All I want to say to the younger generation:

[Ron Green]

Is to please start showing up at the meetings, rallies, caucuses and events for activist and progressive causes. Whether it's health care reform, climate action, the Occupy reading group, Move to Amend or any other group I've worked with in the past several years, 90% of the people in the trenches are gray. I understand the oldsters may have more time to do the work, but without young folks involved there won't be enough energy to sustain the fight.

Maybe where you live it's different. If so, how do you bring to a rally 1% of the kids who go to a football game?

[Autumn]

1. Because of my rheumatoid arthritis I haven't been able to do any

political meeting for a few years but one thing I do know is when I was able to do it the young people were for the most part MIA. That's here in Colorado.

[Chaco Dundee]

2. well said

If younger people keep dodging there responsibility to get active they will have to live with what they will experience.not a pretty picture. It's already late in in the game and silly computer games are not the answer to theyre future.

[SheilaT]

3. It's always been that way.

When I was younger I wasn't very active politically. Most younger people are very busy in their lives and doing the political thing doesn't seem that important to most of them.

As I've gotten older and as my own hair has turned gray, I'm much more active. It's always been that way, alas.

[Ron Green]

4. It was different in the '60s.

Perhaps the people my age I see at the meetings and rallies have been doing this all along. It's a cohort.

[Hekate]

6. The draft had an impact on young peoples' consciousness. The prospect of hanging in the morning...

...wonderfully concentrates the mind, as the old saying has it.

[SheilaT]

15. I was born in 1948.

There was a certain degree of more young people being active in the '60's, but I'm not entirely certain it's really that more than today.

I can tell you I was not politically active back then, and I only knew a few people my age then who were. So while that generation maybe overall was more active, it still wasn't a majority by any means. Maybe we just have to hang on until another generation like us Boomers finally comes around, in another twenty years or so.

[Jesus Malverde]

37. The activists from the sixties were so successful at

Stopping the war machine, free trade, reganomics, the war on drugs.



The rose glasses people use to look back fondly ignores the actual reality.

Most boomers dropped out of the mainstream and the void was filled by right wing policies. Boomers conveniently forget the transition from the seventies to the 80s and the rise of the corporate culture.

Whatever happened in the sixties it wasn't lasting change.

[RobertEarl]

38. EPA, CWA, Wilderness lands, etc

Then came the backlash. Much like the modern day Tbagger party.

It created lasting change. It began the evolution of more civil rights and more freedom. Freedom even for the Tbaggers, but that's how it goes.

Harshing on the 60's activist is some lame bs. You should know better, Jesus.

[Enthusiast]

39. Disappointed in this.

[Hekate]

5. I saw it at the rallies against Bush-Cheney: so many old(er) protestors. Do the youngsters think...

... that change magically happens because they wish it to? We've done the work. We're DOING the work. Who will take it up when we no longer can?

But oh my, too many DUers are "old" and "Boomers are selfish" and a bunch of intergenerational divisiveness like that.

[totodeinhere]

7. Yet statistically younger people are more likely to vote for a Democrat

than people in the oldest demographic are. And the average Fox News viewer is over 70 years old. Both generations have their pluses and minuses.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. I just hope they show up at the polls on election day.

[DemocraticWing]

9. Young people are involved, you're just missing us somehow.

I'm getting tired of people taking swipe after swipe of young people for no reason. I don't know why your personal experience leads you to a specific conclusion, but this canard that young people are lazy is ridiculous.

Perhaps we're just at different meetings or something.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. I still say we should push for the ERA and get women involved.

[Earth_First]

11. Dear older generation: please listen to our ideas...

We get tired of listening to the same propositions on activism and how "in the 60's this is how we got it done..."

We have ideas and solutions too.

I cannot tell you how many times I've seen or heard firsthand how new ideas are met with skepticism because of "In our past experience...'xyz' has been shown to work..."

That grows tiresome and turns away fresh, young and talented activists and creates splinter groups all working essentially on the same projects, however with varying degrees of success due to the same problems: turnout.

What is needed is some dialogue among the generations where everyone's ideas are weighted equally and equally utilized with proven techniques.

There isn't a one size fits all solution to the issues we face or we'd have already solved these problems...

Let's give it a shot!

[bravenak]

12. I always vote since Barack Obama told me mine counted.

I did not believe it until he told me so. I did not identify with other politicians for the most part and he understands what it is like to be a mixture of cultures and not be accepted by many for one part of his heritage. My mom is half black half irish and never got accepted by half of her family. Only one of my white uncles even claims us. So when he came about i felt excited! Then with the constant bashing, i got disheartened and many of my peers got furious and withheld their vote thinking that nobody cared about people who look like them and are pissed off at the lack of support for politicians WE support, but are expected to love the candidates pushed by the majority. I voted in 2010, but i can think of at least 20 folks who did not vote for the candidates who were trying to run in 2010 because they saw the racist tea party backlash and the lack of support he received from democrats.
We like the President and will vote for candidates who support him but will not be guilted into voting by the talk downs or the fear of loss. How much worse can it get for us? We live in constant financial depression anyway, always have. Someone told me that once it gets just as bad for the majority as it is for minorities, they will see how we feel and fight with us not against us. Instead of trying to maintain their positions in society, they will see what we see.

[RobertEarl]

13. How much worse can it get...?

Are you kidding? It can get a whole lot worse, and it would have been if it hadn't been for people showing up at meetings, rallies, and other public protests against the machine which would make slaves of all of us ... if we let them.

Obama told us in 2008 that he had to have us fighting for the future. We've failed. Our continued failure and keeping up our habits of divisiveness is a sure path to letting them make slaves of us all.

We all enjoy much today many things that long gone activists gained for us. I would venture to say that they are very disappointed in our current activities.

To those who have reticence about joining and fighting; i say what you must do is realize it is YOUR future you are fighting for and you must strive to Occupy the seats of power.

This old fart is retired now and looks with pride upon its Occupations, but with fear of the future because hardly anyone gives a damn if it doesn't make them a buck.

Oh, it can get worse and you may well live to see it. As may i. If i live that long.

[bravenak]

16. For Black people dude.

How much worse can it get for us ( black people). We have been historically on the bottom and living in poverty. We are already where you are worried about ending up. look at black unemployment over the last 50 years- we have been in a depression since the great depression. Can't get much worse than that.

[RobertEarl]

17. Ok, lets try this.....

How will you make it better? What activities do you think we should all do to improve this uncertain future?

[bravenak]

20. Okay.

1. Schools should be free up to an AA or technical degree. Free Jr. College.
2. Punishment for not violent drug crimes should be and education trade training program and Caltrans ( work program, community service) a small fine to cover court costs, and probation.
3. Voting rights returned as soon as released from jails
4. Better housing programs and end the welfare reform ( it targets the poor)
5. Cash payments for welfare increased to 1500 a month and a minimum wage of 18 per hour.
6. Amnesty for undocumented people and free programs to help new citizens assimilate.
7. Increase of at least 100 percent in funding housing and food programs.
8. Free lunch to all students up to 18 years of age
9. More music education for students
10. Mandatory bilingual education all students must learn a second language
11. End profiling and the suing of departments that engage in it.
12. Review of all criminal cases to find sentence disparities and the lowering of sentences for those who have been violated by the system and reparation made to the victims of profiling
13. Veteran housing
14. More accessible senior housing and assistance for the disabled
15. Wage reviews to determine if pay disparities are occurring. If they are payments must be made by employers to the employees they shafted.
16. Taxes on incomes of more that one million at 50 percent, more that a billion at 80 percent . No one gets a billion dollars that fast with out being a crook.
17. Capital gains tax rise and a transaction tax.
18. Give back the native americans 20 percent of the land available and owned by the government for their use and control. There should be a contiguous mass so they can have a sovereign nation or it should be negotiated with the tribes.
19. Reparations to Blacks and natives in the form of cash payments, and any hispanics that were discriminated and a review of reparations to asian american to see if the were repaid in full plus interest.
20. Review of death row inmates and new trials should be easier to get.
21. No more all white juries judging minorities. They have shown bias many many times and innocent black men were murdered by the state for crimes they did not commit. ( everyone should get a review since we don't know what the fuck we are doing)
22. End the drug war and put in place centers for user to purchase their drugs from a pharmacist. They must be combined with in patient and out patient rehabilitation centers, with a sober living component in town. Must watch a film on the dangers before you are prescribed meds and must have a purchase limit. ( some substances should remain banned, some should be regulated)


I have much more but i thought this was getting long.

[RobertEarl]

22. That was long

There is much wrong in this country. And then there is global warming. And don't forget about nuke plant disasters.

So, how come we can't get people to even vote, much less get involved? If we had movement toward accomplishing the things on your list, would they be inspired to get up from the TV and Occupy the halls of government?

I had hoped Obama would have made great strides by now on many items on your list, or has he and I don't see it?

In my view, had we not squandered so much on weapons and war, we could have made progress. So, for me, the astronomical war budget has always been a major mistake leading to less money for education, homes, and all the good people programs like medical care and environmental safety.

Good luck! We're gonna need it. Not even Obama get elected stemmed the tide.

[bravenak]

23. The reason we can't get people to vote...

Is because we don't respect their ideas or incorporate them into the platform.
I created that list today about half an hour ago. I do not see how it could be possible for him to have read my list and incorporated it into the platform, much less initiate them into action. He would need to time travel.

Every time a younger person lists the things they want to do prompted by someone else to list them, they never want to discuss the ideas they listed. They just want to work on their own personal goals without incorporating new ideas or even discussing them. Whose going to vote for your platform with you if you don't want to let they have any say in what's in the platform. This is why the vote will not get out. We resent people who withhold their votes and do not want to listen to their ideas and give them something to vote for. The president needs the support of people who are going to help him pass legislation. He wont get the votes until we get the voters, we wont get the voters by slamming him all day or ignoring their needs and concerns.

[RobertEarl]

24. Whoa.....

Do you think you just invented the perfect government with your list?

Truth is those things on your list have been flying around for a long time.

There is not really much new there to Liberal old timers.

Even your subsequent attack on the old timers for 'not listening' is not new. Heh, we used the same line 50 years ago!

So round and round we go......

What I would like to hear is how do we get people to leave the TV and go Occupy the halls of power. I've done it myself... pretty much alone... and sometimes with loose affiliations of groups such as the Dem party. Why did I do it? Why did I spend so much time and effort? Because: Country, and people needed someone to do it. And because with a bit of a huff and a puff, the doors swung open and there I was occupying some space in the halls.

One thing I learned and a word of advice: Never attack someone who is on your side fighting for the same things. Never... it is useless it is wasteful and it just plays into the hands of the powerful who know if they can keep us divided, they can just go their merry way.

I get the personal angst that some might feel seeing Obama get questioned. But damnit, he told us to question him; to hold his feet to the fire. So when are we gonna start the fire? It's getting cold in here!

[bravenak]

25. No. No government is perfect.

But i did just make up that list off the top of my head. I am not attacking you. I am telling you what the problem is. Nevermind, you don't need to think about it at all.
His feet get held to the fire so much i am surprised he can walk. I am letting you know that these groups get offended by the constant bashing and will not vote for your candidate if you always bash theirs. Why should they? To prevent a depression? These groups have always lived in economic depression. They are not afraid because they live that life.
And getting pissed for hearing that people do not want to be treated like afterthoughts is not helpful.

[RobertEarl]

26. Gonna withold your vote?

Heh, path to failure there. GOTV. For Dems. Did i really need to say that?

I campaigned hard as hell for Obama in 2008. So don't give me some lesson about what I can and can't say about what he has done. Your doing so is an act of oppression and is not welcome.

Tried to tell you that your list is not new. Guess that surprised you? You think Obama could not come up with a bigger, better list himself? But you make the claim he would have to time travel to do so? Don't make me laugh.

You don't piss me off. What does piss me off is that same attitude of yours that i have fought for years and years. The attitude that says "I'm right and your'e stupid". Yeah, that's what I read from you.

Basically I tell you, you are right about your list. That went right over your head. Along with the fact that we have heard it all before. Even Obama has heard it before. So why isn't he listening to you? Why doesn't he invite you to DC and listen to you? He's had lots of bankers there. And plenty of big shots who are responsible for oppression and denial of the things on your list. Eh? Why not you?

No. Your attack on me and other elders is not going to win you a damn thing. I grew up listening to MLK, he had the right stuff. You may want to study his ways. He was very successful and I'm sure he wishes someone would pick up where he left off. That person. so far, is not Obama. We all wished he did, or was, but alas, not yet. YET. We still hope to see some change.

So, on the one hand you complain that no one listens to you and on the other you have failed to listen to me. You even threaten to withhold your vote!

I would venture to say that someone reviewing your responses would be someone who would not want to risk getting in your way and would step back. See, that's not me. Someone like you I see more as just one more obstacle to overcome. Others are not so vigilant and as focused on the outcome and so do walk away when presented with such 'friendliness'.

And that right there is why it is so hard to get people involved. Some people make getting involved a real pain-in-the-ass. Take a bow?

[bravenak]

27. Is this a joke?

I will no longer see your posts unfortunately. Be well.

[RobertEarl]

30. I'll see yours

You have a voice that could be helpful to many as long as it gets some needed responses that shape it better.

First, being more correct and then being able to admit mistakes when made is a lesson that i see you've not yet learned. So, I will try to help you. You'll eventually read my stuff, we both know it.

Anyway... it would be great if you and Obama could sit down together. I do think he'd tell you much the same as I have: Heard all that. Then he'd say, do what you can to educate others about our goals making sure, as he did in the campaign, to not go around pissing off fellow Dems. He is a master politician and we could all learn from his endeavors.

Then, after your little meet with Obama, you could then begin to hold his feet to the fire while all the time making sure people go vote for Dems so that together, me, you and Obama and the rest of us; we can overcome.

C'ya?

[bravenak]

32. Do you realize that i apologized for that post over and over.

Please stop bashing me. I am leaving now and you can have your peace. I just broke down in tears reading your post and i have gotten nasty messages all day and i am done. You won. I am done being ganged up on by people who i look to for guidance and have respected since before i joined. I relied on you throughout the 2008 election. Thank you for all of you help and information.

[RobertEarl]

33. Heh

DU can be pretty mean. I did not mean to be mean, just trying to help you on your quest to do good. I did not read the post you are talking about, I've only read what you have written here to me tonight. But i do recall remembering your name associated with some pointed replies from way back.

In this thread it is you that replied to me to get this rolling. So don't be going off on me for your problems. Be strong, stand up for what you KNOW is right and then learn the things that you know you can get done and do the workaround to get it done.

Don't take DU too seriously. But don't let it become a joke either. It can be an effective media, but it is a sharp stick at times which comes back atcha. Believe me, I've been there, done that, got the cuts and bruises.

Anyway, get back in there. Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning~!

[bravenak]

34. No sir.

I posted my thought on Ron Green's thread. You replied to me. GOT time, the wall is being attacked by wildlings. Much love.

[RobertEarl]

35. My bad

I made a mistake. Point is that as far as I was concerned our convo was what was going on here, not elsewhere.

Still, my error.

Want a laugh? See this thread of mine....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024946678

[bravenak]

36. You are too much.

Thanks for that. I did laugh out loud.

[napi21]

29. I'm not so sure not voting has anything to do with non respect.

For the last several years Obama and a number of democrats have been pushing for fairness in student loans. I've halped push for that, and I'm 71! I want it for my grandchildren and all the students who are and have been unfairly burdened with high interest rates and other unreasonable demands for payback of those loans, but I sure don't see that it has motivated many younger people around me.

I agree with most of the things on the list above, but you have to understand you can't start out demanding all of them at one time. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. you need to choose 2 or 3 things that are very important to you and work on them constantly and loudly, and in big numbers. I'd be there fighting along your side, but if you don't turn out at rallys, those who do turn out fight for what's important to them. That's why you hear so much about health care and strengthening social security and raising the minimum wage. If enough people want to fight for something different than that, or gt their issues included, you've got to be there to represent your views.

I don't know how to motivate the younger people. I've always taught my kids to vote or shut up. If you don't voice your opinion, an your opposition does, guess who wins? My sons always vote, and have since they were 18.

I suggest that all the older people here on DU strongly encourage their kids & grandkids to get out and vote. If you can convince YOUR family to go to the polls, just maybe they will get their friends to go with them. That would be a good start.

As to the 60's...Jack Kennedy got the youth involved. He was the first presidential candidate who wasn't an "old fart!" He was young, good looking, energetic, and really connected with the 60's generation. Obama has some of that, but not quite as much as Jack did. I really wish there would be another 35 year old Democrat appear on the political scene. THAT would be the motivator we're looking for. Unfortunately, I cant think of anyone like that!

[bravenak]

31. I just see it as a lack of respect because i'm younger and get shut down and hounded when i misspeak

Even if i apologize. So i am suffering under the strain of having so many nasty messages written to me from people i never met who are all older. It is coloring how i view the system and makes me think that there is a willingness to pile on younger people and minorities for saying things they don't agree with and i find it scary and sad. My feeling are hurt, so i might want to just leave it alone for a while. I have never had so many people bash me for an idea that i read on Grio. I am one person. I cannot take the wrath of all of DU. I am sorry. Have a nice evening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. May I add to your list

Legal government boards, committees and all that.

It is down right embarrassing when the principals and an indie reporter are on a first name basis.

But dang it, it's so easy to do things in the shadows that way.

[Brother Buzz]

18. It would be down right embarrassing if the 'principals' and reporters were not on a first name basis

[frazzled]

19. There's only one organization where I see younger people

My experience has been that older citizens far, far outnumber younger people (and even more so, the 25-45 crowd with children, who understandably have less time to participate) at political meetings and working groups. I remember when we'd go to our Democratic town committee meetings back in Massachussetts, my husband and I felt like we were the youngest people in the room, and we were in our 50s already! This is not to say that seniors aren't the smartest, most energetic, and active workers ... but the perspective of young people is sorely needed!

That said, I have been happy to see that at meetings, rallies, and electoral events (canvassing, phone banking), young people are an equal part of mix at Organizing for Action (formerly Organizing for America) events. It's very intergenerational, much more so than regular party meetings and events I've participated in over the years. I've sat at phone banks, gone canvassing, and attended rallies (for gun control, for health care) in which 20-somethings and 70-somethings are working side by side ... and enjoying it.

At least that's how it is here in Chicago.

[napi21]

40. OH, I wish that were true in every area! I'd much rather work along side a 20 something

than another old fart like me. We moved from Pgh, Pa. many years ago because of a job move (1987). I never have been able to blend in with the older nutballs in the south. They're almost ALL racist and antiquated in their thinking. The younger generation, at least some of them, are not like that, and I wish I knew how to get them to to join in canvassing and phone banking here in Ga.

Jason Carter (Jimmy Carter's grandson) is running for Governor of Ga, and so far he's leading in the polls against our current Pub idiot. I'm doing everything I can to support Jason for our new Governor, and Michelle Nunn (former Ga. Sen. Sam Nunn's daughter) to replace Saxby Chambliss in the Senate. Both of those Dem candidates are doing well...so far. I can only HOPE we can convince the majority of Georgians to vote for both of them!

[Chan790]

21. This has been my issue for years...

many/most/all of those groups do a terrible job engaging the youth...then when you bring them ideas to do so, they reject them because "that'll turn off our current volunteers." or "that's too edgy." or "that's not really the kind of organization we want to be." (My dream job is to get my firm (currently being run on shoestrings while I work shitty jobs to finance the startup) doing messaging/social-media/fundraising for NPOs, issue campaigns and political organizations, with an eye towards youth engagement off the ground.)

For an idea of what an effective youth engagement campaign looks like...look at the anti-teen-suicide organization To Write Love on her Arms. (http://twloha.com/) Everything they do is orientated to engaging youth where they are...they table at punk shows, they engage young artists and designers to create their promotional materials, they get endorsements and shout-outs from the voices that their target audience wants to hear from, they create fun viral social media to spread their message, they make the work fun and so it doesn't feel like work, they seek out youth where they are, they're open to any idea to spread their message and are largely youth-led, they're hip, they're fun and they're engaging...and when I bring any of that to an organization like the ones you're talking about...they want to neuter it. It's neither safe nor broad-appeal enough for them. (Realistically, you target different demographics in different ways with different events...sometimes you even use different campaigns and occasionally, different organizations.)

Above all else, talk less and listen more...you may not like what they have to say but it's going to be their world and not yours. Stop dictating agenda. What you think is important to the future isn't necessarily what they think is important and their main complaint is that y'all don't listen to them. They're not stupid...they know what they want.

You want to get the youth involved? Do it on their level and listen to them about how to do it. You aren't going to find the answer here...you might find the answer if you help the local HS start a Democrats club and where-ever they want to take it, let them run with it, put them in charge...you may end up getting 150 deeply-committed liberal 17 year olds to sign up at a tabling event to do GOtV at a shitty basement show of local bands called "Punk the f**k out for Hillary"...and that's great. The local Democratic committee might not love it...but they didn't have any idea how to get 150 17 year olds to do shit so who cares what they think?

When the PTB get pissed, tell your youth horde how to take over the Democratic Town Committee. Most places if 50 of them started showing up and voting and running for delegate, they're be an insurmountable bloc.

[LeftyMom]

28. Nope, that's not condescending at all.