General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan we all stop jumping right to the level of demanding resignations left and right
every single time there is a "scandal" and/or error in government? We saw it with Sebelius and the ACA rollout and we're apparently seeing it again here with Shinseki and the VA. I'm personally all for accountability when an agency drops the ball and screws up and if it appears that somebody clearly did something wrong, there really is no option but to rid ourselves of them. However, IMHO the first and most proper response to a problem shouldn't always be to immediately start demanding scalps, especially when dealing with a Senate as obstructionist as the one we've had since PBO took office.
At a time when things need to be looked into and fixed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to immediately sack the head of a major agency unless, as previously mentioned, they were clearly involved in the mess (in which case, one would hope that they would do the honorable thing and just go ahead and resign already). When you sack a cabinet head and/or force them to resign immediately, you throw the entire agency into chaos, you lose somebody who has critical experience and knowledge at a critical time, an interim director has to be appointed and brought up to speed on things, and then valuable time has to be spent trying to get a replacement confirmed while Republicans launch hearing after hearing into how they might be able to pin the blame on President Obama for the problem (already starting as we speak in regards to the VA) and then jack around with whoever he nominates.
At the end of the day, the goal in a situation like this IMHO should be to find out what went wrong, figure out how to fix it, start fixing it, and THEN figure out if anybody actually needs to fired, replaced, etc. It is a MUCH better (and smarter) use of time and resources than getting upset (which is totally appropriate) and immediately start demanding that heads roll. Thankfully, I think that Barack Obama understands this and I appreciate it. The Washington mentality, however, still demands the drama of firings and resignations over clear-eyed problem-solving. Let's not join the chorus in demanding that Shinseki just up and leave (or be fired) until or unless it becomes clear that he needs to be.
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)Cha
(297,774 posts)rpannier
(24,341 posts)Once you're gone I'll start a campaign to get me ousted
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)Leme
(1,092 posts)if those hidden appointments are true, and he fixes it, he did his job .
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if there are lots of problems that he know about, and he does not try to fix them, that would be different.
moondust
(20,014 posts)CBHagman
(16,989 posts)...but attention spans are short, power is everything (and with that goes posturing).
Thanks so much for posting today's desperately needed dose of sanity!
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)...or making a decision where he knowingly was cutting people off from untimely care OR if he knew others were doing those things and did nothing about it, then someone might have an argument. But from everything I've seen, Shinseki is a pretty brilliant, honest and good man who was not in a position to be made immediately aware of the problems at some of these VA hospitals. If its not communicated to you, then you don't know about it. Its pretty simple shit. And we are talking about big bureaucracies here, while although necessary, can sometimes lead to people at the top being "the last to know". That probably suggests we should structure the whole thing differently, but it in no way suggests that Shinseki is the enemy here.
Hekate
(90,848 posts)...administration. We know they're not sincere -- in fact, we know the Congressional GOP is by and large full of shit. Why on Earth does anyone at DU ever fall for this maneuver?
Thanks, Proud Lib.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Reps constant cry for firings, yet hold onto their cronies and protecting them for all its worth.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I'm not jumping on the bandwagon yet. Clearly this has been a problem for a long time. I used to work at a VA hospital, it was horrible, this was back during the vietnam era. There was so much that was not reported outside the property lines of the facility where I worked. I don't know what's going on over there now however, my non profit, non military hospital is less than 5 miles from the local va hospital and we routinely take vets because they have no beds at the va. I would say that has something to do with any back-ups. I think the glaring problem is Rummy famously saying iraq would last 6 days, 6 weeks, certainly not 6 month and no one planned for 13 years of war and the consequences.
Hekate
(90,848 posts)I was pretty amazed.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)I'd like to think we could. However, you're asking for reason and rationality to prevail. In other words, ''facts.'' Facts all come with two sides -- sometimes with sharp edges. They both cut in either direction which means you should get to know your facts well before displaying them. Otherwise, it can be dangerous when you let the facts flow freely because there's no telling where they'll end up. You could really shoot yourself in the foot.
- But I'm willing to give it a go. It's the kids you have to worry about:
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K&R
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)I'm tired of the excuses and Wagon circling for those at the highest level and harsh accountability for us "small people".
Hell, even on our side you can tell who is on the side of the people, they are who gets hung out to dry, the turds get circling wagons.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,445 posts)I just believe that we need to be smarter about it than getting on the TV and putting on a big show about heads rolling rather than taking the time and energy to correctly identify and fix the problem(s)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)In the 1990s, the VA made Medicare and private healthcare look terrible. So the Republicans decided they'd better destroy the VA before people realize single-payer works.
Can't just vote it out of existence - would upset too many people. So they started under-funding it. And continued to under-fund it for the intervening decades.
Firing Shinseki means punishing him for what Republicans in Congress have been doing for decades. And letting those Republicans off the hook - after all, it must be Shinseki's fault if he got fired. And that's why Republicans are demanding his scalp immediately. The media would move on and their under-funding gets swept under the rug.
ConnorMarc
(653 posts)You didn't hear O'Reilly wailing about firing people and incompetence during the Bush years.
And that Regime was RIDDLED w/incompetence and scandals.
Excellent thread OP!
*thumbs up*
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)Here, I'd like see blame put where it belongs, unabashedly rather than mealy mouthed and half hearted semi pushback. If it is the TeaPubliKlans are culpable then shove it their mugs. If he can't do that then he deserves to get rolled.
It is war so it is time to act like it.
Baitball Blogger
(46,763 posts)When a Republican screws up, conservatives insist he's management material.
randome
(34,845 posts)Because of politics. It's a knee-jerk response, as you point out. Evidence of malfeasance is different, of course.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]
moondust
(20,014 posts)I therefore "suspect" that he has not tried to micromanage the VA health care system. It might be different if he were running something more closely related to his chosen career, like the Pentagon.
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)an organization with a few hundred thousand. But some people dont seem to care about whether or not he was making things better or worse, or if instability caused by firing leaders who are trying to fix a problem does anything to solve the problem.