Iran billionaire executed over $2.6B fraud

[TexasTowelie]

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iranian state television says a billionaire businessman at the heart of a $2.6 billion state bank scam, the largest fraud case since the country's 1979 Islamic Revolution, has been executed.

The TV report Saturday said authorities put Mahafarid Amir Khosravi, also known as Amir Mansour Aria, to death at Evin prison, just north of the capital, Tehran. The report said the execution came after Iran's Supreme Court upheld his death sentence.

Three others also face death sentences in the case, which involved using forged documents to get credit at one of Iran's top banks to purchase assets including major state-owned companies. The trial raised questions about corruption at senior levels in Iran's tightly controlled economy during the administration of former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

More at http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/article/Report-Iran-billionaire-executed-over-2-6B-fraud-5502157.php .

[johnlucas]

1. We would NEVER see that over here. Nothing even CLOSE!

Iran don't play the RADIO! Damn!

My cynical side says that he pissed off bigger fish & they ate him.
My optimistic side says that Iran doesn't tolerate deceit no matter WHAT financial status you have.
That there's not necessarily a cultural worship of billionaires there like it is here in America.

We don't even ARREST fraudulent rich guys much less imprison them.
Iran EXECUTES theirs.

It says a lot.
John Lucas

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Ya...we should become more like Iran. nt

[johnlucas]

3. Executing rich guys who financially damage a nation? Yeah I'll take that part from Iran

I'll even settle for sending them to prison.

In America the big business class gets golden parachutes & immunity from the consequences of their irresponsibility.
Why would anyone expect them to stop with their corruption?
There's no consequence.

When you play games with the financial infrastructure in Iran, there ARE consequences.
That's one thing we could learn from the Iranians.
We don't even have to go 100%. I'll settle for 50% at this point.
Just DO something. Anything!

John Lucas

[Gravitycollapse]

6. You honestly believe executing financial criminals is even remotely ethical?

[hobbit709]

15. Beats the hell out of giving them government positions.

[oneofthe99]

43. ha ha

good one

[NutmegYankee]

60. +1

[JJChambers]

21. Absolutely , for crimes of this magnitude

We execute murderers who are directly responsible for a single death; why not execute financial criminals who are I directly responsible for thousands of deaths and immense suffering?

[Gravitycollapse]

30. And executing those murderers is also totally unethical and without any deterrent effect at all.

So I'm not sure why you think they're a good example to run on.

[JJChambers]

31. No, capital punishment is very ethical

[Gravitycollapse]

32. Only if your ethics are warped.

[JJChambers]

37. Some people have no redeeming value

And society had no obligation to allow those people to exist. Why should society allow someone who rapes and murders children to exist? What benefit is there?

[Gravitycollapse]

38. I wrote this for people like you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024893231

To say someone is a monster is to release them from the grips of humanity. By doing so, he or she (or really it at that point) is also departed from ethical culpability. In other words, if we push someone into the realm of the monster, we as a society can no longer seek punishment for criminal activity because all of the previous justifications for punishment evaporate. It could be argued that we have no real obligation to treat monsters well. But it cannot be argued that treating them poorly is productive in any meaningful capacity.

To say someone is a human being is not to release them from the grip of humanity. To keep this person within the confines of what it means to be a member of our society is to also keep him or her under the rule of ethics and this means that he or she is ethically responsible for his or her actions. However, and this is the sticky part, by saying someone is a person, by keeping that person away from the realm of the monster, we are also saying that person deserves to be treated in an ethical manner. That person must be allowed to exercise all of the basic human rights from which everyone else benefits.


Either way, with a monster or a human being, cruelty is either unnecessary or reprehensible. It's up to us to decide exactly why we shouldn't be cruel but the end result is the same.

The latter part of this quote is most famous but I think we often overlook the importance of the former claim in Nietzsche's quote:

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

[JJChambers]

40. I didn't call anyone a monster

I asked why society should allow a murdering rapist to continue to exist. I also asked what benefit society gains by allowing that person to exist.

[Gravitycollapse]

41. The benefit, since you didn't read, is that we do not allow ourselves to become like them.

[JJChambers]

44. I reject your assertion

Removing a murdering rapist from society does not turn society into murdering rapists. I would assert the opposite: removing them makes society unequivocally better.

[Gravitycollapse]

45. Yes, state sanctioned murder makes society better. That's a real revelation you've had.

[JJChambers]

46. Murder is unlawful killing. The death penalty, by definition, is lawful killing.

Try again.

Or keep dodging the question.

[Gravitycollapse]

48. Law is merely the systemization of ethics. Murder is a crime because it is unethical.

Thus, the wrongful killing of someone is what makes it illegal, not simply because it is inscribed in law.

The death penalty is a gross violation of ethics. Therefore, its legality is the product of a legal miscalculation and not its justified existence.

If a court finds that, for instance, a rogue neighborhood watchman who gunned down an unarmed black teenager isn't guilty of a crime, does that make him any less of a murderer? Is what he did any less of a murder? No, of course not. Because the law is a reflection of the ethical and not the other way around.

[JJChambers]

49. Still waiting to hear your contribution

What benefit does society gain by allowing a murdering rapist to exist? What redeeming value does that person hold?

[Gravitycollapse]

51. The benefit is that we do not become monsters ourselves. If you don't agree with that, so be it.

But claiming I haven't told you or explained it to you is a lie on your part.

[JJChambers]

52. You're the one throwing around the monster label

Removing murdering rapists from society does not a monster make.

[Gravitycollapse]

53. You can remove them from society without killing them.

But where's the fun in that? Where's the satisfaction of your blood lust? Where's the romance of it all?

[JJChambers]

54. Apparently our definition of removed is different

[Gravitycollapse]

55. No, it's not. You've just overlooked incarceration because you want people dead.

If incarceration is as effective in protecting society from the violent and depraved as killing them, the only reason you could give for killing them is you need to satisfy some sort of ape-like need to snatch the life out of someone.

[JJChambers]

56. A life sentence is more cruel and unusual than a death sentence

[Gravitycollapse]

57. Oh, I'm sorry I must have been mistaken. Are you a permanently incarcerated person?

That explains your massive insight on the subject.

Although it doesn't cover why criminals fight desperately to live right up to the last second the killing drugs are injected into their veins. It doesn't explain why criminals take pleas to avoid capital punishment.

Now all of a sudden your the most compassionate person on Earth. I don't buy it.

[JJChambers]

58. Because they're cowards

[Gravitycollapse]

59. Ah, yes. Wanting to live makes them cowards. I'm not sure what wanting to kill them makes you.

But it must be something worse.

[johnlucas]

47. Locking people in a tiny prison cell is cruel too. So what are you gonna do?

Any punishment is cruel.
Punishment is supposed to be cruel or else no one would dread it.

When the Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, or the BTK guy murders endless people, we should just leave him alone since to quarantine him in that lonely prison cell is cruelty.
Can the cruelty of the prison cell match up to the cruelty of his murders? Probably not.
But it's still cruel to not be able to see the sun & breathe fresh air & to have sexual relations & to have adequate room to stretch out.

It can warp a person's entire personality.
That's why people are trying to take non-violent offenders out of the prison environment to come up with less crueler punishments.
A guy who smokes weed & gets put in jail is hardly the kind of guy who needs to be locked up.
He broke a bullshit law that needs to be overturned & will be put in a place that leans him to becoming the hardened criminal he never was.

But Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, & the BTK guy were brutal murderers. Serial killers killing lots & lots of people.
It's sort of punishment but it's more of a quarantine to keep them from killing anymore people.
Sort of like what your AVG anti-virus does to those sneaky Trojans.

Prison itself is cruel.
All you seem to be arguing is degrees of cruelness.

I hear your Son Goku stance on the matter.
Son Goku spared the monster Vegeta & reformed him (over time anyway).
Before this Son Goku spared Piccolo, reincarnation of the demon king, & Piccolo eventually became the one who looked after Goku's son, Gohan.

However Son Goku ALSO tried to spare Freeza, the evil space emperor, & that came back to bite him in the ass.
Freeza almost killed Goku's friends & family in a revenge attack.
As a child he spared Doctor Gero, the robotics master of the Red Ribbon Army, & later Dr. Gero created a host of killer androids designed to kill Goku & his friends—ultimately resulting in the biological android Cell who nearly destroyed the Earth.

Luckily Vegeta's son Trunks had no qualms over finishing off the threat known as Freeza & he had no reservations of killing Dr. Gero, his androids, or Cell.

Sometimes you just gotta kill the monster.
You might be able to reform him.
But chances are you're better off killing him.
If you become the monster, well make it a monster for good.
That's all Son Goku & his galaxy-powerful friends were anyhow.
Monsters fighting monsters except that the Son Goku monsters were destroying the destroyers—the monsters who caused havoc on the planets.
All of them were immensely powerful beings except that one set chose to use their powers to stop other powers from destroying weaker beings.

My problems with the death penalty comes from killing the WRONG PERSON not killing the evil person.
In financial fraud, you can trace documents to find trails of corruption.
Structured chains of command that you can filter through to find the source of the corruption.
This is not a case where any number of random people could be involved.
Specific entities are the only ones that can be involved in a case like this.
Insiders in the know are the only ones who can be involved in a case like this.
That makes it easier to trackback.

And if the trail leads to this billionaire, so be it.
No immunity for your crimes just because you're wealthy.
Even if you disagree with the severity of the punishment being death by execution, you MUST agree that wealth should not make you immune from punishment.

No Affluenza in Iran obviously.
John Lucas

[spanone]

35. if you like capital punishment. killing is killing.

[johnlucas]

26. If that's what it takes for these types to think twice on their corruption, you damn right

Last edited Sat May 24, 2014, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

When these guys play these reckless games, they are damaging a NATION.
They are damaging a SOCIETY.
That money could be used to help people & build structures that benefit society.
They are hurting MANY people by behaving like this.

Those in that kind of position MUST be responsible for their actions because their actions send shockwaves throughout the populace.
It's like a dry desert town & some dumb fools wasting water from the water tower.
They're taking the water out of the tank to have a water balloon fight.
Meanwhile villagers are dying of thirst & every drop of water counts.
A silly game of water balloons is harmless by itself.
In context of a water tower in a dry desert town, it's genocide.

Cheating at a personal game of crazy eights is harmless & would play for laughs among your friends.
Cheating at the game of fiscal straits wrecks a nation's infrastructure & nobody laughs about that.
The stock market is casino on a grand scale.
You cheat the casinos in Las Vegas it's a big deal.
When you cheat on Wall Street it's the BIGGEST deal.
Yet here nothing happens to the cheaters & they even get REWARDED for their cheating.

It's serious.
Iran has problems. Big ones.
But they got this one right.
You don't fill up balloons with water from the water tower in a dry desert town.
You're hurting people playing a silly game like that & it's beyond ethical to punish you for your recklessness.
John Lucas

[Gravitycollapse]

28. I have to be honest when I say that is one of the dumbest arguments for death I've ever seen.

Capital punishment has no crime deterrent effect. That has ben demonstrated over and over again. So the only argument you could be making for it for financial crime is that the criminals deserve it. And that is equally absurd because they don't.

[johnlucas]

39. I'm more about the punishment than the deterrance

You play games with the financial infrastructure of a nation which is directly tied to the well-being of the citizens, you need to be dealt with.
Hey let the fradulent fools keep playing with fire after one fraud-monster gets executed.
We'll just have more folks to execute.

If you can't be a good role model at least be a good example.

America is VERY soft on their financial & political criminals.
Yet we whine when they do crime.
Why in the hell WOULD they care what they do as long as the American public is so whipped & weak?
In their minds they think "They're not gonna do anything. Ha! What are they gonna do about it? Screw 'em!"

You get more punishment stealing a $10 bottle of malt liquor from a liquor store than you get damaging the financial health of an entire nation.
I'm more in favor of being more lenient on the liquor thief than I am on the Wall Street thief.
The balance is WAY off in my opinion.

Put these suckers to sleep BECAUSE what they did is the equivalent of poisoning the rivers.
If it deters, cool. If it doesn't, that one sucker won't poison no more rivers, betcha that.
These kinds of crimes are MUCH easier to track down.
Paper trails & documents are hard evidence.

I made the point to you about the water balloons & the desert town water tower.
When these guys play these games they're playing with people's lives.
Old folks, children, men & women. Everybody.
You don't take that lightly.

With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility. ~ Uncle Ben

Peter Parker's uncle told the truth.
And when you abuse that great power the responsibility for that abuse will be great as well.
It might just come to the cost of your life.
John Lucas

[Gravitycollapse]

42. So you just enjoy the idea of having people killed. There's nothing noble about that.

In fact, it's pretty ignoble. Kind of disgusting, really.

[jberryhill]

10. Look, we can all appreciate passionate rhetoric

But it is one thing to say "hang the bastards" and quite another thing to actually hang anyone.

A guillotine doesn't run on justice. All it needs is gravity.

[johnlucas]

23. Ain't no such thing as justice. The system is about punishment & revenge

Talk is cheap.
That's the problem with Americans.
Talk a big game, don't do a damn thing.

If you don't mean "hang the bastards" then don't say "hang the bastards".
All that American euphemism crap. It's tiresome.
We don't call things what they are & that's how so many of us get brainwashed.

George Carlin had a bit about this.

We now call it the Department of Defense. It used to be called the Department of War.
The name was self-explanatory. The War Department is in the business of fighting wars.
But when you call it the Department of Defense it puts this bullshit heroic slant to it.
The Defense Department only wants to defend us, that's all. They're here to protect us, isn't that right?
The hell they are. They're in the business of fighting wars & those wars ain't protecting us worth a damn.
Those wars are only creating new enemies.

Other bullshit euphemisms like Collateral Damage.
No jackass, you just KILLED innocent people.
Friendly Fire. Ha! If my friend fires on me, he ain't my friend no more.
Ain't nothing friendly about that fire! Hahahaha!

The Inner City. That's the Ghetto. That's the Bottoms. That's the Slums.
Urban. Heh. Just say Black & get it over with. I know you REALLY wanna use that word that rhymes with 'trigger'.
Employee. I guess it's better than saying Labor Ho or Servant or Slave.
It's gotten so bad that you gotta say Associate in some places.
I'm not an equal partner in this firm so why are you calling me an associate?
You sure ain't giving me equal money!

When you employ something you USE it. So I guess Usee & User would be a proper substitute for Employee & Employer.
No change in the relationship there.

No. There ain't no such thing as the Justice System.
It's the Penal System. It's the Payback System.
That's why they have sentences they hand out to imprison you.

Ideally the Penalties & Paybacks would be equally distributed amongst every member of society.
But we know that's nowhere near the case.
And the more powerful you are in society, the less likely you will see ANY penalty or payback.
That is unless you piss off someone even more powerful.

So I find this refreshing even coming from Iran of all places.
I don't think for a second that they will apply this standard to the political rulers themselves.
But at the very least they applied penalty & payback to someone high up on the food chain.

Penalty & Payback. Punishment & Revenge.
The word JUST means FAIR & if there was truly Justice & Fairness in this world, the punishments & vengeances would be doled out equally regardless of status.
They always tell you life ain't fair though.
But it's our job to fair it up & one way to do this is to start applying the lumps to those who ascend beyond the mountaintops.
If we do enough of this, maybe one day there WILL be a such thing as Justice.

John Lucas

[jberryhill]

25. Okay, you just want to kill people. Got it.

[johnlucas]

27. Just corrupt people in high places who damage society, that's all.

No sympathy for folks that play games like this.
But like I said I'm reasonable.
I'll settle for life imprisonment if that's all they're offering.

John Lucas

[Ed Suspicious]

34. Great post. "A guillotine doesn't run on justice. All it needs is gravity." is that you or is it

borrowed? I ask because I love it.

[jberryhill]

63. I made it up, feel free to use it

[mountain grammy]

64. I'm against the death penalty, but would also settle for sending them to prison..

Maximum security.

[Blue_Tires]

11. China does this as well

(and no I don't want to be more like China)

[struggle4progress]

5. What do you actually know about the case, other than hearing the guy was a banker?

[johnlucas]

19. I know no more than what the article tells me. But this excerpt says it all

The trials raised questions about corruption at senior levels in Iran's tightly controlled economy during the administration of former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Mahmoud Reza Khavari, a former head of Bank Melli, another major Iranian bank, escaped to Canada in 2011 after he resigned over the case. He faces charges over the case in Iran and remains on the Islamic Republic's wanted list. Khavari previously admitted that his bank partially was involved in the fraud, but has maintained his innocence.

Why is this guy running?
Why did he say his bank was partially involved in the fraud?
He's the head of a major Iranian bank. Why is he in Canada?

Why?
Because Iran don't play that shit, that's why.

If his underlings were responsible for the fraud & he wasn't, he should out those underlings to save the reputation of his bank.
He shouldn't run to another country after saying his bank was partially responsible for the fraud.
His statement of innocence doesn't hold up under these circumstances.

He was one of many involved in this fraud.
The forged documents are very telling.
That's a paper trail not a flimsy eyewitness account.
Much more solid to build a case on.
He ran because he didn't wanna end up like that billionaire.

Iran does a lot of things wrong & has a lot of regressive policies.
But THIS ONE THING is something that all countries should emulate.
We should not tolerate corruption at the highest levels of society.
And the punishments SHOULD be severe.
If the big man can get away with murder, what incentive does the little man have to walk the straight line?
John Lucas

[jberryhill]

7. Do you think he was guilty?

Or does the manner in which his conviction was obtained not a matter of interest to you, in the midst of your apparent glee over the killing of a human being by his own government?

[johnlucas]

17. Do you think he was innocent?

Matters like these are ran by people in the know.
This isn't a case of he-said, she-said that could be debated.
Forged documents leave a paper trail.
Only certain entities would have access to these kinds of documents.
Powerful people in high-up places.

It ain't some random Joe Blow who could pull off a fraud like this.
The only other entity you could blame would be the political rulers themselves.
The only argument would be that they set this billionaire up for the fall for their own misdeeds.
That's the only scenario that makes sense.

Documents bypass all of the hearsay.
Dates, times, & places are concrete.
The only way you could dispute this is to say the documents were tampered with by someone else.

Yeah I think he's guilty & I'm pleasantly surprised to see Iran handle financial infrastructure corruption the way they did.
They don't care HOW big a player you are & how many businesses & companies you own.
You start playing around with the financial health of a nation? You got to go.

Hey, I'm reasonable.
It ain't gotta be the death penalty.
I'll settle for life imprisonment in a maximum security prison.
But you better do SOMETHING.

Actions are supposed to have consequences.
John Lucas

[jberryhill]

24. I doubt an Iranian court verdict is a good indicator

[johnlucas]

33. Well, I'll make you a deal. Let's study this case right here on the forum

Lay out all the concrete facts.
Show all the evidence.
And try it OURSELVES right here on this forum.

A head of a major Iranian bank fled to Canada after admitting his bank was partially involved in the fraud.

That's the first piece I offer.
Bring what you know & let's break the case down for ourselves.

I understand you not trusting Iran's verdict. That's cool.
So let's give a verdict of our own.
John Lucas

[struggle4progress]

36. +

[Starry Messenger]

13. They also jail trade unionists.

Don't get too excited.

[johnlucas]

16. I don't want ALL of what Iran does. Just THAT part.

Just because you're at the top of the food chain doesn't mean you can do whatever you want without impunity.
THAT'S what I'm glad to see in this story.
And THAT PARTICULAR ASPECT is what I want this country to follow.

Iran has a LOT of a regressive policies but this particular aspect I admire.
Now if they would also apply this maxim to the political rulers, then I would REALLY be impressed.
John Lucas

[McCamy Taylor]

4. No wonder they were part of the Bush axis of evil. The execute their Banksters.

We give ours bailouts.

[jberryhill]

8. They execute a lot of other people too

They arrested six people for being happy!

No shit. Google: Iran happy arrested

[jmowreader]

12. I'm pretty sure...

the lack of burkas and use of makeup by the women in the video pissed the Basiji off more than anyone actually being happy.

[MrScorpio]

9. Tough crowd nt

[malaise]

14. The only part of Sharia law that I support

is the part that deals with money -usury, etc. That said I don't support the death penalty anywhere.
Just throw away the keys. The robber-barons in the West would have to think again if they understood that consequences follow their insatiable greed.

[johnlucas]

29. Glad you see what I see malaise

Others on here are aghast that I'm unsympathetic against corrupt MFers like this.
Actions have consequences.
If they don't, then those actions will continue unchecked.
If we're not willing to put the hammer down on suckers creating mass corruption like this, then quit all your protesting about corruption.

I'll take it either way, malaise.
Life imprisonment or death.
But the punishment needs to be severe to show that this behavior is nowhere near tolerated.

Iran's hardline stance on things rubs me the wrong way many times.
But I LOVE this particular hardline.
They take this kind of behavior VERY seriously & that is refreshing.

Left unchecked this corrupt behavior at high levels ruins societies.
The punishments NEED to be severe because of the fallout.
John Lucas

[malaise]

62. Nothing will make me support the death penalty

Not in my name...not even for that war criminal of a dick Cheney - but I understand the need for severe punishment.

[n2doc]

50. Yep. Life in Prison.

Let them sit and think about all the toys they have lost, all those cars, art, Mansions….

I suspect that would be a bigger deterrent than anything else. That and wholesale confiscation of their assets.

[TexasTowelie]

20. Thanks for weighing in on the thread.

Welcome to DU!

[951-Riverside]

22. If only the massive Oil Spill and Radiation Leak happened in Iran or China...