What I'd like to do to improve the food stamp program

[cali]

Last edited Sun May 18, 2014, 04:59 AM - Edit history (1)

I wish there was some non-coercive, non-condescending way to help people on food stamps make better, more delicious, healthier food- and that means starting with what you purchase. My idea is that it would work something like this, only healthier and it would be free to food stamp recipients- and include a shopping list and cooking instruction and help- and yes I know that quite a few people who are poor don't have the freezer capacity.

http://dreamdinners.com/main.php?static=online_experience

So a group would get together (once a week instead of once a month) and the participants would get help customizing a menu for their families and cooking it, and their would be information about nutrition. It would/could also be a social thing, like a quilting bee.

I'm pretty sure it would work in my town which is home to this very cool place, and the people that run it or pretty fantastic. It's part of The Center for an Agricultural Economy which is a non-profit and they already do a lot for the local food pantry.

http://www.hardwickagriculture.org/vermont-food-venture-center

What do you think?

Edited to add for those who are saying they want to hear from folks in the SNAP Program:

I am on foodstamps. Here's my thread about my experience with the program:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024965981

[dsc]

1. I would have to think that time is a big issue for many food stamp recipients

I do like cooking, am a fairly decent cook, but rarely cook during the school year on weeknights entirely due to not having the time to do so. Unlike many single parents who work I don't have kids.

[cali]

3. it is for many, but not for all, and you could hold these things at times that fit for people

you couldn't have more than 12 people at a time doing it. And many food stamp recipients like other Americans, don't know much about cooking or shopping or nutrition.

[yeoman6987]

2. I think they should raise the Food Stamp allowance

and only allow for fruits and vegetables, decent meats, and healthy dry goods. Nothing sweet, fried, or full of preservatives. Of course the food stamp allowance would have to be doubled but I am ok with that.

[cali]

4. I don't think I agree. First of all, most Americans and that includes food stamp recipients

don't know much about nutrition or cooking. Americans buy a lot of stuff like Hamburger Helper and prepared processed food of all kinds. It's generous of you to that you're ok with raising the food stamp allowance, and I support that too, but people need to know what to do with the healthy ingredients they purchase.

[yeoman6987]

6. I know what you are saying

And I don't disagree, but maybe adding nutrition courses for folks on Food Stamps might be helpful. Of course every idea will not be 100 percent for each person. So maybe having some exceptions would be helpful.

[etherealtruth]

8. Many poor folk live in inner cities and rural areas ....

... both allow very limited access to these foods. Additionally, groceries in these areas tend to be much more expensive. I can see "set asides" kinda like (my understanding of the ) WIC program, with a certain percentage of "free choices" ... I don't want to see a kid doing without a birthday cake .... or an occasional snack.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

11. I think you might be on to a good idea.

There is some controversy as to how food stamps can be spent. Some say let them spend it on whatever they want and some say only healthy items like fresh fruits, vegetables, and meats.

If there was some discount for healthier items, that could make a difference. For example, if they want a bag of chips, the full price is taken from their card. If they want a bag of apples, they are given a 25% discount from the retail price on their card. This will encourage healthier eating while not forcing people to shop a certain way. A percentage discount on healthy foods could help, but there are too many problems with simply raising the allowance and saying you can only buy healthy foods.

[gollygee]

25. Many people on food stamps

are working part time at a couple of jobs and have long commutes, so they end up eating foods they can just heat up. It isn't as nutritious as other things, but if they are single parents working a couple of part-time minimum wage jobs and trying to help their kids with homework as well, then they might have to do what they have to do to stay sane.

[FrodosPet]

70. "Don't tell ME what to do! I'll eat what I want to eat."

To some people, even offering suggestions in the mildest manner possible is still like making a command. People, particularly people of lesser education and intelligence, get offended when they feel like someone is calling them stupid and telling them what to do.

So any progress towards a better use of SNAP benefits is going to have to deal with recipient resistance.

[Puzzledtraveller]

5. SNAP worker since 2009

Each state manages their own program even though the funding is a combination of federal and state money as far as program administration is concerned. For that reason some states do have initiatives that offer help in making healthy food purchases and tips on making your benefits go further. My state could do better in this category where our initiative is mostly informational. What I had suggested to our agency was televised programming in our waiting rooms that would have information, and instruction on health, purchasing and healthy food preparation. It was denied due to cost and the agency insisting that their efforts were adequate.

[Laelth]

56. I like your idea.

The only problem I see is that many nutritional experts have been proven to be wrong in the past. I suspect our dominant "healthy foods" paradigm is wrong now too (at least in some ways). As such, I might be reticent to spread bad information.



-Laelth

[etherealtruth]

7. I think it is very complicated

If I were to suddenly require the assistance of food stamps (we are all only one catastrophe away) ... I would have the cookware and accessories (stove top, oven, microwave, crock pots, steamers, food processors, freezers, cook books ... you name it) ... assuming I still could live where I live now I would have three or four full service grocery stores within a mile or so of my house ... I would have also had a lifetime of access (and therefore a taste) for good nutritious foods.

The ideas laid out are very good ... I do not dismiss them for a moment. I believe it would help some ... but, I don't know how poor in inner cities or living in rural areas ... or working two minimum wage jobs will do it. It is such a complicated problem with solutions that would be as complex as the problems ... but, again, good ideas that will help some ...

[yeoman6987]

9. I would love to hear from folks on Food Stamps

That would be the best of all. To actually hear from folks that are getting the food stamps could give us their opinions on how to make the program better for them. Unfortunately we have not heard from them yet. Maybe we will over the next few days. I would love to hear their ideas since they are the ones who have to live with them.

[etherealtruth]

10. My thoughts come from working with "the poor" (first career/ not current one)

I realize that doesn't allow me to know first hand.

DU can occasionally be very cruel to (judgmental) toward folk that are less fortunate than others ... I think there are some that are very hesitant to self identify ... your point is well taken, we need to listen to what those experiencing this say need.

[Tree-Hugger]

38. DU is cruel to the poor?

That is not something I have seen or experienced at all. In fact, when I first shared my story on DU, people showered me with support and encouragement. I got real financial help from DU members. I was pointed in the direction of Wishadoo, created by OneGrassRoot, where I received more help.

My fellow DUers encouraged me to get my story out there, so I did. I wrote my story (simply titled "Jenn's Words&quot for the blog Poor As Folk. It went viral. DU was the first place I came to say, "thank you for encouraging me," and I was once again given lots of positive feedback.

It's not just me - I have seen this level of support for many struggling folks here on DU.

Every forum will have bad apples, but the kindness and positivity I have seen in DU is nothing short of overwhelming and inspiring.

[etherealtruth]

59. As I said Du can occaisionally be cruel to the poor

i am very glad that you have received much encouragement here ... perhaps I did mis-speak ... DU can very cruel about people receiving assistance. Again I am VERY glad you did not read the threads that read like something out of Reagan's "welfare queen" playbook.

[cali]

15. I have been on food stamps for 2 and a half years. You're hearing from someone who

knows the program- and who has cooked professionally.

[yeoman6987]

22. Thank you!

Honestly I have conversed with you from time to time during the "almost" last 12 months and you have always been such a pleasure. Thank you for your contributions to DU and this thread.

[cali]

48. thank you and right back at you.

[adirondacker]

23. I was on them for 6 months while caretaking my mother a year and a half ago. There was an allotment

of $55.00/week. It helped, but was about half of what I typically spent for a week's worth of groceries and provisions for the two of us to eat "healthy". There was no lobster or steak in the cart, but I do indulge in a pound of "gourmet" coffee for the week at $8.99. I also was spending between $10-15.00 on Boost per week for my mother.

Proteins included chicken, tunafish, and any form of frozen fish that wasn't farm raised that was on sale, and yes, varieties of beans. Lettuce, fresh vegetables, and fruit were on the daily menu. Of course, PBJ. There were no frozen dinners or "prepared" food purchased. Sorry, but I refuse to eat the crap in a can and processed pig and pork in plastic. I'll leave it at "eating healthy isn't cheap", But it's cheaper than having to seek medical attention due to poor diet.

I would typically spend $20-30.00 of my own money at the farmers market for produce in season. I became friends with one of the farmers, and she would give me extras (leaf veggies) on occasion.

Which brings up one excellent program available in NY State;
http://www.snaptomarket.com/bringhome.php
http://www.snaptomarket.com/locations.php

Perhaps they could increase benefits for coop and farmers market shopping. It's not like the farmers are making a fortune, and the money stays in the local community.

[yeoman6987]

24. You bring up an interesting point

What about the farmers that are paid NOT to grow anything. What if the farmers that receive money to NOT grow, be allowed to grow vegetables for those who want to get them for free.....Yep for FREE! Honestly I just thought of this while reading your post because it occurred to me that farmers are paid to NOT garden. So why not help those that want to have veggies. It could also be for those super farmers who get all these farm subsidies. They should give away some veggies. We really could be doing a lot for folks in our country if only "we" as a collective could seriously run things......I would not want to run the country myself, but if we could do it by a group of people who talk things out and come to reasonable conclusions, our country would be incredible.

[cali]

49. sounds like you really know what you're doing when it comes to shopping for food!

[noamnety]

33. I was on WIC coupons for a few years.

I didn't need someone to explain nutrition to me or how to cook from scratch. Being poor didn't mean I was ignorant.

I didn't have time to go sit in class once a week to learn how to eat, didn't have a way to get there, and often wouldn't have had anyone to watch my kid if I went.

I would have liked a rebate program like savingstar that would give rebates on healthy items, that could go into another account that could be used for toilet paper and toothpaste. I also would have appreciated digital coupons that could be loaded straight to the card (I had coupons back then, but if it were a bridge card type thing). I'm thinking e-coupons for healthy items, like how cellfire lets me load coupons to my kroger card.

I also would have liked a produce truck that came to our area for us occasionally. Even in Ann Arbor, the stores didn't have manageable prices on produce and a lot of us didn't have reliable transportation to get to the town a half hour away that had a cheap store for that. So one person from our townhouses would plan a trip and go around to all the neighbors and collect their shopping lists and money and buy for everyone. It would have been a lot nicer if we could have put in orders online, and had some way to get it back to a pickup point for us, if we couldn't have the produce truck come around.

[Tree-Hugger]

39. I am on food stamps

I would love to see many more programs out there dedicated to helping those on SNAP learn to cook healthy meals, choose healthy foods, etc.

I don't believe in restricting foods on SNAP. While I would love to see a worldwide change in food choices and I know processed foods are the devil, I think starting to restrict foods is a slippery slope. However, access to healthy foods is a must and it is something that should be a priority. It's one thing to want to teach us how to pick healthy food and cook it. It's a whole different beast when you factor in access. In my area, I have a host of supermarkets - from Aldi to Whole Foods - and a bunch of farm markets, some of which accept SNAP. If I was to drive less than am hour away to some of the poorest neighborhoods in North Philly, the story would change dramatically. There, you are faced with corner grocers, the ones who don't get a large variety of foods and who charge high prices. When faced with a rumbling belly, low blood sugar, and $0.75 on the SNAP card, that person will choose the $0.75 cent Snickers bar over the $1.40 unripe orange in that store.

There's definitely a lot to be said for increasing awareness and educating people about healthy food choices and meal prep. It just isn't black and white.

I applaud anyone willing to help people improve their health and the planet's health via food.

One more thing - we also have a lot of work to do to change public perception of the poor. I can just imagine the self-righteous GOP outcry over poor people getting cooking classes and eating farm veggies. These people who think we're all dining out on steak and lobster when all we deserve is expired ramen are a disease on this planet.

[cali]

14. I live in a rural area and granted it's different here-

not just because it's Vermont but because it's... Hardwick which is now a world wide model for a sustainable food system:

Building a Healthy Food System in Rural America

How a handful of organic farmers, world-class cheesemakers and a locavore restaurant transformed Hardwick, Vermont—a poor, rural town—into a foodie mecca.

<snip>

http://www.eatingwell.com/food_news_origins/seasonal_local/building_a_healthy_food_system_in_rural_america

Hardwick, Vermont and the New Frontier of Food | How New England Can Save the World- Bill McKibben

http://www.yankeemagazine.com/article/features/agriculture

Dan Rather Reports:

A few weeks ago, The Boston Globe reminded us to think about Hardwick. Much has been made of the little town in Vermont's northern kingdom: Emeril Lagasse filmed the farm story, as did Dan Rather; and The New York Times, Eating Well, Gourmet, and The Boston Globe have all reported on The Town that Food Saved (also the title of local Ben Hewitt's book).

<snip>

http://www.examiner.com/article/positive-deviants-local-food-leaders-hardwick-vt

[etherealtruth]

17. Wonderful

I wish we could all be involved in something so trans formative ... It is a goal worth shooting for ... but in the interim, i want to make sure folk have a decent chance to meet their needs (I realize, you do too).

[LWolf]

12. I like this idea.

I think it should be run through local schools, and the effort to improve nutrition for the poor should start with:

Healthy, fresh, prepared-on-site food, breakfast and lunch, at every school. Perhaps dinners, as well, part of schools as community centers open for various purposes before and after school.

[etherealtruth]

13. I like this idea a lot

How can "we" expect a kid that is hungry to function well in school? How can we expect a kid that has parents that have to work two jobs or don't have access to high quality/ high nutrition food to learn about these foods and develop an appetite for them?

[LWolf]

16. Exactly.

Combining access to high quality, nutritious food at school instead of over-processed junk food, and classes to teach families how to shop for and prepare those foods themselves, would be a wonderful thing.

[noamnety]

18. This isn't practical.

Our school doesn't have a kitchen area, definitely nothing that could pass a health inspection. Our only water sources are the drinking fountains, bathroom sinks, and janitor closet sinks. Not every school is set up to handle that kind of thing. And our budget couldn't handle the janitorial staff, we wouldn't be able to hold evening performances in our cafeteria/gym/stage area.

Additionally there are safety issues nowadays in having after school latch key and letting random strangers from the community have access to the building at the same time.

I like the idea of community spaces, but schools can't function as all things to all people in the community, without it affecting their ability to handle their primary mission - educating kids.

[LWolf]

20. Sure it is.

Having worked in the public education system for 32 years now, I've seen the system quit cooking food and have pre-processed food in disposable containers shipped in. It took some time to make that widespread, and it would take some time to go back to cooking on site, but it can be done.

Of course school budgets can't handle staying open longer hours; funding for before and after school programs and services, and community services at a school site doesn't mean that the funding for those services comes out of the regular education budget.

This isn't a new idea; as a matter of fact, it's something the Obama administration has pushed, and there have been grants out there to help fund them. Predictably, though, they are grants that go away, and schools are expected to replace grant money by getting donations from local private enterprise. Lack of stable funding dooms any possibility of keeping these things going for more than a few years.

There are many positive, healthy ways to address the needs of the many in our communities. They don't happen because the nation isn't willing to invest in and support them. It's not a matter of what is practical. Investing in a healthy, functioning, well-educated, and well-employed population IS practical. It's just not valued in our political and economic culture. At least, not valued enough to make it a priority.

[noamnety]

29. It's practical at some locations, and not at others.

I ran a food service program at a school for a short time. I've made it through health inspections, and have a good understanding of the physical requirements.

What I'm saying is that not all school facilities are set up to do that. At our school for instance, we do not physically have a kitchen area, there is no place to put it.

[LWolf]

62. It's called remodeling.

It happens all the time. While it's not practical to assume that we can remodel every school in the nation without a working kitchen right away, it's certainly possible, and practical, to begin that process.

That was part of the privatization process; I saw it happening in the district I worked in under Reagan. Food service was contracted out to suppliers of pre-processed crap that met calorie requirements, and new schools were constructed with "kitchens" that were really just a bunch of counters for food.

What has been done can be done again. It just takes voters and politicians making it a priority.

[noamnety]

65. Remodeling to me implies rearranging an existing space.

Not building an entire annex onto a building.

To put this in perspective - we've got buildings in the detroit area that can't get electricity in entire floors of the building and I've personally heard the district facilities manager tell parents that he won't fix it if it's not a life or death emergency because all his funding is going toward those issues - dealing with gas leaks, etc. My school has areas where the ceiling leaks are so bad we've got teachers putting buckets in their rooms. I got called in one day during vacation to rescue what I could of my classroom because it was raining in there. Not a little stream in one part of the room - it was like a rainforest.

Maybe it's different in your area, but seriously in my neck of the woods, some of the schools can't get the funds for what some people would consider minimal maintenance needs. I'd rather see people seriously fight for that funding than take on new unfunded dream projects that will run in the millions. If we can't maintain the facilities we have, it's frustrating to hear people talk about how great it would be if we expanded them out.

That building without electricity on the top three floors - outsiders with good intentions donated computers to every classroom. The school can't use them because they can't plug them in. The computers will be obsolete before they can be used.

That's a somewhat common problem anytime outsiders try to push their own agenda on an existing community without listening to the community itself.

[LWolf]

67. We renovated several years back.

That renovation involved tearing an entire wing down and replacing it with a brand new wing in a different location.

It can be anything it needs to be to achieve the purpose.

In ANY area funding is hard to come by. That's a whole different issue. The number of things that should happen, that are possible, that don't happen because of funding are legion. Our bond for building 2 new schools and renovating the oldest was passed while the economy was flying high. We got a lot more out of that money when we actually used it because by then the economy had crashed and EVERYTHING was cheaper. Including construction projects.

We'd originally intended to "fix" our old wing; it's not the first time it would have been updated; it was 70 years old. There were so many problems, including leaks, though, that the cost to repair and get up to current codes was actually MORE than building the new wing. So we rearranged everything, including parking lots, athletic fields, and playground. We got a new kitchen out of it; it's large, and actually HAS appliances in it...that have never been used for cooking, because we're still shipping pre-made crap in.

[Shandris]

19. Who's nutrition information will we follow?

Nutrition is one of those things that changes almost daily, knowledge-wise, and even then its full of corporate purchases, junk science, interpretative science, pandering, and all other manner of often cross-purpose information. Trying to study 'nutrition' is like trying to study 'numbers' - the things you know will change constantly until eventually you just stop caring. Drink milk! No don't drink milk! Well, drink milk in moderation! No, don't do that because the calcium has acid in it! No wait, that acid gets neutralized but it makes the bones softer! No it doesn't! Yes it does! No it doesn't! Well eat Omega Flax, that'll take care of the problem! No no cheese is a better substitute, just watch out for eggs! No, eggs are fine! No, eggs have too much cholesterol! But it's the good kind! Wait there is no good kind! Well kind of there is! (I could keep going for about 30 pages, but I think you get the point).

And after all is said and done, what was the final outcome of both the milk and egg argument (at least, as of last month)? Eat and drink in moderation. Just like everything else. It's a well-meaning idea, but people aren't failing to make healthy meals simply because they don't understand nutrition. It's because nutrition is 1) highly variable to each person, 2) constantly changing, 3) frickin' expensive, and 4) requires more counseling than just nutrition counseling, particularly if weight is involved.

[LWolf]

21. I would follow a nutritional plan that included:

1. No sugar
2. Little pre-processed food
3. Lots of fresh vegetables and fruits
4. Lean protein
5. Whole grains, but less in proportion to #s 3 and 4
6. As much locally sourced foods as possible.

[Shandris]

26. Erm...there's a potential problem in the interaction of 1 and 3

Or did you mean refined/processed sugar? Because fruit is -loaded- with sugar, just not refined.

Also, the protein one can be problematic with a lot of people; for instance, people with cirrhosis need to avoid -most- (but not all) lean protein, but non-animal fatty proteins (read: peanut butter) are very good for them. Also Iron-deficient people need to make up for it oftentimes (but not always, it depends on the type/severity of the anemic state). I relate the anemic/cirrhotic one because I help someone who has both conditions at once, making trying to balance their nutrition a nightmare. As another matter of course, it should be pointed out that for people who have been overweight, fresh fruits and vegetables are about as filling as a Chinese takeout meal until you start hitting ginormous quantities. Finally, the locally-sourced part is political and has little to do with nutrition, even if its a political statement I agree with.

I agree with the overall sentiment to be certain, but so many of us people who are/could be on food stamps have lots of problems that a 'simple' nutritional plan won't accommodate for. Now, your plan is definitely better than the all-too-common "Lets grab McDonalds every day!" approach, but we would need to decide just how far we're willing to take the idea in regards to the people we want to help.

I guess I'm trying to say that while its a well-intentioned plan, it's one that isn't quite as simple as it seems and we need to be aware of that fact if we are going to -seriously- discuss an implementation. I'm definitely -not- saying we shouldn't consider it at all.

[LWolf]

64. Both.

I mean NO refined/processed sugars, with the only sugars coming in moderate amounts of fresh fruit and whole grains containing enough fiber to slow down the conversion process. As someone with insulin resistance who controls it through diet, I'm well aware of all sources of sugar, whether refined sugars we add to foods, or those that occur naturally or are converted through our digestive process. As a long-time public school employee, I'm also more than aware of the spike in obesity and obesity-related diseases at earlier and earlier ages.

Nuts and nut butters, in moderation, are fine...when they don't have a bunch of sugar added to them. Which is why I grind nut butter myself.

Having worked in public education with students from all backgrounds for 32 years, I've seen many, many health conditions which require special diet and treatment. This is why I'd prefer food services at school to offer some choice, rather than portion control over single items. And many do. The school I'm currently working at usually offers a choice of 3 different entrees, which are portion controlled, and then a choice bar with a variety of side dishes that are NOT portion controlled. Now if only we could get rid of the damned cardboard pizza, leather burgers, and mystery nuggets. Or the alternative yogurts loaded with sugar, the sugary cereals, etc..

In all those years, though, I've never met a student with cirrhosis; is the person you help a child? No matter what food delivery system we have in schools, there will always have to be accommodations for students with specific health conditions.

Locally sourced? Of course there are outside considerations that aren't about nutrition involved, but the more local the food is, the fresher it's likely to be, and that IS a nutritional factor if one of the goals is to get rid of pre-processed, over-processed junk.

NO plan is as "simple" as it may appear on the surface.

[Shandris]

68. Ahhh, okay, I see the direction you're going now.

Yah, so long as we can keep individual needs in mind, I'm definitely in favor of some guidance/assistance, and I figured that was what you meant about sugars but you never know for sure until it gets mentioned and all, ya know.

I like the idea about food choices at school; we had some small amount of choice back in my last couple years at school (read: we could choose a massive salad instead of the 'regular' lunch), but something like what you're describing would be so much more beneficial towards potentially helping to curb the obesity epidemic. I don't know if its still a problem or if your school ever had it, but mine used to sell sweets (and only sweets! snack cakes, nutty bars, basically the entire Little Debbie lineup) also. Those things are downright evil for the terrible things they can do to your body.

The cirrhotic person I help is an adult; I do some small amount of local in-the-neighborhood help to people as/when I can so I almost entirely interact with adults because school hours. I didn't mean to imply they were a child, if it came across like that. And finally, I do see the direction you're taking with locally sourced now (freshness).

It's the last sentence that is the important one, and was pretty much my whole point. Sometimes I get wordy and I'll be the first to admit that, because short and succinct gets misrepresented so incredibly often these days. But in discussion terms, I'm just trying to make sure someone doesn't try to get a 'simple' answer moving as a policy idea because people don't fit well into simple criterion, so when those two collide it's always the person that gets hurt, not the criterion. And it's usually the poorer person...which are the very people I live around.

As a completely not-quite-related side note, how DO they manage to keep those cardboard pizzas in schools year after year? Those things barely qualify as edible!

[LWolf]

69. The pizza?

Not even the kids want to eat it. I see more pizza thrown in the trash than any other school offering.

I'm currently teaching in a rural school that IS the center of the community, because there's no other place for the community to gather. That means that we automatically work in partnership with all kinds of other providers of services and activities. School is a one-stop place for so many things, and it can work like that in other areas, too. Who knows...with all the $$ saved not building and outfitting other places to serve and gather, maybe we could put some kitchens back, lol.

[cali]

50. I largely agree with your list

I don't think it's practical to say no sugar at all, but the the rest makes a ton of sense.

[LWolf]

63. You're probably correct about the sugar.

I just get so horrified at the amount of sugar kids are eating, and the rise in obesity and type II diabetes. I was insulin resistant my entire life, raised on "poor people's food." I wasn't obese, or just a little "overweight," they way so many of my students are today, though. That has come about with the flood of pre-processed and over-processed food, and the addition of sugar to everything, including foods that we don't think of as "sweet." To get that overload OUT of our diets, I'd like to see some heavily regulated restrictions on sugar.

I control my blood sugar and weight with diet; the older I get, the harder it has gotten. I have to heavily restrict calories and grains, and have NO sugar ever to maintain adequate health. I use stevia, which produces no sugar alcohol, when I want something sweet. It works.

[cali]

40. I hate to fall back on common sense, but....

using NON-PROCESSED food stuffs.

[Shandris]

44. Look, I know that has a nice ring to it, but...

...that doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to do with nutrition. Oh, it -can-, to be certain, but doesn't by necessity. It's a political statement.

And while politics is all well and good, when politics interferes with real life, politics loses. For a well-to-do person with Whole Foods and Trader Joes and whatever-the-heck-else shops people like to use for all their organic needs, I'm sure it's peachy keen. Joe, whose out painting the interior of a house for $8/hour in 110 degree temperature needs more for lunch than a tofu sandwich and tuna on crackers.

Eh. Tuna and crackers are both processed. Let me rephrase. He needs more from his lunch than the expectation of heading home, handmaking some bread from scratch, then using it to pack a condiment-free lunch with some...kale or whatever to eat tomorrow with an orange on the side. Neither does he need to plan on heading home, heating up the crock pot, and cooking a different whole meat every day so he can appease someone 3,000 miles away who thinks that its just -too unhealthy- for him to use Carl Buddig turkey instead of non-processed. I don't think you realize -just- what all 'processed' food -really- means.

Offer some information if people are interested. Offer them an incentive, even. But ultimately the choice is Joe's, or mine, or whoever else may be on the food stamps.

[cali]

45. you are packing angels on the head of a pin and trying to set them to tap dancing

again, common sense- like not using hamburger helper or similar items.

anyway, you're offtrack and sorry but it appears to me that you're more interested in argument for its own sake than a discussion.

[Shandris]

51. I...what?

Well, if that's what you think, I suppose that's your right. Nothing like making a snap judgement based off of one response, but I guess that's what's to be expected of DU these days.

"Common Sense". If it were so common, we wouldn't be having a thread to suggest teaching it to others. Ah, well. Have a good weekend.

[Fumesucker]

27. So many of the ideas in this thread presuppose someone has available transportation

As well as refrigerator and freezer in addition to cooking facilities, utensils, spices, a sink to clean up in and so on.

If you don't have transportation at your beck and call, and much of poor America doesn't, a simple trip to the store can become an all day affair. One of my neighbors can't get a license because of a history of seizures, we don't have any sort of public transportation at all and the closest grocery story is four and a half miles away one way. That's a nine mile round trip which is three hours of a fairly brisk walk (carrying groceries for half of it) but there are no sidewalks and not even decent shoulders on a lot of the roads.

If you don't have a kitchen to cook in and a way to store fresh food it just becomes a liability that's likely to go to waste. Those of us with access to these things tend to take them for granted "Oh, everyone has a kitchen". No they don't, someone I befriended was living in a motel room with a mini fridge that maybe got down to 60F and a worn out microwave. This person was on food stamps and the only transportation they had was a bicycle I gave them.

[cali]

41. Granted it's specifically tailored to my small town where we do have those things

including transportation.

and I am on food stamps (though this is my last month), but I think that it's more practical than you think.

[Fumesucker]

54. Everyone in your town has transportation?

I find that hard to believe, one of the first things to go after you fall out of the "middle class" is the money to buy, license, insure, operate and maintain a car. It's been since 2009 since I owned a car although I do have sometime access to a neighbor's car that I do the maintenance and repairs on in trade for occasional use of it.

I probably won't be able to renew my license next year thanks to vision problems and shopping is going to get much more difficult for me. As it is I use my bicycle quite a bit for shopping but next year it'll be completely on the bike. Trying to get to a class that would more than likely be considerably further away than my closest grocery store and at a specific time would be a major chore now and once I don't have a license would basically be impossible.

The person I mentioned living in the motel room had mandated classes that were twenty miles away one way, getting there on a every other week basis was a huge headache for them and they often ended up taking a taxi, something that would cost enough for several day's worth of food.

[cali]

55. the vast majority of people do, yes. It's rural. and there are always people

willing to do driving and there is subsidized transportation for those who can't drive. I didn't have a car/couldn't drive for some years. couldn't afford to repair it, couldn't drive due to disability, couldn't afford to register or insure my car.

This is a town of 3,500 people- neighboring villages make that about 5,000. Yes, it's an unusual place. I posted about it upthread with articles by Bill McKibben and Dan Rather Reports and others. This is a place where there is a big push toward people INCLUDING poor people eating well. It's literally known around the world. A friend of mine who was in Brazil recently said people there who she was working with knew of the "Town that food saved". But unique as it is, the basic sentiment and some of the structure exists throughout Vermont and in other places as well.

Believe it or not- all you have to do is read the links.

[Fumesucker]

57. It's been my experience that there's always ~someone~ who gets left out of such things

Maybe they get tired of continually asking for favors or maybe they just aren't popular and outgoing in the first place.

The people I know who don't or can't drive go through amazing gyrations in order to get rides, if all they could buy at the store was fresh foods they'd be working on getting rides to the store just about all the time. One thing about processed foods is that they keep for the most part, you can go shopping once a week or even every other week. Fresh produce would turn into slime in my fridge in two weeks, processed food is still there in my freezer and cupboard after two months or more. In fact I ate ramen and crackers for dinner last night because my pantry is looking a bit bare after a week and a half without a major shopping trip.

It's really not fair of you to hold your little and evidently highly unusual community up as some kind of standard that the entire country has because I can tell you that it's not remotely like much of America, where I live certainly isn't Lake Wobegon. I'm seeing more and more people walking on the shoulders of our roads (where we have even that, otherwise you are walking in the road).

[cali]

60. yes, there are people that get left out of things.

been there done that.

It's completely unfair of you to nitpick what could help people in my community and others. I didn't hold up Hardwick as a standard for the entire country. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't like your games. they strike me as counterproductive at best.

good luck to you and we are done conversing. I just don't have room for your kind of attitude in my life.

yes, ignore.

[dem in texas]

28. Don't be so judgmental about people on food stamps.

First of all, all the healthy food you talk about like fresh fruits and vegetables are the most expensive items in the store. People who don't have much money for food are going to try to get more bang for their buck. I have never been on food stamps, but I have been very poor and had to budget my grocery money very carefully. I used to buy lard because it was the cheapest fat. I fried a lot of fish and potatoes because that was cheap. Lots of macaroni dishes, also cheap and filling. I always bought the cheapest hamburger, you know that kind that has all fat, it was all I could afford and I had three kids to feed. The food stamp shopper must go to the store and buy on a budget. What's wrong with hamburger helper, if the meal must be stretched to feed 5 or 6 people? What's wrong with buying some cookies and ice cream. Don't' be so judgmental, trying to walk a while in their shoes and see how you look at food.

[cali]

46. Again, I'M ON FOODSTAMPS.

[csziggy]

30. Cooperative Extension Services already has all that information

Rather than start new programs or go to outside groups, food stamp programs could coordinate with Cooperative Extension offices to provide information and education to food stamp recipients.

They already have offices in every state and often in most counties in those states. They've been providing nutritional information, cook books, and other assistance since the 1930s when they were first established to help farm and rural families improve their nutrition.

I grew up in a small town, but Mom took us to the Extension Office to get information on foods and cooking - I still have a lot of the booklets and other literature I collected as a kid. We also got information on growing a garden, landscaping, sewing, and lots of other subjects.

Nearly everything from the Extension Offices is free, but it varies by state.

In fact, there is already a SANP-Ed program: http://www.nifa.usda.gov/nea/food/fsne/fsne.html

About SNAP-Ed

SNAP-Ed is a federal/state partnership that supports nutrition education for persons eligible for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP). State agencies that choose to conduct nutrition education through their Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, are eligible to be reimbursed for up to one half of their SNAP-Ed costs by the USDA Food and Nutrition Service (FNS). State and local funding comes primarily from land-grant institutions which contract with SNAP agencies to deliver SNAP-Ed. They reach intended audiences by coordinating with state and local partners and with other contractors. Other contractors are state public health departments, food banks, tribal programs and local health organizations.

The goal of SNAP-Ed through the Land-Grant University System is to provide educational programs and conduct social marketing campaigns that increase the likelihood that people eligible for SNAP will make healthy food choices within a limited budget and choose physically active lifestyles consistent with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and Food Guidance System (MyPyramid.gov).
http://www.nifa.usda.gov/nea/food/fsne/about.html

If local SNAP offices are not taking advantage of this already existing program, they need to be made aware and encouraged to do so!

[reformist2]

31. What you're suggesting could be informative PSAs, no need to target just the food stamp recipients.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. A lot of people, poor or not, have no idea how to cook a meal from scratch

I think that this skill, once universal, has not been passed down to later generations in many cases.

For example, you can make soup out of just about any combination of vegetables and protein.

[Beausoir]

34. Yeah, because people on food stamps have so much time to join cooking clubs.

What a load of elitist bullshit.


How about getting grocery stores IN the neighborhoods? With fresh fruits and veggies?

[cali]

42. I am on food stamps. and yes, I know a lot of people who could do this.

and I suggest you actually read the post in this thread about my town. elitist crap my food stamp using ass.

[pinto]

35. I think this is unrealistic in many areas, in real terms. When I was in social services,

here's what I would suggest. Shop the borders (wall sections) of the store first - that would be produce, protein, dairy and baked goods. Shop the sale items. Use those coupons. Think of a meal, meals as you go. Keep track of the $ total as you shop, even just a general estimate in your head. Fill in the $ balance and your take on a menu with canned staples, bulk items, household stuff. And, some treats.

It's how I have come to shop on a limited income and it works.

[cali]

47. Sure, it wouldn't work everywhere, but I think it would work where I live.

And just because you have the skills you mention, doesn't mean that everyone does.

[Cleita]

36. I wish they would give people meal vouchers at local diner type restaurants.

Many of the homeless don't have places to cook as do many in marginal housing like rooms without cooking facilities. Also, your idea would work in a small towns but not so much in crowded cities or sprawled out rural areas like mine. Also, without a house to meet and cook in, where would they meet?

[SoCalDem]

37. They should be more specific, and should exclude some things

like:

what is normally considered to be "junk":

chips, sodas, sparkling waters, candy,frozen dinners, etc.

they should also allow for necessary items like:

toilet paper (store brand/generic)..feminine hygiene, toothpaste, deodorant, soap,

Classes are a great idea, but most people probably do not have the time to spare.

There could be WIC (ish) coupons for free produce items like apples, oranges, or any fruit in season

When food stamps started out there were not nearly as many convenience foods available, and so much money is wasted on them now because they qualify.

There will always be the few here and there who have limited access for some reason or who have limited cooking facilities, but since they are the "micro", their difficulty should not the the thing that makes junk foods available to the "macro".

[cali]

43. btw, I'm not suggesting this be part of the SNAP program itself

but an adjunct, sponsored by (at least where I live) local organizations, individuals and businesses. Call it a pilot program if you wish. In my community there are businesses and organizations that I believe would support this:


http://www.highmowingseeds.com/


Welcome to The Center for an Agricultural Economy

Our mission is to engage the public in building a regenerative, locally based, healthy food system through collaboration opportunities, food access and hunger relief, educational outreach and providing infrastructure. We believe in working lands, working people, and local food.
http://www.hardwickagriculture.org/

We are a certified organic, four season, vegetable farm located on the edge of Vermont's Northeast Kingdom in Craftsbury, VT. We believe whole-heartedly that as more Vermonters eat locally, we will become healthier as communites and as individuals. Vermont Can Feed Itself!
http://www.petesgreens.com/

Our flagship program, Close the Loop! provides community-based solutions for food waste recycling. We work with farmers, municipalities, schools and businesses to create compost facilities and programs that lead to greater health and viability of our communities.
http://highfieldscomposting.org/what-we-do

MEANINGFUL WORK IN A PLACE THAT WE LOVE

Our mission is to make the highest possible quality products in a way that supports Vermont's working landscape. Efforts are made to recycle byproducts whenever possible to benefit other aspects of the farm and reduce waste.
http://www.jasperhillfarm.com/farm/

We think like you do and believe that it is the patron’s right to enjoy a real & honest meal out on the town. We also care about where our food comes from, and while sometimes (due to price, availability, or quality) we can’t select the ideals with every item we buy, we will continue to strive to source the best products, seasonally and regionally, whenever possible. It doesn’t stop at the food as we practice recycling and composting. Blackbear Biodiesel, in Plainfield, Vermont refines our used into a clean burning domestic fuel reducing our dependence on foreign oil. These are our attempts to make sure that what is taken out of the environment is put back in, so land and resources such as water, soil and air can be replenished and are available to future generations. We deeply thank you for you continued support.
http://www.positivepie.com/about.php

And there are more.

[My Good Babushka]

52. I think home ec. should be brought back for all students

all ages, all income levels. The well-off and the poor both get sick at unreasonable rates due to the piss poor eating habits of our nation. I don't think singling out the poor, again, is going to help. It just narrows their choices and makes them feel worse.

[cali]

53. so do I- an improved home ec- but this is not singling out the poor.

and how the heck does this narrow our choices? again I've been on food stamps since November of 2011. I am them and this would not make me feel worse if I could find it useful.

[My Good Babushka]

58. I was speaking more to the people who advocate

for narrowing food stamp choice to what they consider "healthy" foods. Even people on food stamps need to have cake and ice cream sometimes.

[cali]

61. agreed. I do not support the concept that people on food stamps shouldn't have

the freedom to purchase what they wish- even if those things are unhealthy. Poverty is tough enough without piling on more conditions and degradation.

[jwirr]

71. Another food stamp user here. My gut says I am too proud to need the help but that kind of info

could mean the difference between having enough to eat and not at the end of the month. I am not sure how it could work but when people go to NAPS and WIC they often get info letters with their food packages. Also even though many do not have a computer it would work if there was a newsletter that addressed these issues once a month with free access to the site.

[U4ikLefty]

72. I lived in my car for 3 months & steaming veggies was my last concern.

Nice idea though, for those on food stamps with a stable place to live, refrigeration, working utilities, and cooking supplies.

[cali]

73. that is particularly rough

I have a friend who this year was burning her kitchen cabinets for heat. these stories make me sad and angry. Hope things are much better now.

Most of the folks on food stamps where I live, do have access to the vital resources you reference. I'm particularly interested in making life a bit easier on mothers with kids between 0 and 18.

thanks