If the job market is so good....

[dickthegrouch]

Why have I not received a single company-generated show of interest in over a year?

One company actually has the nerve to tell me "We already have your profile on file, we'll let you know if anything matching your profile comes up" when I try to submit new profiles to new positions. Many others tell us they keep our resumes for 3-6 months and they'll match to anything appropriate and contact us if so.

It's bullshit!

I have a very varied career in software design, marketing, finance, tech support and crisis management. There are dozens of jobs I could do. I haven't been matched to any of them by the stupid automated resume matchers, ever.

The other thing that makes no sense to me is being told by some 'experts' that you have to tailor your resume to the position description (i.e. yank the position description wording out and insert it in your resume so that the match algorithms have something to match to), and then tell you to submit as quickly as possible because many descriptions close after receiving 100 or 200 applications. I have many instances where less than 30 minutes after receiving notification of a hit on *MY* keyword searches, I have tried to submit a resume and been told that that position can no longer be found.

Companies are losing out on hundreds of good people by limiting their pool to 100-200 applicants. Shareholders should be concerned.

I'm loyal, smart, resourceful and innovative. I live in the best area in the world for my exact field. How do I get noticed/hired?

[MANative]

1. I'm a former corporate HR executive, now running my own small consulting firm.

Sending resumes is almost entirely useless. It's all about networking, and making connections with people who know you well and are willing to make other connections with and for you. My company's research has shown that more than 70% of jobs are filled by a direct connection to someone in the hiring organization. That's been consistent for more than fifteen years, and is also consistent with research conducted by many, many larger firms. Fewer than 8% of jobs are filled through internet job boards like Monster, Indeed, Dice, and CareerBuilder. Stop sending resumes and spend more time building and cultivating your network. Seriously.

[dickthegrouch]

4. Thanks but how does one do that?

Most of my network, particularly previous supervisors, are retired and out of the workforce now.

I am of that age where companies no longer exist, people have moved on, retired or otherwise withdrawn.

I belong to and am active in professional societies.

I'm at my wits end.

[MANative]

6. It's a darned good thing that you're a fellow liberal, otherwise I'd be charging you...

upwards of $200/hour for this advice. Anyhoo... your network is not just your former colleagues, although that's not a bad place to start. Even though someone is retired, he or she may still maintain relationships with people still active in the industry. Join LinkedIn if you haven't already. You'd be surprised at how many old colleagues come out of the woodwork. Talk to everyone about what you're looking for - your neighbors, your barber, your third cousin's best friend's roommate. You never know who may have a connection that could be useful. I've found connections in the most implausible of places and relationships. Use a phrase like this: "I'm networking to improve my career standing, and I'd value your input and opinion. Who do you suggest that I speak with about (fill in the blank)?" It's a huge compliment to be asked for "help" and people rarely refuse. It's an ego stroke for them to do something for someone else. Human nature - I've got 700 pages of scientific study to prove it. (Sad fact: People are born with this tendency, but can "unlearn" it. Serious bummer, but most people in the liberal world hang on to it more than folks on the other side of the proverbial aisle. More documentation to prove that, too.)

Cultivate those relationships when you rekindle them. Don't worry about wooing someone with expensive dinners, etc. Just ask someone to meet you for coffee, or schedule a phone meeting every couple of weeks. Do things to help them with their needs to prove your dependability. Just be careful not to give too much away for free (my biggest problem - I'm a giver, and don't get compensated for nearly enough of the work I do). Turn it into a contract assignment when you can. That often leads to repeat business - longer contracts and permanent roles. Also, don't drop those relationships when you do land something. It'll make you appear like a user rather than a networker if you suddenly disappear back into the ether.

Don't be afraid to talk to people you've been out of touch with in a long time. People love to hear from old friends and colleagues. "You've been on my mind because I know you were always the best person to deal with XYZ problem, and I'd love to hear your perspective on ABC."

Good luck!

[dickthegrouch]

9. Thanks for the advice, MANative

This, in particular, was something I needed to hear:

"Don't be afraid to talk to people you've been out of touch with in a long time. People love to hear from old friends and colleagues. "You've been on my mind because I know you were always the best person to deal with XYZ problem, and I'd love to hear your perspective on ABC."

Although I'll admit talking to everyone is the hardest thing for me to do. I went way outside my comfort zone writing the OP. Telling strangers I need help is a lot easier for me than telling friends or ex-colleagues. I am on Linkedin. I was seriously considering changing my whole profile on there to just a list of the accolades I've received and my Titles and obvious career progression, rather than the virtual duplication of resume that it became a year ago. That would (in my mind) accomplish two things: Show people that I don't necessarily follow the herd by thinking the same way they do, and establish that roughly every two years I've had some sort of career advancement (not necessarily promotion, but a sequence of positions that round out a career). I need a differentiator and that seems like one way to achieve it.

[MANative]

14. Bottom line, your experience is the "price of admission"

But you can't even pay that price if you can't get in the door, and that requires connections and networks. Any company who has a half a clue will evaluate you on two things: first, your "functional" skill - the technical capabilities, and second, your "professional" skill - the people/problem/process stuff. But you won't even get them to look at those things unless someone helps you to open the door. The other really sad factor is that fewer than 15% of companies with 100 employees or less have anyone on staff who is actually trained in how to effectively evaluate and select the best candidate for the job. Even some of the larger companies do a piss-poor job of really evaluating skill/requirement matches. That's why the foot in the door is so critical. Call your friends and don't be afraid to post one-liners on LinkedIn to raise your visibility.

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. That's worth $200/hr? Talk to people? nt

[MANative]

13. Depending on the circumstances, I sometimes get more than that.

My 35 years of experience in the corporate world at some of the largest companies in the country, unique and cutting-edge research in behavioral selection strategies and adult education/development, and hundreds of contacts in my network make it well worth that price. And who are you to question what my knowledge is worth?

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. That particular bit of knowledge is common

so all I can really judge is that it was, in monetary terms, worthless.

[MANative]

22. My clients don't think so. Adieu.

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. Your clients pay $200 for "go talk to people and network?"

You should guard that list with all your skill and might. Someone might undercut you
by $199.99 someday.

[unblock]

27. good grief. i've seen lawyers get paid $1,000 an hour for *me* to tell *them* the legal answers!

i structure financial deals and am rather familiar with the usual contract features, but every time we get a new law firm involved i have to bring them up to speed. they literally get paid to let me teach them.

they do eventually add value that i cannot (not being a lawyer myself), of course. at the same rate, naturally.

[MANative]

29. Good gods, are you seriously that obtuse?

My advice was probably about a tenth of one percent of what I do with my clients (on either side of the hiring equation), and even if it were substantially more, the OP seemed to not be using that strategy and even asked "how to do it" - which I answered for him. And, pray tell, exactly what of substance have you contributed to this discussion other than to attack me and the value of my knowledge? Do you have any idea how many professions are paid at that level and far more to just "talk" to people? As unblock noted, attorneys will quite regularly earn in the neighborhood of $1000/hour, psychologists get up to $400/hour, etc. etc., with the client often doing the bulk of the actual work.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to beat people over the head with my income.

I'm not that insecure. I do, however, know what people get paid, and for what.

You're the one who said that specific advice was priced at $200/hr, which, given its banality and the
existence of LinkedIn, is by about $199/hr too expensive.

Bully for you and your ability to pry hundreds of dollars an hour from unemployed marks desperate for a job.

[MANative]

31. You also don't read very well.

I said on "both sides of the hiring equation." I work far more with corporations than I do with individuals, teaching them how to fix their abysmal hiring practices. And I did not say that that particular piece of advice was worth $200, although it may have been to someone who hadn't thought of it, which is unbelievably common. The tendency for people to get stuck in front of their computers, searching job boards all day for little to no return is very, very high. I was being a bit of a wiseass, but you don't get that either. I'm done with you. To ignore.

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. Wait! I need advice on how to type www.linkedin.com! I was going to pay you $200! nt

[Xyzse]

15. Xyzse = XYZ problem, Second Edition?

I have to use that...
Somehow.

[MANative]

19. I have every confidence that you'll find an appropriate scenario! n/t

[aikoaiko]

28. Buy people stuff

Seriously, "bump" into old friends at coffee houses and buy them a coffee When they say no, say they can get you next time.

Now you've created a reciprocity obligation. And this will help you. Mind you I'm laying this out in a very Machiavellian fashion , but this is what good networkers do naturally.

Chat with them About life and old work/friends by not about needing a job a first.

Rinse repeat.

If you have more cash do lunches or after work drinks.

[BuelahWitch]

35. Hard to buy people stuff when you don't have any cash in-flow

[aikoaiko]

36. I know, but some people are not at zero cash flow and can invest a bit.

For example, if you're buying yourself a weekly latte, forgo it a week and save it to network.

If you're income is so restricted this can't work, then so be it.

[Yavin4]

16. People hire the people they know or know of

That's the key.

[MANative]

18. Exactly. Build your network and your reputation, and you're better than halfway there. n/t

[Orrex]

20. I'm sure that you're correct and that you're describing realty. Sadly...

It's on par with the mountains of financial advice that start with some variation of "start by having a lot of disposable income each month." Sure, it's a great plan, but if you're in a position to implement that plan, then you'd probably be basically ok without it, too.

It's also consistent with my own experience showing that an "insider connection" will trump skill and experience 99% of the time, if only because the connection will make an applicant more likely to get looked at.

[stopbush]

33. I got my last three jobs - all of which paid 6 figures - by sending in resumes

to people I had never heard of. Apparently, sending resumes isn't always entirely useless. I will say that none of those jobs came through the big internet job boards - they were all through arts- and non-profit specific job boards, which is where I'm working these days.

But I am interested in the networking aspect of looking for a job in today's market. As you suggest doing, I'm out there trying to network - everybody I know knows that I am searching for a job right now.

The networking hasn't done anything for me to date. I've attended a few mixers with different networking groups, but I always see the same people at the meet-ups. I'm a little surprised when so many of them say that "I'm not interviewing right now. I'm waiting to get to the right person for the job that I really want." These are people who haven't done an interview in 8-13 months. I'd think you'd want to take an interview just to keep your skills honed.

I've been on LinkedIn for at least 5 years. In that time, I have received a total of ONE contact for a job through LinkedIn, and that was in January. That led to a series of 3 interviews, culminating in an interview with the company president, but I didn't get the job in the end. Still, I update my LinkedIn account every week, out of habit, if nothing else.

So I don't know. I have been trying the networking thing for a couple of years, but I get no interviews or even responses. Sending resumes, on the other hand, still gets me plenty of the same, though I have not landed a job. I still get lots of hits on my resumes, phone interviews and face-2-face interviews. However, I am 59, and though I'm in very good physical shape, I don't look 30 anymore. I have to believe ageism enters into the picture once it gets to the in-person stage of the hiring process. These are all jobs that pay in the $75k - 150k range.

The one area where my resume generates no interest whatsoever is in the job-job market. It doesn't matter what I do, the hiring agents at places like Costco just aren't going to bother with me. I'm guessing that's because they figure anyone with a resume full of job titles that contain the words "Vice President" and "Director" isn't going to last long doing certain types of work, starvation be damned.

One thing that has changed dramatically in the past 5 years is the number of companies that interview and then never hire anyone. I had one entity that I interviewed with last summer. The woman I interviewed with wanted desperately to hire me to work as her right-hand man. The money was supposedly in the budget. But they didn't hire me or anyone else. This woman called me three weeks ago to tell me that she herself had just been downsized out of the organization, and that she hoped that our paths would cross in the near future. BTW - she wasn't downsized due to budget woes, but because the CEO imagines that he can basically do all of the fund-raising required by himself. Maybe I didn't want to work there anyhow. Further BTW - I got the interview by sending a resume to people I didn't know.

What to do?

[MANative]

34. Your experience is rather unusual, but it's true that the smaller, really specific job boards are...

marginally more successful than the larger ones. The research we've done shows about a 5% differential when it's an exclusive grouping. Out of 23 individual clients that I worked with last year, sixteen of them landed full-time jobs that were appropriate for their experience and previous income level, and fifteen of them did it through networking. The final one used an industry-specific job board.

One of the problems with networking, particularly if it's in a very insulated industry, is that you tend to run into the same people over and over again, all with the same goals. That's why it usually requires a slightly broader strategy of going "out of network" to borrow a phrase from the healthcare world. As I noted in another post, you never know who knows whom, and it could be your neighbor's cousin's pal who can put you in touch with the right lead.

LinkedIn rarely leads to specific gigs. Another research study that I read (no authoring responsibility) just two weeks ago as part of a program I participated in said that private contractors who use it only get about 3% of their business directly as a result. What it's really more useful for is building visibility and reputation as part of your personal marketing strategy. That same study (done by MBO Partners) also noted that 82% of business for that sector was generated by word-of-mouth referrals. I'm not sure they've released it to the public yet, but it should be on their website if they have. That's really consistent with the research we've done on the rates of hiring based on personal or second-degree connections. In fact, it's more extreme in pointing to the networking value.

In more than 30 years in the corporate world, I never got a job through sending a resume. Not once. Every one was either a personal connection or being recruited for my reputation. You're also not wrong that ageism becomes a factor, especially when the hiring authorities are well under forty and often feel threatened by the skill and knowledge of the older, more experienced candidate.

[Ohio Joe]

2. I was out of work for four years...

I just got a decent job a month or so ago... It was a long rough slog. What ended up getting me a job was part luck, I was the right person who was able to say the right things at the right time. I had a number of searches on zip recruiter:

https://www.google.com/#q=ziprecruiter&safe=off

They scan a crapload of online job sites and send you those that fit your searches. It is not ideal but I did get out 100-150 resumes a week. A lot went to recruiters who were looking to expand their databases... But I just took those as someone I could annoy once a week with a phone call letting them know I was still looking.

Interviews were tough, 100-200 applicants is a lot of people to be up against for a single job... The last thing you want is that number to be higher.

Some tips...

Never say the word 'No'... Find another way to say it... 'I've used similar' or 'I'm familiar with that and how it works'.

Be early for the interview.

Never say anything negative about any of your former jobs... Find a positive thing to say about all of them.

Never say anything negative about former bosses.

Have questions for them ready... It is not 'wrong', nor would it be held against you to ask about thing like benefits, pay, contract length (if it's contract) or anything else about the job. Not having questions seems to be a no-no... I'm a bit fuzzy on why but it is.

Do what you can to connect with everyone you talk to on a personal level. At the very least, be sure you are shaking hands, looking them in the eye when speaking to them but it is always better when you can find something in common to also make yourself look like you will fit right in.

Below is a sheet I picked up from one recruiter or another and I found it to work pretty damn well... Check it out, 20 tough questions and how to answer them:

1. Why do you want to work here?

Because you have done your homework on the company, you know exactly why you want to work there.

Just organize your reasons into several short hard-hitting sentences like “You make the best product on

the market today. Your management is farsighted enough to reinvest the company’s profits so that you

will soon be the leader in this category”.

2. Why should I hire you?

The interviewer does not want a lengthy regurgitation of your resume. They do not want a barrage of

facts and figures. They are interested in testing your poise and confidence. So give a short, generalized

summary like “I have the qualifications to do the job that needs to be done and my track record proves it”.

3. What interests you most about this position?

Give a truthful-but-brief answer like “The challenge” or “The future”, “The environment” or “The

competitiveness”. This response will force the interviewer to ask you to explain, giving you yet another

opportunity to demonstrate your profound knowledge of the company.

4. Would you like to have your boss’s job?

By all means, “Yes!”. Ambitious, hungry people are always preferred over those who would settle for a

safe routine. If you sense that this answer may threaten your interviewer’s security, you might want to

add, “when I am judged qualified” or “should an opening develop in several years”.

5. What are your biggest accomplishments?

Keep your answer job related. If you exaggerate contributions to major projects you will be accused of

suffering from “coffee-machine syndrome”, the afflictions of the junior clerk who claimed success for an

Apollo space mission based on his relationships with certain scientists, established at the coffee machine.

You might begin your reply with “Although I feel my biggest achievements are still ahead of me, I am

proud of my involvement with….. I made my contribution as part of that team and learned a lot in the

process. We did it with hard work, concentration and an eye for the bottom line”.

6. What kinds of decisions are most difficult for you?

Be human and admit that not everything comes easily. But be careful about what you do admit. “I find it

difficult to decide which of two good employees must be let go”. Or “ It is difficult for me to tell a client

when he’s running his business badly.”

7. How do you feel about your progress to date?

Never apologize for yourself. “I think I’ve done well, but I need new challenges and opportunities”. This

is a good time to drop hero stories. “No one in my company has advanced as fast as I have. I think you’ll

agree that I’ve accomplished quite a bit in the last five years”.

8. How long will you stay with the company?

A reasonable response would be, “As long as I continue to learn and grow in my field”

9. Have you done the best work you are capable of doing?

This is best answered with some degree of self-effacement. “I would be lying if I told you I was perfect,

but I have always tackled assignments with all my energy and talents”.

10. What would you like to be doing five years from now?

To answer this question, make sure you know exactly what can or cannot be accomplished by the ideal

candidate in your shoes. Too many job-hunters butcher this question because they have not done their

homework and have no idea where their career will lead them. If you see yourself at another company or

in another department of the company you are interviewing with, the tread lightly. You can’t afford to

tell your interviewer that you think you’ll be more successful than they will.

11. What training/qualifications do you have for a job like this?

Deliver a short, fact-filled summary of your two or three most important qualifications. “I have a

background in accounting. I’ve demonstrated proven selling skills. I’m capable of handling several

projects simultaneously”.

12. Why do you want to change jobs?

This is one of the first questions interviewers ask. Be sure you are ready to answer it satisfactorily. If

you are currently in a dead-end position, locked out of advancement opportunities, explain this. The

interviewer will understand. If your job has become routine, and void of learning experiences, say so. If

you feel your present employer is losing ground to competition through no fault of yours, the interviewer

will also accept that. If you say that you hate your boss, you might also end up hating the interviewer. If

you say you are bored, they’ll view as a just another job-hopper. Be careful.

13. What is your energy level like? Describe a typical day.

You must demonstrate good use of your time, that you believe in planning your day beforehand, and that

when it is over, you review your own performance to make sure you are reaching the desired goals. No

one wants a part-time employee, so you should sell your energy level. For example, your answer might

end with: “At the end of the day when I’m ready to go home, I make a rule always to type one more letter

(make on more call, etc.) and clear my desk for the next day”.

14. Why have you changed jobs so frequently?

This question is crucial. In fact, an unsatisfactory answer to this one is among the top reasons why

candidates fail to get the jobs they want. Convince the interviewer that your job-hopping days is over.

If you feel it was a mistake leaving previous jobs so soon, say so, and at the same time remind the

interviewer that your performance was never in question. Honesty is appreciated. If something in your

personal or business life has recently changed and would affect your future stability, come right out with

the facts.

15. What is your greatest strength?

Isolate high points from your background and build in a couple of the key value profiles from different

categories. You will want to demonstrate pride; reliability and the ability to stick with a difficult task

yet change course rapidly when required. You can rearrange the previous answer here. Your answer in

part might be: “I believe in planning and proper management of my time. And yet I can still work under

pressure”.

16. How have you helped sales/profits/cost reductions?

Have your hero stories ready and be willing to prove that you have made significant contributions in one

or more of these basic areas. Keep your explanations short and try to include specific dollar amounts.

17. Why aren’t you earning more at your age?

This is a current favorite, which can frighten the wits out of an unsuspecting candidate. One of the

following responses should cover your situation: “I have been willing to sacrifice short-term earnings in

order to gain valuable experience”, or “I have received (been promised) company stock (or other benefits)

in lieu of a salary increase” or “I was reluctant to gain a reputation as a job-hopper, preferring instead to

build my career on solid, long-term achievement”. These work.

18. How many people have you supervised?

Similar to the “hired/fired” question, the interviewer is trying to determine the depth f your experience.

Do not exaggerate!

19. What are the reasons for your success?

It is best to keep this answer very general, permitting the interviewer to probe more deeply. Offer a short

list of positive character traits that describe YOU> “I like to work hard”. “I get along with all kinds of

people” and I know how to listen>” or “I pay close attention to details, I know how to watch costs and I

can keep difficult customers smiling.”

20. What kind of experience do you have for this job?

Summarize four or five key areas of experience, which you know you can bring to your new job.

Demonstrate how each one will help the interviewer’s company solve their problems. For example, “My

experience in new product introductions will be very helpful to your entire marketing effort”, or “My

industrial design background will strengthen your sales-force capability in dealing with large clients”.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Most of all... Don't give up. Deal with what you need to deal with but be certain to be getting out resumes every day and following up on them. The hardest thing to do is stay positive but it is also one of the most important.

Good luck.

[dickthegrouch]

3. I was actually out of work for 3yrs before taking my last position

Out of the last 12 years I have spent 4 of them unemployed. Major damage to my retirement funds and overall financial health.

I know how hard it is and it scares me.

But people keep telling me to settle for anything that comes along because it's easier when you are already employed. That's unethical to me.

[Lee-Lee]

12. Truth is, employment gaps hurt

This I learned the hard way, with a gap approaching almost 2 years I was getting squat.

An old friend from college who does HR now told me any explanation for a gap other than "not working-looking" is better, because employers see someone with long gaps seeking employment and second guess why they have been unemployed.

He said if you occupy the time with school, even if it is stuff unrelated or even minor things like short classes for stuff like a notary class that looks better, because they see someone trying to improve.

I also mentioned during this period I had slowed my search because my dad required surgery and recovery and I took time to care for him- he said always explain that, once again it looks better.

I actually got my current offer for a new job I just recently started after I had been working at a friends disaster recovery service (cleaning up after floods, fires, etc) with a deal aimed at me learning so I could possibly open my own business, partnering with him, doing the same work. He put me on the books at minimum wage so I could be covered by insurance if I was injured as I learned, made up a job title of "disaster recovery specialist", and I set out to learn. As it turned out the plan of opening my own business in partnership with him didn't wasn't meant to be, but as soon as I added that job to my resume I saw a marked increase in callbacks for interviews.

It could have been that the economic recovery just kicked in then, but I really believe that it was just the change in employers attitudes because I was employed seeking better employment.

I don't see anything unethical with taking a job below what you want while you look.

[magical thyme]

7. Wow! I wish I'd had that info about 30 years ago...

Too bad I'm hoping to be retired in 5 years.

Seriously, this is very generous of you! Fabulous suggestions....

[dickthegrouch]

10. That will be useful for when I get an interview, thank you

I've had exactly two in-person interviews in a year

Another question that has tripped me up in the past was
"Have you ever put someone on a performance improvement plan?"
In going over my answers with a friend later, I was informed that I didn't show enough empathy for the recipient of the performance plan in my answer.

I'm rebooting my search. I haven't given up, yet

[SamKnause]

26. Hi neighbor.

I am not looking for a job Ohio Joe, but that was an excellent post !!!!

[bhikkhu]

5. On the higher end of things I'm not sure how it works

but on the lower end of things, there's plenty of work. I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle, as a mechanic. I've always been able to find work, though through the recession it was fairly low-wage and limited hours. I spent two years getting all my credentials, certifications and training in order and up to date, and this year I applied for and got the best job I've had in many years. Our biggest local dealership has been having a very good year and moving people up, and I applied at a good time, and had the best set of qualifications among the applicants. I also have a good local reputation, and know several people there, including the service manager, which helped.

On the lower end of things, in the few months since I've been there they've hired another dozen or so people in various positions. Most of them in the lube bays and detail departments, and in sales. Not what most people want to do, but they're all decent paying jobs with full benefits.

[Betsy Ross]

8. Perhaps a resume created like this will help your situation.

1. Collect as many want ads as you can find for the many different skills you have. The ads can be from anywhere.
2. Highlight the buzz words in all the ads. "Developed, designed, profit" whatever.
3. Pepper your resume with as many buzzwords as possible.
4. Throw away all those ads.
5. Look for ads in your local. You should hit many buzz word matches.
6. Pepper your cover letter with missing buzz words.

This will work for those looking for a variety of jobs without having to write a separate resume for each type. You will hit buzz words that are searched by automatic or human scan.

[Marrah_G]

17. The job market is filled with crap jobs

and now you see jobs requiring a bachelors degree that pay 10 bucks an hour. The only people doing well are the people who were doing well before the depression.

[uponit7771]

23. Because your marketing? No really, that's usually the beginning and end of it. People want to hire..

...you

[dickthegrouch]

25. Another thing I realize is that

Being gay, my social life and business life are almost entirely separated even though I've always been out at work.

I don't have any list of the people I've managed/supervised (although LinkedIn has helped a bit there) and I my specific job requires me to be very coy about what I tell anyone (I'd make a great threat assessment analyst, Oh wait... ).