If 'Obamacare' Falls, Will 'Medicare for All' Rise?:

[Better Believe It]

If 'Obamacare' Falls, Will 'Medicare for All' Rise?
Many observers see opening if Supreme Court kills Affordable Care Act
by Common Dreams staff
April 2, 2012

After last week's deliberations before the US Supreme Court over Obama's signature health care reform legislation, the Affordable Care Act, speculation is rampant about the political fallout if the nation's highest court knocks down some, or all, of the law.

Conservatives would see a move to throw out the law (which they derisively call 'Obamacare') as a victory, whereas Democrats and those who championed the legislation would consider it an affront to jurisprudence and a defeat of the president's largest domestic policy initiative. Progressives, however -- who only reluctantly accepted the law's passage after their preferred alternatives, either a single-payer system or a 'public option', were ruled out -- may ultimately be the ones who claim victory if the Supreme Court invalidates the 'individual mandate' or the entirety of the Affordable Care Act.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/02-0


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Why Overturning ‘Obamacare’ Could Lead To Single-Payer
by Sahil Kapur
Talking Points Memo
April 2, 2012

If the Supreme Court strikes down “Obamacare,” Republicans claim a huge short-term victory, but they may end up big losers in the long run. The future of the nation’s health care system would be thrown into disarray, and conservatives may be forced to swallow a more bitter pill.

The prospect of moving toward a more liberal, government-controlled health care system is fraught with political peril, and therefore far from inevitable, but may wind up being the only way to prevent the demise of the unsustainable, existing system from leaving many more millions without access to health care. Without a mechanism like an individual mandate to cover the uninsured and tackle the free-rider problem, health care costs are set to rise at an unsustainable rate and compel potentially drastic action from Congress.

“Conservatives may find that they weren’t careful about what they wished for in opposing ‘Obamacare,’” Adam Winkler, a constitutional law professor at UCLA School of Law, told TPM. “The economic, social and political pressure for health care reform aren’t going to just disappear. There’s a reason every major industrialized country has national health care. If the Supreme Court invalidates the Affordable Care Act, we are likely to see a government takeover of health care in the next decade.”

In that scenario, progressives could turn to two alternatives that have proven successful at lowering costs in other countries: A single-payer plan a la Medicare but for everyone, or a two-tier system in which private and public insurers compete. Both concepts are anathema to Republicans, but their constitutionality is not in doubt — and the GOP has been unable to devise a replacement plan, which could give liberals ammunition for their cause.

Read the full article at:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/why-overturning-obamacare-could-lead-to-single-payer.php?ref=fpa


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Supreme Court Judges Have Access to Guaranteed Care, Shouldn’t You?
by Rose Ann DeMoro
Rose Ann DeMoro is executive director of the 160,000-member National Nurses United
March 30, 2012

Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Stephen Breyer did not have much in common during the three days of debate on the 2010 healthcare law before the Supreme Court March 26-28.

But they did share one essential characteristic. All four will never have to worry about guaranteed access to healthcare.

It’s because all four are over 65, and thus eligible for Medicare – which gives the four justices the same guaranteed coverage that every other American at 65 has. The same coverage that all Americans need and deserve.

Single payer, Medicare for all. If Medicare is good enough for grandma, and for Scalia and Breyer and Kennedy and Ginsburg, it ought to be good enough for all of us.

Read the full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/03/30-0


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Healthcare Jujitsu: A Path to Medicare for All
by Robert Reich
March 27, 2012

So why not Medicare for all?

Because Republicans have mastered the art of political jujitsu. Their strategy has been to demonize government and seek to privatize everything that might otherwise be a public program financed by tax dollars (see Paul Ryan’s plan for turning Medicare into vouchers). Then they go to court and argue that any mandatory purchase is unconstitutional because it exceeds the government’s authority.

Obama and the Democrats should do the reverse. If the Supreme Court strikes down the individual mandate in the new health law, private insurers will swarm Capitol Hill demanding that the law be amended to remove the requirement that they cover people with pre-existing conditions.

When this happens, Obama and the Democrats should say they’re willing to remove that requirement – but only if Medicare is available to all, financed by payroll taxes.

If they did this the public will be behind them — as will the Supreme Court.

Read the full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/03/27-0

[Uncle Joe]

1. I would certainly hope so and see no reason as to why it shouldn't

Thanks for the thread, Better Believe It.

[DonCoquixote]

3. No

Beacuse the MSM, which has the full brainpower of the masses, will keep bleating "The reason Obama fell because healthcare is too leftist for america!"over and over over and over. However, there is something to be said about an election oppritunity, in that when the GOP start gloating about it, they will look really, really awful (provided we press the issue and do not let the media go back to talking of Snooki's baby.)

[Uncle Joe]

4. The Internet is rapidly changing that equation.

"Beacuse the MSM, which has the full brainpower of the masses, will keep bleating "The reason Obama fell because healthcare is too leftist for america!"over and over over and over. However, there is something to be said about an election oppritunity, in that when the GOP start gloating about it, they will look really, really awful (provided we press the issue and do not let the media go back to talking of Snooki's baby.)"

Not mention more progressive networks have come into being than just a decade ago, whether it be MSNBC or Current.

[geek tragedy]

2. Wishful Thinking, Department of

The Republicans on the Supreme Court would vote down Single Payer if it passed by some miracle.

[Better Believe It]

8. On what basis would the Supreme Court rule that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional?

If a Medicare for All single payer system were declared unconstitutional, the Supreme Court would also have to declare Medicare and Social Security illegal and end both programs by judicial decree!

I don't think that's very likely.

And outside of mass riots, if not insurrection in the streets, what do you think the reactions of tens of millions of people would be to a ruling that Medicare and Social Security are illegal?

[geek tragedy]

11. If the Roberts court had been sitting after WWII, they would have struck

thosestruck those programs down.

Last week, they were musing on the constitutionality of Medicaid.

[Better Believe It]

13. Democratic Senators would not have voted for such right-wing nominations to the court after WWII.

Scratch any right-wing member of the current court and you will find Democrats voting for their nomination to the court.

Democratic Senators gave up the right to filibuster against Bush's nominations in 2005! Remember that deal cooked up by the "gang of 14" Republicans and Democrats?

[arely staircase]

22. they may

be about to do just that -blow up Medicaid. They are seriously concidering arguments that could very well destroy Medicaid. This would call into question many federal programs that have been around for decades including Medicare.

[ProSense]

5. Sure it

If the Supreme Court strikes down “Obamacare,” Republicans claim a huge short-term victory, but they may end up big losers in the long run. The future of the nation’s health care system would be thrown into disarray, and conservatives may be forced to swallow a more bitter pill.

...will. After all, having the system "thrown into disarray," scoring a "short-term victory," will suddenly turn the Republicans, who are determined to turn Medicare into a voucher system, into single payer advocates.

What's to stop them for using a sytem in disarry and a victory to advance their goal to dismantle the safety net?

[Honeycombe8]

6. I think there would be a big movement to push for that, since the moderate path had been tried. nt

[neverforget]

7. I'd like to think so but a rational Republican Party needs to be found plus

money due to Citizens United won't allow it.

[Uncle Joe]

10. The mandate and transfer of 1/2 trillion in tax dollar to the for profit "health" insurance industry

will supply much more money to the Citizens United fight against single payer than is currently the case.

[cr8tvlde]

9. Indeed May it be So

Thank you for this perspectivev and bit of hope for those under 65.

Perhaps some real-life math of the cost of the "uninsured" that happen not to conveniently fall dead in the street will begin to get coverage in the media. Americans are good and kind-hearted people albeit poorly or rabidly informed, but left to reason when both sides start to emerge, yes, we will do the right thing in the end.

[freshwest]

12. Reich makes a great case there. But with a teabagger majority in the House, how would it be funded?

[ProSense]

14. Well,

when the law is struck down and while the Republicans are celebrating their SCOTUS victory, President Obama wins re-election by a landslide and Democrats gain significant majorities in the House and Senate, allowing them to pass single payer.

[dkf]

15. Bernie Sanders says there are minimal votes for single payer.

[freshwest]

24. But there are still enough votes for Medicare. Wouldn't Medicare4All be single payer?

The premiums are already graduated. For those on the standard Medicare program, they are income sensitive. That is the non-profit plan, not Medicare Advantage. An expansion of regular Medicare would be single-payer in everything but the name. Unless you mean something else.

And if Obamacare is not struck down, it will end the for profit health insurance because of the many parts of it that are due to be implemented incrementally. The profit motivation is already being attacked by many of the provisions and that's why they fought so hard.

One of them is on their advertising budget. They'd been adding that to cost of care, but Obamacare ruled that out, starting next year. The biggest problem we've had is losing the media narrative and watching the public fed misinformation and demagogued. But there is a tremendous amount of work that went into making a gradual change over to full government insurance.

ProSense described how it would employ the people who worked at the insurance companies by hiring them to work for the government handling claims under the rules of Obamacare, not denying benefits. If they didn't want to, they could instead draw 2 years of unemployment as they look for work elsewhere.

I may be wrong but this is what i remember from threads here on DU.

[freshwest]

17. Alll Riiiight!!!

[Gman]

16. The Republics don't care about the long term

they're all about winning the next election, regardless of the long term consequences of their actions. They'll later spin the consequences as something Democrats caused. It's another vicious unsustainable cycle.

[Walk away]

18. Obama and the Democrats no longer control Congress. Those days are over if they ever...

actually existed in the first place.

[arely staircase]

19. i have no doubt the house of reps will get right on it

I believe boenher has already said fast walking single payer universal care through the process is his biggest priority and that he simply will not rest until it is done. Then he's gonna raise the minimum wage to twenty bucks an hour.

[Safetykitten]

20. If it gets thrown out, nothing will happen. Absolutely nothing. But insurance companies will

instantly make the changes for them to be more profitable.

[jeff47]

21. These writers are delusional. (nt)

[woo me with science]

23. Only if the people wake up and demand it

rather than accepting and spreading the excuses about why it would never be possible.

[Better Believe It]

27. It will be hard to win if people claiming to be liberal progressives use excuses to not support it.

Like .... it can't pass, or a super majority of Democrats are needed in the Senate and House, Republicans have most people brainwashed to oppose a single payer system, Wall Street and the insurance industry will fight it, blah,blah,blah and blah.

So how many Democrats are needed in the Senate to pass it and stop a fake Republican "procedural filibuster"?

Would 100 Democratic Senators be enough because 40 of them would be conservative "blue dog" Democrats.

I'm tired of hearing excuses and arguments indicating that nothing progressive can be achieved by Democrats because of those nasty Republicans no matter how many Democrats are in Congress.

Just maybe Democratic Senators aren't such raving progressives as some make them out to be and in fact are totally opposed to Medicare for All and will never vote for it unless forced to by a well organized and huge mass movement independent of the politicians and two major political parties.

[subterranean]

25. Not in the near future.

I think most Americans support the idea of Medicare-for-All in principle. But when they're told their taxes will go up, and they'll lose their current insurance (many still have good insurance through their employers), and that they'll have to wait 6 months to see a doctor, and that it's a "government takeover" of 1/5 of the economy, support will drop sharply. Plus the health care lobby will drop a ton of money on a few well-chosen blue-dog congresspersons and Senators, and that will put the kibosh on any serious move to pass single-payer.

[Better Believe It]

28. Nothing good and progressive can ever be accomplished. We should all crawl into a hole and die.

Surrender and submission is the only way to go! Resistance is futile!

Now that's the fighting spirit!

That's the kind of mentality and words of encouragement that enabled working people, women, gays and minorities to accomplish major progressive changes and reforms in our past history!

Not.

[n2doc]

26. More like "Medicare for None" if Ryan and boys have their way n/t

[Better Believe It]

29. Do you think it might help if Democratic politicians supported Medicare for All?

[KharmaTrain]

30. The Issue Will Be Dead For A Generation...

Democrats were dragged into healthcare reform reluctantly with the shivers of "Hillarycare" in their rear views. It was a tough sell to not just blue dogs but moderates in trying to reform a system that is bankrupting millions and degrading the quality of life for millions of others. The political realities of a new administration trying to tackle such a big mountain was sure to run into a lot of resistance and this led to the compromises that watered down the concept from single payer to public option to the final version that barely passed. The scope of this legislation was so vast that specifics got lost in the sensational...death panels got the publicity over the benefits to those who had pre-existing conditions. Overall the administration got caught up in the political minutae and lost the PR war...laying the groundwork for the teabaggers and the circus that the beltway has turned into.

If the ACA is struck down and we're faced with starting over, I don't see any political will for that to happen any time soon. There are few Democrats who will run on the issue and many who will run away from it. Even if the President is re-elected...and even if the Democrats regain the House there will be a focus on many other issues and health care will get lip service as it did for years following the collapse of Hillarycare. It's a shame as more and more of us "boomers" hit the age where years of lack of proper insurance and preventative healthcare will mean a greater squeeze on personal finances and will force even higher rates for all of us.

I wish there was some magic way to create single payer or medicare for all but the power of the lobbyists still have a firm grip on the legislative...

[FourScore]

31. Are democrats really this delusional?

Hello???

First of all, we don't control the House. Secondly, the ACA was political suicide for the Democrats and is attributed by many (although I find it debatable) as the sole reason the Dems lost control of the House. Thirdly, if the mandate (and possibly the whole bill) is killed by the right-wing Justices, then that will only invigorate the likes of Ryan to kill medicare and medicaid. And finally, if the Supes overturn the mandate, health care reform is dead. Period.

[Better Believe It]

36. Self-delete

Deleted

[Doctor_J]

32. Ridiculous

One reason we've lost so much ground over 20 years is that no matter how bad things are, we convince ourselves that waiting patiently for the right wing to self-destruct will win the day. The repeal of ACA will mean loass of insurance for millions -period. Well, that, and a major political victory for the far right.

Time to stop yammering and start fighting.

[Sheepshank]

33. NO

for the simple fact that Obama has a lot of eggs in the ACA basket. If he fails, and should this be a turning point for Romney, Romney will kill everything and anything suggestable to health care. He will never address anything health care....and the whole OP becomes moot and a ridiculous posturing of made up possibilities.

The fact that you are constantly submitting articles that attempt to NOW interject other health care options is nothing short of ludicrous and divisive on the health care issue. Now is NOT the time to be throwing out alternatives. Now is the time to support what we have and build on it just like Medicare, just like Social Security in it's infancy stages and just as was indicated in the original plan for nationalized health care plan.

Your attempt to constatnly derail this issue is bothersome and employs a complete RW tactic. Frankly I'm sick of it. Congrats you are person #2 in my many years here to make it on the "can't be bothered to read your drivel" list. If there was every a time I may have accidentally read something you posted that was supportive, I may have felt differently, but you are on one track only.

[quinnox]

37. lol, if you hate reading progressive articles then don't

but claiming posting progressive oriented articles are a right wing tactic is utterly bizarre.

[Sheepshank]

40. Bizarre, is not rcognizing the recurring meme of the OP

regardless of where he finds an article. And you know just as much as I do, the "progressive" viewpoint and related articles on ACA ranges the length and breadth of possibilities....it's what the OP tends to harp on that is in question and the tactic that is completely RW.

[dionysus]

41. +100000

[kenny blankenship]

34. If the Democratic Party does not swiftly adopt Single Payer...

(if the Supreme Court strikes down the Individual Mandate to purchase from a predatory cartel, thus making all such private sector based schemes legally impossible,)

...then you will know the Democrats were never on your side in the first place.

[quinnox]

35. It is possible, but the Democrats are most likely too cowardly to even bring it up

They would be too scared of the big bad republicans calling them commies or socialists or something similar for even daring to bring it up. The Democratic party has been cowardly like this for a long time now. It would require courage and boldness to do this, but that is in short supply these days among Democratic politicians.

Still, in the event the supreme court does throw it out, it will be a huge opportunity for the Democrats and also take a big issue off the table for the republicans, which ironically will probably ensure the defeat of Romney in the election and may even help the Democrats re-take the congress, because the republicans look like fools when they have nothing to offer regarding health care and the broken system, and the issue would come back to the national focus which helps Democrats.

[Amaril]

38. Something needs to happen

The medical situation in this country is simply beyond the pale.

I'm scheduled for a relatively minor (should take about 20 minutes) procedure on Friday, that may or may not work to correct a serious (and life-altering -- I've missed 5 days of work in the last two weeks because of this problem) medical issue I'm having and just got a call from the surgery center letting me know that even with my primo insurance plan (my employer offers three different ones -- I chose the one with the lowest - $500 - deductible and pay twice as much per month for it as those with the $1000 deductible), my portion of the procedure is going to be $1,258.20 (and that's taking into consideration that I've already met more than half of my deductible, and it doesn't include the doctor's fee -- that's just for the freaking surgical center)........oh, but if I agree to give them my credit card number today, they'll knock 20% off, so I only have to come up with $1,006.56.

For some people that may not be a lot of money, but for me it's a freaking fortune, and my only choices are to empty my savings account and pay what they're asking or forego the procedure which could - literally - place my life in jeopardy. Some fucking choice..........BUT, I really shouldn't complain because at least I *have* insurance and money in savings (just barely) to cover it. Other people are not so fortunate.

[Cleita]

39. Something will rise because both the public and health care givers are fed up.

They want a change from our casino health care system as it is.

[cali]

42. the stubborn stupidity of these pathetic pieces discourages me.

self-deluding fools.