Virginia county board says no followers of ‘pre-Christian deities’ allowed to deliver prayers

[MohRokTah]

Yeah, Town of Greece v. Galloway opened up a can of worms...

Virginia county board says no followers of ‘pre-Christian deities’ allowed to deliver prayers

County officials in Virginia have apparently violated the constitution by designating which religious leaders can deliver prayers before public meetings, according to the state’s American Civil Liberties Union.

The ACLU sent a letter Thursday to the Chesterfield County Board of Supervisors, which had limited opening prayers to ordained leaders of monotheistic religions.

“The First Amendment requires governing bodies to allow everyone the chance to deliver prayers before official meetings,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. “If they don’t, then what they’re doing is unconstitutional.”

...

Officials defended that decision, saying the “neo-pagan” faith does not fall within the Judeo-Christian tradition and “invokes polytheistic, pre-Christian deities.”

...

Raw Story link

Fucking morons have established Christianity as the official religion of Chesterfield County, and I bet the Roberts court let's them get away with it.

[eShirl]

1. So, post-Christian deities are ok? (FSM) Isn't Jehova a pre-Christian deity?

[Drale]

12. Techiquely God and Jesus are pre-Christian deities

since Christianity did not appear to well after Jesus's supposed execution.

[BrotherIvan]

31. FFS they don't even know this?

Their God is the god of the Hebrews. Are they really that fucking stupid?

[TNNurse]

35. In answer to both your questions....

Yes.

[BrotherIvan]

39. ...

[sulphurdunn]

45. Yes

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

78. and another YES

[tblue37]

16. As is the Flying Spaghetti Monster! nt

[gwheezie]

2. I live in Virginia

Even though the state is turning purple, we still have loons out here in the woods that just won't stfu and mind their own business, they're part of the smaller government crowd that supports shredding the constitution. They've somehow conflated the bible, constitution and atlas shrugged into their founding document "the biblitution shrugged" in which Jesus Galt said at the sermon on the mount of money "you're on your own"

[MohRokTah]

6. Chesterfield County is right outside Richmond, hardly an area in the woods. eom

[gwheezie]

21. I was talking in general

I don't live in Cfield cty, I live out in where the hell am i, virginia but within 40 miles of Richmond.

[deafskeptic]

8. Chesterfield County isn't out in the woods. It's a suburb of Richmond, Va.

I should know. I grew up in Richmond VA.
However, I agree with what you've said though. Christians - especially the fringe types - should mind their own business.

[no_hypocrisy]

80. Cantor's district, right?

Isn't he "pre-Christian"?

[deafskeptic]

87. Dunno if Chesterfield County is part of his district. Henrico County Is a part of it. n/t

[underpants]

25. Ha! Spot on. You know this basically means that the guy who always said the prayer

Will continue to say the prayer.

Hell, they might "spice it up" a bit and let a Methodist have a turn.

[pangaia]

60. Spice.. from a Methodist?

[underpants]

75. In white Southern Baptist world yes

They tend to get to the buffet first too. I am told

[pangaia]

83. ">)))))

[Brigid]

86. Well, John Wesley, founder of Methodism famously said:

"Dost thou love and serve God? It is enough! I give thee the right hand of fellowship." I think most Southern Baptists would be a little more particular than that.

[img][/img]

[Enthusiast]

46. You forgot the Left Behind series. It's a biblical supplement don't ya know?

Jebus be on the way any time now. Gonna strike down some lazy, poor moochers!

[grasswire]

53. what county is Cuckoo Virginia in?

I recall driving through there years ago.

[gwheezie]

63. Cuckoo is in Louisa cty

Bumpass is in Loiusa also

[grasswire]

70. and where is Walton's Mountain?

[jmowreader]

76. Either Nelson County or Jefferson County

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waltons

[shenmue]

3. So there's an official state religion now?

Didn't we get rid of all that bullshit in 1776?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Clarence Thomas (*Yuk! Ptooey!*) suggested in his concurring opinion

in Town of Greece v. Galloway that the First Amendment's Establishment Clause applies only to Congress and that there was no clear intent to apply it to states. In other words, he thinks that although the federal government can't establish a national religion, it is theoretically constitutional for states or municipalities to choose a "local" religion. Fortunately, that's not the holding of Galloway, although the idjits referenced in the OP seem to think so.

[shenmue]

20. Oy oy oy

Eeeeew.

[Xyzse]

4. Hail Our Patron Saint Yoda

And all the stuff in the Force that Lucas tells us.
Praise to the Pontiff Skywalker, and the new Jedis coming out of the order.

I am going to have to make some prayers up, and come up with new gods.
I live close enough to VA, that I could probably make a nuisance of myself.

[rhett o rick]

5. This might liven up board meetings. nm

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Isn't the God of Christianity a pre-Christian deity?

At one time "God," then known as Yahweh (YWHW), was merely the particular god of the Israelites, not the only god anywhere. The Commandment that says "Thou shalt have no other god before me" simply means that you shouldn't be worshiping, say, Baal or Ahura-Mazda instead of Me, Yahweh. It didn't mean they didn't exist at all.

And what about post-Christian ones like Allah, who didn't turn up until centuries A.D. (although Allah is technically the same as the Judeao-Christian God)? And does this mean we can offer prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, since the FSM is a very new deity?

[sakabatou]

11. Yup

God was believed in long before Jesus.

[yellowcanine]

17. Exactly, Yahweh is no good but Allah passes muster. Good point about FSM, Bless His Holy Tentacles.

This should be clear to everyone involved.

[arcane1]

58. You put more thought into this post than all the people in the OP combined.

[Hippo_Tron]

71. Shhh, don't give it away...

[gwheezie]

9. I have to come back to this

how stupid and clueless the right it, a majority of mid east and far east virginians who are hindu or muslim voted for McAullife in the last election. Didn't they learn a thing from the Allen campaign?

[sakabatou]

10. And that breaks the 1st Amendment doesn't it?

[MohRokTah]

13. The establishment clause of the first amendment is on shaky grounds since Town of Greece v. Galloway

Thank John Roberts.

[yellowcanine]

14. So no Jewish Rabbis then? Or is that the same deity? This is so confusing.

[MohRokTah]

15. I wish I lived there. I'd request to be put on their list then sue this shit out of them.

Take it to the SCOTUS and make Roberts face the monster he created.

[sakabatou]

49. Same deity

Though Jesus is only part of Christianity and Islam.

[yellowcanine]

19. The Flying Sphaghetti Monster is post Christian monotheistic, bless his holy tentacles!

Unless Linguini and Raveoli are considered Gods but that is just the heretical version of FSM (BHHT), so I think we are good. Anyway, it is no more polytheistic than the Catholics with Father, Son and Holy Ghosticus.

[Xyzse]

22. Agreed. I am thinking of more prayers and more gods.

I think I will have to make one called Mojo, patron saint of getting it on.

[underpants]

24. Can you get ordained ?

????

[yellowcanine]

28. Yes, only ordained individuals are permitted to wear the Spaghetti Strainer Headpiece.

[SheilaT]

51. Plus, of course the Catholics

have a wonderful array of Saints. Someone needs to get up and pray to St. Anthony (patron of lost things although I swear I was raised being told he was the patron of lost causes) or St. Barbara (patron saint of artillery and mining). I wonder who the patron saint of stupid people would be.

[underpants]

23. Straight Outta Chester!!

Chester is in Chesterfield. That used to be an inside joke whenever we saw a hayseed in the city of Richmond.

Not surprising for Chesterfield - or any county around Richmond - it us a Repub bastion and farmland turned into the white flight homeland of 50+ years ago. Try as they might they can't get around still being seen as the dirt-kickin' scabby kneed redheaded stepchildren named "Rusty" of the area. This sort of thing doesn't help.

[justiceischeap]

26. And some of you wonder why some of us are anti-Christianity

it incites stupidity to abound.

I wish the right would make up their minds... either the Constitution is the end all be all or the Bible is... it shouldn't be both.

[alphafemale]

27. Actually, this is a good thing.

That one will LOSE big time in the Supreme court.

[MohRokTah]

30. I wouldn't bet on it.

If the SCOTUS throws out Hobby Lobby v. Sebilius, then maybe. IF that case goes the way I suspect it will, then I wouldn't even consider betting on the SCOTUS ruling against Chesterfield County.

[alphafemale]

41. It's the same as once the first state recognized a "gay marriage"

Constitutionally it was over.

The same exact argument as in Loving vs Virginia stands.

A prayer before a government meeting being Christian, even if it is almost always Christian does not exclude others. Excluding other religions clearly does.

I see the justices 7-2 against something like this. Because they interrupt the Constitution at whim. It think Scalia is on record of loathing the Bill of Rights. The other nut job against would be Thomas because he votes the way Scalia tells him too.

[NutmegYankee]

29. That's good news for Muslims.

Now watch the county officials heads explode.

[KamaAina]

43. And Pastafarians.

RAMEN!

[mindwalker_i]

32. Flying Spaghetti Monster!

He's definitely not pre-christian. In fact, I'm not even sure whether pasta is pre-christian, though I think it is.

[Maedhros]

38. FSM is definitely OK.

From the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta

Pasta is a staple food[1] of traditional Italian cuisine, with the first reference dating to 1154 in Sicily

[mindwalker_i]

69. Cool, so pasta is post-Christianity

and the FSM is definitely post-Christianity.

I don't see no problem.

[Marrah_G]

33. This is why I shake my head any time a Christian talks about being oppressed in America.

[EEO]

34. Zeus will not stand for this.

[freedom fighter jh]

36. The Jewish faith falls within the Judeo-Christian tradition

but it's "pre-Christian." What are they gonna do?

[MohRokTah]

37. Heads will explode the first time a Rabbi asks to be added to the list?

[Maedhros]

40. You know, that would be an intriguing concept.

Consider what Christianity could be without all that Old Testament baggage? No Leviticus, for example.

[Sognefjord]

42. Those guys for sure aren't Going to Valhalla!!

Thor and his hammer await them!

[Enthusiast]

44. This is a direct violation of the US Constitution.

WTF?

I imagine this particular Fascist US Supreme Court would allow it.

[Throd]

47. This is where I dust off my atheist hat to go tell the County Board that their policy sucks.

The whole idea of a prayer is silly enough, but when they act as the gatekeepers of which religions are acceptable or not, they have breached the line of separation between church and state.

BTW...you should see my atheist hat. It is quite the dandy affair.

[Scootaloo]

62. Is it anything like mine?

[MisterP]

48. pre-eternity?

[Swede Atlanta]

50. This will ultimately be deemed unconstitutional.....

The Supreme Court just held that government meetings can be started with a prayer. All they said was this is in keeping with our traditions. While I vehemently disagree with this and think they got this dead wrong, ok...... But I knew that what Alito, Scalia, Thomas and the rest of the majority really meant by that was Christian prayer.

But this will never stand. The 1st Amendment prohibits the government from the establishment of religion. The only way the recent court decision can be reconciled with the 1st Amendment is if this means citizens of any "religion" (keep in mind our jurisprudence is very liberal in defining what a religion is) may open the meeting with their prayer. Government cannot define "which religions" because that would be endorsing or establishing a religion.

I think the ACLU will quickly get this quashed. I knew that all the religio-nuts applauded the recent court ruling but in their minds that meant they would be invoking Jesus at every meeting. What they didn't understand was no this means that Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Taoists, Satanists, etc. all can come with their prayers.

It was the same in LA where they passed a school voucher program. When some parents wanted to use their vouchers for a Muslim school the representative that sponsored the bill said no the intention was this was only for Christian schools.

I will laugh when this county board are slapped down.

[PumpkinAle]

52. Which day are they going to pencil in the local Iman because

Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity.

These people are so ignorant of world history and culture and are just a freaking embarrassment to America.

And I just don't understand how these people have managed to get a toe hold in politics and are trying to turn the country - faux-Christian (real Christianity is nothing like what they have made it to be.)

[PumpkinAle]

55. When Jesus FacePalms

borrowed from and with thanks to http://www.fark.com/comments/8272189

[SheilaT]

54. The essential problem here is that

people like this honestly have no idea that their own particular religion is actually quite narrow. "Non-denominational" prayer is invariably a Protestant prayer, and as someone who was raised Catholic it makes me crazy that even very nice and totally non-bigoted Protestants just don't get it. I want to pull out a rosary and start reciting Hail Marys until they get it that NO prayer is non-denominational.

These days, while I have my own peculiar spiritual beliefs, I generally refer to myself as a non believer. I feel absolutely no compulsion to explain to anyone what I believe or why, nor do I think there is anything wrong with someone who believes differently. So long as they really, really get it that they do NOT have a monopoly on Truth. All they have is a grasp on one way of thinking about such things, and absolutely no way of knowing if what they believe is valid or true.

[ladjf]

56. He probably wasn't aware that Islam is a more recent Religion than Christianity. nt

[arcane1]

57. Making me glad I left Chesterfield, but sad for those I left behind.

One day I hope we can all Have Nice Things.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. “invokes polytheistic, pre-Christian deities.”

LOL!!!

These IDIOTS actually BELIEVE a prayer is an invocation spell!!!


Like THIS is going to happen!

[niyad]

65. awww, you found a picture of one of my cousins--thank you.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. He must work out.

[niyad]

67. well, depends on what you call working out. . .

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. Heavy smoker?

[niyad]

73. he does tend to go a bit overboard on the charcoal for the barbie, and on the incense.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. Ah! A gas giant.

[Iggo]

61. Deeply held beliefs.

I disrespect them.

[blkmusclmachine]

64. Gee, who could have seen this one coming down the tracks???

[wickerwoman]

72. Good news for Muslims, Mormons and Scientologists at any rate.

[jmowreader]

77. Hmm...does this mean we can pray...

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

[blm]

79. Zeus just may have something to say about that.

; )

[sofa king]

81. Yes! Flying Spaghetti Monster Makes the Cut!

[freshwest]

82. Sooo... JC's daddy who is supposed to have been around long before Christianity (2K+ years) and

that same God who is in the Jewish books, for over 4K years before Christ, isn't allowed to be spoken of?

Will the word 'God' as in GodTheFather© no longer be welcome?

And the Holy Spirit, said to have worked as part of the Trinity to create the world long before Jesus' birth, is going to be persona non grata?

And since Jesus is the Son of that God, he was before the gospels were writ and Christianity, etc., where does that leave the religion claiming to follow the Son of God, Jesus?

I think they have destroyed their religion and shot Jesus in the foot or something.

Just sayin'

[MineralMan]

84. Dudes: The Christian Deity Is Also a Pre-Christian Deity.

Thinking is good. Being non-thinking dumbasses is not good. Being knee-jerk morons is also not good.

[MohRokTah]

85. It seems to me that the Christianists did a stealth takeover of this county board.

They will now proceed to waste the county's money over this in courts.