US and not the US people themselves?

[leftynyc]

59. She's Pres Obama's Secretary of State

doing the bidding of the administration. Was this a trick question or just a foolish one?

[Egalitarian Thug]

62. A free human being. n/t

[malaise]

71. When did that ever matter to the imperialists? n/t

[Autumn]

92. Obama's employee, speaking for him

[Beacool]

108. She's not Obama's "employee".

Cabinet members may serve at the behest of the president, but they have to be confirmed by Congress and they are not considered to be the president's employees. We, the American people, pay their salaries; including Obama's. They are all OUR employees.

[Drunken Irishman]

111. I'm guessing you probably threw in less than a cent of your tax dollars to pay her salary...

So, really, your opinion is worth no more than a cent on this matter.

[Beacool]

112. It's worth the same as everyone else's on this board.

[Drunken Irishman]

113. I'm not demanding Hillary, or Barack for that matter, speak for me.

A) I didn't elect her - she was chosen by Obama.

B) I didn't elect Obama under the impression he was to do my personal bidding.

And I don't look at Clinton as my employee. She was an Obama appointment and does his bidding - not mine.

[Beacool]

114. Well, that's your opinion and I have mine.

Nonetheless, her salary and Obama's are ultimately paid by the tax payers.

[FarCenter]

101. She's Plenipotentiary High Commissioner for Implementing Regime Change when we say so?

[Beacool]

109. Let's see if you still think that Assad should stay in power after reading this.

Syria Children's Torture By Security Forces Revealed

For 13-year-old Hossam, the "ultimate pain" of his torture at the hands of the Syrian forces was when the "terrifying person" with the "huge body" wearing "black and black" drove a screwdriver up into his big toe nail before ripping it out with pliers.

"He was shouting at me, 'You want freedom? You want to topple the regime?' And he beat me. They asked me, 'What is your name? What is your father's name? Where are you from? Why did you join the protest?' He showed me a video and said 'Isn’t that you?' I said no and he beat me. 'Isn’t that you?' No. He beat me. 'Isn’t that you?' Yes. He beat me more."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/syria-children-torture_n_1402581.html

[KG]

116. the US sounds pretty ridiculous on the issue as it maintains brutal occupations in afghanistan and

iraq.

[lunatica]

117. Another hit and run poster

Why don't you stay and convince DUers of your righteousness?